EPTStarbow - Page 126
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Agh
United States1021 Posts
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CannonsNCarriers
United States638 Posts
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JonIrenicus
Italy602 Posts
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Koz
Brazil13 Posts
On January 25 2014 03:08 StarscreamG1 wrote: Do not patch the game like blizzard!! Stop it please, go back with that last patch  The irradiate huge change it doesn't make any sense so soon... Let the players give the answers.+1. C'mom the game has a lot of options. Let people figure it out the solutions. If necessary change maps. Stop patching the game like blizzard and Dustin Bowder. | ||
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TheButtonmen
Canada1403 Posts
On January 25 2014 06:12 Survivor61316 wrote: How about instead of "encouraging" (forcing) Terrans to use other units to break out, you instead encourage Zergs to use other units to counter Sci-vessels? I mean scourge is already an option that most Zergs are just skipping over, and so are Hydralisks. What zergs are skipping over scourges? Have you actually played / watched many ZvT's? Both scourge and science vessles are omnipresent. | ||
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
On January 25 2014 06:12 Survivor61316 wrote: How about instead of "encouraging" (forcing) Terrans to use other units to break out, you instead encourage Zergs to use other units to counter Sci-vessels? I mean scourge is already an option that most Zergs are just skipping over, and so are Hydralisks. I don't know where you've been, but using scourge to try and kill science vessels is standard. As in, run of the mill. As in, that's what you're supposed to do. And stop using the word "counter." It's a plague. And no, not that kind. I think the change to irradiate is good, if for no other reason than it's irradiate and I'm a zerg. Change to dark swarm I don't really get - honestly I think a buff to the cast range is called for no matter what - but I would rather have the sci-vessel change and the DS change reverted if the AOE of DS is rediculously small, now. It's w/e, will have to play with it. Would prefer the defiler model from SC2BW, the current one does look too much like a lobster. Also keep thinking that it would be awesome to have a lurker portrait made that actually reflects what the lurker looks like instead of some weird drone. It honestly would look cooler if you just zoomed in on the hydra portrait and did something cool to that - because they're supposed to have similar heads aesthetically, but the lurker head looks way different. As in, not even related. I'm pretty sure the portrait and the model don't match up - as in the portrait was for the first lurker model you can see in alpha screenshots, and then the team decided to remake the lurker mdoel to match the hydra aesthetically but then never remade the portrait model because they scrapped it. I know it's small, I know it's largely irrelevant atm, but w/e. | ||
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IeZaeL
Italy991 Posts
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Deleted User 97295
1137 Posts
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12377 Posts
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Piy
Scotland3152 Posts
With that being said, I really strongly disagree with the irradiate change and the justification for doing so. Don't mean any disrespect to the mods and devs, just want to outline my concerns. I'd be very curious to see responses to these changes/things I've missed etc: 1) "Irradiate will create more micro scenarios with Terran engaging lurkers". Disagree. By the time Terran has his first irradiate Zerg almost has defilers. By the time Terran has more than 3 irradiates, zerg has defilers. Lurkers should from this point never engage terran without dark swarm, rendering micro against the lurkers impossible for the Terran. If zerg delays defilers and gets more lurkers Terran will generally overwhelm him due to having better units and upgrades. The amount of pressure a good Terran can put on a zerg pre-hive in BW and Starbow is insane. 2) "This will fix the strength of vessels with mech." Disagree. Vessels still have the same DPS against muta and will still be considerably stronger in mech than they were in bw because of the natural clumping of the muta. If the natural clumping of Muta is removed, there will be fewer problems. You can sort of do it with stop on the mutas, but not really. Noone was actually killing Muta with pure vessel, people were using vessels to support ground to air fighting units, so changing it from Mutas taking 180 to only taking 120 and living with 2 hp doesnt really matter. They'll still be useless for fighting those marines/goliaths. 3) "We expect Nerve Jammer to replace irradiate against lurkers." Not bad for breaking ramps with bio before defiler, I admit. Certainly better than d matrix for doing this, and a bit more interesting. Good ability imo, slightly weaker vs ultras at hive also. Completely pointless once zerg has defilers unless you want to run by the lurkers under dark swarm, so it can't replace irradiate. 4) "Making Dark Swarm have a lower aoe balances the change". Nope. Swarming over lurkers at a natural to defend a 4th gas is just as good now, but playing a more active game with defilers and flanking in the centre (which was already very hard in bw and starbow) is now even harder. So it just encourages a turtley play style. 5) There is no mention of the effect this will have on Bio vs ultra ling. It will however, make it almost impossible to play late game with bio for Terran. An irradiate now only does 120 damage to a 400hp ultra? I would honestly have taken the removal of AOE from irradiate for the damage being replaced with the 250 damage from BW. You just can't play Science Vessel/bio vs zerg late game now, and it's just a shame to see Terran lose so much versatility. Especially when TvZ was so, so much fun before the patch, from both sides of the MU. The last two points outline why it will be such a turtley match-up now. Zerg can get 4 base gas very safely and go ultra ling very safely. They don't have to worry about vessel counts or anything since Vessels are now very, very bad vs ultralisks. In fact, I'd be curious if you even need to make scourge in the mu anymore, given that Terran now needs twice as many irradiates to kill lurkers under swarm and they just tickle ultras. I'll need to test. Anyways, I really hope you revert to the old patch values for irradiate. I also think Dark Swarm should have its AOE put back up again, with the casting range left as it is, as I don't think the zerg needed a nerf to the strength of their defiler lurker army when it's out on the map. If you really want to tinker with Irradiate, a solution would be to make the splash damage much lower or remove it altogether and increase the single target damage of the spell to make it more viable against ultralisks. Or, as I've said previously perhaps make it possible for mutas to unclump, to make Muta a more viable fighting unit against mech. Hope that this isn't considered rude or offensive to anyone who has dedicated so much of their time to making this mod, as I do greatly appreciate it, and a great deal of their changes have made certain MUs very fun and different from bw (ghosts in TvT are very interesting and super viable, the Viper vs mech is interesting, the sentinel is a great unit in TvP). I just worry a little about the impact some of these changes will have on the game. | ||
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
Wow MMA is really impressive in that video. Really shows you what a top pro can make of this game. The match itself begins at 35:40 (MMA vs Crank). | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
This is Strabow beta. It was not done when TB picked it up and showed it to the community. It is not done now. You have to adapt. You should have seen what it looked like 8 months ago. It was an unbalanced mess. Don't misunderstand though. We do want feedback. But constructive feedback would be: "Maybe a buff to this unit will lead to this..." and not "No more patches!" @Piy. Thank you for constructive feedback  | ||
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
On January 25 2014 06:55 Xiphias wrote: There will be patches... This is Strabow beta. It was not done when TB picked it up and showed it to the community. It is not done now. You have to adapt. You should have seen what it looked like 8 months ago. It was an unbalanced mess. Don't misunderstand though. We do want feedback. But constructive feedback would be: "Maybe a buff to this unit will lead to this..." and not "No more patches!" @Piy. Thank you for constructive feedback Why don't make a poll before making the changes? Even if you don't agree with the answers would legitimate some of the options. | ||
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SCST
Mexico1609 Posts
Some of the people in this thread are making me reconsider why Blizzard employees are such hardasses when it comes to interacting with the community. Maybe they just got tired of all the socially inept nerds who can't express themselves in a polite manner and thought: "fuck it, we'll do it without the communities help"? If so, no wonder Starcraft 2 turned out the way it did. | ||
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
On January 25 2014 07:04 SCST wrote: The cumulative balance whining in this thread is shameful. If you want to make a suggestion, then do it. Don't make demands or be a douche to the developers. It's a privilege that they have this open communication method and are so responsive to feedback. Some of the people in this thread are making me reconsider why Blizzard employees are such hardasses when it comes to interacting with the community. Maybe they just got tired of all the socially inept nerds who can't articulate themselves in a polite manner and just thought: "fuck it, we'll do it without the communities help"? What are you talking about? Me and a lot of persons just don't like the ideia of patching the game 2 times a week, even if it's a beta, cause the game is so good that players will fins new ways to adapt. If this is being a douche to developers ok... | ||
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SCST
Mexico1609 Posts
On January 25 2014 07:07 StarscreamG1 wrote: What are you talking about? Me and a lot of persons just don't like the ideia of patching the game 2 times a week, even if it's a beta, cause the game is so good that players will fins new ways to adapt. If this is being a douche to developers ok... I didn't quote you and I'm not directing the post at you at all . . . in fact I feel the same - that the developers might be a little too attentive to feedback. That post is really directed at the numerous people who come across as demanding and excessively whiny/bitchy about the balance of the game when it's obviously not figured out yet. There are plenty of comments in this thread that reflect that attitude. | ||
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
On January 25 2014 07:12 SCST wrote: I didn't quote you and I'm not directing the post at you at all . . . in fact I feel the same - that the developers might be a little too attentive to feedback. That post is really directed at the numerous people who come across as demanding and excessively whiny/bitchy about the balance of the game when it's obviously not figured out yet. There are plenty of comments in this thread that reflect that attitude. Ok. And let me be clear, Starbow might be saving e-sports | ||
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TT1
Canada10012 Posts
ive always thought that sentinels were way too strong in pvp, right now the mu is mostly sentinel oriented. robo is a wasted tech vs stargate openers and dts are also countered by sentinels, they just have too much utility imo. you rarely see goon/reav vs goon/reav comps anymore which is a shame. its an extremely high micro/apm intensive style | ||
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HaRuHi
1220 Posts
Bug Repot: Firebat oneshot a lot of things they should not be able to one shot with 16 dmg, mainly probes and zerglings. Suggestion: Lurker range, in BW, if the angle was right you could siege a bunker, with the "perfect" distance in sc2, lurker contains have become more challanging, not sure if intended, also really hard to engange siege tanks with the short range, range 7 plx? :D | ||
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Hider
Denmark9411 Posts
it seems to me the same idea of nerfing widow mine to make T use tanks.. what about having other ideas? That idea never made really sense though becasue Widow Mines and Siege Tanks didn't really have synergy. I can, however, udnerstand why David Kim wanted to nerf the Widow Mine to make "room" for other strats, but I think with the way the core game of Sc2 works, he is kinda tied on his hands. I think BW has a much more solid core, which makes it "easier" to change stuff around. For instance, Vikings and SV's with new Irradiate do have some synergy. Vikings deal very low splash, but can hit a lot of units at once. A month ago, we were (already) planning this change, becasue we didn't like how Irradiate functioned. Then TB came, and ofc the question is now/was whether we should make changes that we believe will make the most amount of people happy (for the short-term). Or the changes, that we believe will create the best type of changes once "we are out of beta" (and meta is closer to being figured out). We chose the latter option. That said, its not like we are certain this is gonna improve gameplay ASAP. In fact, Its very possible it may have some unintended conseuqences, but in that case, we believe we have room to buff other units to "solve" those potential issues. | ||
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