Starbow - Page 128

On January 25 2014 09:52 WolfintheSheep wrote:

Personally, I find it hilarious that the honeymoon period took only 100 pages to end.

Let's face it, any time the community says "Why doesn't Blizzard listen to us?" it actually means several thousand people screaming out "Listen to me, ignore these other fucks".

At the end of the day, it's the creators who have the final say, and for the sakes of the Starbow crew I hope they make that clear early on.

On January 25 2014 10:38 Doominator10 wrote:
I think a more interesting way to deal with irradiate would be to give zerg more options to play against it. Your main scenario based reason was something like:

"Terran presses R 5 times and WILL kill 5 lurkers no matter what. Boring gameplay."
First of all, you think there is no counter micro to it, but there is. Irradiate does not do AoE to burrowed units, so even if Terran spent 5 irradiates on 5 lurkers (which if terran has 5 science vessels with irradiate and zerg is not scourging them down there is a problem), zerg can still sit on top of those lurkers and use them for defense because they are burrowed. With burrow, you can burrow any irradiated unit to mitigate the AoE.

Another way to address the strength of Irradiate is to give Nuturing Swarm the ability to "cleanse" a unit of status ailments (irradiates, shocks, null ward slows, devourer stacks, etc). Or, to keep Irradiate with the same identity and only really affect ZvT, make irradiate do exactly the amount of life of a lurker. Then queens can nurturing swarm once and the lurker can't die because of the hp regained. (And maybe special tactics such as nurturing swarming a defiler at half hp will allow it to stay alive vs irradiate or something can spawn). This still is a buff to ultras however.

Generally speaking, I disagree that zergs have little to no counter play to strong irradiates. (If a couple scourge kill a science vessel each time they irradiate a lurker, I'd be more than willing to trade lurkers for science vessels).

On January 25 2014 10:38 Doominator10 wrote:
I think a more interesting way to deal with irradiate would be to give zerg more options to play against it. Your main scenario based reason was something like:

"Terran presses R 5 times and WILL kill 5 lurkers no matter what. Boring gameplay."
First of all, you think there is no counter micro to it, but there is. Irradiate does not do AoE to burrowed units, so even if Terran spent 5 irradiates on 5 lurkers (which if terran has 5 science vessels with irradiate and zerg is not scourging them down there is a problem), zerg can still sit on top of those lurkers and use them for defense because they are burrowed. With burrow, you can burrow any irradiated unit to mitigate the AoE.

Another way to address the strength of Irradiate is to give Nuturing Swarm the ability to "cleanse" a unit of status ailments (irradiates, shocks, null ward slows, devourer stacks, etc). Or, to keep Irradiate with the same identity and only really affect ZvT, make irradiate do exactly the amount of life of a lurker. Then queens can nurturing swarm once and the lurker can't die because of the hp regained. (And maybe special tactics such as nurturing swarming a defiler at half hp will allow it to stay alive vs irradiate or something can spawn). This still is a buff to ultras however.

Generally speaking, I disagree that zergs have little to no counter play to strong irradiates. (If a couple scourge kill a science vessel each time they irradiate a lurker, I'd be more than willing to trade lurkers for science vessels).

On January 25 2014 10:41 Sogetsu wrote:
I know we told this before and it is a stupid thing, but can you please please please please change the sprite of Sentinel at least for the Oracle or something "nicer"? Corsairs seem still too plain for me but Sentinels are kind of... weird every time I look at them :S

On January 25 2014 11:04 KDot2 wrote:
is there still talk of a ladder for Starbow ? how would this work ?

On January 25 2014 10:41 Sogetsu wrote:
I know we told this before and it is a stupid thing, but can you please please please please change the sprite of Sentinel at least for the Oracle or something "nicer"? Corsairs seem still too plain for me but Sentinels are kind of... weird every time I look at them :S

On January 25 2014 04:09 Hider wrote:


Well Imagine this scenario: There are 4 lurkers outside dropped in a location or simply containg you. Prepatch you would hold down R and left click 4 times --> All lurkers will die regardless of the skill level of the zerg player. There is little room for countermicro and its very easy to execute.

Now postpatch, however, your more incentived to attempt to kill them with siege tanks or spread out your units to flank. Something that is mechanically harder. Further, there is countermicro opportunity for the zerg player. He can go back with the Lurkers to creep and regenerate them or get the Queen to tranfuse them. This is also mechanically harder for the zerg player to do that. Prepatch everything was (almost) always decided beforehand.

In terms of gameplay action, we think the shared upgrades add more variation to gameplay. IMO Blizzards attempt at it doesn't really hit the core issue w/ Mech because tanks + hellions are simply underpowered in Sc2. Mech in Sbow though is pretty strong, but we see an issue with the fact that there is little reason to add in Banshee and Vikings in the later game since they almost always will lack behind in upgrades. Both Banshee's and Vikings have low damage per shot, which means they are really week when opponents hits good armor upgrades.
Rather, you late game TvZ have lots of Irradiates and doesn't really need Vikings therefore.

So we see three advantages with this change;
1) More uncertainty related to the outcome of small skirmishes.
2) Mechanically harder
3) More diverse unit compositions in the later game.


What point are we missing? Its our opinion that watching "R" being clicked five times on 5 Lurkers isn't particularly interesting gameplay. We want to encourage players to use other types of units to batlte them - does that imply we are missing the point?

On January 25 2014 13:32 TT1 wrote:
this is how a non sentinel pvp looks like~
http://drop.sc/371820

much more enjoyable :D

On January 25 2014 13:27 Jagoti wrote:
Fourth, a kind of crazy idea. What if Defilers could transfuse? With Irradiate being strong Zergs would have to countermicro with transfuse to keep their Lurkers alive (Queens are macro units and slow/useless off creep so they won't be used for this).
The game would obviously need to be rebalanced around this.