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Blizzard's thoughts on Swarm Hosts - Page 20

Forum Index > SC2 General
1050 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 18 19 20 21 22 53 Next
Scarx
Profile Joined June 2013
Germany49 Posts
May 06 2014 22:52 GMT
#381
I mid be the only one who actually enjoys Swarm Host vs. Swarm Host...
Josh_Video
Profile Joined August 2013
Canada798 Posts
May 06 2014 23:00 GMT
#382
On May 07 2014 07:52 Scarx wrote:
I mid be the only one who actually enjoys Swarm Host vs. Swarm Host...


I stand beside you, brother.
MKP :D ~ MMA ~ Scarlett ~ Taeja ~ Mvp ~ InnoVation ~ Polt | Prime ( RIP :( ) ~ Acer ~ SK Telecom T1 | I enjoyed the locust war of May 3, 2014.
Footler
Profile Joined January 2010
United States560 Posts
May 06 2014 23:02 GMT
#383
It sounds like they do want to remove/redesign the Swarm Host but possibly not until LotV. So why not make massive air units immune to abduct? I know Blizzard is not a fan of these kinds of changes but it might be the best band-aid fix until the LotV is out with the redesigned unit.
I am The-Sink! Parting bandwagoner before it became a soul train.
Josh_Video
Profile Joined August 2013
Canada798 Posts
May 06 2014 23:07 GMT
#384
On May 07 2014 08:02 Footler wrote:
It sounds like they do want to remove/redesign the Swarm Host but possibly not until LotV. So why not make massive air units immune to abduct? I know Blizzard is not a fan of these kinds of changes but it might be the best band-aid fix until the LotV is out with the redesigned unit.


Tempests, Carriers and Battlecruisers. Would make turtling with Protoss/Terran Air way better, since there is no way to attack into it or pull units out.
MKP :D ~ MMA ~ Scarlett ~ Taeja ~ Mvp ~ InnoVation ~ Polt | Prime ( RIP :( ) ~ Acer ~ SK Telecom T1 | I enjoyed the locust war of May 3, 2014.
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24193 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-06 23:17:53
May 06 2014 23:12 GMT
#385
I'm REALLY happy to see they're aware of the existence of a problem.

The first solution would be kind of acceptable. When David Kim says the effects on the other mus would be minor, if I'm not mistaken, there would be no effect at all ; which P or T unit is bio air ? If he's worried about imba phoenix + hydras strats in team play, let us reassure him : we don't care .

The second solution can't be acceptable. Colossi balls would become near impossible to deal with. Something like "air massive units become immune to abduct" sounds good especially because mothership would now become a legit counter to passive SH play a la Firecake, but that would make Tempests too good in the mu -and you can't really mess up with the Tempest massive attribute because of its bonus damage vs massive.

If I was in charge of the game, given how useless Tempests are (I don't know any interesting strat relying on Tempests, they're just an unneeded addition to the Protoss ball) I'd just get rid of Tempests and make massive air units immune to abduct. It's not like you can't fight BL infestor without tempest nowadays and you may actually see carriers more often. Realistically though, I dunno what they can do without being too lame ("zerg massive immune to abduct" ?).

On May 07 2014 02:58 Musicus wrote:
I think they should just release a patch: "Broodlords are immune to abduct". Give them a passive like the Ultralisk, that says exactly that and be done with it. I don't think anybody would complain.


That seems strange and lame, but the more I think about it the more I think yeah, no one would complain. Quick and easy, though not very elegant, way to solve the problem.
Xinzoe
Profile Joined January 2014
Korea (South)2373 Posts
May 06 2014 23:15 GMT
#386
On May 07 2014 08:12 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I'm REALLY happy to see they're aware of the existence of a problem.

The first solution would be kind of acceptable. When David Kim says the effects on the other mus would be minor, if I'm not mistaken, there would be no effect at all ; which P or T unit is bio air ? If he's worried about imba phoenix + hydras strats in team play, let us reassure him : we don't care .

The second solution can't be acceptable. Colossi balls would become near impossible to deal with. Something like "air massive units become immune to abduct" sounds good especially because mothership would now become a legit counter to passive SH play a la Firecake, but that would make Tempests too good in the mu -and you can't really mess up with the Tempest massive attribute because of its bonus damage vs massive.

If I was in charge of the game, given how useless Tempests are (I don't know any interesting strat relying on Tempests, they're just an unneeded addition to the Protoss ball) I'd just get rid of Tempests and make massive air units immune to abduct. It's not like you can't fight BL infestor without tempest nowadays and you may actually see carriers more often. Realistically though, I dunno what they can do without being too lame ("zerg massive immune to abduct" ?).


Tempests create some very fun 1 base PvT games :D
MisterWinter
Profile Joined March 2012
Switzerland5 Posts
May 06 2014 23:16 GMT
#387
What about having the locusts not benefit from the attack and armor upgrades? This would me more consistent with infestors, and will probably solve these ZvZ late game issues.
Rainmansc
Profile Joined August 2011
Netherlands216 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-06 23:17:08
May 06 2014 23:16 GMT
#388
So when are we finally getting a anti air units vs the retarded BC/Raven play style that has been becoming popular lately?
People will realise sooner or later that it is the new broodlord infestor.
Josh_Video
Profile Joined August 2013
Canada798 Posts
May 06 2014 23:18 GMT
#389
On May 07 2014 08:16 Rainmansc wrote:
So when are we finally getting a anti air units vs the retarded BC/Raven play style that has been becoming popular lately?
People will realise sooner or later that it is the new broodlord infestor.


No, the new Broodlord Infestor is Swarmhost SporeCrawler.
MKP :D ~ MMA ~ Scarlett ~ Taeja ~ Mvp ~ InnoVation ~ Polt | Prime ( RIP :( ) ~ Acer ~ SK Telecom T1 | I enjoyed the locust war of May 3, 2014.
NovemberstOrm
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Canada16217 Posts
May 06 2014 23:18 GMT
#390
On May 07 2014 08:16 MisterWinter wrote:
What about having the locusts not benefit from the attack and armor upgrades? This would me more consistent with infestors, and will probably solve these ZvZ late game issues.

I don't think it would fix ZvZ sh vs sh and would just make Swarm Hosts weaker in the other match-ups which is not what should be changed.
Moderatorlickypiddy
TMG26
Profile Joined July 2012
Portugal2017 Posts
May 06 2014 23:22 GMT
#391
Icefrog!
Supporter of the situational Blink Dagger on Storm.
B-rye88
Profile Joined October 2013
Canada168 Posts
May 06 2014 23:32 GMT
#392
Re-hash of my earlier post with an added idea.

- Give SH 80 energy
- Locusts cost 30 energy to spawn
- Locusts move faster and have a reasonable lifespan
- Change enduring locusts to another upgrade that prevents EMP/feedback from bringing a swarmhost below 30 energy.

Prevents ghosts/HT from negating 30 supply of units prior and then engaging while still allowing them to mitigate the damage they cause. Facilitates seige-break play, mobile defense, micro.
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
May 06 2014 23:34 GMT
#393
On May 07 2014 08:18 Josh_Video wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2014 08:16 Rainmansc wrote:
So when are we finally getting a anti air units vs the retarded BC/Raven play style that has been becoming popular lately?
People will realise sooner or later that it is the new broodlord infestor.


No, the new Broodlord Infestor is Swarmhost SporeCrawler.

I thought that new Broodlord Infestor were Widow Mines with Marauders against Protoss? :O
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
Josh_Video
Profile Joined August 2013
Canada798 Posts
May 06 2014 23:34 GMT
#394
On May 07 2014 08:32 B-rye88 wrote:
Re-hash of my earlier post with an added idea.

- Give SH 80 energy
- Locusts cost 30 energy to spawn
- Locusts move faster and have a reasonable lifespan
- Change enduring locusts to another upgrade that prevents EMP/feedback from bringing a swarmhost below 30 energy.

Prevents ghosts/HT from negating 30 supply of units prior and then engaging while still allowing them to mitigate the damage they cause. Facilitates seige-break play, mobile defense, micro.


That would nerf swarmhosts to the point of making them useless.
MKP :D ~ MMA ~ Scarlett ~ Taeja ~ Mvp ~ InnoVation ~ Polt | Prime ( RIP :( ) ~ Acer ~ SK Telecom T1 | I enjoyed the locust war of May 3, 2014.
Lobotomist
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1541 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-06 23:37:34
May 06 2014 23:35 GMT
#395
I'm not sure if they should go all the way on reverting the spore buff against muta (biological). Maybe nerf the +damage to bio by 50-75%.

Making abduct not work on massive sounds terrible. People really don't want to see an increase in turtle styles which that would promote.
Teching to hive too quickly isn't just a risk: it's an ultrarisk
B-rye88
Profile Joined October 2013
Canada168 Posts
May 06 2014 23:36 GMT
#396
On May 07 2014 08:34 Josh_Video wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2014 08:32 B-rye88 wrote:
Re-hash of my earlier post with an added idea.

- Give SH 80 energy
- Locusts cost 30 energy to spawn
- Locusts move faster and have a reasonable lifespan
- Change enduring locusts to another upgrade that prevents EMP/feedback from bringing a swarmhost below 30 energy.

Prevents ghosts/HT from negating 30 supply of units prior and then engaging while still allowing them to mitigate the damage they cause. Facilitates seige-break play, mobile defense, micro.


That would nerf swarmhosts to the point of making them useless.


Feel free to tinker with numbers / damage to the point of viability. The idea is the design, not the effectiveness.
Josh_Video
Profile Joined August 2013
Canada798 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-06 23:39:29
May 06 2014 23:39 GMT
#397
On May 07 2014 08:36 B-rye88 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2014 08:34 Josh_Video wrote:
On May 07 2014 08:32 B-rye88 wrote:
Re-hash of my earlier post with an added idea.

- Give SH 80 energy
- Locusts cost 30 energy to spawn
- Locusts move faster and have a reasonable lifespan
- Change enduring locusts to another upgrade that prevents EMP/feedback from bringing a swarmhost below 30 energy.

Prevents ghosts/HT from negating 30 supply of units prior and then engaging while still allowing them to mitigate the damage they cause. Facilitates seige-break play, mobile defense, micro.


That would nerf swarmhosts to the point of making them useless.


Feel free to tinker with numbers / damage to the point of viability. The idea is the design, not the effectiveness.


Maybe if they made them cost a less energy than 30, or maybe hold more than 80, because energy takes so long to replenish, especially if you are in the middle of a fight, then you just have 40 Swarmhosts without the ability to attack anything.
MKP :D ~ MMA ~ Scarlett ~ Taeja ~ Mvp ~ InnoVation ~ Polt | Prime ( RIP :( ) ~ Acer ~ SK Telecom T1 | I enjoyed the locust war of May 3, 2014.
pure.Wasted
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada4701 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-06 23:47:17
May 06 2014 23:46 GMT
#398
On May 07 2014 08:39 Josh_Video wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2014 08:36 B-rye88 wrote:
On May 07 2014 08:34 Josh_Video wrote:
On May 07 2014 08:32 B-rye88 wrote:
Re-hash of my earlier post with an added idea.

- Give SH 80 energy
- Locusts cost 30 energy to spawn
- Locusts move faster and have a reasonable lifespan
- Change enduring locusts to another upgrade that prevents EMP/feedback from bringing a swarmhost below 30 energy.

Prevents ghosts/HT from negating 30 supply of units prior and then engaging while still allowing them to mitigate the damage they cause. Facilitates seige-break play, mobile defense, micro.


That would nerf swarmhosts to the point of making them useless.


Feel free to tinker with numbers / damage to the point of viability. The idea is the design, not the effectiveness.


Maybe if they made them cost a less energy than 30, or maybe hold more than 80, because energy takes so long to replenish, especially if you are in the middle of a fight, then you just have 40 Swarmhosts without the ability to attack anything.


How is that different from the way SH is right now? If anything, this would be a huge buff because you'd be able to spawn locusts twice instantly at the beginning of an engagement, and one more time soon after, at which point the standard timer would kick in. You'd have three waves of locusts in the time it normally takes to have one.

But those are just numbers. I certainly like the idea of SH having more counters, in this case HTs and Ghosts. Though it doesn't solve ZvZ since Zerg doesn't have any real anti-casters.

But this is the sort of huge overhaul that Blizzard is not interested in right now. They're dumb for not being interested, and they're making a huge mistake, but it is what it is.
INna Maru-da-FanTa, Bbaby, TY Dream that I'm Flashing you
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24193 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-07 00:00:14
May 06 2014 23:58 GMT
#399
By the way, now David Kim is willing to find solutions to avoid stalemate ZvZ, with hindsight, couldn't we just admit the spore buff was a terrible bandaid fix and simply consider reverting it ? Mutas wars happened really often when the game reached midgame, but they rewarded the better player and weren't boring to watch. I really feel Z players hadn't been given enough time to figure out ways to punish fast spires or to transition out of muta play. Besides, I'm really convinced it'd be the lesser of those two evils because something like Stephano vs Petraeus shouldn't even have been imaginable.
Josh_Video
Profile Joined August 2013
Canada798 Posts
May 06 2014 23:59 GMT
#400
On May 07 2014 08:46 pure.Wasted wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2014 08:39 Josh_Video wrote:
On May 07 2014 08:36 B-rye88 wrote:
On May 07 2014 08:34 Josh_Video wrote:
On May 07 2014 08:32 B-rye88 wrote:
Re-hash of my earlier post with an added idea.

- Give SH 80 energy
- Locusts cost 30 energy to spawn
- Locusts move faster and have a reasonable lifespan
- Change enduring locusts to another upgrade that prevents EMP/feedback from bringing a swarmhost below 30 energy.

Prevents ghosts/HT from negating 30 supply of units prior and then engaging while still allowing them to mitigate the damage they cause. Facilitates seige-break play, mobile defense, micro.


That would nerf swarmhosts to the point of making them useless.


Feel free to tinker with numbers / damage to the point of viability. The idea is the design, not the effectiveness.


Maybe if they made them cost a less energy than 30, or maybe hold more than 80, because energy takes so long to replenish, especially if you are in the middle of a fight, then you just have 40 Swarmhosts without the ability to attack anything.


How is that different from the way SH is right now? If anything, this would be a huge buff because you'd be able to spawn locusts twice instantly at the beginning of an engagement, and one more time soon after, at which point the standard timer would kick in. You'd have three waves of locusts in the time it normally takes to have one.

But those are just numbers. I certainly like the idea of SH having more counters, in this case HTs and Ghosts. Though it doesn't solve ZvZ since Zerg doesn't have any real anti-casters.

But this is the sort of huge overhaul that Blizzard is not interested in right now. They're dumb for not being interested, and they're making a huge mistake, but it is what it is.


I hadn't even considered spawning 3 at once.
MKP :D ~ MMA ~ Scarlett ~ Taeja ~ Mvp ~ InnoVation ~ Polt | Prime ( RIP :( ) ~ Acer ~ SK Telecom T1 | I enjoyed the locust war of May 3, 2014.
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