EPTWCS AM 2014 S1 Qualifier Registrations Now Open - Page 88
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Wintex
Norway16834 Posts
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Dinotramp
Nauru2871 Posts
On January 14 2014 08:59 Wintex wrote: BOMBER BOMBER BOMBER!!!! GG | ||
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IAmWithStupid
Russian Federation1016 Posts
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Wintex
Norway16834 Posts
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AWalker9
United Kingdom7229 Posts
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NovaMB
Germany9534 Posts
Its astounding how many fuckups happen during those AM qualifiers and MLG got bashed for it.Here nobody seems to give a damn. NASL seems to get a free pass every time, but they havent improved anything since they've taken over this WCS. And I doubt they will, But they can't do wrong ofc. + Show Spoiler + Killing esports bla bla | ||
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coL.hendralisk
Zimbabwe1756 Posts
On January 14 2014 08:38 StutteR wrote: Don't call someone dumb just because you had some bad luck. On January 14 2014 08:38 Musicus wrote: Undead doesn't troll, I don't know why he has that opinion, but he is serious. Was about to make a long post, but I think he also knows all the reasons why seeds exist and he still has that opinion. Edit: So what I mean is, you can respect a different opinion and don't have to call him dumb. Sorry, I am just frustrated and sad atm. No offense to him for having his opinion. On January 14 2014 08:44 StutteR wrote: this is a wildcard qualifier meant for ladder stars to get a chance to join WCS. The fact that pros fail in previous qualifiers or go outside of their region and try to qualify using this competition is their own fault. A single elim tourney is never the best but considering time restraints, its a good solution. On January 14 2014 08:42 Undead1993 wrote: exactly i didn't mean that blizzcon seeding is dumb for example moreover blizzard wanted to give newcomers chances with the wcs system, how do they get chances to show their skill if in the qualfier for the "Challenger League" their first opponent is bomber? Here's how I see it. The original quote "the brackets are random and it's not fair to seed people because it's a qualifier and everyone should have equal chances" makes me think: first of all it's based on ladder, so why not seed it for example, based on ladder rank? Is it also fair to you if one quarter has all the highest ranked players while another has the bare minimum ranked qualified players? I believe EU wcs had seeds all qualifiers (dunno about wildcard) while NA wcs for sure had just random brackets all the way since the first. I mean, if you think the whole idea of seeding is bad or whatever then I just don't know what to say.. So by bracket luck (which is evident in all of the qualifiers thus far), some players that would qualify for sure if they lucked out should miss out while some others luck in? And "how do they get chances to show their skill if in the qualfier for the "Challenger League" their first opponent is bomber?" How about xeno or myself? These 'newcomers' would most likely not make it out if the previous qualifiers and this one had seeding though.. | ||
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NovaMB
Germany9534 Posts
On January 14 2014 09:19 coL.hendralisk wrote: Sorry, I am just frustrated and sad atm. No offense to him for having his opinion. Here's how I see it. The original quote "the brackets are random and it's not fair to seed people because it's a qualifier and everyone should have equal chances" makes me think: first of all it's based on ladder, so why not seed it based on ladder rank? Is it also fair to you if one quarter has all the highest ranked players while another has the bare minimum ranked qualified players? I believe EU wcs had seeds all qualifiers (dunno about wildcard) while NA wcs for sure had just random brackets all the way since the first. So by bracket luck (which is evident in all of the qualifiers thus far), some players that would qualify for sure if they lucked out should miss out while some others luck in? And "how do they get chances to show their skill if in the qualfier for the "Challenger League" their first opponent is bomber?" How about xeno or myself? ESL used their Go4SC2/IEM seeding (dont really know how it works) for every qualifier. Only problem with that was that players who never played on the ESL site (Yoda, Patience) got the lowest seeds of the Wildcard qualifier(First was #15, cant really explain why, YoDa was #69 and last) Theres always bracket luck involved in every qualifier, but you can atleast try to setup a fair competetion by balancing the brackets out. Having 4 favourites of the qualifier meet before the ro8 is not a fair way of seeding or a fair bracket for that matter Ladder rank would be weird because most players didnt bother to play after getting 200 wins so they were just Masters, and how do you seed those? That would bring the same problems as the ESL seeding. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23570 Posts
On January 14 2014 09:19 coL.hendralisk wrote: + Show Spoiler + On January 14 2014 08:38 StutteR wrote: Don't call someone dumb just because you had some bad luck. On January 14 2014 08:38 Musicus wrote: Undead doesn't troll, I don't know why he has that opinion, but he is serious. Was about to make a long post, but I think he also knows all the reasons why seeds exist and he still has that opinion. Edit: So what I mean is, you can respect a different opinion and don't have to call him dumb. Sorry, I am just frustrated and sad atm. No offense to him for having his opinion. On January 14 2014 08:44 StutteR wrote: this is a wildcard qualifier meant for ladder stars to get a chance to join WCS. The fact that pros fail in previous qualifiers or go outside of their region and try to qualify using this competition is their own fault. A single elim tourney is never the best but considering time restraints, its a good solution. On January 14 2014 08:42 Undead1993 wrote: exactly i didn't mean that blizzcon seeding is dumb for example moreover blizzard wanted to give newcomers chances with the wcs system, how do they get chances to show their skill if in the qualfier for the "Challenger League" their first opponent is bomber? Here's how I see it. The original quote "the brackets are random and it's not fair to seed people because it's a qualifier and everyone should have equal chances" makes me think: first of all it's based on ladder, so why not seed it based on ladder rank? Is it also fair to you if one quarter has all the highest ranked players while another has the bare minimum ranked qualified players? I believe EU wcs had seeds all qualifiers (dunno about wildcard) while NA wcs for sure had just random brackets all the way since the first. So by bracket luck (which is evident in all of the qualifiers thus far), some players that would qualify for sure if they lucked out should miss out while some others luck in? And "how do they get chances to show their skill if in the qualfier for the "Challenger League" their first opponent is bomber?" How about xeno or myself? These 'newcomers' would most likely not make it out if the previous qualifiers and this one had seeding though.. I can confirm that the EU wildcard also had seeds and comletely agree with everything you said. Today really was unfortunate for you and others and it could've been avoided if done correctly imo. No offense to Desrow (he played great against JonSnow), but if you look at his bracket and yours for example, it's hard to not see a problem and think it's fair. I hope you keep going though, voted for you on http://gameon.gg/vote at least. | ||
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coL.hendralisk
Zimbabwe1756 Posts
On January 14 2014 09:26 NovaMB wrote: ESL used their Go4SC2/IEM seeding (dont really know how it works) for every qualifier. Only problem with that was that players who never played on the ESL site (Yoda, Patience) got the lowest seeds of the Wildcard qualifier(First was #15, cant really explain why, YoDa was #69 and last) Theres always bracket luck involved in every qualifier, but you can atleast try to setup a fair competetion by balancing the brackets out. Having 4 favourites of the qualifier meet before the ro8 is not a fair way of seeding. Ladder rank would be weird because most players didnt bother to play after getting 200 wins so they were just Masters, and how do you seed those? That would bring the same problems as the ESL seeding. You could seed the known players like Check and Bomber who finished in top 16 gm last season and randomize the rest. WCS america qualifiers heavily depended on bracket luck this time, even MLG used seeds when they hosted the qualifiers for wcs. On January 14 2014 09:27 Musicus wrote: I can confirm that the EU wildcard also had seeds and comletely agree with everything you said. Today really was unfortunate for you and others and it could've been avoided if done correctly imo. No offense to Desrow (he played great against JonSnow), but if you look at his bracket and yours for example, it's hard to not see a problem and think it's fair. I hope you keep going though, voted for you on http://gameon.gg/vote at least. Thank you | ||
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mikumegurine
Canada3145 Posts
that foreigner technique | ||
Adebisi
Canada1637 Posts
On January 14 2014 09:26 NovaMB wrote: ESL used their Go4SC2/IEM seeding (dont really know how it works) for every qualifier. Only problem with that was that players who never played on the ESL site (Yoda, Patience) got the lowest seeds of the Wildcard qualifier(First was #15, cant really explain why, YoDa was #69 and last) Theres always bracket luck involved in every qualifier, but you can atleast try to setup a fair competetion by balancing the brackets out. Having 4 favourites of the qualifier meet before the ro8 is not a fair way of seeding or a fair bracket for that matter Ladder rank would be weird because most players didnt bother to play after getting 200 wins so they were just Masters, and how do you seed those? That would bring the same problems as the ESL seeding. I agree, lots of problems with seeding, I'm not sure why they didn't just use a double elimination bracket instead of single elimination, adds a few more games and probably an extra hour or two to the length of the qualifier, but drastically reduces bracket luck. Double elim is generally pretty bad for broadcasting purposes, but the intent of the qualifier is to find the best players, which DE is no doubt better than SE, hell even Code A is using partial double elim for their qualifier now. | ||
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korona
1098 Posts
Description of Moosegills (account name 'iRene') case: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20589384 Description of Guitarcheese (account name 'vVvGlon') case: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20590358 | ||
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
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ElhayM vs. 
iAsonu
believe
