On January 25 2014 13:09 Slasher wrote: Ting has now confirmed to me he will indeed be leaving Blizzard, as there as relocation requests for a majority of the SF team to move to Irvine.
Multiple anonymous sources close to the situation confirmed early this morning that a large portion of the Blizzard Entertainment employees operating out Blizzard's San Francisco office have been laid off. This includes many of the former IGN Pro League team that came on board in April of last year when the league's technology and assets were acquired by the developer. At the time of the acquisition GameSpot reported that a total of twenty-three employees had come over from IPL.
The most well known of those laid off include former General Manager and Senior Vice President, eSports at IGN Entertainment David Ting and Kevin Knocke, who had held multiple positions at IGN eSports over the course of his two year stint at IGN. Ting had been working as Head of Online Publishing for Blizzard while Knocke worked as Manager of Online Broadcasting.
NASL, hire Kevin Knocke! Always one of the most underrated casters IMO. Now that OGN is out of SC2 also I'd love to see NASL re-team KK and Doa. They had such great chemistry.
Had to see this coming. One cannot help but feel great sympathy for the employees who have not only lost their livelihood, but the medium through which they could show their passion for a game we all so dearly love. All the best for those employees. Hopefully they'll get picked up by other companies speedily.
Kevin will likely be bouncing between Hearthstone, Heroes of the Storm, and Starcraft. Not too surprising to be honest about the rest of the crew. Good luck to them!
I know I wasn't the only person excited about the prospect of certain developers being laid off the SC2 project... . Not that I want to see them lose their employment totally, just that I would like to see them on another project...
This bit looked like save IPL crew from the start.
the e-gymnastics needs much more fans to support a full crew for a non-tournament show - only thing blizzard could have seriously done to fully use the talent of those guys would have been a proper proleague/gsl style team league, but there isnt a cool esports hub with 6+ teams in any NA city yet - nor enough spectators - so its logical not to support a huge crew.
Still - esports in general is still growing so i guess for the best of them, there are still jobs - and perhaps even starcraft will stabilize and grow with the more well thought out WCS system, free arcade, starbow and who knows - perhaps one of the next balance patches in will hit the sweet spot to help increasing vanilla SC2 viewership to levels of supporting more content producers.
On January 25 2014 09:12 BigFan wrote: I think there are currently a lot of people working on starcraft projects so it makes sense albeit it is said that they were laid off
The center point of this is what direction Blizzard will take regarding media production other than WCS casts which is now handled by NASL in America, tbh the former IPL crew didn't put out enough content other than casting some Challenger league matches and some highlights, which makes sense that they are laid off
Well considering we never saw any content from them besides kevin knocke voiceovers this isn't too unexpected. Sucks for the people losing their jobs ofc.
Well according to the updates nobody has been laid off? Or atleast Kevin Knocke still has a job? Everyone you seemed to comment on this thread either commented before the OP updates or didn't bother to read the whole post? I'd be interested to hear if there were any other updates.
On January 25 2014 09:17 Derez wrote: Well considering we never saw any content from them besides kevin knocke voiceovers this isn't too unexpected. Sucks for the people losing their jobs ofc.
Didn't they at one point do some sort of "and this week in sc2" type of news deal? I could have sworn that they did.
On January 25 2014 09:17 Derez wrote: Well considering we never saw any content from them besides kevin knocke voiceovers this isn't too unexpected. Sucks for the people losing their jobs ofc.
Didn't they at one point do some sort of "and this week in sc2" type of news deal? I could have sworn that they did.
Yeah and they did highlight reels too, but they didn't get very many views on YouTube
On January 25 2014 09:17 Derez wrote: Well considering we never saw any content from them besides kevin knocke voiceovers this isn't too unexpected. Sucks for the people losing their jobs ofc.
Didn't they at one point do some sort of "and this week in sc2" type of news deal? I could have sworn that they did.
Yeah and they did highlight reels too, but they didn't get very many views on YouTube
On January 25 2014 09:17 Derez wrote: Well considering we never saw any content from them besides kevin knocke voiceovers this isn't too unexpected. Sucks for the people losing their jobs ofc.
Didn't they at one point do some sort of "and this week in sc2" type of news deal? I could have sworn that they did.
Yeah and they did highlight reels too, but they didn't get very many views on YouTube
The Top 5 plays series are kinda good, but it feels lacking regarding hype because it is presented in a weird way, they use actual replays instead of live footage with commentary (understandable when you consider copyright issues though) which diminishes the sense of great plays. And other than that the SF team didn't produce enough to justify their existence imo.
Dear god someone needs to change this thread title... no lay-offs, just relocation and a few folks deciding to leave rather than move. The title makes it sound alarming when its not really even that significant of a change. Whether people realize it (read: are willing to admit it) or not, this fear mongering (yes, including some of the sarcasm) actually turns folks off. You guys should know better by now.
This is pretty much standard in the game industry. Every company goes through this. A little story...
Sony used to have the same video game go through development at two different offices on opposite sides of the country. Which ever development team could produce a sellable game the quickest got to keep their job. And Sony would fire the entire second development team. Then if you wanted to stay with sony you would have to reapply and hope someone lets the hiring staff know you were a good worked even though you got laid off.
On January 25 2014 13:18 looknohands119 wrote: Dear god someone needs to change this thread title... no lay-offs, just relocation and a few folks deciding to leave rather than move. The title makes it sound alarming when its not really even that significant of a change. Whether people realize it (read: are willing to admit it) or not, this fear mongering (yes, including some of the sarcasm) actually turns folks off. You guys should know better by now.
Edit: You're killin' me Smalls!
That's how I read it as well.
It was a relocation request and people decided to resign.
edit: eh, then the article goes on with updates saying more people laid off. Who knows.
On January 25 2014 13:09 Slasher wrote: Ting has now confirmed to me he will indeed be leaving Blizzard, as there as relocation requests for a majority of the SF team to move to Irvine.
On January 25 2014 07:57 Yakikorosu wrote: NASL, hire Kevin Knocke! Always one of the most underrated casters IMO. Now that OGN is out of SC2 also I'd love to see NASL re-team KK and Doa. They had such great chemistry.
There are no "underrated" casters at this point of Star Craft. Each of these well known casters has got exactly the popularity he deserves.
I was initially excited to see that Blizzard might be shaking things up because I feel they're on the wrong course. Sadly, it seems the wrong Blizzard employees are losing their job.
On January 25 2014 14:01 BronzeKnee wrote: I was initially excited to see that Blizzard might be shaking things up because I feel they're on the wrong course. Sadly, it seems the wrong Blizzard employees are losing their job.
Wait, Blizzard employees are losing their jobs? Link please.
On January 25 2014 07:57 Yakikorosu wrote: NASL, hire Kevin Knocke! Always one of the most underrated casters IMO. Now that OGN is out of SC2 also I'd love to see NASL re-team KK and Doa. They had such great chemistry.
There are no "underrated" casters at this point of Star Craft. Each of these well known casters has got exactly the popularity he deserves.
Uh you're certainly entitled to disagree with my view that KK is underrated, but disputing the very possibility of casters being underrated is an odd idea. Sports that have been around for a hundred years have underrated broadcasters, but Starcraft 2, because of its lengthy almost-4-year-old lifespan, cannot?
Anyway I am glad to hear that KK still works for Blizzard, though I wish they'd use him to cast more and not just do voiceovers for their SC2-related commercials.
On January 25 2014 14:01 BronzeKnee wrote: I was initially excited to see that Blizzard might be shaking things up because I feel they're on the wrong course. Sadly, it seems the wrong Blizzard employees are losing their job.
Wait, Blizzard employees are losing their jobs? Link please.
Multiple anonymous sources close to the situation confirmed early this morning that a large portion of the Blizzard Entertainment employees operating out Blizzard's San Francisco office have been laid off.
well gl to all those that have been laid off from Blizzard's SF location. hopefully they can seek out work soon... David Ting has an article on Forbes about him talking about LoL, not going to be too surprising if Riot hires him.
Apparently there are no "layoffs" but some employees are being relocated.
A Blizzard Representative told IGN this:
"Actually, what’s happening is we’ve had separate teams doing similar functions in our San Francisco and Irvine offices. So we’ve identified opportunities to consolidate the teams where it made sense and we have about 10-15 people in San Francisco we’d like to relocate to Irvine. The rest of the employees will remain in our San Francisco office. As a result of these changes, regrettably, David Ting has decided to embark on a new opportunity. He will remain with Blizzard for a number of months to oversee the transition while consulting on various projects."
On January 25 2014 14:01 BronzeKnee wrote: I was initially excited to see that Blizzard might be shaking things up because I feel they're on the wrong course. Sadly, it seems the wrong Blizzard employees are losing their job.
Wait, Blizzard employees are losing their jobs? Link please.
Multiple anonymous sources close to the situation confirmed early this morning that a large portion of the Blizzard Entertainment employees operating out Blizzard's San Francisco office have been laid off.
Why you gotta troll me?
Don't blame me. Tell IGN and OnGamers to get better sources.
On January 25 2014 13:42 digmouse wrote: The correct title should now be "David Ting leaves Blizzard, SF office relocate to Irvine"
renamed
I wonder how many people read the David in the title and hoped it was David Kim lol...If only the thread was named "Blizzard SF office to relocate to Irvine, David Ting leaves", would have led to a lot of sidebar trolling.
On January 25 2014 13:42 digmouse wrote: The correct title should now be "David Ting leaves Blizzard, SF office relocate to Irvine"
renamed
I wonder how many people read the David in the title and hoped it was David Kim lol...If only the thread was named "Blizzard SF office to relocate to Irvine, David Ting leaves", would have led to a lot of sidebar trolling.
the David part doesn't quite fit on the sidebar for me
Blizzard has now provided onGamers their own statement:
"Actually, what’s happening is we’ve had separate teams doing similar functions in our San Francisco and Irvine offices. So we’ve identified opportunities to consolidate the teams where it made sense and we have about 10-15 people in San Francisco we’d like to relocate to Irvine. The rest of the employees will remain in our San Francisco office. As a result of these changes, regrettably, David Ting has decided to embark on a new opportunity. He will remain with Blizzard for a number of months to oversee the transition while consulting on various projects."
On January 25 2014 14:53 Slasher wrote: Blizzard has now provided onGamers their own statement:
"Actually, what’s happening is we’ve had separate teams doing similar functions in our San Francisco and Irvine offices. So we’ve identified opportunities to consolidate the teams where it made sense and we have about 10-15 people in San Francisco we’d like to relocate to Irvine. The rest of the employees will remain in our San Francisco office. As a result of these changes, regrettably, David Ting has decided to embark on a new opportunity. He will remain with Blizzard for a number of months to oversee the transition while consulting on various projects."
On January 25 2014 09:12 BigFan wrote: I think there are currently a lot of people working on starcraft projects so it makes sense albeit it is said that they were laid off
The center point of this is what direction Blizzard will take regarding media production other than WCS casts which is now handled by NASL in America, tbh the former IPL crew didn't put out enough content other than casting some Challenger league matches and some highlights, which makes sense that they are laid off
ya, that was my point. There is WCS going on and they have the crew for that so it's only natural they would make cuts if the crew isn't doing much work. Still sad for them though :/
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
Because not alot of people enjoy losing their job and having an uncertain financial situation for their family? "What's wrong with wanting someone to get fired" Really listen to yourselves some times, unless the person is an immoral criminal this is over the line.
I doubt Blizzard or another company or site would dare, but it would be pretty amusing if this April 1st, someone either used the headline "Blizzard fires community" or if Blizzard used "David Kim let go" followed by the body of the text saying "Just joking", ^_^
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
i'm happy with the $100 i've spent so far on SC2. Promote David Kim and Dustin Browder i say!
On January 25 2014 17:25 NeThZOR wrote: So if someone had to read the comments stating how eagerly people want them fired, that still isn't personal? I would feel offended tbh.
If you're not ready to be offended on the internet, you might not want to go on the internet.
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
Translation: what's wrong with wanting someone unable to pay their bills and losing the health insurance?
When you say you want someone fired over balance in a video game, it makes you look heartless and entitled.
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
plz keep in note i have also read the other comments about losing a job ( yeah it suck but some time you are not the person qualified for the job so you should not have it anymore )
and i will say it here : THEY FIRED THE WRONG DAVID
and that my right to say it, he make me waste year of my life,i have enter this bullshit progamer world and wasted my time because this game was stupid enough for never fix terran.... he can find one other job or anything he not qualified for the job he got.
and im fealing they are nothing wrong with saying what the first poster say.
i was about to reinstall sc2 if they did fired the other guy....that how im fealing about his balancing....
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
Translation: what's wrong with wanting someone unable to pay their bills and losing the health insurance?
When you say you want someone fired over balance in a video game, it makes you look heartless and entitled.
I support SC2 with my hard earned money because Browder et al have earned it with their competence and hard work. I trade my effort for the product of the effort of others.
i trashed C&C:Generals2, hard.
Victory Games was shut down because the game was crap and the developers didn't know what they were doing. the few really good employees at VG are already employed elsewhere ( including 1 guy now at Blizz)...because the uber talented in a 1st world country always have a job some where for them.
the loafers and morons ... well... they'll be relying on the social safety net like all the other morons and loafers.
welcome to the free market system, guy. communism died in 1989.
the minute Blizzard starts to suck like EA is the minute i stop giving them my money. if that means some guys who work their get fired and can't pay their bills and lose their health insurance, well too bad for them. so far Blizz has earned every nickel i've ever spent on them.
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
plz keep in note i have also read the other comments about losing a job ( yeah it suck but some time you are not the person qualified for the job so you should not have it anymore )
and i will say it here : THEY FIRED THE WRONG DAVID
and that my right to say it, he make me waste year of my life,i have enter this bullshit progamer world and wasted my time because this game was stupid enough for never fix terran.... he can find one other job or anything he not qualified for the job he got.
and im fealing they are nothing wrong with saying what the first poster say.
i was about to reinstall sc2 if they did fired the other guy....that how im fealing about his balancing....
So... Can't we just apply the same logic to you losing your progamer job then? Since you can also "find one other job or anything" since you are "not qualified for the job (you wanted)"? It was your choice to enter the progaming world and everybody in the entire industry knows how volatile and cutthroat the scene can be.
And if you really think that someone else can do a better job at balancing, look at all the other RTS' on the market, nearly all of them aside from blizzard's are defunct after just a few years due to severe lack of balance and support. What makes you think that firing David Kim would solve? Who would you hire in his place? Because I can not think of any singular people in the industry that could do a better job than what Blizzard is doing right now, even though I'm also equally frustrated by the perceived imbalance.
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
plz keep in note i have also read the other comments about losing a job ( yeah it suck but some time you are not the person qualified for the job so you should not have it anymore )
and i will say it here : THEY FIRED THE WRONG DAVID
and that my right to say it, he make me waste year of my life,i have enter this bullshit progamer world and wasted my time because this game was stupid enough for never fix terran.... he can find one other job or anything he not qualified for the job he got.
and im fealing they are nothing wrong with saying what the first poster say.
i was about to reinstall sc2 if they did fired the other guy....that how im fealing about his balancing....
What did I just read? Its all Blizzard's fault that he couldn't make it as a pro-gamer?
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
You can be unhappy about the product and still not act like a cunt about it. TL should just temp ban for that kind of posts, if your contribution is like that, it's unlikely that it's any better elsewhere.
So many easy David Kim jokes. Sure, I hate on him every now and then too, but he is also responsible for the game everybody over here loves to death, and while we might often forget it, the only reason you've been here as long as you have, is because he did a pretty marvelous job (I highly disagree with his current thoughts, but that's no reason for shameless hate)!
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
plz keep in note i have also read the other comments about losing a job ( yeah it suck but some time you are not the person qualified for the job so you should not have it anymore )
and i will say it here : THEY FIRED THE WRONG DAVID
and that my right to say it, he make me waste year of my life,i have enter this bullshit progamer world and wasted my time because this game was stupid enough for never fix terran.... he can find one other job or anything he not qualified for the job he got.
and im fealing they are nothing wrong with saying what the first poster say.
i was about to reinstall sc2 if they did fired the other guy....that how im fealing about his balancing....
So... Can't we just apply the same logic to you losing your progamer job then? Since you can also "find one other job or anything" since you are "not qualified for the job (you wanted)"? It was your choice to enter the progaming world and everybody in the entire industry knows how volatile and cutthroat the scene can be.
And if you really think that someone else can do a better job at balancing, look at all the other RTS' on the market, nearly all of them aside from blizzard's are defunct after just a few years due to severe lack of balance and support. What makes you think that firing David Kim would solve? Who would you hire in his place? Because I can not think of any singular people in the industry that could do a better job than what Blizzard is doing right now, even though I'm also equally frustrated by the perceived imbalance.
Same logic for me? Will argues that switching race to zerg back then would have made me qualified... That was more because of the terrible balance who made the most foreigne stop this game but yeah I'm not playing anymore... Him? He still here and I'm pretty sure he can't not just switch races...
The other points are invalid... Currently they are really not many real time RTS don't mean we should accept shit and bad balance and david kim the man behind the balance of this game... he the one who say, okay today we remove the reaper from the game because they are OP ( while not looking how the top pro started to counter them realy good ) or TODAY we nerf that and that... today we BUFF queen for enter the zerg era... he changed many pro gamer life.
will also add something most people dont know about david kim, he FUCKING DONT care about pro gamer view on balance, SLAYERS BOXER, NADA, many korean, MANY top foreigner have try to talk to him about balance, most of the time he did not even reply to them and if he did he KNOW better that the pro gamer about the balance....
for balance ?? hire any pro gamer who are listed above....for exemple think of slayers-boxer balancing sc2?? nada??
for balance im alway thinking it should be a pro gamer, david kim ( unlike what they are trying to make the general public think... he NOT A PRO GAMER OR A TOP PLAYERS..... )
you see balance realy good trust me if you play something for 10-20 year all day, everyday... most pro would balance this game realy good and often pro ( who cant talk btw ) think he balance like shit....
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
plz keep in note i have also read the other comments about losing a job ( yeah it suck but some time you are not the person qualified for the job so you should not have it anymore )
and i will say it here : THEY FIRED THE WRONG DAVID
and that my right to say it, he make me waste year of my life,i have enter this bullshit progamer world and wasted my time because this game was stupid enough for never fix terran.... he can find one other job or anything he not qualified for the job he got.
and im fealing they are nothing wrong with saying what the first poster say.
i was about to reinstall sc2 if they did fired the other guy....that how im fealing about his balancing....
Wow I am amazed how you can put the responsability of your behavior "i have enter this bullshit progamer world" on someone else "he make me waste year of my life". That is the definition of not owning your behavior! Exactly like a guy who beats his wife saying "She pushed me into beating her because she knows I can't stand 2 milk in my coffee... it's not MY fault, SHE pushed me into beating her!!!" NO, no she is not the reason. Your lack of control and coping skills are the reason why you beat her.
Please take some time to reflect on this... I understand your frustrations but YOU are the owner of YOUR behaviors.
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
plz keep in note i have also read the other comments about losing a job ( yeah it suck but some time you are not the person qualified for the job so you should not have it anymore )
and i will say it here : THEY FIRED THE WRONG DAVID
and that my right to say it, he make me waste year of my life,i have enter this bullshit progamer world and wasted my time because this game was stupid enough for never fix terran.... he can find one other job or anything he not qualified for the job he got.
and im fealing they are nothing wrong with saying what the first poster say.
i was about to reinstall sc2 if they did fired the other guy....that how im fealing about his balancing....
Wow I am amazed how you can put the responsability of your behavior "i have enter this bullshit progamer world" on someone else "he make me waste year of my life". That is the definition of not owning your behavior! Exactly like a guy who beats his wife saying "She pushed me into beating her because she knows I can't stand 2 milk in my coffee... it's not MY fault, SHE pushed me into beating her!!!" NO, no she is not the reason. Your lack of control and coping skills are the reason why you beat her.
Please take some time to reflect on this... I understand your frustrations but YOU are the owner of YOUR behaviors.
yeah sorry this was not mature of me to say that, he not the reason, he part of the reason and the main reason was my lack of skill, plz dont derails the topic more.
that was about people listed losing their job and it suck, should have not start the david kim talk. sorry
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
plz keep in note i have also read the other comments about losing a job ( yeah it suck but some time you are not the person qualified for the job so you should not have it anymore )
and i will say it here : THEY FIRED THE WRONG DAVID
and that my right to say it, he make me waste year of my life,i have enter this bullshit progamer world and wasted my time because this game was stupid enough for never fix terran.... he can find one other job or anything he not qualified for the job he got.
and im fealing they are nothing wrong with saying what the first poster say.
i was about to reinstall sc2 if they did fired the other guy....that how im fealing about his balancing....
So... Can't we just apply the same logic to you losing your progamer job then? Since you can also "find one other job or anything" since you are "not qualified for the job (you wanted)"? It was your choice to enter the progaming world and everybody in the entire industry knows how volatile and cutthroat the scene can be.
And if you really think that someone else can do a better job at balancing, look at all the other RTS' on the market, nearly all of them aside from blizzard's are defunct after just a few years due to severe lack of balance and support. What makes you think that firing David Kim would solve? Who would you hire in his place? Because I can not think of any singular people in the industry that could do a better job than what Blizzard is doing right now, even though I'm also equally frustrated by the perceived imbalance.
Same logic for me? Will argues that switching race to zerg back then would have made me qualified... That was more because of the terrible balance who made the most foreigne stop this game but yeah I'm not playing anymore... Him? He still here and I'm pretty sure he can't not just switch races...
The other points are invalid... Currently they are really not many real time RTS don't mean we should accept shit and bad balance and david kim the man behind the balance of this game... he the one who say, okay today we remove the reaper from the game because they are OP ( while not looking how the top pro started to counter them realy good ) or TODAY we nerf that and that... today we BUFF queen for enter the zerg era... he changed many pro gamer life.
will also add something most people dont know about david kim, he FUCKING DONT care about pro gamer view on balance, SLAYERS BOXER, NADA, many korean, MANY top foreigner have try to talk to him about balance, most of the time he did not even reply to them and if he did he KNOW better that the pro gamer about the balance....
for balance ?? hire any pro gamer who are listed above....for exemple think of slayers-boxer balancing sc2?? nada??
for balance im alway thinking it should be a pro gamer, david kim ( unlike what they are trying to make the general public think... he NOT A PRO GAMER OR A TOP PLAYERS..... )
you see balance realy good trust me if you play something for 10-20 year all day, everyday... most pro would balance this game realy good and often pro ( who cant talk btw ) think he balance like shit....
no pro-gamer would want david kim's job
will also add something most people dont know about david kim, he FUCKING DONT care about pro gamer view on balance, SLAYERS BOXER, NADA, many korean, MANY top foreigner have try to talk to him about balance, most of the time he did not even reply to them and if he did he KNOW better that the pro gamer about the balance....
you get this information from where? Pro-gamers are VERY biased, you have to decide what to take seriously or not, also why do act like you know what David Kim thinks....
i dont think you should a have pro gamers at all balancing the game. They understand the game they have been given not the complexity of the games development process but i can see the argument for this. You may get ex pros being bias and or compromised with past teams or personel but these are just my thoughts
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
plz keep in note i have also read the other comments about losing a job ( yeah it suck but some time you are not the person qualified for the job so you should not have it anymore )
and i will say it here : THEY FIRED THE WRONG DAVID
and that my right to say it, he make me waste year of my life,i have enter this bullshit progamer world and wasted my time because this game was stupid enough for never fix terran.... he can find one other job or anything he not qualified for the job he got.
and im fealing they are nothing wrong with saying what the first poster say.
i was about to reinstall sc2 if they did fired the other guy....that how im fealing about his balancing....
What did I just read? Its all Blizzard's fault that he couldn't make it as a pro-gamer?
seems that way. But posts like this are nothing new, the amount lately though makes me think about giving up on TL too or atleast on some regions of the Sc2 section.
On January 25 2014 22:20 NovemberstOrm wrote: no pro-gamer would want david kim's job
you get this information from where? Pro-gamers are VERY biased, you have to decide what to take seriously or not, also why do act like you know what David Kim thinks....
both of this is just bullshit. First of all I think a lot of progamers would love to transcend their progaming carreer into a game development/game design/game balance position and Blizzard is one of the best companies in the business.
and second progamers are biased when they are competing, or when they have just lost a game. Progamers however are also most of the time intelligent individuals, who can handle and regulate their emotions about the game they compete in, and put that in the right context. This is active progamers. Inactive progamers its almost not even an issue and obviously a progamer would have to retire to take a job like this lol.
p.s : I don't think david kim should be fired. As advocated in my blog post a while ago, I just wish the communication lines between the competing community and the people deciding about the game would be opened up and made transparent & visible. There's no outlet to post thoughts or have meaningfull discussion. I've sent emails to david kim and hes always been kind and responded but it's never actually lead anywhere. Blizz forums? You make a post and then it's forgotten. Same for TL.
On January 25 2014 22:20 NovemberstOrm wrote: no pro-gamer would want david kim's job
you get this information from where? Pro-gamers are VERY biased, you have to decide what to take seriously or not, also why do act like you know what David Kim thinks....
both of this is just bullshit. First of all I think a lot of progamers would love to transcend their progaming carreer into a game development/game design/game balance position and Blizzard is one of the best companies in the business.
Yeah but would you actually want his job? not just being part of the balance team, he gets a ton of negative comments(not like pro-gamers don't) but it's on a larger scale to some degree due to being the front of the balance team, I guess pro-gamers might be more pre-pared for that type of feedback though :D
On January 25 2014 22:20 NovemberstOrm wrote: no pro-gamer would want david kim's job
you get this information from where? Pro-gamers are VERY biased, you have to decide what to take seriously or not, also why do act like you know what David Kim thinks....
both of this is just bullshit. First of all I think a lot of progamers would love to transcend their progaming carreer into a game development/game design/game balance position and Blizzard is one of the best companies in the business.
Yeah but would you actually want his job? not just being part of the balance team, he gets a ton of negative comments(not like pro-gamers don't) but it's on a larger scale to some degree due to being the front of the balance team, I guess pro-gamers might be more pre-pared for that type of feedback though :D
A baker will get a lot of negative comments if he makes bad bread.
On January 25 2014 22:20 NovemberstOrm wrote: no pro-gamer would want david kim's job
you get this information from where? Pro-gamers are VERY biased, you have to decide what to take seriously or not, also why do act like you know what David Kim thinks....
both of this is just bullshit. First of all I think a lot of progamers would love to transcend their progaming carreer into a game development/game design/game balance position and Blizzard is one of the best companies in the business.
Yeah but would you actually want his job? not just being part of the balance team, he gets a ton of negative comments(not like pro-gamers don't) but it's on a larger scale to some degree due to being the front of the balance team, I guess pro-gamers might be more pre-pared for that type of feedback though :D
A baker will get a lot of negative comments if he makes bad bread.
Maybe it's because I don't play other Blizzard properties besides Starcraft, but it didn't seem like they were doing anything with the IPL employees. What kind of differences are we really going to notice if they are let go?
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
plz keep in note i have also read the other comments about losing a job ( yeah it suck but some time you are not the person qualified for the job so you should not have it anymore )
and i will say it here : THEY FIRED THE WRONG DAVID
and that my right to say it, he make me waste year of my life,i have enter this bullshit progamer world and wasted my time because this game was stupid enough for never fix terran.... he can find one other job or anything he not qualified for the job he got.
and im fealing they are nothing wrong with saying what the first poster say.
i was about to reinstall sc2 if they did fired the other guy....that how im fealing about his balancing....
User was warned for this post
You chose to dedicate your life to an "imbalanced" game and have the audacity to blame that wasted year on the game's balance tester?
Good god you must be one immature, whiny, stupid fuck.
On January 25 2014 22:20 NovemberstOrm wrote: no pro-gamer would want david kim's job
you get this information from where? Pro-gamers are VERY biased, you have to decide what to take seriously or not, also why do act like you know what David Kim thinks....
both of this is just bullshit. First of all I think a lot of progamers would love to transcend their progaming carreer into a game development/game design/game balance position and Blizzard is one of the best companies in the business.
Yeah but would you actually want his job? not just being part of the balance team, he gets a ton of negative comments(not like pro-gamers don't) but it's on a larger scale to some degree due to being the front of the balance team, I guess pro-gamers might be more pre-pared for that type of feedback though :D
i couldnt imagine any progamer turning down a job at Blizzard as a balance designer or whatever else.
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
plz keep in note i have also read the other comments about losing a job ( yeah it suck but some time you are not the person qualified for the job so you should not have it anymore )
and i will say it here : THEY FIRED THE WRONG DAVID
and that my right to say it, he make me waste year of my life,i have enter this bullshit progamer world and wasted my time because this game was stupid enough for never fix terran.... he can find one other job or anything he not qualified for the job he got.
and im fealing they are nothing wrong with saying what the first poster say.
i was about to reinstall sc2 if they did fired the other guy....that how im fealing about his balancing....
So... Can't we just apply the same logic to you losing your progamer job then? Since you can also "find one other job or anything" since you are "not qualified for the job (you wanted)"? It was your choice to enter the progaming world and everybody in the entire industry knows how volatile and cutthroat the scene can be.
And if you really think that someone else can do a better job at balancing, look at all the other RTS' on the market, nearly all of them aside from blizzard's are defunct after just a few years due to severe lack of balance and support. What makes you think that firing David Kim would solve? Who would you hire in his place? Because I can not think of any singular people in the industry that could do a better job than what Blizzard is doing right now, even though I'm also equally frustrated by the perceived imbalance.
Same logic for me? Will argues that switching race to zerg back then would have made me qualified... That was more because of the terrible balance who made the most foreigne stop this game but yeah I'm not playing anymore... Him? He still here and I'm pretty sure he can't not just switch races...
The other points are invalid... Currently they are really not many real time RTS don't mean we should accept shit and bad balance and david kim the man behind the balance of this game... he the one who say, okay today we remove the reaper from the game because they are OP ( while not looking how the top pro started to counter them realy good ) or TODAY we nerf that and that... today we BUFF queen for enter the zerg era... he changed many pro gamer life.
will also add something most people dont know about david kim, he FUCKING DONT care about pro gamer view on balance, SLAYERS BOXER, NADA, many korean, MANY top foreigner have try to talk to him about balance, most of the time he did not even reply to them and if he did he KNOW better that the pro gamer about the balance....
for balance ?? hire any pro gamer who are listed above....for exemple think of slayers-boxer balancing sc2?? nada??
for balance im alway thinking it should be a pro gamer, david kim ( unlike what they are trying to make the general public think... he NOT A PRO GAMER OR A TOP PLAYERS..... )
you see balance realy good trust me if you play something for 10-20 year all day, everyday... most pro would balance this game realy good and often pro ( who cant talk btw ) think he balance like shit....
will also add something most people dont know about david kim, he FUCKING DONT care about pro gamer view on balance, SLAYERS BOXER, NADA, many korean, MANY top foreigner have try to talk to him about balance, most of the time he did not even reply to them and if he did he KNOW better that the pro gamer about the balance....
you get this information from where? Pro-gamers are VERY biased, you have to decide what to take seriously or not, also why do act like you know what David Kim thinks....
Oov said in an interview when he joined SKT1 as a coach again that boxer tried to contact david kim multiple times and never got a supply. If slayers'boxer wants to talk to you and you deny, you should seek help.
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
plz keep in note i have also read the other comments about losing a job ( yeah it suck but some time you are not the person qualified for the job so you should not have it anymore )
and i will say it here : THEY FIRED THE WRONG DAVID
and that my right to say it, he make me waste year of my life,i have enter this bullshit progamer world and wasted my time because this game was stupid enough for never fix terran.... he can find one other job or anything he not qualified for the job he got.
and im fealing they are nothing wrong with saying what the first poster say.
i was about to reinstall sc2 if they did fired the other guy....that how im fealing about his balancing....
So... Can't we just apply the same logic to you losing your progamer job then? Since you can also "find one other job or anything" since you are "not qualified for the job (you wanted)"? It was your choice to enter the progaming world and everybody in the entire industry knows how volatile and cutthroat the scene can be.
And if you really think that someone else can do a better job at balancing, look at all the other RTS' on the market, nearly all of them aside from blizzard's are defunct after just a few years due to severe lack of balance and support. What makes you think that firing David Kim would solve? Who would you hire in his place? Because I can not think of any singular people in the industry that could do a better job than what Blizzard is doing right now, even though I'm also equally frustrated by the perceived imbalance.
Same logic for me? Will argues that switching race to zerg back then would have made me qualified... That was more because of the terrible balance who made the most foreigne stop this game but yeah I'm not playing anymore... Him? He still here and I'm pretty sure he can't not just switch races...
The other points are invalid... Currently they are really not many real time RTS don't mean we should accept shit and bad balance and david kim the man behind the balance of this game... he the one who say, okay today we remove the reaper from the game because they are OP ( while not looking how the top pro started to counter them realy good ) or TODAY we nerf that and that... today we BUFF queen for enter the zerg era... he changed many pro gamer life.
will also add something most people dont know about david kim, he FUCKING DONT care about pro gamer view on balance, SLAYERS BOXER, NADA, many korean, MANY top foreigner have try to talk to him about balance, most of the time he did not even reply to them and if he did he KNOW better that the pro gamer about the balance....
for balance ?? hire any pro gamer who are listed above....for exemple think of slayers-boxer balancing sc2?? nada??
for balance im alway thinking it should be a pro gamer, david kim ( unlike what they are trying to make the general public think... he NOT A PRO GAMER OR A TOP PLAYERS..... )
you see balance realy good trust me if you play something for 10-20 year all day, everyday... most pro would balance this game realy good and often pro ( who cant talk btw ) think he balance like shit....
no pro-gamer would want david kim's job
will also add something most people dont know about david kim, he FUCKING DONT care about pro gamer view on balance, SLAYERS BOXER, NADA, many korean, MANY top foreigner have try to talk to him about balance, most of the time he did not even reply to them and if he did he KNOW better that the pro gamer about the balance....
you get this information from where? Pro-gamers are VERY biased, you have to decide what to take seriously or not, also why do act like you know what David Kim thinks....
Oov said in an interview when he joined SKT1 as a coach again that boxer tried to contact david kim multiple times and never got a supply. If slayers'boxer wants to talk to you and you deny, you should seek help.
well 2 things come to mind, before u consider therapy
1. that info is real bogus, if u can give an actual quote, not just " i think i read, someone said he talked to someone who wrote to DK". Afaik progamers are consulted, maybe their opinions arent taken into consideration very much, but they can be heard. 2. Assuming it s what really happened, imagine the danger in it. Boxer says in an interview or w/e, that he told David Kim XYZ is wrong with the game. Now what a community backclash could that unleash....
Dont get me wrong, i would love if (former) pros would balance the game rather then a bunch of data-analysts and 1-2 guys who actually have a grasp of how to play, but it has a lot of dangers. Imo the best solution would be to hire reputable players who retired/thinking of retiring, and consult current top level players. Rather then obey the wishes of the pros or to ignore them alltogether.
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
plz keep in note i have also read the other comments about losing a job ( yeah it suck but some time you are not the person qualified for the job so you should not have it anymore )
and i will say it here : THEY FIRED THE WRONG DAVID
and that my right to say it, he make me waste year of my life,i have enter this bullshit progamer world and wasted my time because this game was stupid enough for never fix terran.... he can find one other job or anything he not qualified for the job he got.
and im fealing they are nothing wrong with saying what the first poster say.
i was about to reinstall sc2 if they did fired the other guy....that how im fealing about his balancing....
So... Can't we just apply the same logic to you losing your progamer job then? Since you can also "find one other job or anything" since you are "not qualified for the job (you wanted)"? It was your choice to enter the progaming world and everybody in the entire industry knows how volatile and cutthroat the scene can be.
And if you really think that someone else can do a better job at balancing, look at all the other RTS' on the market, nearly all of them aside from blizzard's are defunct after just a few years due to severe lack of balance and support. What makes you think that firing David Kim would solve? Who would you hire in his place? Because I can not think of any singular people in the industry that could do a better job than what Blizzard is doing right now, even though I'm also equally frustrated by the perceived imbalance.
Same logic for me? Will argues that switching race to zerg back then would have made me qualified... That was more because of the terrible balance who made the most foreigne stop this game but yeah I'm not playing anymore... Him? He still here and I'm pretty sure he can't not just switch races...
The other points are invalid... Currently they are really not many real time RTS don't mean we should accept shit and bad balance and david kim the man behind the balance of this game... he the one who say, okay today we remove the reaper from the game because they are OP ( while not looking how the top pro started to counter them realy good ) or TODAY we nerf that and that... today we BUFF queen for enter the zerg era... he changed many pro gamer life.
will also add something most people dont know about david kim, he FUCKING DONT care about pro gamer view on balance, SLAYERS BOXER, NADA, many korean, MANY top foreigner have try to talk to him about balance, most of the time he did not even reply to them and if he did he KNOW better that the pro gamer about the balance....
for balance ?? hire any pro gamer who are listed above....for exemple think of slayers-boxer balancing sc2?? nada??
for balance im alway thinking it should be a pro gamer, david kim ( unlike what they are trying to make the general public think... he NOT A PRO GAMER OR A TOP PLAYERS..... )
you see balance realy good trust me if you play something for 10-20 year all day, everyday... most pro would balance this game realy good and often pro ( who cant talk btw ) think he balance like shit....
no pro-gamer would want david kim's job
will also add something most people dont know about david kim, he FUCKING DONT care about pro gamer view on balance, SLAYERS BOXER, NADA, many korean, MANY top foreigner have try to talk to him about balance, most of the time he did not even reply to them and if he did he KNOW better that the pro gamer about the balance....
you get this information from where? Pro-gamers are VERY biased, you have to decide what to take seriously or not, also why do act like you know what David Kim thinks....
Oov said in an interview when he joined SKT1 as a coach again that boxer tried to contact david kim multiple times and never got a supply. If slayers'boxer wants to talk to you and you deny, you should seek help.
well 2 things come to mind, before u consider therapy
1. that info is real bogus, if u can give an actual quote, not just " i think i read, someone said he talked to someone who wrote to DK". Afaik progamers are consulted, maybe their opinions arent taken into consideration very much, but they can be heard. 2. Assuming it s what really happened, imagine the danger in it. Boxer says in an interview or w/e, that he told David Kim XYZ is wrong with the game. Now what a community backclash could that unleash....
Dont get me wrong, i would love if (former) pros would balance the game rather then a bunch of data-analysts and 1-2 guys who actually have a grasp of how to play, but it has a lot of dangers. Imo the best solution would be to hire reputable players who retired/thinking of retiring, and consult current top level players. Rather then obey the wishes of the pros or to ignore them alltogether.
"In SC1, even builds had a history. It was on a course of innovation. If you look at PvZ, there was 2 Gate, 1 Gate, and they even came up with forge double nexus. Protosses were so bent on being safe from early lings until came the Bisu build. If you keep balancing a game saying that it's too hard without even going through these cycles then your game ends up being a never ending beta test. I even heard that Boxer had emailed David Kim about this. Judging from his skepticism, I don't think David Kim ever replied.
And David Kim is not biased? I'm sure one race is his strongest and one is his weakest. Besides I highly doubt dk plays on anything close to pro level and given how hard he stomps other blizzard employees in any video we ever see them play in, I doubt anyone at blizz is playing this game at a decent level. Ofc you shouldn't listen to 1 pro gamer, but I'd much rather see 20ish pros from all 3 races balance this game then the people at blizzard who are currently doing it.
On January 26 2014 03:38 WolfintheSheep wrote: So basically three pages of false news, and straight into three pages of completely unrelated whining. Great thread guys.
On January 26 2014 03:38 WolfintheSheep wrote: So basically three pages of false news, and straight into three pages of completely unrelated whining. Great thread guys.
On January 26 2014 03:38 WolfintheSheep wrote: So basically three pages of false news, and straight into three pages of completely unrelated whining. Great thread guys.
You make me feel guilty
Awww, it's not your fault. The ongamers article was just pretty poor, full of faulty and vague information. This is newsworthy though, I think, sadly we lack a better source and a lot of information at this point.
On January 26 2014 03:38 WolfintheSheep wrote: So basically three pages of false news, and straight into three pages of completely unrelated whining. Great thread guys.
You make me feel guilty
I'd be all for remaking this whole thing just to clear the built-up baggage.
On January 25 2014 22:20 NovemberstOrm wrote: no pro-gamer would want david kim's job
you get this information from where? Pro-gamers are VERY biased, you have to decide what to take seriously or not, also why do act like you know what David Kim thinks....
both of this is just bullshit. First of all I think a lot of progamers would love to transcend their progaming carreer into a game development/game design/game balance position and Blizzard is one of the best companies in the business.
Yeah but would you actually want his job? not just being part of the balance team, he gets a ton of negative comments(not like pro-gamers don't) but it's on a larger scale to some degree due to being the front of the balance team, I guess pro-gamers might be more pre-pared for that type of feedback though :D
A baker will get a lot of negative comments if he makes bad bread.
People like to rag on david kim, but I highly doubt most pro gamers could do his job because balancing the game is probably a very small part of his job. At least that's what I assume as there's no way he can just do balance for the bulk of his work day. He holds a pretty senior position so probably has a ton of other work and responsibility outside of just balancing the game.
On January 26 2014 12:05 Canucklehead wrote: People like to rag on david kim, but I highly doubt most pro gamers could do his job because balancing the game is probably a very small part of his job. At least that's what I assume as there's no way he can just do balance for the bulk of his work day. He holds a pretty senior position so probably has a ton of other work and responsibility outside of just balancing the game.
On January 26 2014 12:05 Canucklehead wrote: People like to rag on david kim, but I highly doubt most pro gamers could do his job because balancing the game is probably a very small part of his job. At least that's what I assume as there's no way he can just do balance for the bulk of his work day. He holds a pretty senior position so probably has a ton of other work and responsibility outside of just balancing the game.
So go hire someone that is fully committed.
Not worth the money to have one person just to balance a game and nothing else.
On January 26 2014 12:05 Canucklehead wrote: People like to rag on david kim, but I highly doubt most pro gamers could do his job because balancing the game is probably a very small part of his job. At least that's what I assume as there's no way he can just do balance for the bulk of his work day. He holds a pretty senior position so probably has a ton of other work and responsibility outside of just balancing the game.
So go hire someone that is fully committed.
Not worth the money to have one person just to balance a game and nothing else.
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
plz keep in note i have also read the other comments about losing a job ( yeah it suck but some time you are not the person qualified for the job so you should not have it anymore )
and i will say it here : THEY FIRED THE WRONG DAVID
and that my right to say it, he make me waste year of my life,i have enter this bullshit progamer world and wasted my time because this game was stupid enough for never fix terran.... he can find one other job or anything he not qualified for the job he got.
and im fealing they are nothing wrong with saying what the first poster say.
i was about to reinstall sc2 if they did fired the other guy....that how im fealing about his balancing....
So... Can't we just apply the same logic to you losing your progamer job then? Since you can also "find one other job or anything" since you are "not qualified for the job (you wanted)"? It was your choice to enter the progaming world and everybody in the entire industry knows how volatile and cutthroat the scene can be.
And if you really think that someone else can do a better job at balancing, look at all the other RTS' on the market, nearly all of them aside from blizzard's are defunct after just a few years due to severe lack of balance and support. What makes you think that firing David Kim would solve? Who would you hire in his place? Because I can not think of any singular people in the industry that could do a better job than what Blizzard is doing right now, even though I'm also equally frustrated by the perceived imbalance.
Same logic for me? Will argues that switching race to zerg back then would have made me qualified... That was more because of the terrible balance who made the most foreigne stop this game but yeah I'm not playing anymore... Him? He still here and I'm pretty sure he can't not just switch races...
The other points are invalid... Currently they are really not many real time RTS don't mean we should accept shit and bad balance and david kim the man behind the balance of this game... he the one who say, okay today we remove the reaper from the game because they are OP ( while not looking how the top pro started to counter them realy good ) or TODAY we nerf that and that... today we BUFF queen for enter the zerg era... he changed many pro gamer life.
will also add something most people dont know about david kim, he FUCKING DONT care about pro gamer view on balance, SLAYERS BOXER, NADA, many korean, MANY top foreigner have try to talk to him about balance, most of the time he did not even reply to them and if he did he KNOW better that the pro gamer about the balance....
for balance ?? hire any pro gamer who are listed above....for exemple think of slayers-boxer balancing sc2?? nada??
for balance im alway thinking it should be a pro gamer, david kim ( unlike what they are trying to make the general public think... he NOT A PRO GAMER OR A TOP PLAYERS..... )
you see balance realy good trust me if you play something for 10-20 year all day, everyday... most pro would balance this game realy good and often pro ( who cant talk btw ) think he balance like shit....
no pro-gamer would want david kim's job
will also add something most people dont know about david kim, he FUCKING DONT care about pro gamer view on balance, SLAYERS BOXER, NADA, many korean, MANY top foreigner have try to talk to him about balance, most of the time he did not even reply to them and if he did he KNOW better that the pro gamer about the balance....
you get this information from where? Pro-gamers are VERY biased, you have to decide what to take seriously or not, also why do act like you know what David Kim thinks....
Oov said in an interview when he joined SKT1 as a coach again that boxer tried to contact david kim multiple times and never got a supply. If slayers'boxer wants to talk to you and you deny, you should seek help.
well 2 things come to mind, before u consider therapy
1. that info is real bogus, if u can give an actual quote, not just " i think i read, someone said he talked to someone who wrote to DK". Afaik progamers are consulted, maybe their opinions arent taken into consideration very much, but they can be heard. 2. Assuming it s what really happened, imagine the danger in it. Boxer says in an interview or w/e, that he told David Kim XYZ is wrong with the game. Now what a community backclash could that unleash....
Dont get me wrong, i would love if (former) pros would balance the game rather then a bunch of data-analysts and 1-2 guys who actually have a grasp of how to play, but it has a lot of dangers. Imo the best solution would be to hire reputable players who retired/thinking of retiring, and consult current top level players. Rather then obey the wishes of the pros or to ignore them alltogether.
"In SC1, even builds had a history. It was on a course of innovation. If you look at PvZ, there was 2 Gate, 1 Gate, and they even came up with forge double nexus. Protosses were so bent on being safe from early lings until came the Bisu build. If you keep balancing a game saying that it's too hard without even going through these cycles then your game ends up being a never ending beta test. I even heard that Boxer had emailed David Kim about this. Judging from his skepticism, I don't think David Kim ever replied.
And David Kim is not biased? I'm sure one race is his strongest and one is his weakest. Besides I highly doubt dk plays on anything close to pro level and given how hard he stomps other blizzard employees in any video we ever see them play in, I doubt anyone at blizz is playing this game at a decent level. Ofc you shouldn't listen to 1 pro gamer, but I'd much rather see 20ish pros from all 3 races balance this game then the people at blizzard who are currently doing it.
I forgot where he mentioned it, but David Kim once said that since his worst race was terran he would think that terran was fine when in reality they were a bit too strong.
On January 26 2014 12:05 Canucklehead wrote: People like to rag on david kim, but I highly doubt most pro gamers could do his job because balancing the game is probably a very small part of his job. At least that's what I assume as there's no way he can just do balance for the bulk of his work day. He holds a pretty senior position so probably has a ton of other work and responsibility outside of just balancing the game.
So go hire someone that is fully committed.
Not worth the money to have one person just to balance a game and nothing else.
yup, this is blizzards outdated vision that doesn't actually work with esports at all.
On January 26 2014 12:05 Canucklehead wrote: People like to rag on david kim, but I highly doubt most pro gamers could do his job because balancing the game is probably a very small part of his job. At least that's what I assume as there's no way he can just do balance for the bulk of his work day. He holds a pretty senior position so probably has a ton of other work and responsibility outside of just balancing the game.
So go hire someone that is fully committed.
Not worth the money to have one person just to balance a game and nothing else.
yup, this is blizzards outdated vision that doesn't actually work with esports at all.
I doubt that Riot or Valve have one person who's sole purpose is to balance the game. I am sure people there fill many roles and do more than just crunch the numbers on balance all day.
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
Translation: what's wrong with wanting someone unable to pay their bills and losing the health insurance?
When you say you want someone fired over balance in a video game, it makes you look heartless and entitled.
Plansix come on man.
Let's imagine you're the owner of a video game company (which is a business ). Would you really say "well I can't fire my balance designer despite the fact my game has trash balance because it'd be heartless and entitled"? Really?
Do you know how business works? You don't perform, and you're gone. That's life. Businesses exist to make money, and they do so by releasing quality products or providing quality services. It isn't heartless and entitled to fire people who don't add quality to the product. If you don't add quality, you should be fired because you need to get better.
Should David Kim be fired? Well, the community has said increase Siege Tank attack speed for how long before he did? Said to buff Hydras for how long? Said Warhounds were crap for how long before he did anything? How long was the 1-1-1 imba? How long was the 4 gate a problem? And how bout those Hellbats on release, I remember just about everyone warning him it was BFH 2.0 (especially in TvT) and of course it turned out that way. I can quote posts and the dates. It was months.
He just doesn't get it. The same solutions he implemented were given to him months before he implemented them. Has he thought any amazing or graceful balance solutions? None that stick out to me. Photon Overcharge stopped the 4 gate, but caused more problems than it solved. I just people by their actions. David Kim has done a mediocre job with balance and used foolish logic and excuses, like stating "Siege Tanks are boring" because they promote defensive play, but then he goes ahead and releases the Swarm Host thinking it will allow Zerg to be more aggressive in the mid game and finish their opponents. How is that working out?
Months.
If your competitors are months ahead of you, you go out of business in the business world.
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
Translation: what's wrong with wanting someone unable to pay their bills and losing the health insurance?
When you say you want someone fired over balance in a video game, it makes you look heartless and entitled.
Plansix come on man.
Let's imagine you're the owner of a video game company (which is a business . Would you really say "well I can't fire my balance designer despite the fact my game has trash balance because it'd be heartless and entitled"? Really?
Do you know how business works? You don't perform, and you're gone. That's life. Businesses exist to make money, and they do so by releasing quality products. It isn't heartless and entitled to fire people who don't add quality to the product. If you don't add quality, you should be fired because you need to get better.
Should David Kim be fired? Well, the community has said increase Siege Tank attack speed for how long before he did? Said to buff Hydras for how long? Said Warhounds were crap for how long before he did anything? How long was the 1-1-1 imba? How long was the 4 gate a problem? And how bout those Hellbats on release, I remember just about everyone warning him it was BFH 2.0 (especially in TvT) and of course it turned out that way. I can quote posts and the dates. It was months.
He just doesn't get it. The same solutions he implemented were given to him months before he implemented them. Has he thought any amazing or graceful balance solutions? None that stick out to me. Photon Overcharge stopped the 4 gate, but caused more problems than it solved.
Months.
If your competitors are months ahead of you, you go out of business in the business world.
The design team can't take everything the community says seriously. For every person that has correctly predicted problems or made good suggestions there are 10 who have some ridiculous inane broken idea to give their race free wins. Everything the design people look at from the community has to be analyzed extremely critically and carefully before even putting it into a balance test map. You can't take everything in the community seriously as a designer
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
Translation: what's wrong with wanting someone unable to pay their bills and losing the health insurance?
When you say you want someone fired over balance in a video game, it makes you look heartless and entitled.
Plansix come on man.
Let's imagine you're the owner of a video game company (which is a business . Would you really say "well I can't fire my balance designer despite the fact my game has trash balance because it'd be heartless and entitled"? Really?
Do you know how business works? You don't perform, and you're gone. That's life. Businesses exist to make money, and they do so by releasing quality products. It isn't heartless and entitled to fire people who don't add quality to the product. If you don't add quality, you should be fired because you need to get better.
Should David Kim be fired? Well, the community has said increase Siege Tank attack speed for how long before he did? Said to buff Hydras for how long? Said Warhounds were crap for how long before he did anything? How long was the 1-1-1 imba? How long was the 4 gate a problem? And how bout those Hellbats on release, I remember just about everyone warning him it was BFH 2.0 (especially in TvT) and of course it turned out that way. I can quote posts and the dates. It was months.
He just doesn't get it. The same solutions he implemented were given to him months before he implemented them. Has he thought any amazing or graceful balance solutions? None that stick out to me. Photon Overcharge stopped the 4 gate, but caused more problems than it solved.
Months.
If your competitors are months ahead of you, you go out of business in the business world.
The design team can't take everything the community says seriously. For every person that has correctly predicted problems or made good suggestions there are 10 who have some ridiculous inane broken idea to give their race free wins. Everything the design people look at from the community has to be analyzed extremely critically and carefully before even putting it into a balance test map. You can't take everything in the community seriously as a designer
Sure. And that's why a good designer can think and weed out bad ideas from good ones. A good designer doesn't even let the idea of the Warhound out of his head, let alone spend money developing it, testing it, and then releasing it to Beta, where people simply say, " why does this unit have no counters... and isn't this just a Factory Marauder that makes Mech play like Bio?" And the design team is like "oh, we didn't think of that, better take it out of the game because we are out ideas for it!" Really? That isn't the sign of a good design team.
A good designer doesn't let the 1-1-1 dominate PvT or the 4 Gate dominate PvP for months, if not years.
And we can qualitatively analyze their decisions, and fact is, they aren't doing well. It be'd one thing if these problems were incredibly hard to solve and thus it took them months to come up creative and graceful solutions. But most of their good balance changes come months after the community suggests them. And after the "great design team" tried things that had failed. That isn't a sign of success.
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
Translation: what's wrong with wanting someone unable to pay their bills and losing the health insurance?
When you say you want someone fired over balance in a video game, it makes you look heartless and entitled.
Plansix come on man.
Let's imagine you're the owner of a video game company (which is a business . Would you really say "well I can't fire my balance designer despite the fact my game has trash balance because it'd be heartless and entitled"? Really?
Do you know how business works? You don't perform, and you're gone. That's life. Businesses exist to make money, and they do so by releasing quality products. It isn't heartless and entitled to fire people who don't add quality to the product. If you don't add quality, you should be fired because you need to get better.
Should David Kim be fired? Well, the community has said increase Siege Tank attack speed for how long before he did? Said to buff Hydras for how long? Said Warhounds were crap for how long before he did anything? How long was the 1-1-1 imba? How long was the 4 gate a problem? And how bout those Hellbats on release, I remember just about everyone warning him it was BFH 2.0 (especially in TvT) and of course it turned out that way. I can quote posts and the dates. It was months.
He just doesn't get it. The same solutions he implemented were given to him months before he implemented them. Has he thought any amazing or graceful balance solutions? None that stick out to me. Photon Overcharge stopped the 4 gate, but caused more problems than it solved.
Months.
If your competitors are months ahead of you, you go out of business in the business world.
The design team can't take everything the community says seriously. For every person that has correctly predicted problems or made good suggestions there are 10 who have some ridiculous inane broken idea to give their race free wins. Everything the design people look at from the community has to be analyzed extremely critically and carefully before even putting it into a balance test map. You can't take everything in the community seriously as a designer
Sure. And that's why a good designer can think and weed out bad ideas from good ones. A good designer doesn't even let the idea of the Warhound out of his head, let alone spend money developing it, testing it, and then releasing it to Beta, where people simply say, " why does this unit have no counters... and isn't this just a Factory Marauder that makes Mech play like Bio?" And the design team is like "oh, we didn't think of that, better take it out of the game because we are out ideas for it!" Really? That isn't the sign of a good design team.
A good designer doesn't let the 1-1-1 dominate PvT or the 4 Gate dominate PvP for months, if not years.
And we can qualitatively analyze their decisions, and fact is, they aren't doing well. It be'd one thing if these problems were incredibly hard to solve and thus it took them months to come up creative and graceful solutions. But most of their good balance changes come months after the community suggests them. And after the "great design team" tried things that had failed. That isn't a sign of success.
It is a sign of failure.
many people liked the warhound and wanted tweaks instead of a removal.
It's easy to say that's a bad idea, how could they think of that. But you need to go back to the beta to see how many things they have tried to make the units good, look at mothershipcore and oracle for example.
You are also forgetting that blizzard tends to act harshly on things that they see as a problem, such as mass snipe and they slow down on some other changes, such as the hellbat nerf. quite a few people have said 1-1-1 was defendable but only difficult because of the map. both PvP and 1-1-1 were solved more or less with that very one patch, the immortal buff.
you can see how blizzard know which one they wanted to fix right away and which one they wanted to give it more time to see how it goes while searching for the right way to patch.
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
Translation: what's wrong with wanting someone unable to pay their bills and losing the health insurance?
When you say you want someone fired over balance in a video game, it makes you look heartless and entitled.
Plansix come on man.
Let's imagine you're the owner of a video game company (which is a business . Would you really say "well I can't fire my balance designer despite the fact my game has trash balance because it'd be heartless and entitled"? Really?
Do you know how business works? You don't perform, and you're gone. That's life. Businesses exist to make money, and they do so by releasing quality products. It isn't heartless and entitled to fire people who don't add quality to the product. If you don't add quality, you should be fired because you need to get better.
Should David Kim be fired? Well, the community has said increase Siege Tank attack speed for how long before he did? Said to buff Hydras for how long? Said Warhounds were crap for how long before he did anything? How long was the 1-1-1 imba? How long was the 4 gate a problem? And how bout those Hellbats on release, I remember just about everyone warning him it was BFH 2.0 (especially in TvT) and of course it turned out that way. I can quote posts and the dates. It was months.
He just doesn't get it. The same solutions he implemented were given to him months before he implemented them. Has he thought any amazing or graceful balance solutions? None that stick out to me. Photon Overcharge stopped the 4 gate, but caused more problems than it solved.
Months.
If your competitors are months ahead of you, you go out of business in the business world.
The design team can't take everything the community says seriously. For every person that has correctly predicted problems or made good suggestions there are 10 who have some ridiculous inane broken idea to give their race free wins. Everything the design people look at from the community has to be analyzed extremely critically and carefully before even putting it into a balance test map. You can't take everything in the community seriously as a designer
Sure. And that's why a good designer can think and weed out bad ideas from good ones. A good designer doesn't even let the idea of the Warhound out of his head, let alone spend money developing it, testing it, and then releasing it to Beta, where people simply say, " why does this unit have no counters... and isn't this just a Factory Marauder that makes Mech play like Bio?" And the design team is like "oh, we didn't think of that, better take it out of the game because we are out ideas for it!" Really? That isn't the sign of a good design team.
A good designer doesn't let the 1-1-1 dominate PvT or the 4 Gate dominate PvP for months, if not years.
And we can qualitatively analyze their decisions, and fact is, they aren't doing well. It be'd one thing if these problems were incredibly hard to solve and thus it took them months to come up creative and graceful solutions. But most of their good balance changes come months after the community suggests them. And after the "great design team" tried things that had failed. That isn't a sign of success.
It is a sign of failure.
many people liked the warhound and wanted tweaks instead of a removal.
It's easy to say that's a bad idea, how could they think of that. But you need to go back to the beta to see how many things they have tried to make the units good, look at mothershipcore and oracle for example.
You are also forgetting that blizzard tends to act harshly on things that they see as a problem, such as mass snipe and they slow down on some other changes, such as the hellbat nerf. quite a few people have said 1-1-1 was defendable but only difficult because of the map. both PvP and 1-1-1 were solved more or less with that very one patch, the immortal buff.
you can see how blizzard know which one they wanted to fix right away and which one they wanted to give it more time to see how it goes while searching for the right way to patch.
Yes many people did want the Warhound tweaked. But Blizzard was incapable of it, because the idea was too terrible to fix. The product of a bad design team.
I didn't even mention when they acted harshly. Or the fact that the map pool saved us from the 1-1-1 (not the Immortal buff) and the Roach max versus Protoss. Maps these days have to support so many features in order to actually balance the game, it limits map design.
I'd say the Oracle was a success, however the MSC is a failure. As a Protoss player, I think is far too strong defensively early. It has to do so much damage because of how tanky early Protoss units are to stop the 4 Gate, but they should have made it only damage shields and air units, slow units, and drain energy. That'd help versus improved drops and Mutas, stop the 4 gate, and generally just be better. The damage it does is too strong early versus the low HP units of Terran and Zerg. It makes the game boring.
On January 26 2014 16:25 XiaoJoyce- wrote: Who is David Ting? What is so special about him?
Former head of IPL.
To be honest, this thread started out as major Blizzard-flame drama, and slowly regressed down to much less exciting news. Still worth a notice if you were interested in what the old IPL crew was doing in San Fran.
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
Translation: what's wrong with wanting someone unable to pay their bills and losing the health insurance?
When you say you want someone fired over balance in a video game, it makes you look heartless and entitled.
Plansix come on man.
Let's imagine you're the owner of a video game company (which is a business . Would you really say "well I can't fire my balance designer despite the fact my game has trash balance because it'd be heartless and entitled"? Really?
Do you know how business works? You don't perform, and you're gone. That's life. Businesses exist to make money, and they do so by releasing quality products. It isn't heartless and entitled to fire people who don't add quality to the product. If you don't add quality, you should be fired because you need to get better.
Should David Kim be fired? Well, the community has said increase Siege Tank attack speed for how long before he did? Said to buff Hydras for how long? Said Warhounds were crap for how long before he did anything? How long was the 1-1-1 imba? How long was the 4 gate a problem? And how bout those Hellbats on release, I remember just about everyone warning him it was BFH 2.0 (especially in TvT) and of course it turned out that way. I can quote posts and the dates. It was months.
He just doesn't get it. The same solutions he implemented were given to him months before he implemented them. Has he thought any amazing or graceful balance solutions? None that stick out to me. Photon Overcharge stopped the 4 gate, but caused more problems than it solved.
Months.
If your competitors are months ahead of you, you go out of business in the business world.
The design team can't take everything the community says seriously. For every person that has correctly predicted problems or made good suggestions there are 10 who have some ridiculous inane broken idea to give their race free wins. Everything the design people look at from the community has to be analyzed extremely critically and carefully before even putting it into a balance test map. You can't take everything in the community seriously as a designer
Sure. And that's why a good designer can think and weed out bad ideas from good ones. A good designer doesn't even let the idea of the Warhound out of his head, let alone spend money developing it, testing it, and then releasing it to Beta, where people simply say, " why does this unit have no counters... and isn't this just a Factory Marauder that makes Mech play like Bio?" And the design team is like "oh, we didn't think of that, better take it out of the game because we are out ideas for it!" Really? That isn't the sign of a good design team.
A good designer doesn't let the 1-1-1 dominate PvT or the 4 Gate dominate PvP for months, if not years.
And we can qualitatively analyze their decisions, and fact is, they aren't doing well. It be'd one thing if these problems were incredibly hard to solve and thus it took them months to come up creative and graceful solutions. But most of their good balance changes come months after the community suggests them. And after the "great design team" tried things that had failed. That isn't a sign of success.
It is a sign of failure.
many people liked the warhound and wanted tweaks instead of a removal.
It's easy to say that's a bad idea, how could they think of that. But you need to go back to the beta to see how many things they have tried to make the units good, look at mothershipcore and oracle for example.
You are also forgetting that blizzard tends to act harshly on things that they see as a problem, such as mass snipe and they slow down on some other changes, such as the hellbat nerf. quite a few people have said 1-1-1 was defendable but only difficult because of the map. both PvP and 1-1-1 were solved more or less with that very one patch, the immortal buff.
you can see how blizzard know which one they wanted to fix right away and which one they wanted to give it more time to see how it goes while searching for the right way to patch.
Yes many people did want the Warhound tweaked. But Blizzard was incapable of it, because the idea was too terrible to fix. The product of a bad design team.
I didn't even mention when they acted harshly. Or the fact that the map pool saved us from the 1-1-1 (not the Immortal buff) and the Roach max versus Protoss. Maps these days have to support so many features in order to actually balance the game, it limits map design.
I'd say the Oracle was a success, however the MSC is a failure. As a Protoss player, I think is far too strong defensively early. It has to do so much damage because of how tanky early Protoss units are to stop the 4 Gate, but they should have made it only damage shields and air units, slow units, and drain energy. That'd help versus improved drops and Mutas, stop the 4 gate, and generally just be better. The damage it does is too strong early versus the low HP units of Terran and Zerg. It makes the game boring.
Hey guys, guess what? David Kim still has shit-all to do with this thread.
I'm concerned that this is just the beginning before a full-scaling back of the WCS system and all that entails. Frankly I don't get why they hired so many of the IPL guys only not to use them, but then again the Blzizzard of tyhe modern era are somewhat mystifying to me.
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
Translation: what's wrong with wanting someone unable to pay their bills and losing the health insurance?
When you say you want someone fired over balance in a video game, it makes you look heartless and entitled.
Plansix come on man.
Let's imagine you're the owner of a video game company (which is a business ). Would you really say "well I can't fire my balance designer despite the fact my game has trash balance because it'd be heartless and entitled"? Really?
Do you know how business works? You don't perform, and you're gone. That's life. Businesses exist to make money, and they do so by releasing quality products or providing quality services. It isn't heartless and entitled to fire people who don't add quality to the product. If you don't add quality, you should be fired because you need to get better.
Should David Kim be fired? Well, the community has said increase Siege Tank attack speed for how long before he did? Said to buff Hydras for how long? Said Warhounds were crap for how long before he did anything? How long was the 1-1-1 imba? How long was the 4 gate a problem? And how bout those Hellbats on release, I remember just about everyone warning him it was BFH 2.0 (especially in TvT) and of course it turned out that way. I can quote posts and the dates. It was months.
He just doesn't get it. The same solutions he implemented were given to him months before he implemented them. Has he thought any amazing or graceful balance solutions? None that stick out to me. Photon Overcharge stopped the 4 gate, but caused more problems than it solved. I just people by their actions. David Kim has done a mediocre job with balance and used foolish logic and excuses, like stating "Siege Tanks are boring" because they promote defensive play, but then he goes ahead and releases the Swarm Host thinking it will allow Zerg to be more aggressive in the mid game and finish their opponents. How is that working out?
Months.
If your competitors are months ahead of you, you go out of business in the business world.
You're saying it was months. Are you kidding? If it was only months, it's a good thing he didn't switch everything everytime someone whined. Because sometimes the solution presents itself. You can't keep changing something the moment something becomes imba. Have you seen SC:BW's winrate trends go up and down?
If anything, your argument only reinforces the point it's good people like you aren't in charge of balance...
On January 25 2014 16:35 Kergy wrote: fired the wrong david -_-
User was warned for this post
Any owner of SC2 game reserves a right to be unhappy with the product's support and to be vocal about it. Whats wrong with wanting someone to get fired? its just an opinion of one individual that person in charge doesn't fit the job. However outright bashing, smth like "DK is a stupid fuck, and turned starcraft 2 into a shit" is ofc too far since its personal.
Translation: what's wrong with wanting someone unable to pay their bills and losing the health insurance?
When you say you want someone fired over balance in a video game, it makes you look heartless and entitled.
Plansix come on man.
Let's imagine you're the owner of a video game company (which is a business ). Would you really say "well I can't fire my balance designer despite the fact my game has trash balance because it'd be heartless and entitled"? Really?
Do you know how business works? You don't perform, and you're gone. That's life. Businesses exist to make money, and they do so by releasing quality products or providing quality services. It isn't heartless and entitled to fire people who don't add quality to the product. If you don't add quality, you should be fired because you need to get better.
Should David Kim be fired? Well, the community has said increase Siege Tank attack speed for how long before he did? Said to buff Hydras for how long? Said Warhounds were crap for how long before he did anything? How long was the 1-1-1 imba? How long was the 4 gate a problem? And how bout those Hellbats on release, I remember just about everyone warning him it was BFH 2.0 (especially in TvT) and of course it turned out that way. I can quote posts and the dates. It was months.
He just doesn't get it. The same solutions he implemented were given to him months before he implemented them. Has he thought any amazing or graceful balance solutions? None that stick out to me. Photon Overcharge stopped the 4 gate, but caused more problems than it solved. I just people by their actions. David Kim has done a mediocre job with balance and used foolish logic and excuses, like stating "Siege Tanks are boring" because they promote defensive play, but then he goes ahead and releases the Swarm Host thinking it will allow Zerg to be more aggressive in the mid game and finish their opponents. How is that working out?
Months.
If your competitors are months ahead of you, you go out of business in the business world.
You're saying it was months. Are you kidding? If it was only months, it's a good thing he didn't switch everything everytime someone whined. Because sometimes the solution presents itself. You can't keep changing something the moment something becomes imba. Have you seen SC:BW's winrate trends go up and down?
If anything, your argument only reinforces the point it's good people like you aren't in charge of balance...
Just try to picture how terrible the game would be if David Kim was worried about point his job because people were whining on TL and reddit? We would have a balance patch every month and the game would be a hotmes
On January 27 2014 12:27 Wombat_NI wrote: How did this go to David Kim bashing?
I'm concerned that this is just the beginning before a full-scaling back of the WCS system and all that entails. Frankly I don't get why they hired so many of the IPL guys only not to use them, but then again the Blzizzard of tyhe modern era are somewhat mystifying to me.
This. It seemed that they didn't know what to do with the IPL guys.
On January 26 2014 12:05 Canucklehead wrote: People like to rag on david kim, but I highly doubt most pro gamers could do his job because balancing the game is probably a very small part of his job. At least that's what I assume as there's no way he can just do balance for the bulk of his work day. He holds a pretty senior position so probably has a ton of other work and responsibility outside of just balancing the game.
So go hire someone that is fully committed.
Not worth the money to have one person just to balance a game and nothing else.
yup, this is blizzards outdated vision that doesn't actually work with esports at all.
I doubt that Riot or Valve have one person who's sole purpose is to balance the game. I am sure people there fill many roles and do more than just crunch the numbers on balance all day.
EPT
. Not that I want to see them lose their employment totally, just that I would like to see them on another project...
