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On January 17 2014 07:28 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 07:22 SCST wrote:On January 17 2014 07:10 xPliCt wrote:On January 17 2014 06:59 BlueLanterna wrote:
Does anyone else find it fascinating that Starbow has suddenly blown up? Is this because people are just overall too frustrated with vanilla HOTS? (not to diminish the work of the creators, it is very awesome looking in it's own right) Remeber HOTS release? Nearly everyone was praising it... people just want something new... give starbow a year and as much screentime as hots and you will see the same comments... this is just this communitys attitude... I recall tons of people being very critical of HoTS when it released . . . Also, it's quite interesting to watch Idra on stream play Crank and figure out new strategies and balance necessities etc . . . The truth is, we won't know how Starbow really plays out until it's been tested by pro-players for a little bit. The best thing that could happen is more pro's trying it out and more tournaments putting up money to make balancing the game worthwhile. I don't remember any "ton of people" being critical of it and the communty seemed pretty excited about it. But it's almost a year later and people want the game to be spiced up. This is where dota has it right. They shake up the meta game at least one a year to keep thing fresh. LoL too. It keeps people comming back. SC2 need to be less precious about balance and just spice stuff up. No one cares about 50/50 win rates if the game has gotten stale.
I'd say the community's feelings for a ground based brood lord wasn't too positive and we also got the Warhound removed from the game so I would say a lot of people were critical of the game.
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On January 17 2014 07:38 [17]Purple wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 07:28 Plansix wrote:On January 17 2014 07:22 SCST wrote:On January 17 2014 07:10 xPliCt wrote:On January 17 2014 06:59 BlueLanterna wrote:
Does anyone else find it fascinating that Starbow has suddenly blown up? Is this because people are just overall too frustrated with vanilla HOTS? (not to diminish the work of the creators, it is very awesome looking in it's own right) Remeber HOTS release? Nearly everyone was praising it... people just want something new... give starbow a year and as much screentime as hots and you will see the same comments... this is just this communitys attitude... I recall tons of people being very critical of HoTS when it released . . . Also, it's quite interesting to watch Idra on stream play Crank and figure out new strategies and balance necessities etc . . . The truth is, we won't know how Starbow really plays out until it's been tested by pro-players for a little bit. The best thing that could happen is more pro's trying it out and more tournaments putting up money to make balancing the game worthwhile. I don't remember any "ton of people" being critical of it and the communty seemed pretty excited about it. But it's almost a year later and people want the game to be spiced up. This is where dota has it right. They shake up the meta game at least one a year to keep thing fresh. LoL too. It keeps people comming back. SC2 need to be less precious about balance and just spice stuff up. No one cares about 50/50 win rates if the game has gotten stale. I'd say the community's feelings for a ground based brood lord wasn't too positive and we also got the Warhound removed from the game so I would say a lot of people were critical of the game.
Yes I remember a shit-load of people complaining about the Warhound, swarmhost and not fixing Protoss/Sentry/Colossus
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4713 Posts
On January 17 2014 07:40 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 07:38 [17]Purple wrote:On January 17 2014 07:28 Plansix wrote:On January 17 2014 07:22 SCST wrote:On January 17 2014 07:10 xPliCt wrote:On January 17 2014 06:59 BlueLanterna wrote:
Does anyone else find it fascinating that Starbow has suddenly blown up? Is this because people are just overall too frustrated with vanilla HOTS? (not to diminish the work of the creators, it is very awesome looking in it's own right) Remeber HOTS release? Nearly everyone was praising it... people just want something new... give starbow a year and as much screentime as hots and you will see the same comments... this is just this communitys attitude... I recall tons of people being very critical of HoTS when it released . . . Also, it's quite interesting to watch Idra on stream play Crank and figure out new strategies and balance necessities etc . . . The truth is, we won't know how Starbow really plays out until it's been tested by pro-players for a little bit. The best thing that could happen is more pro's trying it out and more tournaments putting up money to make balancing the game worthwhile. I don't remember any "ton of people" being critical of it and the communty seemed pretty excited about it. But it's almost a year later and people want the game to be spiced up. This is where dota has it right. They shake up the meta game at least one a year to keep thing fresh. LoL too. It keeps people comming back. SC2 need to be less precious about balance and just spice stuff up. No one cares about 50/50 win rates if the game has gotten stale. I'd say the community's feelings for a ground based brood lord wasn't too positive and we also got the Warhound removed from the game so I would say a lot of people were critical of the game. Yes I remember a shit-load of people complaining about the Warhound, swarmhost and not fixing Protoss/Sentry/Colossus
There where a lot of concerns as well regarding Hellbats, Widow Mines and Turbovacs. Remember back then Hellbats took only 2 cargo supply each not the 4 they do now. We thought hellbats where too strong, they costed 100 minerals and where beefy but also super strong vs light, they changed the cone sizes and damage several times. WM was almost universally considered broken by zergs. Medivac speed was supposed to break PvT etc.
And yes also tons of QQ because they didn't at all address Warp Gate mechanics, FF and Colossus.
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I feel like hydras do a bit too much damage. Maybe it's only like that because they're easier to "handle" like they don't have the slight delay to attack, relative to BW. I mean let 5 hydras fight 5 dragoons and compare it to bw, you will see what I mean.
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So I just had an idea with the reavers. What if in addition to them being able to target units, they have an attack ground ability so they can shoot at a target location and try to aim it at units that would get there.
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Not too sold on banelings in SB tbh. Zerg has pretty good ground based AOE already with the lurkers, between that and lings that actually do damage, I'm not sure if they are needed. I'm a little concerned that the huge amount of ground AOE could phase out bio and SK terran from ZvT.
Maybe buff lurkers a bit since they seem to have it a little rough and just scrap banes altogether?
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On January 17 2014 07:35 darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 07:31 Beef Noodles wrote:On January 17 2014 07:21 darkness wrote:IdrA really shows what was wrong in the PvT match-up in BW. It's too damn boring in late game. 1) Terran sits 20+ minutes in his base, possibly just hellion vulture harassment 2) Protoss recalls and recalls which seems inefficient but eventually wears down the Terran I can't say it is exciting for both players and viewers. It makes up for a long and boring game. See, BW isn't perfect in everything.  Sure you can switch to carriers, but this still doesn't make the game quicker because 0-0 carriers vs 2-2 or 3-3 mech is bad, so you need to wait for some upgrades. I love BW PvT. It sucks when the terran just turtles then all ins, but if the terran turtles then tries to take a 4th and 5th, they are some of the best games to watch. I love watchings waves of toss crash against siege lines Have you played Protoss in BW or StarBow PvT? I have (in BW), it's very exhausting and boring.
Exhausting? Sure. Boring? No freaking way!
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Also the vulture mines very rarely hit because of better AI. I miss mine drags! 
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On January 17 2014 08:10 fmod wrote:Also the vulture mines very rarely hit because of better AI. I miss mine drags!
Yes, the spider mines in starbow seems a bit off. Also I miss the sound they make when they run towards a unit.
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I enjoy watching starbow streams. And so far to me it seems that widow mines actually don't do anything at all. They were so cool in BW. Also slow hydras maybe too slow, and are tanks worse against dragoons? They seemed better in BW, but either way it doesn't matter if it will be balanced.
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On January 17 2014 08:17 Tuczniak wrote:
I enjoy watching starbow streams. And so far to me it seems that widow mines actually don't do anything at all. They were so cool in BW. Also slow hydras maybe too slow, and are tanks worse against dragoons? They seemed better in BW, but either way it doesn't matter if it will be balanced.
You need to manually target fire them (Press "e" and click on target). They are better than in BW if you do that. If you don't do that, they are indeed a bit worse.
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Yeah just saw the TvP late game with Idra vs TTOne on stream and it was anything but boring. It was highly entertaining to watch.
Carriers are amazingly fun and very viable apparently. Idra also though he had lost the game after losing a major engagement in the beginning but ended up winning due to the ability to recover better in Starbow.
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^Thats actually a very good dynamic. We cant basically know how good mines currently are until people with good APM play a few hundred games.
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On January 17 2014 08:20 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 08:17 Tuczniak wrote:
I enjoy watching starbow streams. And so far to me it seems that widow mines actually don't do anything at all. They were so cool in BW. Also slow hydras maybe too slow, and are tanks worse against dragoons? They seemed better in BW, but either way it doesn't matter if it will be balanced. You need to manually target fire them (Press "e" and click on target). They are better than in BW if you do that. If you don't do that, they are indeed a bit worse.
I dont get that are you suppost to individually click each one of your like 10+ mines in battle and then click the target you want that one mine to hit? No human is going to be able to do that. Unless you devote all your battle micro clicking on mines but that seems really stupid as well.
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^Well the opponent is supposed to have a chance at fighting too....
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On January 17 2014 06:49 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 06:40 aZealot wrote:On January 17 2014 05:29 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 17 2014 05:10 aZealot wrote:On January 17 2014 04:30 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On January 17 2014 04:23 Plansix wrote:
I will take it over other RTS games I have played. Dawn of War and company of heroes were a nightmare if your units started fucking with eachothers pathfinding. Even Rise of Nations degraded into blob nonsense. And don't get me started on the total war games.
Every time I come back to SC2, I think "ahhhh, units that do what I tell them." Yeah, frankly I can't understand why people want to go back to a more Brood War style of unit movement. SC2 unit movement is just so crisp and clean. I've played all those other games you've mentioned and I don't even really bother trying to control units individually, there's no point. More to the point, I don't think it is good for SB and the developers' time to mess around with that at this stage of the game. It is the Beta, and it is starting to get significant attention. Playing around with units and statistics and upgrades etc is all good at this stage. But, messing around with a core aspect of the game like unit clumping and pathing is not, IMO. Not this again. People relearned the game from scratch at least once for sbow already, they'll relearn it again if they have to/ the mod is worth it. Many already have. This isn't the first iteration of bow. This mod isn't about to start making its creators money. There is absolutely nothing at stake. Nothing prevents them from making sweeping changes except for the feeling that they've already almost nailed it (and I don't think they should feel that comfortable yet; we're still in the honeymoon phase) You may be right. But, it sounds to me that a change which affects all units' movement and clumping would affect everything else, no? Such as unit statistics (especially AOE effects). If it does not, and it is minor, I stand corrected. My point is that for all of SC everyone has their own personal vision for how they want the game to be. Unit clumping and pathing is one of those which a few people go on about all the time, and whose importance may be exaggerated or too difficult to implement. If the Devs are happy with it thus far, they should ignore people, imo, and leave it alone. Most people seem to be happy with the SB pathing and clumping anyway. I'm actually against tweaking pathing to make it less like Sc2 than it already is. It's just the idea of this mod settling that bothers me. Half of the mod's raison d'etre is to prove that change can be fantastic for the game. If you then start to settle for what you have for fear of losing what works, that's precious little from what Blizzard is doing.
Ah, I see where you are coming from, mate. Fair enough.
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On January 17 2014 08:26 NukeD wrote:
^Well the opponent is supposed to have a chance at fighting too....
Obviously it needs to be balanced but right now they dont even seem to go off in battle which is way too weak. They need to have an impact or they should just be removed.
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what is making this mod explode in popularity that didn't make SC2BW?
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On January 17 2014 08:30 crms wrote:
what is making this mod explode in popularity that didn't make SC2BW?
for one thing it might be just hype. Shit went viral. Otherwise it's a different thing than bw, so it's new and thefore more exciting.
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On January 17 2014 08:30 crms wrote:
what is making this mod explode in popularity that didn't make SC2BW?
Totalbiscuit and husky both did casts on it.
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EPT
