EPTNow picture this:
PvZ on Deadalus pt. Zerg goes for 2 base Hydra timing.
or PvZ on habitation station. Zerg goes for 3 base Hydra timing w/ gold base.
1/24 Balance test map - Page 18
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Constructive criticism is welcome, but no mindless SC2/Developer bashing in this thread. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
Now picture this: PvZ on Deadalus pt. Zerg goes for 2 base Hydra timing. or PvZ on habitation station. Zerg goes for 3 base Hydra timing w/ gold base. | ||
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KingAlphard
Italy1705 Posts
75 to 100 energy nerf can be useful because at least it would require protoss players to use it more carefully, because you can't have 3 time warps in a row like you do now. You could however still double time warp on engagements, and timewarp into recall. So it doesn't really change that much. Nerfing the % it slows down units could also be effective, but it wouldn't make it more interesting. Maybe the best solution would be reducing the area. It would require the protoss player to be more accurate with it, and it would be more interesting when used in chokes rather than in open engagements, because it would still have the same effectiveness there. | ||
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Lobotomist
United States1541 Posts
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On January 24 2014 06:16 Whitewing wrote: The roach timings got speed, the hydra timings will too. I'd be way more scared of hydra/ling all-ins than I would be of roach all-ins. Can't really, then you get hit by the muta switch since those hydras were 25 gas a pop. Roach timings relied on a tanky unit that could just bludgeon its way through. Hydras cannot do that. Some basic defense and decent AOE will wipe them out just as quickly as right now. Hydra/ling is surprisingly ineffective against a basic gateway army with good forcefields. The muta switch is a possible scenario, but the amount of production and resources needed to max on hydra/ling and then switch to mutas is huge. You'll never see this in a stage of the game where hydras are still dangerous. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
Just reduce the MsC vision by a little and don't make all the maps super blink friendly. No more TW nerfs needed. It's really useful vs. P and vs. Z. | ||
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TheAvatar
Sweden11 Posts
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Frex
Finland888 Posts
On January 24 2014 06:19 KingAlphard wrote: Time warp is just a really annoying and overpowered ability, I'm a protoss player but I feel that from PvP. 75 to 100 energy nerf can be useful because at least it would require protoss players to use it more carefully, because you can't have 3 time warps in a row like you do now. You could however still double time warp on engagements, and timewarp into recall. So it doesn't really change that much. Nerfing the % it slows down units could also be effective, but it wouldn't make it more interesting. Maybe the best solution would be reducing the area. It would require the protoss player to be more accurate with it, and it would be more interesting when used in chokes rather than in open engagements, because it would still have the same effectiveness there. I have also been thinking about cooldown on Photon Overcharge and Time Warp. This would prevent things such as a double Time Warp on maxed army, double Photon Overcharge on two Nexi. You could still use PO and Time Warp same time, however, you could no longer use the same spell twice in a row. | ||
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one-one-one
Sweden551 Posts
On January 24 2014 05:49 Plansix wrote: TL does require that people put more effort into their shit posts. Why are you not permanently banned and have your 10 last known ip-addresses blacklisted then? User was warned for this post | ||
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ffadicted
United States3545 Posts
On January 24 2014 06:16 Whitewing wrote: The roach timings got speed, the hydra timings will too. I'd be way more scared of hydra/ling all-ins than I would be of roach all-ins. Can't really, then you get hit by the muta switch since those hydras were 25 gas a pop. You think a templar opening will fare any better? lol I was just making a retort to a silly positive No matter how you slice it, hydra into muta is retarded... you open stargate, you just die to hydras, you don't, you just die to muta switch. All-in every game prob gonna fail cuz hydras beat pretty much all good toss all-ins. It's just a dumb idea lol | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On January 24 2014 06:22 Squat wrote: Roach timings relied on a tanky unit that could just bludgeon its way through. Hydras cannot do that. Some basic defense and decent AOE will wipe them out just as quickly as right now. Hydra/ling is surprisingly ineffective against a basic gateway army with good forcefields. And when there are literally twice as many Hydras? | ||
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Asturas
Finland587 Posts
Hydralisk change will create early timings, sort of all-ins. As usually with this kind of changes. I would imagine that Tempest changes will just encourage Protoss to make some sort of Tempest rushes. I believe that Rotterdam is already doing this. Ghost change will absolutely not help Mech. It obviously will help bio play and as Koreans will know to make bio much stronger using Ghosts, D. Kim will have another opportunity to nerf Terran. Do you remember Medivacs from HotS BETA? After an upgrade they were healing faster because D. Kim though it will help using Hellbats. It in fact it made Bio stronger, obviously. But yeah, Ghosts will make Mech usable in TvP... User was warned for this post | ||
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Musicus
Germany23580 Posts
On January 24 2014 06:23 DinoMight wrote: And when there are literally twice as many Hydras? Didn't see that patch note that gives zergs double the minerals and larva. It will "just" give zergs more gas for upgrades and tech switches, not really have a huge impact on the hydra numbers. | ||
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On January 24 2014 06:23 DinoMight wrote: And when there are literally twice as many Hydras? When there are literally twice as many hydras they are still shit. You deal with them the exact same way as now. Seriously, I can't believe someone is actually worried about hydras. | ||
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Tossim111
United States246 Posts
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Waise
3165 Posts
 in all seriousness though - 100/25 hydras would change zvp for sure and add a new powerful timing, but i think it'll be holdable. if the timing is too strong, maybe increase the build time on the hydra den and/or upgrades. but colossus and templar already hardcounter hydras so hard that i doubt hydra all ins are going to destroy the matchup the tempest buff.... ugh.... i'm all for getting rid of the swarm host static D style, but the potential for abuse seems way too big. tempest hit squads, anyone? | ||
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muzzy
United States640 Posts
On January 24 2014 04:25 sAsImre wrote: funny to use this argument to decredibilise starbow when sc2 isn't better atm. Read the posts chronologically. I was replying to someone bashing SC2 in comparison to SC2. I'm not claiming SC2 balance is perfect, but Starbow certainly isn't. | ||
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BruMeister
United States90 Posts
1. An automatic boost of energy for the ghost would be OP against High Templar. If this buff is to be done, High Templar would need a way to have storms more readily (in the same way ghosts will have EMP more readily. Bio forces would be much stronger because ghosts can more actively EMP High Templar, which are often used to storm the bio when they mass up. This could be in the form of HT starting with more energy, the return of the khaydarin amulet upgrade, or perhaps an upgrade which gives increased energy regen. 2. An interesting upgrade for the Tempest. What about this upgrade for the Carrier instead, however. The Tempest is already used, even if it is a tad niche, but the Carrier is never used because it is so under powered. I think this upgrade would be better suited for the carrier, especially since the Tempest can already shoot so far away that with that +building damage it would make it TOO strong. | ||
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ffadicted
United States3545 Posts
On January 24 2014 06:22 Squat wrote: Roach timings relied on a tanky unit that could just bludgeon its way through. Hydras cannot do that. Some basic defense and decent AOE will wipe them out just as quickly as right now. Hydra/ling is surprisingly ineffective against a basic gateway army with good forcefields. Ok first of all, yes about the roach, but god no about hydraling... it destroys gateway hahaha On January 24 2014 06:27 Musicus wrote: Didn't see that patch note that gives zergs double the minerals and larva. It will "just" give zergs more gas for upgrades and tech switches, not really have a huge impact on the hydra numbers. Gas is the zerg bottle neck... more gas = more everything | ||
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Creager
Germany1962 Posts
On January 24 2014 06:32 BruMeister wrote: 2. An interesting upgrade for the Tempest. What about this upgrade for the Carrier instead, however. The Tempest is already used, even if it is a tad niche, but the Carrier is never used because it is so under powered. I think this upgrade would be better suited for the carrier, especially since the Tempest can already shoot so far away that with that +building damage it would make it TOO strong. I really like that idea, that would certainly fill a niche for Protoss players and giving them more options for Carrier play, better than letting this cool and iconic unit rot like in it's current state. | ||
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manniefresh
United States74 Posts
But like everyone else, I agree that the hydra buff will break PvZ/ force every game into 2 base colossus  | ||
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