EPT1/24 Balance test map - Page 26
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Constructive criticism is welcome, but no mindless SC2/Developer bashing in this thread. | ||
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Calm
Canada380 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27462 Posts
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dyDrawer
Canada438 Posts
On January 24 2014 08:11 Whitewing wrote: Most expand builds in PvP are already extremely tight: the matchup is razor's edge for whether you can expand at all or never. Delaying PO will bring it back to only 1 base ever. I think in mirror match-ups it's natural to not expand at the same rate as you do in non mirrors. Look at TvT for example, where players usually go for some kind of tech (i.e. Hellion/Banshee) before stabilizing to a safe expand. Even in ZvZ you take your 3rd significantly slower (a 3rd for a Zerg is kinda like a natural for Protoss and Terran). I think it's reasonable to expect opening up tech before stabilizing to an expansion in PvP as well. Delaying PO will probably destroy 1 gate FE and hurt 2 gate FE, but I think its impact on tech based builds is totally manageable. The only thing that worries me about PO delay is defending gateway attacks when opening up tech. | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On January 24 2014 11:16 Calm wrote: Words cannot express how excited I am about the Hydra change. Thankfully it has a 0% chance of going through with the current numbers at the very least. | ||
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
On January 24 2014 11:20 ZAiNs wrote: Thankfully it has a 0% chance of going through with the current numbers at the very least. Never underestimate the SC2 balance team statistics | ||
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fish83814
Taiwan98 Posts
On January 24 2014 11:13 MrLightning wrote: Brilliant idea! Having 13 range Hydras at Hive is a step in the right direction for fixing the silly imbalanced Protoss favored PvZ late game. Would you also agree with me in suggesting increased damage and life to Locusts? I believe that this change in correlation with your 13 range Hydras will truly make the game more fun and balanced for everyone who matters. <3 <3 XOXOX lol i didn't say 13 range where did you get that insane idea | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
 Anyway, we will see how it goes, Ghost buff might be good. | ||
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AxiomBlurr
786 Posts
MSC core needs a small decrease in vision... Ghost change is nice,,,but does not address the mech weakness of T v P... (for this I suggest a change to tanks: when they are unsieged they have higher hitpoints) - this way they could go in behind hellbats unsieged and have a chance (due to higher firerate of unsieged v sieged) against immortals and it would also make for more micro,.,,. | ||
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fish83814
Taiwan98 Posts
On January 24 2014 11:25 AxiomBlurr wrote: Hydra change is scary as hell...too OP... MSC core needs a small decrease in vision... Ghost change is nice,,,but does not address the mech weakness of T v P... (for this I suggest a change to tanks: when they are unsieged they have higher hitpoints) - this way they could go in behind hellbats unsieged and have a chance (due to higher firerate of unsieged v sieged) against immortals and it would also make for more micro,.,,. i don't know about this...shouldn't catching tanks unsieged be rewarding?? (speaking as a zerg) | ||
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Swisslink
2958 Posts
On January 24 2014 11:25 Faust852 wrote: Zergs is the best race currently, better buff the Hydra. Anyway, we will see how it goes, Ghost buff might be good. wat? ZvP seems balanced all around the world. ZvT seems balanced all around the world PvT... well... Protoss basically doesn't lose at all Z = Best race? :D And again: Zerg has absolutely no chance late game if there weren't these goddamn Swarmhosts. Protoss like to forget how insanely strong their lategame army is if you can't keep it away from your base with free units. Because as soon as you use units which actually cost money, you're insanely cost inefficient... and die. | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
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MrLightning
306 Posts
On January 24 2014 11:23 fish83814 wrote: lol i didn't say 13 range where did you get that insane idea Insane idea? And here I though you were a fellow Zerg battler with vision. Think about the possiblity of 13 range Hydras!!! They will kill tanks in siege mode!!! To win games all we will have to do is build hydras!!! Everything else is just icing on the on our 70% win ratio cake. I am so excited for this change. I cant wait for the next round of patches that will restore Zerg dominance and slowly phase out Protoss as a race in this game. Yorbon^^^ <3 <3 <3 Lets 2v2 sometime. We can double 6pool every game! | ||
lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
These actually look like decent attempts to change things up to me. I hope they try more radical changes though, since this is a test map after all | ||
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fish83814
Taiwan98 Posts
On January 24 2014 11:32 MrLightning wrote: Insane idea? And here I though you were a fellow Zerg battler with vision. Think about the possiblity of 13 range Hydras!!! They will kill tanks in siege mode!!! To win games all we will have to do is build hydras!!! Everything else is just icing on the on our 70% win ratio cake. I am so excited for this change. I cant wait for the next round of patches that will restore Zerg dominance and slowly phase out Protoss as a race in this game. Yorbon^^^ <3 <3 <3 Lets 2v2 sometime. We can double 6pool every game! no hydra would never need more range than colossi, even that would be a huge overkill. range 7 will be good enough for them in the late game sentries+splash cannot completely destroy a hydra army anymore. it will look more like an PvT late game engagement while terran have healing but zerg have remaxing focusing colossi and high templars would be possible but not too easy | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On January 24 2014 11:38 lichter wrote: These threads always get so salty These actually look like decent attempts to change things up to me. I hope they try more radical changes though, since this is a test map after all People are just a little apprehensive after last time. The oracle speed buff was dismissed as being ridiculous but then it made it through somehow, despite huge protests. That buff should never have happened. Never made sense, never will. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
Would be nice to spend some time and actually fix the games problems rather then bizarre band aid fixes like these, which always lead to problems down the line. Also that hydra buff. Rofl. | ||
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MrLightning
306 Posts
On January 24 2014 11:39 fish83814 wrote: no hydra would never need more range than colossi, even that would be a huge overkill. range 7 will be good enough for them in the late game sentries+splash cannot completely destroy a hydra army anymore. it will look more like an PvT late game engagement while terran have healing but zerg have remaxing focusing colossi and high templars would be possible but not too easy Decreasing the cost of the Hydra is just that: a timing overkill. Why not just go all the way then. What if the Protoss by some miracle survives early Hydra aggression? Buff Hydras for the late game as well. Give them more range like you suggested, not 13, I guess any range buff will do since the Protoss will be massively behind from the early game Hydra aggression if not outright dead. His only chance will be airtoss which will be denied by our amazing range solution. Range 7 is ok, but we wont complain if its 8 right, ; ) ? It was annoying how sentries + splash killed pure hydras right? We should be able to spam pure hydras without anything being able to kill them quickly. The only relation that PvT has to PvZ is that both matchups are favored towards Protoss. Terrans need more healing and Zergs need faster and cheaper remaxing. A nerf to both colossi and templar is not a bad idea. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On January 24 2014 11:51 MrLightning wrote: Decreasing the cost of the Hydra is just that: a timing overkill. Why not just go all the way then. What if the Protoss by some miracle survives early Hydra aggression? Buff Hydras for the late game as well. Give them more range like you suggested, not 13, I guess any range buff will do since the Protoss will be massively behind from the early game Hydra aggression if not outright dead. His only chance will be airtoss which will be denied by our amazing range solution. Range 7 is ok, but we wont complain if its 8 right, ; ) ? It was annoying how sentries + splash killed pure hydras right? We should be able to spam pure hydras without anything being able to kill them quickly. The only relation that PvT has to PvZ is that both matchups are favored towards Protoss. Terrans need more healing and Zergs need faster and cheaper remaxing. A nerf to both colossi and templar is not a bad idea. Recent stats suggest that while PvT is a couple of % in Protoss favor, PvZ is a % or two in Z favor. | ||
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MrLightning
306 Posts
On January 24 2014 11:54 Whitewing wrote: Recent stats suggest that while PvT is a couple of % in Protoss favor, PvZ is a % or two in Z favor. Disgusting, is it not? That is absolutely ridiculous! I hope that this MSC nerf and Hydra buff fixes these numbers. Of course stonger measures will probably have to be taken in PvT, i foresee perhaps the removal of Blink. | ||
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fish83814
Taiwan98 Posts
On January 24 2014 11:51 MrLightning wrote: Decreasing the cost of the Hydra is just that: a timing overkill. Why not just go all the way then. What if the Protoss by some miracle survives early Hydra aggression? Buff Hydras for the late game as well. Give them more range like you suggested, not 13, I guess any range buff will do since the Protoss will be massively behind from the early game Hydra aggression if not outright dead. His only chance will be airtoss which will be denied by our amazing range solution. Range 7 is ok, but we wont complain if its 8 right, ; ) ? It was annoying how sentries + splash killed pure hydras right? We should be able to spam pure hydras without anything being able to kill them quickly. The only relation that PvT has to PvZ is that both matchups are favored towards Protoss. Terrans need more healing and Zergs need faster and cheaper remaxing. A nerf to both colossi and templar is not a bad idea. you are just trolling right? obviously they would never do the range buff and cast buff together | ||
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