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Blizzard's thoughts on Swarm Hosts - Page 19

Forum Index > SC2 General
1050 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 17 18 19 20 21 53 Next
shid0x
Profile Joined July 2012
Korea (South)5014 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-06 22:03:19
May 06 2014 22:02 GMT
#361
so according to blizz SH is a problem only in zvz.
i keked hard.

also the viper change are horrendous, binding cloud buff ? oh yeah lets fuck Terran even more.
RIP MKP
Xinzoe
Profile Joined January 2014
Korea (South)2373 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-06 22:06:06
May 06 2014 22:04 GMT
#362
I never understood why units like Swarm Host, Widow Mines and Oracle were introduced in the first place. They don't promote micro at all. It makes the game too relaxed and unenjoyable. Now whenever I play a PvZ on ladder that lasts over 1 hour, i just leave the game. I rather lose 44 ladder points than sit through an afk game of free locusts. -_-
Josh_Video
Profile Joined August 2013
Canada798 Posts
May 06 2014 22:05 GMT
#363
On May 07 2014 07:04 Xinzoe wrote:
I never understood why units like Swarm Host, Widow Mines and Oracle were introduced in the first place. They don't promote micro at all. It makes the game too relaxed and unenjoyable. -_-


Oracle doesn't promote micro? How do you figure that?
Widow mines kinda force micro too, if you think about it.
MKP :D ~ MMA ~ Scarlett ~ Taeja ~ Mvp ~ InnoVation ~ Polt | Prime ( RIP :( ) ~ Acer ~ SK Telecom T1 | I enjoyed the locust war of May 3, 2014.
DinoMight
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States3725 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-06 22:07:30
May 06 2014 22:05 GMT
#364
On May 07 2014 07:04 Xinzoe wrote:
I never understood why units like Swarm Host, Widow Mines and Oracle were introduced in the first place. They don't promote micro at all. It makes the game too relaxed and unenjoyable. -_-


Because not everything is about micro. Also the Oracle is a micro intensive unit, like the Reaper.
"Wtf I come back and find myself in camp DinoMight all of a sudden, feels weird man." -Wombat_NI
Drake
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany6146 Posts
May 06 2014 22:07 GMT
#365
On May 07 2014 02:35 myRZeth wrote:
yet again they ignore the real problem:

the swarmhost


jaeh its boring ... its just worse then the warhound they dont get it that its shit in every matchup .. it rly makes EVERY matchup boring zvt vs mech, zvp ALWAYS and zvz is HORROR
Nb.Drake / CoL_Drake / Original Joined TL.net Tuesday, 15th of March 2005
DinoMight
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States3725 Posts
May 06 2014 22:08 GMT
#366
Swarm Host vs. Swarm Host is pretty LOL to be honest. Makes for some epic 2v2s at least!
"Wtf I come back and find myself in camp DinoMight all of a sudden, feels weird man." -Wombat_NI
traderjoe
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Germany69 Posts
May 06 2014 22:08 GMT
#367
lol yeah "
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
May 06 2014 22:09 GMT
#368
On May 07 2014 06:39 Josh_Video wrote:
I feel like i'm in the mega minority who actually like super long drawn out swarmhost turtle games.
Reality vs Soulkey was great
So was MaNa vs Firecake
and Stephano vs Petraeus
Those game that Miniraser got kicked out of i51 for, i loved them.


Here's how it works.

In WoL games were too short, only 15-30 minutes long.
In HotS games are too long, 30-60 minutes long.

Somewhere between whiny and never is when the forum posters (of the internet in general) will ever be happy with anything the creators of their fandom does.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Xinzoe
Profile Joined January 2014
Korea (South)2373 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-06 22:11:54
May 06 2014 22:10 GMT
#369
On May 07 2014 07:05 DinoMight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2014 07:04 Xinzoe wrote:
I never understood why units like Swarm Host, Widow Mines and Oracle were introduced in the first place. They don't promote micro at all. It makes the game too relaxed and unenjoyable. -_-


Because not everything is about micro. Also the Oracle is a micro intensive unit, like the Reaper.


On May 07 2014 07:05 Josh_Video wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2014 07:04 Xinzoe wrote:
I never understood why units like Swarm Host, Widow Mines and Oracle were introduced in the first place. They don't promote micro at all. It makes the game too relaxed and unenjoyable. -_-


Oracle doesn't promote micro? How do you figure that?
Widow mines kinda force micro too, if you think about it.



sry guys i meant Mothership Core :D
I understand that its required to make PvP a less volatile matchup, but is there really no other way to solve it? You fix PvP but make PvT PvZ that much harder.
darkscream
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada2310 Posts
May 06 2014 22:12 GMT
#370
I dunno man, SH isnt a problem in non mirror, it has ways to be dealt with, optimal numbers/groups/positions on certain maps, im pretty sick of hearing plebians whine about locust waves being "free" when the top tier players are doing a lot of subtle but highly technical plays with them. The casters don't even notice or talk about it, instead they spew memes. I'm always very excited to see swarm host play in proleague. Weekend events and foreigner WCS not so much, i understand the trepidation towards swarmhosts if you're only watching b-tier players use them. That's why I just don't watch those events much at all, SH or otherwise

I hope to see more hydralisk buffs, whatever they are, whatever unit the power comes out of. Hydras and Mutas are really the iconic zerg units, but hydras still don't have the "wow" factor that Mutalisks have
AxiomBlurr
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
786 Posts
May 06 2014 22:13 GMT
#371
2 mineral per locust is reasonable.....
Squat
Profile Joined September 2013
Sweden7978 Posts
May 06 2014 22:15 GMT
#372
On May 07 2014 07:13 AxiomBlurr wrote:
2 mineral per locust is reasonable.....

No it's not.
"Digital. They have digital. What is digital?" - Donald J Trump
Josh_Video
Profile Joined August 2013
Canada798 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-06 22:26:58
May 06 2014 22:26 GMT
#373
On May 07 2014 07:13 AxiomBlurr wrote:
2 mineral per locust is reasonable.....


Not if they die every 25 seconds.
MKP :D ~ MMA ~ Scarlett ~ Taeja ~ Mvp ~ InnoVation ~ Polt | Prime ( RIP :( ) ~ Acer ~ SK Telecom T1 | I enjoyed the locust war of May 3, 2014.
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
May 06 2014 22:32 GMT
#374
On May 07 2014 07:13 AxiomBlurr wrote:
2 mineral per locust is reasonable.....


Interceptors don't die automatically, they hit and retreat.
Scarabs were 1 shot, but they were 9 range and dealt 100 splash damage. Scarabs also were supported by fast shuttles.

Scarabs deal less damage and are not permanent. So if you want it to be similar you'd either make it so Locus are permanent units that you can mass produce with the Swarm Host or they are units that deal between 50-100 damage an attack to compensate for their lack of AoE.

Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Kitaen
Profile Joined June 2011
Austria466 Posts
May 06 2014 22:35 GMT
#375
On May 07 2014 07:12 darkscream wrote:
I dunno man, SH isnt a problem in non mirror, it has ways to be dealt with, optimal numbers/groups/positions on certain maps...


nothing more to say here, SH are not a balance issure right now, the worst thing they do is produce long drawn out games that will occasionally happen. i can name 15 things that are worse in this game in a heartbeat though
PineapplePizza
Profile Joined June 2010
United States749 Posts
May 06 2014 22:37 GMT
#376
On May 07 2014 07:15 Squat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2014 07:13 AxiomBlurr wrote:
2 mineral per locust is reasonable.....

No it's not.


100 hp exploding locust for 5 minerals? :D
"There should be no tying a sharp, hard object to your cock like it has a mechanical arm and hitting it with the object or using your cockring to crack the egg. No cyborg penises allowed. 100% flesh only." - semioldguy
Kupon3ss
Profile Joined May 2008
時の回廊10066 Posts
May 06 2014 22:39 GMT
#377
2 minerals per locusts alongside reducing their cost by 10 or so is quite reasonable. Think of it this way, 1 set of spawns per 25 seconds is about 2.5 spawns per every minute. This means that you can fully sustain 20 locusts at 100 minerals/minute.

Which is honestly quite trivial by the time you actually have 20 locusts.

In normal usage it doesn't change anything, but add a certain feeling of inevitability to games that the current ZvZ problem doesn't have. In TvZ or PvZ even the most boring swarmhost situations involve one side slowly losing something wheras that's not the case in the ZvZ we speak. Even though the amount of actual minerals is minor, the fact that resources are being expended in the natural state of the game will push the disadvantaged player to make some move as to change their inevitable losing position as opposed to the "playing for a draw" mentality that had gotten the one player banned
When in doubt, just believe in yourself and press buttons
Kitaen
Profile Joined June 2011
Austria466 Posts
May 06 2014 22:41 GMT
#378
On May 07 2014 07:05 DinoMight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2014 07:04 Xinzoe wrote:
I never understood why units like Swarm Host, Widow Mines and Oracle were introduced in the first place. They don't promote micro at all. It makes the game too relaxed and unenjoyable. -_-


Because not everything is about micro. Also the Oracle is a micro intensive unit, like the Reaper.


you are not seriousely comparing a reaper to a skyferarri?

one can fly, is twice as fast, kills stuff faster than lil boy tommy frying ants with his lighter/spray combo and one is a scout which occasionally will get a worker kill done. when lucky.

Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
May 06 2014 22:45 GMT
#379
On May 07 2014 07:39 Kupon3ss wrote:
2 minerals per locusts alongside reducing their cost by 10 or so is quite reasonable. Think of it this way, 1 set of spawns per 25 seconds is about 2.5 spawns per every minute. This means that you can fully sustain 20 locusts at 100 minerals/minute.

Which is honestly quite trivial by the time you actually have 20 locusts.

In normal usage it doesn't change anything, but add a certain feeling of inevitability to games that the current ZvZ problem doesn't have. In TvZ or PvZ even the most boring swarmhost situations involve one side slowly losing something wheras that's not the case in the ZvZ we speak. Even though the amount of actual minerals is minor, the fact that resources are being expended in the natural state of the game will push the disadvantaged player to make some move as to change their inevitable losing position as opposed to the "playing for a draw" mentality that had gotten the one player banned


Because then we're going into the ammunition side of how we deal with units.

Like, would we then be able to make siege tanks deal 100 damage with full splash for 10 minerals a shot?

The Reaver Scarab and the Interceptor cost money because they (as unit attacks) were markedly different from normal attacks. Scarabs dealt SOOOO much damage at such long range while Interceptors were literally low cost flying units. In order to give a reason for adding such a drastic change to the way we handle attacks we need to compensate for the design change. Because this isn't just a nerf, this would be a complete design change in the way the unit is meant to be used. It stops being a zone control unit and becomes a deathball unit wherein you simply have them unborrowed and clumped with the rest of your army until right before the engagement where you sink in and send locus at their army.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
blacksheepwall
Profile Joined June 2011
China1530 Posts
May 06 2014 22:46 GMT
#380
While I still think that Abduct is one of the stupidest looking spells in the game, I don't really think the spell's effect should be changed. The skill-reward ratio of the spell seems about right to me.

Don't mind the reversion of the Spore buff though, miss playing Muta in ZvZ.

More importantly, however, the Swarm Host needs to be changed. Just make it a Lurker already.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ // </3 Taeja
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