EPTStarbow - Page 218
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Hider
Denmark9407 Posts
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CannonsNCarriers
United States638 Posts
Anyone else running ghosts in TvPs? | ||
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Piy
Scotland3152 Posts
On February 24 2014 09:28 CannonsNCarriers wrote: So I haven't played that many TvPs, but a 2 base bio push with lots of ghosts feels beastly strong. My micro is not that great, but it feels devastating against a P that goes 2 base robo. The ghosts give you a way to slow down and kill the initial dragoon contain. Ghost stun also provides a deadly counter to reaver drops (finally a way to make them stop shooting). In a big fight, ghost stun and seeker missile scales well. Anyone else running ghosts in TvPs? Seeker missiles aren't a big problem in the mu, but ghosts are imo too effective of a counter to reavers. They give Protoss very few options vs early bio push and remove a great deal of micro from the game, since shock completely negates shuttle reaver. I think used defensively ghosts aren't a major problem, but I would advocate making the speed of the projectile a little slower on shock, to retain its utility vs clumped protoss units and tanks, but prevent it from instantly shutting down reavers. I don't think it's a major problem that reavers are good vs bio and can kite them with a speed shuttle. | ||
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rebuffering
Canada2436 Posts
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Season
United States301 Posts
It's use along with calling down SCVs in TvT vs mech (tanks) is very strong in both limiting tank numbers and/or forcing unsieges while not really costing much for the user. It also leaves little options for the opposing player to defend against it. I think it has been mentioned somewhere before, but just my thoughts on it~ | ||
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Sikian
Spain177 Posts
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coZy
United States65 Posts
On February 24 2014 16:35 Sikian wrote: Yesterday I played with a HotS Gold guy through matchmaking (I'm HotS Gold as well) and he really struggled to get any macro and expansions going. We played some more practice games to identify the problems he was having, but after 4 games of trying, he just quit as he was utterly frustrated with how difficult it -- at least compared to HotS. Has anyone got any advice or similar for players that are struggling this way and/or have the feeling of starting to learn a whole RTS from the beginning? I mean I had played some SC2 previously, only WoL though, was high Platinum when I played. Never played BW at all. I think it really depends on the mindset the person has, to be honest. I really wanted to know/learn how to play this game because it seemed like so much fun, so I played games over and over until I started to get a feel for the mechanics and just game sense in general. I lost sooo many games at first, didn't win a single one for like a week. He might just need to face versus an AI and learn how the mechanics feel now as well as how the units interact. But yeah, I think it's mainly just a mindset thing, gotta have the drive to learn. | ||
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2581 Posts
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
One big difference in playing Zerg between this and Sc2 is in how we use Queens to inject. In Starbow you use up a round of larva to make units and then inject all hatches while in Sc2 you do that every 40s or so. My muscle memory is just not used to doing it Starbow way. | ||
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Daumen
Germany1073 Posts
On February 24 2014 18:58 -Archangel- wrote: I finally played my first games of Starbow. Lost 3, won 2 and never felt like I lost unfairly (a feeling that made me quit Sc2 a long time ago). No stupid sentry or collosus in this game, thank god. One big difference in playing Zerg between this and Sc2 is in how we use Queens to inject. In Starbow you use up a round of larva to make units and then inject all hatches while in Sc2 you do that every 40s or so. My muscle memory is just not used to doing it Starbow way. I think the Macro is very different for all races, I remember very clearly that I also had a very weird feeling because my musle memory was used to sc2. Im Terran and I am mostly talking about Mules and Overcharge, you used to have way more Minerals compared to gas in WoL/HotS and no Chronoboost abillity, now you do (overcharge). Its very different but as a Terran, it is way more fun to Macro in Starbow. Overcharge is a really cool abillity ;D Do you think the Starbow Inject is more "fun" or the HotS one? Or is both equally fun to play? | ||
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Sikian
Spain177 Posts
On February 24 2014 19:02 Daumen wrote: I think the Macro is very different for all races, I remember very clearly that I also had a very weird feeling because my musle memory was used to sc2. Im Terran and I am mostly talking about Mules and Overcharge, you used to have way more Minerals compared to gas in WoL/HotS and no Chronoboost abillity, now you do (overcharge). Its very different but as a Terran, it is way more fun to Macro in Starbow. Overcharge is a really cool abillity ;D Do you think the Starbow Inject is more "fun" or the HotS one? Or is both equally fun to play? Personally, I've enjoyed the Queen a bit more in SB than in HotS, as you have to be constantly paying attention to it. Anyways, I always do this stupid thing of injecting on more hatches than I have queens and there's always one of them waddling across half the map to reach that damned macro hatch. How have you guys been injecting to avoid this kind of stuff happening? EDIT: Thanks for the feedback, I hope it helps to keep other players motivated  | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
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itsMAHVELbaybee
292 Posts
On February 24 2014 19:02 Daumen wrote: I think the Macro is very different for all races, I remember very clearly that I also had a very weird feeling because my musle memory was used to sc2. Im Terran and I am mostly talking about Mules and Overcharge, you used to have way more Minerals compared to gas in WoL/HotS and no Chronoboost abillity, now you do (overcharge). Its very different but as a Terran, it is way more fun to Macro in Starbow. Overcharge is a really cool abillity ;D Do you think the Starbow Inject is more "fun" or the HotS one? Or is both equally fun to play? Terran armies tend to be more mineral focused, even when going factory heavy mech armies. The only matchup where the gas really matters is TvZ, where you need to make sure you have the gas to support upgrades and vessel production. Macro mechanics need to be adjusted for all stages of gameplay. Otherwise you end up with 200/200 food issues, with mule abuse and zergs who get to float 80 larva. | ||
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Sikian
Spain177 Posts
On February 24 2014 19:56 Grumbels wrote: Starbow macro isn't too hard, you just have to get used to building a few more production facilities and so on. Maybe it's a useful tip for the loading screen: if you have excess money, build more production facilities. It's one of these things that should be obvious, but since people never think while playing they don't notice it. That feels kind of true, as you need more production facilities that on HotS and WoL and maybe people are used to an amount of facilities per base which does not adjust to SB macro and economy. Or maybe I've got a terrible macro, hahaha. | ||
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On February 24 2014 19:02 Daumen wrote: I think the Macro is very different for all races, I remember very clearly that I also had a very weird feeling because my musle memory was used to sc2. Im Terran and I am mostly talking about Mules and Overcharge, you used to have way more Minerals compared to gas in WoL/HotS and no Chronoboost abillity, now you do (overcharge). Its very different but as a Terran, it is way more fun to Macro in Starbow. Overcharge is a really cool abillity ;D Do you think the Starbow Inject is more "fun" or the HotS one? Or is both equally fun to play? I have not played enough games, but I think inject is easier in Starbow as a result of this. At the same time, it is less powerful so I think it is good this way. As a total result, it is probably more fun. I hated inject in SC2 for a long time until I got used to it, and never still liked it. Always considered it a necessary evil, but Starbow might have found a better way. | ||
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knOxStarcraft
Canada422 Posts
Edit: I do spam at the start of the game so the apm numbers are a bit inflated but generally remain the same in long games. | ||
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LaLuSh
Sweden2358 Posts
Just add a bunch of hatcheries and it's more or less the same as SC2 difficulty. On 4-5 bases you should like literally have 3 hatches in the main and 2 hatches on each of the other bases. If you're below 10 hatcheries on 5 bases, you're doing it wrong. 12-13 hatches for 5 base econ is a good number. It's not so much about difficulty as it is about getting used to adding more production buildings at the right time. It's harder to re-max with a bank, sure, I give you that. But that doesn't mean there's more mechanical strain than in SC2. Like what can you do in Starbow to remedy floating 5000 minerals that's so mechanically straining? Even perfect injects will have a hard time helping you get rid of that bank immediately. You just add more hatcheries. There ain't more to it. You float minerals because the design is different. Not because it's significantly more demanding mechanically. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On February 25 2014 00:02 LaLuSh wrote: You're exaggerating about the macro aspect. Just add a bunch of hatcheries and it's more or less the same as SC2 difficulty. On 4-5 bases you should like literally have 3 hatches in the main and 2 hatches on each of the other bases. If you're below 10 hatcheries on 5 bases, you're doing it wrong. 12-13 hatches for 5 base econ is a good number. It's not so much about difficulty as it is about getting used to adding more production buildings at the right time. It's harder to re-max with a bank, sure, I give you that. But that doesn't mean there's more mechanical strain than in SC2. Like what can you do in Starbow to remedy floating 5000 minerals that's so mechanically straining? Even perfect injects will have a hard time helping you get rid of that bank immediately. You just add more hatcheries. There ain't more to it. Are you playing starbow a lot or just flirting with it? I've always liked your balance/design threads in the past. | ||
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Jermman
Canada174 Posts
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