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Starbow - Page 123

Forum Index > SC2 General
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dani`
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands2402 Posts
January 24 2014 15:28 GMT
#2441
On January 24 2014 09:37 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2014 09:26 iHirO wrote:
On January 24 2014 09:12 Ramiz1989 wrote:

I would change the Roach model into SC2 Roaches and not Primal Roaches. I like SC2 Roaches way more and they feel a lot more Zergy, but that is just my opinion.


If they want to make the Roach distinctive to prevent it being confused with the standard SC 2 Roach, they could use the Vile Strain model from the campaign.

[image loading]

Yeah, that too.

To be honest, all three of them look a lot better than Primal Roach.

Just the normal Roach is fine with me. The evolved ones look a bit silly with over the top colors (bright Green, Purple). Though if we cannot pick the default Roach (don't know why not) I'd also favor Vile Strain over Primal.
awwnuts07
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States621 Posts
January 24 2014 15:38 GMT
#2442
On January 24 2014 19:10 NovemberstOrm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2014 05:52 Laertes wrote:
I don't know if you know Kim Taek Yong
Often called "Bisu"
But if you do I have something to tell to him
He may not like Starcraft 2
Which to him is void of passion
Void of anything good
We agree with Bisu on this
Because he is right
Nothing good can come of the damned colossi, or sentries
Or Terrible Terrible damage.
Tell Bisu that if he wants his corsairs once again, they are at his command
-It's a good day to die! En taro Adun!
Tell bisu that if he wants his reavers
They have come back
And his dark templar wait ever on shakuras
Awaiting their master's return.
If you know the true Bisu tell him this:
That Starbow has come to SC2
That Starbow is everything he ever wanted
And this time, there will be no escape from
The Dagger to come
Tell him all that was ruined is restored
Tell him all that the passion can return
For Starbow is here, and tassadar awaits...

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=440661

Starbow is a mix of BW and parts of SC2(Only the good parts, which have been heavily revamped and redesigned to accomodate this positional, amazing game. You can have a part in shaping it. Many play it, and they love it. To them it is true passion again. Please tell Bisu what this is, and advise him to give it a shot.)

~ Adam "UloseTheGame" Foltin Starbow Playtester, Fan, Community Outreach, and Poet.

I wrote this poem and PM to give to Bisu, can anyone contact him for me? I...I sent this to novemberstorm but who knows if he'll ever read it. If ANYONE has contact with Bisu, give this to him please, from the starbow team.


Not sure why you pm'ed this to me.


ho lee fuk. Is this actually a full prose poem dedicated to Starbow and Bisu?
I'm a noob
HaRuHi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
1220 Posts
January 24 2014 15:45 GMT
#2443
On January 24 2014 19:05 Sikian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 24 2014 14:01 rift wrote:
Poll: does the defiler look like a lobster?

Yes (25)
 
86%

No (4)
 
14%

29 total votes

Your vote: does the defiler look like a lobster?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No



couldn't help myself


I just have the feeling that it's a bit too big. Otherwise, it looks cool

Anyway, it's not the really-cool australian crocodile model


I personally think the infestor looks really good, There are only a few thousand really bad memories connected with that unit, other than that they should just swap the model to the infestor model?

Poll: Swap Lobster model to Infestor model?

Too many bad memories associated with Infestor model. (29)
 
69%

It's not a lobster! (8)
 
19%

Infestor looks cool, I never played WoL, GoGo. (5)
 
12%

42 total votes

Your vote: Swap Lobster model to Infestor model?

(Vote): It's not a lobster!
(Vote): Too many bad memories associated with Infestor model.
(Vote): Infestor looks cool, I never played WoL, GoGo.

Zaphod Beeblebrox
Profile Joined December 2010
Denmark697 Posts
January 24 2014 15:56 GMT
#2444
Infestor model is a bad idea. This is not an Infestor, and it never will be. New players would immediately associate it with the Infestor, and be dissapointed/annoyed when they realise that it isn't.

We made clear changes to models, icons and colors throughout the mod to highlight the things that are new. If the Defiler is to be changed, it should be a completely new model instead.
Go try StarBow on the Arcade. TL thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=440661
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
January 24 2014 16:06 GMT
#2445
I really don't think that Model should be changed, it is great model. It just needs to be re-sized, it needs to be smaller, it is way too big now for Defiler. Make it a bit larger than Hydralisk, something between Hydralisks and Lurker for example and it will be perfect in my opinion.

I think that many people say that Defiler model is bad only because of its size.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
HaRuHi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
1220 Posts
January 24 2014 16:15 GMT
#2446
On January 25 2014 01:06 Ramiz1989 wrote:
I really don't think that Model should be changed, it is great model. It just needs to be re-sized, it needs to be smaller, it is way too big now for Defiler. Make it a bit larger than Hydralisk, something between Hydralisks and Lurker for example and it will be perfect in my opinion.

I think that many people say that Defiler model is bad only because of its size.


To me it is bad because it looks like someone strapped a lobster onto a six legged mechanical robot. Maybe it will be less obvious if the model is smaller sure, but I would prefer something that moves more fluently. The defiler had this wavy movement and it did not had lobster claws but long antennae.
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
January 24 2014 16:21 GMT
#2447
On January 25 2014 01:15 HaRuHi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2014 01:06 Ramiz1989 wrote:
I really don't think that Model should be changed, it is great model. It just needs to be re-sized, it needs to be smaller, it is way too big now for Defiler. Make it a bit larger than Hydralisk, something between Hydralisks and Lurker for example and it will be perfect in my opinion.

I think that many people say that Defiler model is bad only because of its size.


To me it is bad because it looks like someone strapped a lobster onto a six legged mechanical robot. Maybe it will be less obvious if the model is smaller sure, but I would prefer something that moves more fluently. The defiler had this wavy movement and it did not had lobster claws but long antennae.

This one doesn't have Lobster claws...

http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130630164734/starbow/images/thumb/1/1c/Defiler.jpg/1000px-Defiler.jpg

The Defiler concept is based on MR--Jack's Defiler artwork:

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/091/3/6/defiler_by_mr__jack-d1vsj3w.jpg

"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
Kabel
Profile Joined September 2009
Sweden1735 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-24 17:10:59
January 24 2014 17:04 GMT
#2448
New patch up earlier today.

Patch notes:

Bug fixes:
+ Show Spoiler +
- Lurker unburrow hotkey changed from E to R.
- Dark Templar hotkey changed from K to R.
- Dark Swarm now protects both friendly and enemy units. (Earlier only friendly units...)
- Viper nest can now be canceled during construction.
- Banelings now have a button for the Explode ability.
- Firebats now deal proper damage. (Earlier did x3 dmg vs Light units...)
- Defilers can no longer Consume Changelings for energy.
- Medic Stimpack now displays the right text.
- Defiler model smaller.
- Dragoon micro & model size adjusted to feel more smooth.
- Reaver unloaded from Warp Prism now has a 2 second delay before attacking. Allows Protoss to target fire with the first Scarab, and gives more time for the enemy player to react.


Balance changes:
+ Show Spoiler +
- Defiler life changed from 120 to 80.
- Defiler starting armor changed from 0 to 1.
- Consumtion for Viper no longer requires an upgrade.
- Dark Swarm range increased from 5 to 7.
- Dark Swarm radius decreased from 3.5 to 2.75

- Arbiter life changed from 100 to 200.

- Reaper upgrade no longer requries a Factory.
- Irradiate damage lowered from 180 over 30 seconds to 120 over 20 seconds. (Maintains the same DPS)
- Mech & Air upgrades are merged into the same upgrade at Armory.
- Nerve Jammers reduction of burrowed ground units attack damage increased from 25% to 50%.
- Ghost cloak research time increased from 72 seconds to 110 seconds.


Explanation for changes (partly written by Hider)
+ Show Spoiler +
If you watched any TvZ late game, chances are that you watched Science Vessels for mass Irradiate and Dark Swarm all over the battle. At the moment, the strength of these two abilities evens each other out. Its worth pointing out, that we don’t see this meta as just being temporary, as both of the abilities were heavily used in BW as well and with the introduction of smartcast, they have become easier to use.

While these two abilities can be pretty cool, we would like to see more variation. By making Irradiate barely not kill Mutalisks, Vipers, Lurkers and Guardians, we believe it will still be very strong against Z, but in order to finish of for example the Mutalisks, the terran will need to mix in Vikings. Against Lurkers, we don’t find it to be particularly interesting gameplay when an Irradiate always ends up killing the Lurker. We prefer to see micro that has more counter-elements to it. By buffing Nerve Jammer against Burrowed units, we expect Nerve Jammer to replace Irradiate against Lurkers. Against Nerve Jammer, the Zerg player can reposition his Lurkers or simply target fire the Nerve Jammer to prevent it from activating.

We can see usage for Vikings and Banshee’s in the early game/early midgame, however as the game progresses they become increasingly obsolete due their low damage values which make them quite bad against upgraded enemy units. Given the Irradiate-nerf, we think air units sharing upgrades with mech will be important for balance, but also lead to more variation in the gameplay.

Regarding Dark Swarm, we originally attempted to make this a bit harder to use by giving it a smaller casting range. After hearing a lot of feedback, we realize this isn’t the correct approach. Further, given Irradiate being nerfed, it would only seem fair that we nerfed this ablity as well. We think the AOE-nerf will make it harder to use optimally during battles and should add a bit more diversification to the zerg army in the lategame.

By giving Vipers the Consumption ability from start, we want to encourage the usage of this unit, which also might help to further add diversification to the Zerg army. For the same reason, the Reaper upgrade is now easier for Terran to obtain, which hopefully encourages more early & mid game harassment.

Arbiter and Defiler life are changed to fit better with the BW values. As we have mentioned earlier, we intend to use values and stats from BW to balance the game, as long as there is no apparent reason for not using them. The reason for this is that we do not have a huge statistical database w/ numbers and are not fulltimed employed w/ Starbow. So in order to make life as "easy" as possible for us, we rely on BW numbers to balance the game where we think it can be justified.


Further work:
+ Show Spoiler +

We are constantly looking into solving more bugs and adjusting the balance/design of the game. Spider mines, Bio vs Zerg, Mutalisks, Lurkers, Protoss air, Macro mechanics and many other things are on our to-do-list! We appreciate all feedback regarding the balance, design and gameplay, aswell as bug-reports.
Creator of Starbow
rift
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
1819 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-24 17:23:40
January 24 2014 17:06 GMT
#2449
Here's the sc2bw defiler:
[image loading]
Poll: Yay or nay?

Yay! (53)
 
66%

Nay. (27)
 
34%

80 total votes

Your vote: Yay or nay?

(Vote): Yay!
(Vote): Nay.

TheButtonmen
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada1401 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-24 17:10:38
January 24 2014 17:10 GMT
#2450
Viking's air attack are not benefiting from the new combined upgrades.
Beastyqt
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Serbia516 Posts
January 24 2014 17:11 GMT
#2451
Same as bc's.
Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/Beastyqt YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/beastyqtsc2
NapkinBox
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States314 Posts
January 24 2014 17:11 GMT
#2452
On January 25 2014 02:04 Kabel wrote:
New patch up earlier today.

Patch notes:

Bug fixes:
+ Show Spoiler +
- Lurker unburrow hotkey changed from E to R.
- Dark Templar hotkey changed from K to R.
- Dark Swarm now protects both friendly and enemy units. (Earlier only friendly units...)
- Viper nest can now be canceled during construction.
- Banelings now have a button for the Explode ability.
- Firebats now deal proper damage. (Earlier did x3 dmg vs Light units...)
- Defilers can no longer Consume Changelings for energy.
- Medic Stimpack now displays the right text.
- Defiler model smaller.
- Dragoon micro & model size adjusted to feel more smooth.
- Reaver unloaded from Warp Prism now has a 2 second delay before attacking. Allows Protoss to target fire with the first Scarab, and gives more time for the enemy player to react.


Balance changes:
+ Show Spoiler +
- Defiler life changed from 120 to 80.
- Defiler starting armor changed from 0 to 1.
- Consumtion for Viper no longer requires an upgrade.
- Dark Swarm range increased from 5 to 7.
- Dark Swarm radius decreased from 3.5 to 2.75

- Arbiter life changed from 100 to 200.

- Reaper upgrade no longer requries a Factory.
- Irradiate damage lowered from 180 over 30 seconds to 120 over 20 seconds. (Maintains the same DPS)
- Mech & Air upgrades are merged into the same upgrade at Armory.
- Nerve Jammers reduction of burrowed ground units attack damage increased from 25% to 50%.
- Ghost cloak research time increased from 72 seconds to 110 seconds.


Explanation for changes (partly written by Hider)
+ Show Spoiler +
If you watched any TvZ late game, chances are that you watched Science Vessels for mass Irradiate and Dark Swarm all over the battle. At the moment, the strength of these two abilities evens each other out. Its worth pointing out, that we don’t see this meta as just being temporary, as both of the abilities were heavily used in BW as well and with the introduction of smartcast, they have become easier to use.

While these two abilities can be pretty cool, we would like to see more variation. By making Irradiate barely not kill Mutalisks, Vipers, Lurkers and Guardians, we believe it will still be incredibly strong against Z, but in order to finish of for example the Mutalisks, the terran will need to mix in Vikings. Against Lurkers, we don’t find it to be particularly interesting gameplay when an Irradiate always ends up killing the Lurker. We prefer to see micro that has more counter-elements to it. By buffing Nerve Jammer against Burrowed units, we expect Nerve Jammer to replace Irradiate against Lurkers. Against Nerve Jammer, the Zerg player can reposition his Lurkers or simply target fire the Nerve Jammer to prevent it from activating.

We can see usage for Vikings and Banshee’s in the early game/early midgame, however as the game progresses they become increasingly obsolete due their low damage values which make them quite bad against upgraded enemy units. Given the Irradiate-nerf, we think air units sharing upgrades with mech will be important for balance, but also lead to more variation in the gameplay.

Regarding Dark Swarm, we originally attempted to make this a bit harder to use by giving it a smaller casting rage. After hearing a lot of feedback, we realize this isn’t the correct approach. Further, given Irradiate being nerfed, it would only seem fair that we nerfed this ablity as well. We think the AOE-nerf will make it harder to use optimally during battles and should add a bit more diversification to the zerg army in the lategame.

By giving Vipers the Consumption ability from start, we want to encourage the usage of this unit, which also might help to further add diversification to the Zerg army. For the same reason, the Reaper upgrade is now easier for Terran to obtain, which hopefully encourages more early & mid game harassment.

Arbiter and Defiler life are changed to fit better with the BW values. As we have mentioned earlier, we intend to use values and stats from BW to balance the game, as long as there is no apparent reason for not using them. The reason for this is that we do not have a huge statistical database w/ numbers and are not fulltimed employed w/ Starbow. So in order to make life as "easy" as possible for us, we rely on BW numbers to balance the game where we think it can be justified.


Further work:
+ Show Spoiler +

We are constantly looking into solving more bugs and adjusting the balance/design of the game. Spider mines, Bio vs Zerg, Mutalisks, Lurkers, Protoss air, Macro mechanics and many other things are on our to-do-list! We appreciate all feedback regarding the balance, design and gameplay, aswell as bug-reports.


Only big problem I have is the range change of Dark Swarm. I do not think increase of the range was necessary. I just think people have to learn how to use Dark Swarm to position themselves BEFORE they use it again to engage.
"Who has the best durability feat in all of comic book superheroes?" "Aquaman surviving pop culture."
GoShox
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States1829 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-24 17:24:12
January 24 2014 17:19 GMT
#2453
On January 25 2014 02:04 Kabel wrote:
- Reaver unloaded from Warp Prism now has a 2 second delay before attacking. Allows Protoss to target fire with the first Scarab, and gives more time for the enemy player to react.


Yay! :D

Love this change as a Protoss player. Going to be nice to be able to target what I want to attack now, Reaver micro is so fun
insanesky
Profile Joined July 2009
Poland24 Posts
January 24 2014 17:21 GMT
#2454
I hope you guys will make a ladder. Without one the game is dead ;/.

________
TheWinD
iS powah
PredY
Profile Joined September 2009
Czech Republic1731 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-24 17:28:42
January 24 2014 17:27 GMT
#2455
im not sure why you would merge mech and air upgrades?
http://www.twitch.tv/czelpredy
AmericanUmlaut
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2540 Posts
January 24 2014 17:33 GMT
#2456
On January 25 2014 02:27 PredY wrote:
im not sure why you would merge mech and air upgrades?

Maybe it would help if you read the explanation?
The frumious Bandersnatch
Lorch
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany3649 Posts
January 24 2014 17:44 GMT
#2457
On January 25 2014 02:19 GoShox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2014 02:04 Kabel wrote:
- Reaver unloaded from Warp Prism now has a 2 second delay before attacking. Allows Protoss to target fire with the first Scarab, and gives more time for the enemy player to react.


Yay! :D

Love this change as a Protoss player. Going to be nice to be able to target what I want to attack now, Reaver micro is so fun


Yes this was by far the most annoying thing as protoss. Good changes, glad to see you guys are still updating so regularly and are really listening to community feedback.
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
January 24 2014 17:45 GMT
#2458
On January 25 2014 02:06 rift wrote:
Here's the sc2bw defiler:
[image loading]
Poll: Yay or nay?

Yay! (53)
 
66%

Nay. (27)
 
34%

80 total votes

Your vote: Yay or nay?

(Vote): Yay!
(Vote): Nay.


It is ok, but I would like to see combination of the two, for example, the "tail" to be from SC2BW, and the rest to be from Starbow or something like that.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
dani`
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands2402 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-24 18:04:02
January 24 2014 17:48 GMT
#2459
On January 25 2014 02:10 TheButtonmen wrote:
Viking's air attack are not benefiting from the new combined upgrades.

On January 25 2014 02:11 Beastyqt wrote:
Same as bc's.

I hope these critical bugs are fixed as soon as you guys have time Probably none of the Starport units get the upgrades?

~ edit
Just tested on Fighting Spirit (if that matters); none of the Starport units get weapon/armor upgrades from the merged Armory upgrade.

Also, the requirements of lvl2 and lvl3 upgrades (both weapons and armor) say "Terran Vehicle Weapons X" instead of "Terran Vehicle and Ship Weapons X".
MisterKatosS
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
France352 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-24 17:59:23
January 24 2014 17:59 GMT
#2460
One Mechanical thing I thought was better in Bw than SC2 is limited unit selection...
While it is just a limitation, it forces you to do fun stuff: essentialy separating a big army into small chunk that you focus on placing inteligntly (like placing you groups in concave while waiting for a terran to push).

maybe 12 is a low limitation though ?

what do you think ?
My web development company website : http://www.make-me-a-website.net My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/MrKatoss
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