EPTBlizzard's thoughts on Swarm Hosts - Page 22
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TaShadan
Germany1960 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On May 07 2014 09:23 TT1 wrote: abduct vs collosus is already broken so they should implement that change Learn to micro templar and feedback then you'll never have to worry about it (not that hard and feedback good spell). If that abduct nerf goes through I don't see vipers being used much vs protoss anymore. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
It's reasonable if you reduce the initial mineral cost of a locust. It creates incentive not to spawn locust when not needed - rewarding those who manage, and also makes them more vulnerable to being caught out of position, which is much more interesting to watch, imo. Make them cost 150/200 and it's 25 spawns til you break even. Also opportunity cost as you can use the excess minerals sooner to gain a better advantage. As soon as you don't need the locusts, stop spawning them. Even making them 1 mineral per spawn would be OK. Just make there be SOME sort of cost to using them. | ||
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shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
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Random_0
United States1163 Posts
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen a single swarmhost vs. swarmhost game in ProLeague or Code S. I'm not sure if it's Korean pros avoiding the really boring strats (like Jaedong vs. Stephano). This suggests to me that swarmhost vs. swarmhost isn't a true problem yet, and that Blizzard should be patient to see if the players can work this out for themselves. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
And I think SH is bad even for matchups other than ZvZ, but well, it's a start :D | ||
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meenamjah
Canada51 Posts
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TAMinator
Australia2706 Posts
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Redfish
United States142 Posts
On May 07 2014 11:35 Random_0 wrote: I'm a bit concerned about Blizzard being overly influenced by only one game or a few games that just happened. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen a single swarmhost vs. swarmhost game in ProLeague or Code S. I'm not sure if it's Korean pros avoiding the really boring strats (like Jaedong vs. Stephano). This suggests to me that swarmhost vs. swarmhost isn't a true problem yet, and that Blizzard should be patient to see if the players can work this out for themselves. It's not just ZvZ, though. FireCake vs MaNa showed its ability to massively drag on ZvP as well. It just slows down any game it's a part of by such a huge amount because it's so polarizing - you need to do such a hard tech switch to deal with it and focus on that tech only otherwise you'll get run over. Give it an energy or mineral cost, I'd say - time the energy so it has 12-15 spawns until they need recovery time, or make it cost 2 minerals per locust. That might seem like a lot, but really, 25 swarm hosts spawning at once would only be 100 minerals - all you'd need to get is one zealot or something to break even. Free units are bad, free units with no cost on auto-spawn are absolutely horrible. | ||
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Ansinjunger
United States2451 Posts
On May 07 2014 09:15 PiGStarcraft wrote: Both suggestions are a bit off the mark, broods would still be weak to abduct if spores were nerfed, and muta harassment would be too strong. Making massive units immune to abduct removes the point of the spell. Just make broodlords immune to abduct. They screwed snipe that way--hopefully it doesn't happen to abduct, though I wouldn't mind a slight range nerf. Are we really hoping for broodlord vs broodlord to fix swarm host vs swarm host? P.S. revert the snipe nerf to non-massive. | ||
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nsfazimi
Malaysia8 Posts
Similar with unit high templer wth storm ability and infestor with fungal growth ability. More benefit to infestor because any enemy unit hit by fungal growth, they stop move and infestor keep fungal growth untill die. For high templer any enemy unit hit by storm, they can move. Suggestion for fungal growth at least let them enemy who hit by fungal growth have move 50% slower. -copy paste my word from blizzard forum - | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
Just redesign them to a regular GtG and possible GtA siege unit with 9-15range. | ||
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izmatic
United States104 Posts
not sure if this would work but what if they made abduct work on burrowed units? i dont think it would affect much but the swarmhost, (seems a waste to grab mines or roaches or the like) and seems to adress the issue a little more directly. | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
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BronzeKnee
United States5212 Posts
On May 07 2014 02:53 Myles wrote: I hate abduct as an ability, so I'd be fine with them making it not work on massive while buffing the other spells. Yeah, it is a really terrible ability with very little counter play. I'm perfectly okay with it not being able to pull in massive units. On May 07 2014 10:45 blade55555 wrote: Learn to micro templar and feedback then you'll never have to worry about it (not that hard and feedback good spell). If that abduct nerf goes through I don't see vipers being used much vs protoss anymore. Did you watch First versus Snute? If First can't do it reliably, then I definitely can't. It is too strong. At least implement some kind of counter play, like allow Stalkers to shoot down the tentacles that grip the Colossus. I grow weary of spells that prevent counter play. | ||
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9172 Posts
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Arceus
Vietnam8332 Posts
It doesnt make sense that Blizz tries to fix a poorly designed unit WITHOUT touching its poor design. It's even more nonsensical that they cites a few ZvZs as the issue lol | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5212 Posts
On May 07 2014 12:55 Arceus wrote: As most people have said, the sole purpose of viper is abduct collosus/tempest/occasionally tank, cloud is hardly used. Change like this will render it useless. So toward the end of HotS zerg got one mostly useless unit and one most hated unit lol What else does Zerg have to counter the Colossus and Tempest? The Corruptor. Therefore if the Viper does a better job than Corruptors... then it renders them useless. Either way Zerg ends up with a useless unit. | ||
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RaFox17
Finland4581 Posts
On May 07 2014 12:49 BronzeKnee wrote: Yeah, it is a really terrible ability with very little counter play. I'm perfectly okay with it not being able to pull in massive units. Did you watch First versus Snute? If First can't do it reliably, then I definitely can't. It is too strong. At least implement some kind of counter play, like allow Stalkers to shoot down the tentacles that grip the Colossus. I grow weary of spells that prevent counter play. I´m of the same opinion. Force fields and time stop should be removed. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5212 Posts
On May 07 2014 13:19 RaFox17 wrote: I´m of the same opinion. Force fields and time stop should be removed. Indeed, add Fungal to the list and we got a game. | ||
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