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On January 16 2014 22:04 NukeD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2014 22:01 NapkinBox wrote:On January 16 2014 21:44 SinCitta wrote:On January 16 2014 21:42 TaShadan wrote:On January 16 2014 21:40 FrozenProbe wrote:On January 16 2014 21:30 Integra wrote:I doubt it, and not because the MOD is bad, it looks totally badass right now actually. Problem is that Blizzard have done allot of bad decisions lately. Most likley the devs would have a better chance just doing a standalone like DOTA/War3  They can't do a standalone, every unit is a blizzard concept... They can do a standalone but they would need a new engine, models etc. In other words, they can't do a standalone. Then there's that one game company that loves modders. Bethesda?
No its EA!
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On January 16 2014 21:20 Ahli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2014 20:59 Orek wrote:On January 16 2014 20:01 Ahli wrote:On January 16 2014 19:00 Orek wrote:On January 16 2014 18:45 Ahli wrote:On January 16 2014 17:21 5sd wrote:
Is there any way to change the lurker unburrow hotkey? I'm really not used to it being E. Already has been fixed for the next update. I'm just currently trying to fix bugs in the high ground mechanic. On January 16 2014 18:35 Orek wrote:
Wouldn't 100% chance to hit but dealing 50% damage more fair? That way, we don't have to rely on random number generater while giving high ground advantage. One thing I hated about BW was this randomness. Technically, the units that miss deal 0.5 damage right now. So, that would be as easy as changing a number. A real miss chance would require massive changes to every weapon in the game making it difficult to understand, test, debug and add new stuff. A perfect miss chance might be implemented some day, though. But just not now. Btw, you were/are playing with a buggy implementation right now. :D A few weapons ignoring the high ground mechanic and a few units miss multiple consecutive shots. A better implementation with hopefully no problems remaining with come live today, afaIk. Basically, I just need to find a solution for one situation where units deal full damage when they should miss. Does it mean that low ground units never miss shots twice in a row? Or if you are really unlucky, units actally miss a million shots in a row? I think BW was the latter. 1. Marine prepares to use its weapon 2. Trigger executes which results in a debuff added to the Marine, if it determines that it should miss. The Debuff has a duration of 1.5 and reduces the ranged damage type to 0.5 damage. 3. Marine deals 0.5 damage at target 4. Marine prepares to use its weapon 5. Trigger starts, now it determines that the unit should hit 6. Marine deals 0.5 damage as the debuff is still on the unit This and a few other problems have been resolved. I've fixed the system to work fine in every situation in the game. I will post a changelog in case Kabel doesn't post one somewhere. The chance to miss is 50%. There is nothing added to it that alters the chance when a unit missed consecutively. So, when a unit is unlucky, it can shoot a few times up a cliff and never deal more than 0.5 damage. Also, is it actually possible to make something like IF target is on equal or lower ground, then deal normal damage IF target is on higher ground, then deal half of normal damage ,where normal damage = attack value - armor value, and the chance to hit is always 100%. That's what I originally meant as ideal solution if programming it isn't that difficult. No. Half damage is possible, but you can't make it reduce the armor before halving the damage. Armor is always reduced last as seen on SC2's Immortal receiving a max of 9/8/7 damage with each shield upgrade. Halving the raw damage input is easily doable, but you can't change how armor works in this game. So, you can't easily recreate the exact way damage was handled in Broodwar without triggering every damage effect in the game. But that might cause a lot of lags and forces overkills as triggers adds a delay of 0.0625 game seconds as they don't run instantly (which actually comes closer to Broodwar). As a reminder, in Broodwar, armor was reduced before the damage was scaled. For example, 4 armor would result in 1 less damage received when a Broodwar Ghost hits an Ultralisk (concussive damage vs large unit).
Thank you for the detailed reply again. It's my turn to contribute to starbow a bit.
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[G] ~8% faster gas mining
I've done a similar research on Starbow mod maps.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vqtQQBb.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YRis8Q9.png)
Normal SC2: 4 gas mined per trip, 2500 total gas
Starbow Mod: 8 gas mined per trip, 5000 total gas (until it depeletes)
So, theoretically, inefficiency should be the same, but they differ for some reason. As you can see, this gas inefficiency problem is much bigger in starbow mod. Even worse, there is only 1 vespene geyser per base in starbow instead of 2 in normal SC2. Therefore, players can't actively avoid inefficient gas if they spawn at worse locations.
For example, according to my research,
Circuit Breaker
on 1 base:
Top-right spawning location mines 6.7% faster than top-left spawning location.
on 2 bases:
Top-right spawning location mines 5.9% faster than top-left spawning location.
and
on 2 bases:
Both spawning locations on Bloody Ridge mine 13.3% faster than top-left spawning location on Circuit Breaker.
Top-right players' winrate would be higher than top-left players' on Circuit Breaker. A certain build executed on Bloody Ridge may not be possible on Circuit Breaker due to significantly slower gas mining rate. I think something needs to be done about it. Currently, starbow is far worse than normal SC2 in this field.
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On January 16 2014 20:02 TaShadan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2014 20:01 NukeD wrote:
Am I the only one feeling like the pathing change while definitelly an improvement is still not enough? Units still clump up in places they shouldnt and it doesnt look very organic. Yes, but i doubt it can be done better. The sc2 engine is crap.
By which you mean "crap if one wants to recreate BW" or "crap generally"? ;P
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@Maps
Some maps needs 4workers to mine gas instead of 4.
That could be a problem with your graph , maybe(?)
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On January 16 2014 23:08 Ufnal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2014 20:02 TaShadan wrote:On January 16 2014 20:01 NukeD wrote:
Am I the only one feeling like the pathing change while definitelly an improvement is still not enough? Units still clump up in places they shouldnt and it doesnt look very organic. Yes, but i doubt it can be done better. The sc2 engine is crap. By which you mean "crap if one wants to recreate BW" or "crap generally"? ;P
Definitely generally.
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The chances for Starbow to get anywhere are probably related to how much people actually like the mod, and how much people are using it as a chance to bitch about sc2. If it's the latter then it's probably not going to make it very far.
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On January 16 2014 23:57 Heartland wrote:
The chances for Starbow to get anywhere are probably related to how much people actually like the mod, and how much people are using it as a chance to bitch about sc2. If it's the latter then it's probably not going to make it very far.
Agreed. The mod needs to stand on it's own, rather the be a place where people can just take shots at SC2 because they know they are in front of a friendly audience that will agree with them.
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The thing that needs to be done about the vespene geyser inefficiency is to fix the maps, or to find a way to fix the footprint of the vespene geysers (data), the maps have other problems such as imba cannon spots behind the mineral lines, but this could lead to interesting games (gases & cannon spots) even while being well imba, so i don't know if you guys want me to fix them (i had offered myself to december but it seems that he forgot maybe with all the stuff that's going on).
//EDIT// I forgot, we know that when patch 2.1 arrives starbow will start to being used in maps that are not meant to be played with starbow, for this we need a solution, maybe using triggers placed by the maker of the map to delete one vespene geyser if the starbow mod is being applied to the map could work nicely, same with mineral lines and xel'nagas, sadly i'm not well spoken in the land of triggers, so other mapper or SB developer would need to create those triggers.
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We need a place to discuss strategies/build orders, more than anything else. 
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On January 17 2014 00:10 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2014 23:57 Heartland wrote:
The chances for Starbow to get anywhere are probably related to how much people actually like the mod, and how much people are using it as a chance to bitch about sc2. If it's the latter then it's probably not going to make it very far. Agreed. The mod needs to stand on it's own, rather the be a place where people can just take shots at SC2 because they know they are in front of a friendly audience that will agree with them.
How do you like the mod so far?
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On January 17 2014 00:20 Big J wrote:We need a place to discuss strategies/build orders, more than anything else.
Reddit has a subforum for Starbow. Probably a good place to discuss strategies for Starbow.
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Are you going to change the Dragoon so it attacks like how the BW dragoon did? When I played the map, I just amoved them lol.
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On January 17 2014 00:46 NukeD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 00:10 Plansix wrote:On January 16 2014 23:57 Heartland wrote:
The chances for Starbow to get anywhere are probably related to how much people actually like the mod, and how much people are using it as a chance to bitch about sc2. If it's the latter then it's probably not going to make it very far. Agreed. The mod needs to stand on it's own, rather the be a place where people can just take shots at SC2 because they know they are in front of a friendly audience that will agree with them. How do you like the mod so far?
It's good so far. Science vessels are pretty dumb when it shits all over your army with unremovable AOE damage and some of the anti air units are a little lack luster. But their is room to grow. Early scouting seems a bit rough for Protoss too.
But this is just and friend and I fucking around. Still, i don't like that science vessel.
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On January 17 2014 00:19 Uvantak wrote:
The thing that needs to be done about the vespene geyser inefficiency is to fix the maps, or to find a way to fix the footprint of the vespene geysers (data), the maps have other problems such as imba cannon spots behind the mineral lines, but this could lead to interesting games (gases & cannon spots) even while being well imba, so i don't know if you guys want me to fix them (i had offered myself to december but it seems that he forgot maybe with all the stuff that's going on).
//EDIT// I forgot, we know that when patch 2.1 arrives starbow will start to being used in maps that are not meant to be played with starbow, for this we need a solution, maybe using triggers placed by the maker of the map to delete one vespene geyser if the starbow mod is being applied to the map could work nicely, same with mineral lines and xel'nagas, sadly i'm not well spoken in the land of triggers, so other mapper or SB developer would need to create those triggers.
Starbow maps have different requirements and since there is no lack of suitable maps (at least 7 that are available on the arcade?) I don't think it's necessary to create a procedural way to turn ladder maps into starbow maps. If there really was a market for such things then it's pretty easy to create starbow versions of the maps anyway.
On January 17 2014 00:48 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 00:20 Big J wrote:We need a place to discuss strategies/build orders, more than anything else. Reddit has a subforum for Starbow. Probably a good place to discuss strategies for Starbow.
Is there a Starbow twitter? I was thinking that you should have a place to remind people of all official things such as known personalities streaming starbow, tournaments, show matches, new patches, and so on.
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On January 17 2014 00:54 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 00:46 NukeD wrote:On January 17 2014 00:10 Plansix wrote:On January 16 2014 23:57 Heartland wrote:
The chances for Starbow to get anywhere are probably related to how much people actually like the mod, and how much people are using it as a chance to !@#$%^&* about sc2. If it's the latter then it's probably not going to make it very far. Agreed. The mod needs to stand on it's own, rather the be a place where people can just take shots at SC2 because they know they are in front of a friendly audience that will agree with them. How do you like the mod so far? It's good so far. Science vessels are pretty dumb when it shits all over your army with unremovable AOE damage and some of the anti air units are a little lack luster. But their is room to grow. Early scouting seems a bit rough for Protoss too. But this is just and friend and I fucking around. Still, i don't like that science vessel.
I guess your thinking about the Viking (weakest AA). While its not supposed to be that cost effective in engagements due to its mobility, it is indeed a bit too weak atm. We are also looking into Irradiate, which at the moment feels a bit too dominant.
Is there a Starbow twitter? I was thinking that you should have a place to remind people of all official things such as known personalities streaming starbow, tournaments, show matches, new patches, and so on.
Yes I discussed that exact thing with Kabel yesterday (or was it tuesday). Both of us are twitter-noobs, so maybe we should hire a PR-guy to take care of that.
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On January 17 2014 00:58 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 00:54 Plansix wrote:On January 17 2014 00:46 NukeD wrote:On January 17 2014 00:10 Plansix wrote:On January 16 2014 23:57 Heartland wrote:
The chances for Starbow to get anywhere are probably related to how much people actually like the mod, and how much people are using it as a chance to !@#$%^&* about sc2. If it's the latter then it's probably not going to make it very far. Agreed. The mod needs to stand on it's own, rather the be a place where people can just take shots at SC2 because they know they are in front of a friendly audience that will agree with them. How do you like the mod so far? It's good so far. Science vessels are pretty dumb when it shits all over your army with unremovable AOE damage and some of the anti air units are a little lack luster. But their is room to grow. Early scouting seems a bit rough for Protoss too. But this is just and friend and I fucking around. Still, i don't like that science vessel. I guess your thinking about the Viking (weakest AA). While its not supposed to be that cost effective in engagements due to its mobility, it is indeed a bit too weak atm. We are also looking into Irradiate, which at the moment feels a bit too dominant.
Is irradiate just identical to its BW counterpart?
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On January 17 2014 01:00 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 00:58 Hider wrote:On January 17 2014 00:54 Plansix wrote:On January 17 2014 00:46 NukeD wrote:On January 17 2014 00:10 Plansix wrote:On January 16 2014 23:57 Heartland wrote:
The chances for Starbow to get anywhere are probably related to how much people actually like the mod, and how much people are using it as a chance to !@#$%^&* about sc2. If it's the latter then it's probably not going to make it very far. Agreed. The mod needs to stand on it's own, rather the be a place where people can just take shots at SC2 because they know they are in front of a friendly audience that will agree with them. How do you like the mod so far? It's good so far. Science vessels are pretty dumb when it shits all over your army with unremovable AOE damage and some of the anti air units are a little lack luster. But their is room to grow. Early scouting seems a bit rough for Protoss too. But this is just and friend and I fucking around. Still, i don't like that science vessel. I guess your thinking about the Viking (weakest AA). While its not supposed to be that cost effective in engagements due to its mobility, it is indeed a bit too weak atm. We are also looking into Irradiate, which at the moment feels a bit too dominant. Is irradiate just identical to its BW counterpart?
From what I can tell, yes. Except that it has auto cast, no noticable cool down and kills stuff really fast. Also, battles are more compact than in BW, so it just fucks up any units that are in a tight space.
In general a single target ability that can do massive damage and can't be removed or dodged is pretty bad design. It comes down to if the unit got in range or not.
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On January 17 2014 01:00 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 00:58 Hider wrote:On January 17 2014 00:54 Plansix wrote:On January 17 2014 00:46 NukeD wrote:On January 17 2014 00:10 Plansix wrote:On January 16 2014 23:57 Heartland wrote:
The chances for Starbow to get anywhere are probably related to how much people actually like the mod, and how much people are using it as a chance to !@#$%^&* about sc2. If it's the latter then it's probably not going to make it very far. Agreed. The mod needs to stand on it's own, rather the be a place where people can just take shots at SC2 because they know they are in front of a friendly audience that will agree with them. How do you like the mod so far? It's good so far. Science vessels are pretty dumb when it shits all over your army with unremovable AOE damage and some of the anti air units are a little lack luster. But their is room to grow. Early scouting seems a bit rough for Protoss too. But this is just and friend and I fucking around. Still, i don't like that science vessel. I guess your thinking about the Viking (weakest AA). While its not supposed to be that cost effective in engagements due to its mobility, it is indeed a bit too weak atm. We are also looking into Irradiate, which at the moment feels a bit too dominant. Is irradiate just identical to its BW counterpart?
30 damage less, and SV is 3 supply which should make mass SV late late game a bit less efficient.
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@Hider, does irradiate splash stack? It seems like it does. It did in BW, but that may be too strong for smartcast. That may be a good point of change. I'd prefer just no smartcast, though.
Also, air-ground and ground-air splash damage?
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EPT
