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On January 17 2014 15:04 Salient wrote:
Cute arcade game. But I really don't like some of the modifications. Changing out the Colossus for the Reaver is fine. It's also fine to get rid of the MSC thanks to Dragoons.
But I don't like how the map-makers cut out phoenixes. They are so much more interesting and useful than corsairs. I think they should also leave the sentry in the game, but make the force-fields destructible objects with hitpoints. Finally, there was no need to change out the Oracle for some castrated replacement unit (sentinel). It would be fine to nerf the damage or whatever, but there's no need to remove it from the game.
So happy to see Phoenix and Sentry gone lol The Corsair is such a better unit and discourages people from going Mass Muta everygame.
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Lockdown tooltip is bugged.
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On January 18 2014 01:46 Plansix wrote:
Riot has become a bit cut throat for my taste now a days, it's true. But such is business and they know they have to fight to be top dog. It would be better if they were smarter about it though.
Smarter about what?
They have the most popular game, and the most popular esport.
They are the smartest in the scene currently.
And Back on topic:
People have been saying this since the release of SC2... Noone followed competitive BW because it was such a casual friendly game. Only hardcore fans enjoyed/played it because there was such a high skill cap, that it was enjoyable to watch, and feel like "Wow ill never be able to do that".
With SC2 they dumbed down and removed sooooo many mechanical skills from the game, and they made a game that was too competitive for casuals, and too casual for hardcore players. They alienated both groups, which is why we are seeing the decline of SC2's competitive scene. (not going to argue the whole end of the world blahblahblah etc shit, if you are capable of ignoring plummeting stream viewer numbers and fanbase then more power to you and your ignorance).
The custom map scene is what entertained/kept casuals playing. But Bnet2.0 fucking RUINED that scene, by having the worst interface for custom game finding ever.
-*And I wont even talk about the abomination that is custom games... literally SCBW and WCIII had the GREATEST custom map/custom game scene/selection of any games put out by any developer ever... and Blizzard completely fucking RUINED the system with bnet2.0.... how they haven't reverted to original Bnet just shows how out of touch with their playerbase/with reality this developer is. Blizzard went from the best custom map scene in the world, to a custom map scene where there are only 5-10 maps being played, ever.-*
IMO they need to take SC2 back to what BW was, a game with such a high skill cap, that you can just sit and marvel at the amazing players being made by these competitive gaming geniuses.
Seriously, all they needed to do was re-skin BW and people who loved BW, would still love Sc2. And I am really curious to see more from Starbow. I admittedly haven't seen any of it yet aside from a couple minutes, but if they really want this to be a true successor to BW, I am anxious to see more, and hope to see a lot of the mechanics and strategy put back into the game.
IMO what Blizzard should have done with SC2, enable grouping of more than 12 units, and allow auto-mining. The rest was completely unnecessary, in my personal opinion, as someone who was a HUGE fan of competitive BW and has lost all interest in Competitive SC2.
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I know this might not be a high priority change, but I feel Dragoon colors should be a little bit stronger.
Would help viewers/casters and players in pvp.
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just finished playing my first 5 games. I love it~ It was so refreshing to play..
Keep it up team~
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On January 18 2014 02:29 MaestroSC wrote:
IMO what Blizzard should have done with SC2, enable grouping of more than 12 units, and allow auto-mining. The rest was completely unnecessary, in my personal opinion, as someone who was a HUGE fan of competitive BW and has lost all interest in Competitive SC2.
Have you tried playing SC2BW with MBS/UUS on? It's incredibly boring to play, because it removed all the frustrating busywork, but didn't replace it with anything. Starbow is a bit better about this because you have Chrono Boost and Terran Chrono Boost to spend your APM on instead (and inject larva.....I guess......). But once you start adding new APM sinks, you've changed the design, and now that'll lead to further changes....
Can someone explain to me in a bit more detail how mining works in Starbow? I thought it was only less effective as you added workers due to mineral bouncing, but I still only have 50 minerals when my first SCV finishes (implying I'm mining half as fast, since it's twice as many resources per trip).
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I just played 5 or so games but I'm already very impressed by this mod. Huge props to everyone involved.
Since I played so few games so far, I don't really want to talk about balance but everything seems reasonable in my opinion.
I want to add that I sincerely believe that balance could be stabilized much easier than SC2 thanks to the revamped mechanics discouraging "turtle on 3 bases until 200/200 and then throw your deathball at your opponent until one of you die" style.
I have one complaint though: Lurker model looks terrible. It looks like an Ultralisk ate too much and took a huge dump that lasted one hour or so.
Other than that, this mod is a tremendous achievement and it will continue to grow from the looks of things.
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To start off I am a child of Broodwar hands down it is the best game I have every played. SC2 never quite did it for me even though I still follow it and try to support and play it. I just don't have much of a drive or passion for SC2 like I did for Broodwar because of the overall design of the game. Anyways...
This is what I find interesting about the launch of this Starbow Mod and the state of SC2 and Blizzard right now:
-DotA came from a SC/WC3 mod, which lead to the LoL game (currently has the most viewers on Twitch.tv).
-Now Blizzard is focusing on making that Heroes of the Storm game to try and compete with the giant LoL scene.
-From what I have been reading a lot of people want major some major changes to SC2 because of the stale game play/design and the Baseball (Day9 post) effect it has on the gameplay.
-Now the SC2 community has made Starbow because they have not gotten the drastic changes they have been wanting in HotS and they seem to like the design of it with the collaboration of Broodwar and SC2 units.
What is so interesting is that Blizzard is basically loosing to its self and the map editor they have in their games. They don't listen to the community, the community makes the game they want, this in turn has created LoL by Riot, which is I think the most popular game right now. Now blizzard is trying to compete with it by making Heroes of the Storm...
Hopefully Blizzard will see that Starbow has made some good points and that making some major changes with overall Design of SC2 would be a good thing rather than the little balance tweaks they keep doing and the stupid boring new units they added into HotS (my opinion).
I wonder if one day some new company does what Riot did with LoL from the DotA idea with SC2 and we get the true next gen space themed update to the Broodwar we all love.
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I played 2 games yesterday. Love it already!
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Would you be able to add the different micro possibilities like patrol micro as I've seen moving shot for vultures in sc2?
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On January 18 2014 02:58 JuNe-TrEe wrote:
To start off I am a child of Broodwar hands down it is the best game I have every played. SC2 never quite did it for me even though I still follow it and try to support and play it. I just don't have much of a drive or passion for SC2 like I did for Broodwar because of the overall design of the game. Anyways...
This is what I find interesting about the launch of this Starbow Mod and the state of SC2 and Blizzard right now:
-DotA came from a SC/WC3 mod, which lead to the LoL game (currently has the most viewers on Twitch.tv).
-Now Blizzard is focusing on making that Heroes of the Storm game to try and compete with the giant LoL scene.
-From what I have been reading a lot of people want major some major changes to SC2 because of the stale game play/design and the Baseball (Day9 post) effect it has on the gameplay.
-Now the SC2 community has made Starbow because they have not gotten the drastic changes they have been wanting in HotS and they seem to like the design of it with the collaboration of Broodwar and SC2 units.
What is so interesting is that Blizzard is basically loosing to its self and the map editor they have in their games. They don't listen to the community, the community makes the game they want, this in turn has created LoL by Riot, which is I think the most popular game right now. Now blizzard is trying to compete with it by making Heroes of the Storm...
Hopefully Blizzard will see that Starbow has made some good points and that making some major changes with overall Design of SC2 would be a good thing rather than the little balance tweaks they keep doing and the stupid boring new units they added into HotS (my opinion).
I wonder if one day some new company does what Riot did with LoL from the DotA idea with SC2 and we get the true next gen space themed update to the Broodwar we all love.
Every1 is still waiting for the true Broodwar successor. Because MOST of the BW fanatics/lovers dont look at SC2 as a successor to BW at all.
Some design decisions that ruined SC2 for me.
Banelings - having a unit that even when it "wins" it ends up as dead...not a fan.
Sentrys - Forcefields have gimped the protoss into having to play to the late game because for the first 20 minutes sentries are the only way to be effective. WTB zealots and dragoons.
Widow Mines - enough said.
Blizzard turned SC2 into a hardcore Rock paper scissors, with BW it was a lot more about strategy than "figure out a flavor of the month cheese/rush"
But IDK i am curious to see the future of Starbow. It would be amazing for them to pull a Riot Games, and come out with the real successor to BW.
Personally, I just find it sad that Blizzard is so out of touch with reality/its playerbase and simply refuses to address the major issues with their game, and its going to take losing their spot at the top of a genre...again. For them to realize they fucked up, and will be playing catch up again in the future (similar to what they are doing with Heroes of the Storm currently)
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I don't know, I like banelings dying in glorious victory, it's like anti-snowball prevention. (similar to broodlings spawning from destroyed buildings)
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On January 18 2014 02:35 Schroedinger wrote:
I know this might not be a high priority change, but I feel Dragoon colors should be a little bit stronger.
Would help viewers/casters and players in pvp.
Seconded.
Edit: Looking at this thread there seems to be more than one topic of conversation going on. Might be a good idea for star bow to get its own forum ? 
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Belgium9949 Posts
Is it possible to treat mines like scarabs, making them move to a mineral at the targetted unit's location and making it burrow again if the target dies before reaching it. You would have to make an unburrowed mine particle but it would get behavior more like BW I think
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Thanks for giving me a reason to play SC2 again!
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On January 18 2014 03:05 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 02:58 JuNe-TrEe wrote:
To start off I am a child of Broodwar hands down it is the best game I have every played. SC2 never quite did it for me even though I still follow it and try to support and play it. I just don't have much of a drive or passion for SC2 like I did for Broodwar because of the overall design of the game. Anyways...
This is what I find interesting about the launch of this Starbow Mod and the state of SC2 and Blizzard right now:
-DotA came from a SC/WC3 mod, which lead to the LoL game (currently has the most viewers on Twitch.tv).
-Now Blizzard is focusing on making that Heroes of the Storm game to try and compete with the giant LoL scene.
-From what I have been reading a lot of people want major some major changes to SC2 because of the stale game play/design and the Baseball (Day9 post) effect it has on the gameplay.
-Now the SC2 community has made Starbow because they have not gotten the drastic changes they have been wanting in HotS and they seem to like the design of it with the collaboration of Broodwar and SC2 units.
What is so interesting is that Blizzard is basically loosing to its self and the map editor they have in their games. They don't listen to the community, the community makes the game they want, this in turn has created LoL by Riot, which is I think the most popular game right now. Now blizzard is trying to compete with it by making Heroes of the Storm...
Hopefully Blizzard will see that Starbow has made some good points and that making some major changes with overall Design of SC2 would be a good thing rather than the little balance tweaks they keep doing and the stupid boring new units they added into HotS (my opinion).
I wonder if one day some new company does what Riot did with LoL from the DotA idea with SC2 and we get the true next gen space themed update to the Broodwar we all love. Every1 is still waiting for the true Broodwar successor. Because MOST of the BW fanatics/lovers dont look at SC2 as a successor to BW at all. Some design decisions that ruined SC2 for me. Banelings - having a unit that even when it "wins" it ends up as dead...not a fan. Sentrys - Forcefields have gimped the protoss into having to play to the late game because for the first 20 minutes sentries are the only way to be effective. WTB zealots and dragoons. Widow Mines - enough said. Blizzard turned SC2 into a hardcore Rock paper scissors, with BW it was a lot more about strategy than "figure out a flavor of the month cheese/rush" But IDK i am curious to see the future of Starbow. It would be amazing for them to pull a Riot Games, and come out with the real successor to BW. Personally, I just find it sad that Blizzard is so out of touch with reality/its playerbase and simply refuses to address the major issues with their game, and its going to take losing their spot at the top of a genre...again. For them to realize they fucked up, and will be playing catch up again in the future (similar to what they are doing with Heroes of the Storm currently) Just to clarify something, the crux of toss design issues is the warp gate. Being able to surpass movement means the units have to be weak early, but if they're weak early the player needs to have some way to either delay or control engagements. Enter the force field.
Also, how do scourge differ from banelings in that regard?
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get that beastyqt comeback to totalbiscuit stat
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On January 18 2014 02:29 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 01:46 Plansix wrote:
Riot has become a bit cut throat for my taste now a days, it's true. But such is business and they know they have to fight to be top dog. It would be better if they were smarter about it though. + Show Spoiler +Smarter about what?
They have the most popular game, and the most popular esport.
They are the smartest in the scene currently.
And Back on topic:
People have been saying this since the release of SC2... Noone followed competitive BW because it was such a casual friendly game. Only hardcore fans enjoyed/played it because there was such a high skill cap, that it was enjoyable to watch, and feel like "Wow ill never be able to do that".
With SC2 they dumbed down and removed sooooo many mechanical skills from the game, and they made a game that was too competitive for casuals, and too casual for hardcore players. They alienated both groups, which is why we are seeing the decline of SC2's competitive scene. (not going to argue the whole end of the world blahblahblah etc shit, if you are capable of ignoring plummeting stream viewer numbers and fanbase then more power to you and your ignorance).
The custom map scene is what entertained/kept casuals playing. But Bnet2.0 fucking RUINED that scene, by having the worst interface for custom game finding ever.
-*And I wont even talk about the abomination that is custom games... literally SCBW and WCIII had the GREATEST custom map/custom game scene/selection of any games put out by any developer ever... and Blizzard completely fucking RUINED the system with bnet2.0.... how they haven't reverted to original Bnet just shows how out of touch with their playerbase/with reality this developer is. Blizzard went from the best custom map scene in the world, to a custom map scene where there are only 5-10 maps being played, ever.-*
IMO they need to take SC2 back to what BW was, a game with such a high skill cap, that you can just sit and marvel at the amazing players being made by these competitive gaming geniuses.
Seriously, all they needed to do was re-skin BW and people who loved BW, would still love Sc2. And I am really curious to see more from Starbow. I admittedly haven't seen any of it yet aside from a couple minutes, but if they really want this to be a true successor to BW, I am anxious to see more, and hope to see a lot of the mechanics and strategy put back into the game.
IMO what Blizzard should have done with SC2, enable grouping of more than 12 units, and allow auto-mining. The rest was completely unnecessary, in my personal opinion, as someone who was a HUGE fan of competitive BW and has lost all interest in Competitive SC2
Everyone is allowed to have their own opinion and should have, but I'm getting a little tired of calling out the same damn "SC2 low skill cap"-bullshit time and again. The word you're looking for isn't "skill cap", no one is close to that - no one was close in BW and no one is even remotely close in Starcraft 2. It's fine if you don't like the game, but gross oversimplifications like "X ruined the game" help no one. RTS games aren't popular among anyone. It doesn't matter how hard or how easy you make it, an RTS will never be as popular as Call of Duty or League of Legends unless someone manages to redefine the entire genre. Re-skinning BW and releasing a game with an interface that is 15 years outdated and mechanics that are more likely to scare people off than make them fall in love with the game.
Further, the idea that SC2 is some grand-scale version of rock-paper-scissors is also incredibly stupid and biased. People don't achieve 75-80% win rates over months-long periods in rock paper scissors.
After all, why do you think SC2 became so big internationally (spawning an entire (serious, I might add) international competitive scene where BW couldn't)?
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On January 18 2014 03:27 RaGe wrote:
Is it possible to treat mines like scarabs, making them move to a mineral at the targetted unit's location and making it burrow again if the target dies before reaching it. You would have to make an unburrowed mine particle but it would get behavior more like BW I think
the mines from the vultures on the campaign already act like that...
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Every1 is still waiting for the true Broodwar successor. Because MOST of the BW fanatics/lovers dont look at SC2 as a successor to BW at all.
Some design decisions that ruined SC2 for me.
Banelings - having a unit that even when it "wins" it ends up as dead...not a fan.
Sentrys - Forcefields have gimped the protoss into having to play to the late game because for the first 20 minutes sentries are the only way to be effective. WTB zealots and dragoons.
Widow Mines - enough said.
Blizzard turned SC2 into a hardcore Rock paper scissors, with BW it was a lot more about strategy than "figure out a flavor of the month cheese/rush"
But IDK i am curious to see the future of Starbow. It would be amazing for them to pull a Riot Games, and come out with the real successor to BW.
Personally, I just find it sad that Blizzard is so out of touch with reality/its playerbase and simply refuses to address the major issues with their game, and its going to take losing their spot at the top of a genre...again. For them to realize they fucked up, and will be playing catch up again in the future (similar to what they are doing with Heroes of the Storm currently)
Yes I agree, I always felt like I had a chance in BW games because of the micro (I remember so many crazy come backs and games from the good ol' days). In SC2 it is that rock paper scissors type of game play that bugs me. I have only been reading about and watching Starbow, but I can't wait to try it this weekend. Yeah I would hate for that to happen again because I love Starcraft and the units/universe. However it is looking like blizzard doesn't really care so much right now with the team disbanded and them focusing on trying to compete with the spawn of the user made mod from their game that is now LoL. But we got 2.1 coming so that should be interesting hehe...
I would just love to know what the higher ups at Blizzard are actually thinking about the future of the company and their IPs all we can do is speculate...
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EPT
