Blizzard has released their 30 page Player Handbook for WCS 2014. Most of it is fairly obvious and routine, writing it all out at length for the sake of thoroughness. Don't be late, don't be a jerk, don't conspire to fix matches with underground gambling rings – that kind of stuff.
However, there's a real prize money penalty policy this year, so in the interest of helping lazy pro-gamers not lose too much money here's a short summary of the important parts.
Monetary Fines
Before we explore what exactly can be penalized, let's see what there is to lose.
Player Tournament Offenses
(page 20, section 18.0)
A. If a player does not follow the rules of the tournament, the player may receive a warning at the discretion of the tournament organizer.
B. If a player causes a delay beyond the designated exceptions, the player will receive a warning.
C. Once a warning has been issued, subsequent infractions will accrue a penalty at the discretion of the organizer and Blizzard Entertainment. A continuing or repeated infraction will cause multiple penalties at the discretion of the organizer.
D. In a single competition day, if a player receives:
1. One (1) penalty will result in a 1% prize money deduction
2. Two (2) penalties will result in a 2% prize money deduction
3. Three (3) penalties will result in a 5% prize money deduction
4. Each further penalty will result in an additional +5% prize money deduction
E. Penalties accrue cumulatively throughout the season and are deducted from the players total season earnings – e.g. one penalty on Jan 5, 2014 and three penalties on Feb 9, 2014 cause a 1% + 5% = 6% total deduction in prize earnings.
F. All Prize money deducted via penalties for a season will be added to the Prize of the highest placing Premier player in the tournament with the least penalties for the current season.
G. Blizzard Entertainment and the tournament organizer reserve the right to eject any player from the league for repeated misconduct or rule violations.
So, not only are there penalties, but they are deducted as a percentage of your total winnings from the entire season. The penalties are added to the prize pool, opening the door for opportunistic pros to goad their opponents into getting penalized (just kidding... or am I?).
Now that we know the stakes, here are some of the important rules:
Player Code of Conduct
(page 19, section 16.0)
A. Language – In all languages, players may not use obscene gestures, profanity and/or racist comments in game chat, lobby chat, or live interviews. This includes abbreviations and/or obscure references. Organizers reserve the right to enforce this at their own discretion.
B. Behavior – Players are required to behave in a sportsmanlike manner towards other competitors, members of the administration team, media, and fans.
C. Disputes and Redress – Any disputes a player may have with the current operation of the league should first be addressed by email, telephone or in person to the tournament organizer. If the organizer does not provide an adequate response in a timely fashion, players and teams should contact Blizzard Entertainment at esportsteam@blizzard.com.
D. Communication & Storage Devices – Players must consult with the organizer before bringing electronic storage devices to any event and are not allowed to use any mobile or external communication equipment during a match. All personal equipment must be in an enclosed bag or be given to an administrator while a match is played.
E. Illegal substances – Players may not be under the influence or in possession of illegal substances. In addition to the standard Code of Conduct penalties, any offending players may be handed over to the authorities in accordance to the local laws.
F. Alcohol – Players that are intoxicated during any event may be disqualified at the discretion of the tournament organizer.
G. Cheating – Any form of cheating will not be tolerated. If the organizer determines that a player is cheating, the player will be immediately disqualified and removed from the tournament and may be restricted from participating in future events.
H. Software Exploitation – Any intentional use of any bugs or exploits in the game may result in a forfeit of the match and disqualification from the tournament. Bugs and exploits will be determined at the discretion of Blizzard Entertainment.
I. Collusion and Match Fixing – Players are not allowed to intentionally alter the results of any match. If the organizer determines that a player is colluding or match fixing, the player will be immediately disqualified and removed from the tournament and may be restricted from participating in future events. Players must compete to the best of their ability at all times.
J. Gambling – Players are not allowed to place wagers on any matches or actions in, or around, the World Championship Series.
Other Things You Should Know
Even for pros who have played in hundreds of tournaments, there are a few rules for WCS 2014 that should be worth taking note of. These include chatting restrictions, restrictions on watching replays between matches, and considerations for race picking players.
Online/Offline Tournament Rules
(excerpts from p.14-16, sections 13.0 and 15.0)
Don't be late/don't slow things down
C. Players must check in and be ready to play 30 minutes before their scheduled match time. Ready to play is defined as being ready to start the game within 60 seconds. (online only)
D. Players must get permission from the administrator anytime they must leave their computer and provide a return time. (online only)
S. Players who fail to arrive for their scheduled matches will receive the loss of their first game 10 minutes after the organizer’s match start time. Players will receive one loss for every additional 5 minutes they are late. The player will be considered forfeit if the player does not participate in any matches in that round of play. (online only)
Race pickers can blind pick.
H. Players may request a blind pick where each player will communicate their race to the tournament administration team before map selection.
I. Players may switch races after each match.
No chatting
J. During the game, players may not use chat except for a greeting, closing, and request for pause.
No replay watching between games
Q. In Qualifiers, replay watching may be considered as a delay of game and be grounds for a warning and subsequent penalties.
R .In Challenger and Premier League, players may not watch any replays in the middle of a match. If there are any games that remain in the match, players must rejoin the designated tournament administrator group within 1 minute.
Replays may be released to the public
T. Replays of tournament matches can be used for the production of additional contents at the discretion of Organizers and Blizzard Entertainment. Replay packs may be made public after the conclusion of the season in which the original game was played.
Well, there you have it players! Try not to get disqualfied.
Though your job hasn't gotten any easier, there's a little bit of silver lining we can find in the rules....
The shoutcaster must treat all players with respect and cannot comment negatively on the player’s overall skill or character
I feel every single one of these rules is targeted at Naniwa, or maybe he is just the most notorious offender. Like the no replay watching between games. That should put a clamp down on a lot of the delays in broadcasts.
Seems like good stuff. Mostly keep the show rolling and don't be a ass hat.
On December 20 2013 23:16 LongShot27 wrote: So what you're saying is Naniwa cant compete next year? Neat!
And I guess Stephano won't be coming back either:
F. Alcohol – Players that are intoxicated during any event may be disqualified at the discretion of the tournament organizer.
But even if some of these rules are relatively strict or subjective, at least there's a handbook with relatively straightforward transparency Makes controversies a whole lot easier to settle. Good!
On December 20 2013 23:36 MajOr wrote: I. Players may switch races after each match. < retarded
Whyzat?
Wouldn't that benefit a player like yourself who is pretty freaking good with all races? I'd think you'd be really good at coming up with a neat player-specific strat as zerg or protoss in a second game in a series or something.
I think that rule opens up the potential to see pretty interesting plays, but will most likely not ever be used.
On December 20 2013 23:36 MajOr wrote: I. Players may switch races after each match. < retarded
Whyzat?
Wouldn't that benefit a player like yourself who is pretty freaking good with all races? I'd think you'd be really good at coming up with a neat player-specific strat as zerg or protoss in a second game in a series or something.
I think that rule opens up the potential to see pretty interesting plays, but will most likely not ever be used.
I heard players say that they, for instant, like to play with P vs P and T but prefer TvZ over PvZ. Could become handy someday, perhaps...
On December 20 2013 23:36 MajOr wrote: I. Players may switch races after each match. < retarded
That rule is never going to be used and in case it is used it will be amazing and absolutely reward skill. Being able to play multiple races in a single series nothing to look down upon or to obstruct with a ruleset.
I understand the reasons behind this, we need to act professional fi we are to be taken seriously, but this just rustle my jimmies. No offensive language, no in game chat... basically all the lovable friendly trash talk that really gets me hyped, is out. No more personalities everybody! Remember how much we loved Idra's "Fuck you" to Huk after that Halluc VR match? NO MORE OF THAT NOW!. Robots everybody, just play the game and get out.
4thelolz: No CHEATING!? Looks like the whole Protoss race is out... those advanced imbalanced theocratic dicks.
On December 20 2013 23:56 Sly Faux wrote: I understand the reasons behind this, we need to act professional fi we are to be taken seriously, but this just rustle my jimmies. No offensive language, no in game chat... basically all the lovable friendly trash talk that really gets me hyped, is out. No more personalities everybody! Remember how much we loved Idra's "Fuck you" to Huk after that Halluc VR match? NO MORE OF THAT NOW!. Robots everybody, just play the game and get out.
4thelolz: No CHEATING!? Looks like the whole Protoss race is out... those advanced imbalanced theocratic dicks.
That's up to the player. In France, soccer player are fined all the time because they say things like : "Fuck you dickhead" to journalists. They are fined but still play (and win sometimes. (i don't follow football)).
To be faire the idrA "fuck you" happened in 2010/2011. We are in 2014 and it was the last time we saw something like that. Guess you have not been hyped for a long time sir.
D. Communication & Storage Devices – Players must consult with the organizer before bringing electronic storage devices to any event and are not allowed to use any mobile or external communication equipment during a match. All personal equipment must be in an enclosed bag or be given to an administrator while a match is played.
On December 20 2013 23:56 Sly Faux wrote: I understand the reasons behind this, we need to act professional fi we are to be taken seriously, but this just rustle my jimmies. No offensive language, no in game chat... basically all the lovable friendly trash talk that really gets me hyped, is out. No more personalities everybody! Remember how much we loved Idra's "Fuck you" to Huk after that Halluc VR match? NO MORE OF THAT NOW!. Robots everybody, just play the game and get out.
4thelolz: No CHEATING!? Looks like the whole Protoss race is out... those advanced imbalanced theocratic dicks.
That's up to the player. In France, soccer player are fined all the time because they say things like : "Fuck you dickhead" to journalists. They are fined but still play (and win sometimes. (i don't follow football)).
To be faire the idrA "fuck you" happened in 2010/2011. We are in 2014 and it was the last time we saw something like that. Guess you have not been hyped for a long time sir.
(You might want to edit the 4thelolz line).
But... but the whole line was 4thelolz, of course it is going to be a hyperbolic with witty and, oh so, subtle remarks about something.
And I'm aware how long ago that happened, but I just always loved the in game chat. Most of it is friendly banter that we can all enjoy, but rarely, oh so rarely, it happens that someone express their utter disgust and rage, and that makes me smile. "Apologize for playing that race" Come on, we have all been there on ladder. Even, Jesus got angry that one time.
the no replay thing is I believe is great. it keeps up the tension from the viewers perspective, the players have to figure out their opponents within actual play, like solving a puzzle, and can look at the solution only after the competition is over. also should help with delays i like it
Wow holy shit Blizzard what else can you fuck up more?
Can't drink? Smoke? Say naughty language? chat to players? say anything during interviews?
The culture of their fans made them the company they are today, and they want to strip that from public eye. It's fucking sickening and it's happening everywhere in this pretentious, pussy world we live in today
On December 21 2013 00:07 FSKi wrote: Players can't watch replays between games? Doesn't this take away from the overall spectator experience? I'd rather have a minute or so delay and have a better game where players can actually adjust to each other, than build order wins(or other wonky stuff) due to broadcasting time constraints.
This.While not pertaining to these rules specifically, the way Jaedong was rushed from the semifinals into the finals of WCS Blizzcon seemed to contribute to his poor play. Going from a ZvT mindset into a ZvP mindset within 5 minutes can’t have been easy, while SoS had almost an hour to switch gears.
I'm 50/50 on whether I like this or not.. A lot of it seems like standard rules you shouldn't do that shit and I like the idea of the fines.
But at the same time we just got Korean players to start showing their personalities and doing ceremonies/trash talking. I hope this doesn't scare players away from actually being funny. I don't like the no in game chat rule kespa style either, Seeing players banter back and forth is fun. Instead of No in game chatting they should have made it no swearing/racism etc. and let the players talk to each other if they want too.
On December 20 2013 23:04 Waxangel wrote: No chatting
J. During the game, players may not use chat except for a greeting, closing, and request for pause.
Literally Kespa
Kespa run tournaments are more strict, they don't have a greeting and your pause and closing is also limited to only typing ppp and gg/GG. from what I see, awkward random typing such as 'gl , hf sweet kitten' (whatever) and lame GGs such as 'gg nice allin play good luck next round lol' are allowed? depends on how strict points A and B are, what's considered obscene gesture/unsportsmanlike.
On December 21 2013 00:07 FSKi wrote: Players can't watch replays between games? Doesn't this take away from the overall spectator experience? I'd rather have a minute or so delay and have a better game where players can actually adjust to each other, than build order wins(or other wonky stuff) due to broadcasting time constraints.
edit: I understand it can be used as a stall tactic between matches, but if they limit the amount of time players can watch replays instead, I believe it would be much better.
The problem is that it isn't a minute, it's like 5-10 minutes of review. Personally, I think it detracts from the game if players are allowed to review their opponents between matches. It just slows things down and SC2 events need to move faster, not slower.
Awesome stuff! Be it Idra, Destiny or Naniwa, none of them is great at showing sportsmanship or even being polite. They're all bothered with their "we're so awesome" shit that I can't stand it anymore.
I don't think we need to restrict the chat so severely, some banter or witty trash talk can be quite entertaining. As long the rules for offensive and insulting language are enforced, I don't really see a need to kill off all in-game chat.
Naniwa's "lol fuck" vs Jaedong still makes me smile, I'd hate to lose things like that completely.
On December 21 2013 00:20 Squat wrote: I don't think we need to restrict the chat so severely, some banter or witty trash talk can be quite entertaining. As long the rules for offensive and insulting language are enforced, I don't really see a need to kill off all in-game chat.
Naniwa's "lol fuck" vs Jaedong still makes me smile, I'd hate to lose things like that completely.
There's a huge difference between trash talk like "lol fuck" as in the Nani vs JD series, and a "how could I lose to the worst player in the world" vs that low-tier EU zerg..
Edit: I do think that tournament admins and blizzard guys will get the difference, they probably won't fine a "lol fuck" but they will fine the other shit.
Seems mostly fine to me except for no chatting. Players with personality are what people want. In my ideal ruleset there would be bonus prize pool money for best trasher talker.
•F. Alcohol – Players that are intoxicated during any event may be disqualified at the discretion of the tournament organizer.
Wow. This could actually be named the "Stephano-rule".
Doesn't matter, Stephano would just locate the nearest available female admin, take her out for dinner, a movie and who knows, and boom, he's instantly seeded into premier.
On December 21 2013 00:25 Noocta wrote: Honestly, I prefered when we tried to stop following Kespa's stupid rules instead of trying to be its replacement.
Agreed, but I like it when broadcasts move at a reasonable speed and players are expected to act at least mildly professional. Not trash talking in chat is fine, do that before the game in interviews.
This doesn't feel right! What about freedom of speech ? Seeing, reading real reactions and emotions of the players is way more interesting than "gl hf gg". And I bet everyone is use to offensive comments. Because guess what, to become good player you have to play ladder, where it happens all the time Hopefully there will still be players who don't comply, even if it costs money!
I was sad about the chat rule too. I think the less delay thing is really good from the watching point of view, but will we see less adaptation in series. I tought it was really exciting when people adapted to each other in series. Will this still be possible without replays.
People could be considered ready to play within 60 secs while they are watching a replay. You can go out very fast, if it was not for the requirement of being in X chatroom. Not sure if they could make it so the chatroom appears while they watch replay, is there such a thing .
On December 21 2013 00:22 Jonoman92 wrote: Seems mostly fine to me except for no chatting. Players with personality are what people want. In my ideal ruleset there would be bonus prize pool money for best trasher talker.
There are plenty other tournaments with a more relaxed setting and giving trash talk the room some people want it to have. I prefer the flagship tournament of SC2, which is WCS, to be the most professional possible. This also allows the Red Bull Battlegrounds and HSC to be all the more special.
In the rulebook, it is mentioned it is a 'living document', meaning it can/will be updated and amended along the way.
Either way, I totally feel the ingame chat should be allowed. Why is the rule even made? Did we have any troubles recently? Anything 'too offensive', should be taken action against, of course. It can't be that difficult to enforce, right?
You could even add a rule that says "if a player takes offense at any comment/behaviour of another player, or staff, the offended player may ask for a 5 minute break and/or ask for a penalty, which will be judged by " blablabla. /etc. ..
I'd like more entertainment/interaction/etc, not less. Ladies/Gents at Blizzard: give back chat, please.
I think many people dont like "he has to be manner in this tournament". It can produce "faceless" foreigners :D
what if a job interviewer (like RedEye/Incontrol/MrBitter) ask a player after the game some cocky questions like "protoss is a strong race isnt it?" It is a bit difficult to give a mannered answer to this question :D
On December 21 2013 00:22 Jonoman92 wrote: Seems mostly fine to me except for no chatting. Players with personality are what people want. In my ideal ruleset there would be bonus prize pool money for best trasher talker.
There are plenty other tournaments with a more relaxed setting and giving trash talk the room some people want it to have. I prefer the flagship tournament of SC2, which is WCS, to be the most professional possible. This also allows the Red Bull Battlegrounds and HSC to be all the more special.
There's different types of 'trash talking'. It needn't be offensive, necessarily. Also, you write "I prefer the flagship tournament of SC2, which is WCS, to be the most professional possible". So, 'more professional' = NO chat/talking at all?
i like how everything on here is exactly what online gaming is, yet people try to act so pc, i hate especially in america how talking trash is considered awful, when it is a part of human nature. lame
why are u all so upset about the no chat? i watch these matchs for the games not to read chat. the only time ingame chat happens is when its rage/trashtalking, and if i wanted to see that id just watch one of the many idra rage vids on youtube.
On December 21 2013 00:21 AlternativeEgo wrote: No replays? Is that the screams of anger by the European ex. wc3 players that I hear from afar? ;D
wc3 players didnt care about replays, they just release replays asap because seeing it werent useful. I didnt miss a single replay!
Your chance to win vs x after watching a replay from him is like ~5% higher. In sc2 rather 20-30% higher chance to win. That's why I dont want that they release replays.
On December 21 2013 00:37 DnCL wrote: I was sad about the chat rule too. I think the less delay thing is really good from the watching point of view, but will we see less adaptation in series. I tought it was really exciting when people adapted to each other in series. Will this still be possible without replays.
People could be considered ready to play within 60 secs while they are watching a replay. You can go out very fast, if it was not for the requirement of being in X chatroom. Not sure if they could make it so the chatroom appears while they watch replay, is there such a thing .
Doing so would be classified as cheating by expressly trying to bypass a rule. And allowing players to review replays lowers the over all skill of the set of games, because it doesn't reward the player who can make good reads souring the game and get information just by playing against someone.
On December 21 2013 00:50 Scones wrote: Can someone explain why you aren't allowed to chat?! I'm sure that would limit the personalities of some players
Is it to stop bad language, or to stop distracting your opponent or something else?
That comes from Kespa and I think they are trying to unify the scene as much as possible.
Sad to see some of these rules. Most of them make sense, even if they are a bit inflexible, but some are downright silly and hurt the character of the tournament. Thing always become less colorful when there's no room for anything that not "neat and proper". Chat can definitely add something to the came, so it's sad to see that this is outright banned. The language requirements is one of the worst things, since it restrains the players from expressing themselves how they naturally would like it. It's not those things where it's just sad that money, not common sense, rules, like with swear words being "beeped" in the United Stated. It also doesn't make sense that the tournaments organizers want to make themselves masters of whether the players take illegal substances or consume alcohol. The players will do what they feel best about, and obviously the players are there to compete, so they wont' show up shitfaced if they care about the competition. Shoutcasters not being allowed to comment negatively on players is outrageous. I don't really envision it being enforced, but if it makes the shoutcasters more nervous about what they can say, we are all worse off.
Of course, the positive connotation is that it's likely due to sponsor influence, which means that the sponsors, even if misguided, are quite invested in the event. And despite my reservations, I think it's likely that the more bad rules will not be enforced, but will just be something the organizers keep at hand in case they need a reason to disqualify someone or keep them in line.
On December 21 2013 00:50 Scones wrote: Can someone explain why you aren't allowed to chat?! I'm sure that would limit the personalities of some players
Is it to stop bad language, or to stop distracting your opponent or something else?
Sponsors that don't want to take the risk of their brand being associated with some player going on a homophobic/racist freak out session when they lose a match. Or to prevent players from making off color comments during a match and provide a clear rule to deal with it.
No trash talking? I do not agree with that. Saying "fuck you" to another player after being tricked/cheesed/completely undone in the last game is excellent and really sets the stage for the next game.
Now we'll just see robots, foreigners with the same facial expressions as koreans and its a quick "play 3 matches and out".
A lot of the rules, including the ones about alcohol and bad language, are "at the discretion of the tournament organizer." It still allows HomeStory Cup to be itself, while giving other tournaments the option to enforce things if they want. Seems pretty reasonable.
On December 21 2013 00:59 TheManInBlack wrote: No trash talking? I do not agree with that. Saying "fuck you" to another player after being tricked/cheesed/completely undone in the last game is excellent and really sets the stage for the next game.
Now we'll just see robots, foreigners with the same facial expressions as koreans and its a quick "play 3 matches and out".
Yes, you're so right. You're not exaggerating or anything. Get off this game, please.
On December 21 2013 00:59 TheManInBlack wrote: No trash talking? I do not agree with that. Saying "fuck you" to another player after being tricked/cheesed/completely undone in the last game is excellent and really sets the stage for the next game.
Now we'll just see robots, foreigners with the same facial expressions as koreans and its a quick "play 3 matches and out".
Saying fuck you is clearly offensive, and as such a breach of that rule as well. I'll just miss the kind of bizarre and hilarious conversations Stephano used to have in game with his opponent.
On December 21 2013 00:59 TheManInBlack wrote: No trash talking? I do not agree with that. Saying "fuck you" to another player after being tricked/cheesed/completely undone in the last game is excellent and really sets the stage for the next game.
Now we'll just see robots, foreigners with the same facial expressions as koreans and its a quick "play 3 matches and out".
Saying fuck you is clearly offensive, and as such a breach of that rule as well. I'll just miss the kind of bizarre and hilarious conversations Stephano used to have in game with his opponent.
On December 21 2013 00:59 TheManInBlack wrote: No trash talking? I do not agree with that. Saying "fuck you" to another player after being tricked/cheesed/completely undone in the last game is excellent and really sets the stage for the next game.
Now we'll just see robots, foreigners with the same facial expressions as koreans and its a quick "play 3 matches and out".
Yes, you're so right. You're not exaggerating or anything. Get off this game, please.
Yeah, that could be the dumbest comment in the thread so far. I don't get the problem with chat and peoples need to have the players start drama during a match. They get interviewed before and after the sets, so if the trash talking and hype is goin to happen, it will happen then.
The shoutcaster must treat all players with respect and cannot comment negatively on the player’s overall skill or character
I like this alot. Listening to Wolf bashing Tassadar to death was extremely annoying tbh
This is really weird, casters have to able to call out mistakes and talk about a player's tendencies and weaknesses. This sounds like they basically want the casters to brown-nose the players or not say anything. I wonder how Day9's awesome guffaw at Elfi's fail-fields would have been treated under these rules.
How long would it take before people begin to separate "Players must compete to the best of their ability at all times" from the match-fixing/ colluding section and make it its own rule.
A lot of these rules are just common sense professional stuff, its just now they are written and have a defined penalty for breaking them. Matching timing and the replay viewing will probably be broken the most, at least until people get used to it. Language could also be broken the most because of the what an overseer perceives as an obscure reference.
The shoutcaster must treat all players with respect and cannot comment negatively on the player’s overall skill or character
I like this alot. Listening to Wolf bashing Tassadar to death was extremely annoying tbh
This is really weird, casters have to able to call out mistakes and talk about a player's tendencies and weaknesses. This sounds like they basically want the casters to brown-nose the players or not say anything. I wonder how Day9's awesome guffaw at Elfi's fail-fields would have been treated under these rules.
I would assume they're allowed to call out mistakes, but will be talked to if they spend an entire series talking about how awful someone is.
The shoutcaster must treat all players with respect and cannot comment negatively on the player’s overall skill or character
I like this alot. Listening to Wolf bashing Tassadar to death was extremely annoying tbh
This is really weird, casters have to able to call out mistakes and talk about a player's tendencies and weaknesses. This sounds like they basically want the casters to brown-nose the players or not say anything. I wonder how Day9's awesome guffaw at Elfi's fail-fields would have been treated under these rules.
They can call out mistakes. They cant bash the players "over all play". They can even say they don't agree with the play style, but they can't call it shit.
Nuance is king. Or don't be a jerk. Artosis is pylons can be called out for what they are.
aww cmon blizzard. bm chat is fun. and bm is part of every sport. ever heard of "trash talk"? as long as the bm stays inside certain measures (no racism, no sexims, no political statements, etc.), it adds a lot of fun to the viewing experience. but well, we have to become more "professional", I guess.
why can't we be professional AND entertaining at the same time :/
A. Language – In all languages, players may not use obscene gestures, profanity and/or racist comments in game chat, lobby chat, or live interviews. This includes abbreviations and/or obscure references. Organizers reserve the right to enforce this at their own discretion. B. Behavior – Players are required to behave in a sportsmanlike manner towards other competitors, members of the administration team, media, and fans.
So everybody be like grubby now? Hotbid won`t do any interviews for any WCS event for sure. What about freedom of speech? Maybe nani should just be completly silent in all interviews as a form of protest, but maybe that is not sportsmanlike. First the USA now Blizzard, no fun allowed.
The fines are quite small actually. To me this says: "You can officially tell your opponent to get fucked at the cost of 5% of your winnings, if you so desire."
On December 21 2013 01:27 virpi wrote: aww cmon blizzard. bm chat is fun. and bm is part of every sport. ever heard of "trash talk"? as long as the bm stays inside certain measures (no racism, no sexims, no political statements, etc.), it adds a lot of fun to the viewing experience. but well, we have to become more "professional", I guess.
why can't we be professional AND entertaining at the same time :/
Trash talk in soccer is being punished with a yellow or red card, so I don't get your point. Since starcraft players will most likely not hit each other, their fighting with their tongue. trash talk like idra goes for is not fun at all.
On December 21 2013 01:27 virpi wrote: aww cmon blizzard. bm chat is fun. and bm is part of every sport. ever heard of "trash talk"? as long as the bm stays inside certain measures (no racism, no sexims, no political statements, etc.), it adds a lot of fun to the viewing experience. but well, we have to become more "professional", I guess.
why can't we be professional AND entertaining at the same time :/
Trash talk in soccer is being punished with a yellow or red card, so I don't get your point. Since starcraft players will most likely not hit each other, their fighting with their tongue. trash talk like idra goes for is not fun at all.
EDIT: My bad, missed a word in the post you replied to. Sorry. :/
I still think the rule as such is really stupid, though. I mean, obviously there should be ways to penalize players for going way out of line, but stopping the players from engaging in any kind of in-game banter is not helping entertainment value.
Also, I think what bothers me the most is the rule about players having to adress the tournament organisers first when they have an issue. Regulating what players say in chat is one thing, but why would you want to prevent them from expressing themselves via other channels such as twitter? Jokes about "freedom of speech" aside, why would we be ok with Blizzard penalizing or banning players for stating their opinion via networks that are outside of Blizzard's control?
On December 21 2013 01:36 Plansix wrote: The people citing "freedom of speech" are the best part of this thread.
Some don't know or remember the Kespan rule, which with I agree.
My favorite is some people say no alcohol at an event is bad. The players are showcasing the game. Having intoxicated players showcasing themselves like that could tarnish the events. That's saving themselves.
On December 20 2013 23:56 Sly Faux wrote: I understand the reasons behind this, we need to act professional fi we are to be taken seriously, but this just rustle my jimmies. No offensive language, no in game chat... basically all the lovable friendly trash talk that really gets me hyped, is out. No more personalities everybody! Remember how much we loved Idra's "Fuck you" to Huk after that Halluc VR match? NO MORE OF THAT NOW!. Robots everybody, just play the game and get out.
4thelolz: No CHEATING!? Looks like the whole Protoss race is out... those advanced imbalanced theocratic dicks.
That's up to the player. In France, soccer player are fined all the time because they say things like : "Fuck you dickhead" to journalists. They are fined but still play (and win sometimes. (i don't follow football)).
To be faire the idrA "fuck you" happened in 2010/2011. We are in 2014 and it was the last time we saw something like that. Guess you have not been hyped for a long time sir.
(You might want to edit the 4thelolz line).
But... but the whole line was 4thelolz, of course it is going to be a hyperbolic with witty and, oh so, subtle remarks about something.
And I'm aware how long ago that happened, but I just always loved the in game chat. Most of it is friendly banter that we can all enjoy, but rarely, oh so rarely, it happens that someone express their utter disgust and rage, and that makes me smile. "Apologize for playing that race" Come on, we have all been there on ladder. Even, Jesus got angry that one time.
Yeah but this is an E-sport tournament not a ladder game. It's quite different
I don't mind the no chat. It was like that in BW so maybe i'm just used to it.
Also a lot of those rules are hear in order to take care of possible problem. They won't fine someone for saying : "i like your trousers". Look at the first PL game of stefano. You'll see the difference with KespA
The no replay thing is a little bit weird. What is Life gonna do ?
This is wonderfull news! If they are really going to vigorously enforce all the bullshit points, and this really indicates the level of political correctness we are to expect in the following year, I may as well finally get to do something useful, instead of spending half of my time watching SC2.
About invoking freedom of speech, please don't, it makes you look silly. Blizzard is not a country and WCS is not a democracy. There is no freedom of speech. There is our way or the go-fuck-yourself way.
So pretty much the reasoning here is : "Lets take away everything that makes the sc2 community so great and make it stiff and boring". Those rules are ridiciolous, Make a dress code and act like corporate workers next time. This is Bullshit.
I'm just happy there's other competitive games where people aren't obsess with professionalism, rules, and trying to convince people that what they like is a legit sport of some kind...
On December 21 2013 01:27 virpi wrote: aww cmon blizzard. bm chat is fun. and bm is part of every sport. ever heard of "trash talk"? as long as the bm stays inside certain measures (no racism, no sexims, no political statements, etc.), it adds a lot of fun to the viewing experience. but well, we have to become more "professional", I guess.
why can't we be professional AND entertaining at the same time :/
Trash talk in soccer is being punished with a yellow or red card, so I don't get your point. Since starcraft players will most likely not hit each other, their fighting with their tongue. trash talk like idra goes for is not fun at all.
Ah, the classic "well since this is the way it is in AFK sports we need to follow suit"-line of thought.
Well no, we don't. Why the fuck should we care what people do in soccer?
To be fair, the statement boxerfred responded to claimed that "trash talk" is encouraged or at least least tolerated in "every sport", which simply isn't true.
As for the rulebook itself, I have only one thing to say
Guess that now everything's "strict" and "regulated" kinda feel bad for a few things:
1 - not being able to watch reps between games - might be OK, IDK though
2 - must accept invite within 1 minute - think that's a bit too harsh, should be 2 mins, cause feels BOTH - too restrictive in terms of mental stabilization as well as b.net itself..What if the game (while in game-menu) does some "non-responsive" readings that sometimes can occur.. ?
3 - No chat isn't, but also IS retarded = if you really want games to not have chat then why not automatically disable chat after min2 within the game and enable it back when you're below 50 supply once gone over it ?? Hell - why not even disable chat completely and just make the game itself send the "gl hf" messages at the beginning and the "gg" when a quit is requested ?
IDK why people disregard Naniwa about these, the only thing that's referred to him is the no-gg or the PvP is bullsh*t or sth that he sometimes does before the end.. The no-watch-replay between games will if anyone - hurt Zergs the most, or maybe in some special PvZ cases - Protoss - however - the point is - that's a clear Terran undeserved advantage IMO..
Like - not a bad thing in terms of how few Terrans we usually see at the events, but it's clearly an undeserved advantage TBH, like - even if the player got completely caught off-guard - can just scan to see what was going on before typing out the GG, that's a feature that the other 2 races can't afford, not to say that out of all of them Terran's like the most build-order immune race itself
so just wondering is dropping manner mules considered being unsportsmanlike because if so i dont like that. i like seeing players drops mules proxy nexus and hatches to bm a little it makes the game fun and makes rivalries, also i dont like that you cant say anything bad now without getting in trouble it takes away some personalities like mc and genius were mc said genius was bad or something,so will he get fined for that or not? not sure if i like all these rules i understand there trying to be professional but this is a game and most are young adults so were all going to bm/rage/talk shit every once and a while and it makes the game fun not having faceless players, also if you get bm then the next game is all the better because you want to crush this guy which make for better games imo
On December 21 2013 01:27 virpi wrote: aww cmon blizzard. bm chat is fun. and bm is part of every sport. ever heard of "trash talk"? as long as the bm stays inside certain measures (no racism, no sexims, no political statements, etc.), it adds a lot of fun to the viewing experience. but well, we have to become more "professional", I guess.
why can't we be professional AND entertaining at the same time :/
Trash talk in soccer is being punished with a yellow or red card, so I don't get your point. Since starcraft players will most likely not hit each other, their fighting with their tongue. trash talk like idra goes for is not fun at all.
Ah, the classic "well since this is the way it is in AFK sports we need to follow suit"-line of thought.
Well no, we don't. Why the fuck should we care what people do in soccer?
Because de poster of the original message said "every sport"??? Care to read before respond?
Punishing chat which does not have to be bad behavior and might actually be nice/funny but not punishing rude behavior like not writing gg or not writing gl hf or flaming the opponent at the end ("closing statement") seems misplaced.
Also I wonder if "may not use [...] racist comments" includes the starcraft races.
On December 21 2013 01:45 SirFailalot wrote: So pretty much the reasoning here is : "Lets take away everything that makes the sc2 community so great and make it stiff and boring". Those rules are ridiciolous, Make a dress code and act like corporate workers next time. This is Bullshit.
I'd be down with the dress code:
Players must be dressed as: A pirate, comic book hero of choice, a pro wrestler, a teletubby, a pokemon or go naked except for being wrapped in the flag of their country of origin. Naniwa must always wear a banana-suit.
This is so depressing. Wcs-rules that almost (for us that like entertaintment, anyway) seem inspired by the Russian guy with the moustache that died in the 50's. People being warned for just about anything on this site. Internet and society watched over by Big Brother making Orwells remindings weep tears of blood in his grave.
2014 is not going to be a good year on Tellus it seems.
I'm kinda surprised there's no rules about using a barcode account in a tournament setting. They should make it a rule to require players to use an account with their ID. It's a real distraction and can lead to some confusions when it's a mirror matchup between barcodes.
So, to make it constructive, does anyone know an interesting game to pick up watching? Requirements are interesting gameplay, an open-minded community where fun is allowed, enough content in english to watch, but without aspirations to become a "serious sport", ability to play it on a minimum-sc2-level hardware.
On December 21 2013 01:55 Bertholdz wrote: This is so depressing. Wcs-rules that almost (for us that like entertaintment, anyway) seem inspired by the Russian guy with the moustache that died in the 50's. People being warned for just about anything on this site. Internet and society watched over by Big Brother making Orwells remindings weep tears of blood in his grave.
2014 is not going to be a good year on Tellus it seems.
You're right, if we see more posts like this we might all die from collective brain malfunction
On December 21 2013 01:27 virpi wrote: aww cmon blizzard. bm chat is fun. and bm is part of every sport. ever heard of "trash talk"? as long as the bm stays inside certain measures (no racism, no sexims, no political statements, etc.), it adds a lot of fun to the viewing experience. but well, we have to become more "professional", I guess.
why can't we be professional AND entertaining at the same time :/
Trash talk in soccer is being punished with a yellow or red card, so I don't get your point. Since starcraft players will most likely not hit each other, their fighting with their tongue. trash talk like idra goes for is not fun at all.
Ah, the classic "well since this is the way it is in AFK sports we need to follow suit"-line of thought.
Well no, we don't. Why the fuck should we care what people do in soccer?
Because de poster of the original message said "every sport"??? Care to read before respond?
Yeah, you're right. I read it too quickly. Sorry. :/
Disagree with a few things. Having no chatting is sort of stupid. I feel like that should be entirely up to the players. Clearly Blizzard (or whoever came up with these) wants the game to be really SERIOUS. No fun, not ever!! The game would feel so impersonal without any chatting, too.
And no replays seems a bit silly. If both players are okay with it, then I'd much rather accommodate them over the viewers (by starting the match sooner?)
Another iffy one is the part with the no abusing "bugs". Obviously some bugs and "exploits" can be game-breaking, but there can always be some minors tricks and whatnot that people do. Blizzard gets butthurt when people find bugs in their game. I remember some guys in WoW got a world first for some raid by doing some trick, and Blizzard actually revoked their world first achievements.
I can tolerate the "Language" rules and others, though.
On December 21 2013 01:59 JustPassingBy wrote: Player cannot drink alcohol at a tournament? Wtf is that? Does that even hold when they are already eliminated???
They cannot show up to play intoxicated. Grabbing a beer or three the night before the tournament shouldn't be an issue, but showing up obviously drunk a la Stephano is another matter.
Don't know why some people are upset at what were already de facto rules being enforced on paper now. Players weren't really talking in the games anyway, yeah they were like last year (like Stephano) but almost no one does now.
On December 21 2013 01:55 Bertholdz wrote: This is so depressing. Wcs-rules that almost (for us that like entertaintment, anyway) seem inspired by the Russian guy with the moustache that died in the 50's. People being warned for just about anything on this site. Internet and society watched over by Big Brother making Orwells remindings weep tears of blood in his grave.
2014 is not going to be a good year on Tellus it seems.
You're right, if we see more posts like this we might all die from collective brain malfunction
On December 21 2013 01:58 opisska wrote: So, to make it constructive, does anyone know an interesting game to pick up watching? Requirements are interesting gameplay, an open-minded community where fun is allowed, enough content in english to watch, but without aspirations to become a "serious sport", ability to play it on a minimum-sc2-level hardware.
DotA until it catch the same stupid professionalism mentality, or the FGC if your skin is thick enough.
On December 21 2013 01:42 Squat wrote: There is our way or the go-fuck-yourself way.
also, don't go silly in the other direction to prove your point.
Blizzard must abide by the laws of whatever country they are in when executing a WCS event. fighting is a legal part of many minor hockey leagues. players get charged by the crown with assault for fighting.
the no alcohol thing is Blizzard saying they want SC2 to be in the 13+ or 14+ age group. they do not want the game to be "adults only". and they do not want alcohol marketed to minors. wise move on their part.
The language part is fine. It only affects in game chat, lobby, and live interviews. Players can swear all they want in the booth (assuming they don't put a mic in there).
On December 21 2013 01:47 lookfirewood wrote: Implement chat into the game engine.
Remove it in their own tournament!
"excellent" - M. Burns
Yeah there are a few holes in this argument
During games, I don't think so:
"J. During the game, players may not use chat except for a greeting, closing, and request for pause."
"GG GL HF", "GG" and "PP" is not "chat". It's automated, agreed upon, terms like a handshake in tennis or a pat on the shoulder in an MMA fight. Chatting is an exchange of conversation, rude or no, it's still about conversation.
On December 21 2013 01:36 Plansix wrote: The people citing "freedom of speech" are the best part of this thread.
Please tell me what´s so funny about that.
Freedom of Speech applies to governments repressing their people, not Sc2 players being told not to curse or be total assholes while in game.
That would be a better argument if all chatting besides "glhf" and "gg" were players being assholes - but it isn't. Some of the most memorable games ever have come from players joking and exchanging friendly banter without really being BM.
Preventing players from being total assholes makes sense, banning chat completely doesn't, freedom of speech or not.
On December 21 2013 01:27 virpi wrote: aww cmon blizzard. bm chat is fun. and bm is part of every sport. ever heard of "trash talk"? as long as the bm stays inside certain measures (no racism, no sexims, no political statements, etc.), it adds a lot of fun to the viewing experience. but well, we have to become more "professional", I guess.
why can't we be professional AND entertaining at the same time :/
It's different in other sports because 99% of the time the trash talk is between the players only, it's not typed out on a screen for all the viewers to see. And when the trash talk goes too far or they take it to offensive levels they are fined. It happens in other sports all the time. Or if a ref hears something offensive normally a penalty is given, and the discretion of the league to fine/penalize the players further.
To be honest I think having these rules laid out is more so for the sponsors than anything else, it shows potential sponsors that the sc2 Esports scene is trying to mature, and is good for gaining more serious professional sponsors for tournaments. Not to mention the majority of the rules are accompanied by the "at the discretion of the tournament organizers" line, so I would assume most of these won't be enforced with an "iron fist" or anything if it's deemed not too serious. Everything looks fine to me honestly, people need to read the whole sentences before complaining, because most of them are up to the tournament organizers to enforce, not an independent panel that are like super strict or something, so like people have said ASC/ATSC can still function as normally, and other tournaments looking for a more relaxed environment need not to worry.
I'm a bit confused about the handbook. Does this apply only to WCS tournaments (Regionals + Finals) or all tournaments that provide WCS points (IEMs, Asus ROGs, etc etc)?
OK, I clamed down a little, so I remembered the second worst thing I found reading it: if you want your tournament to be a part of the WCS system (which is almost necesarry for big tourneys), you must use ladder maps only. That's something that really sucks.
On December 21 2013 01:36 Plansix wrote: The people citing "freedom of speech" are the best part of this thread.
Please tell me what´s so funny about that.
Freedom of Speech applies to governments repressing their people, not Sc2 players being told not to curse or be total assholes while in game.
That would be a better argument if all chatting besides "glhf" and "gg" were players being assholes - but it isn't. Some of the most memorable games ever have come from players joking and exchanging friendly banter without really being BM.
Preventing players from being total assholes makes sense, banning chat completely doesn't, freedom of speech or not.
It's really not that big of a deal and by making this rule, it keeps blizzard from having to be the manner police and judge which comments are offensive and which are not. Players can talk in private if they want or make their opinion known in an interview.
everything is ok except that chat thing..... it was nice to see stephano salutes to his fans in that last game or when nerchio is saying something is imba (without BM or trash talk - his arguments only) or when something funny happens to put a smiley etc...
For the most part, I feel everything is fair and just. If the eSports community wants to be taken seriously as a sport then it needs to begin enforcing it's own set of rules and crack down on them.
The only thing that gets me personally though is the refusal for pro players to watch replays during matches. I feel that a player shouldn't be denied the ability to figure out why he lost immediately rather than potentially have it hang over his head as he heads into the next series.
On December 21 2013 01:27 virpi wrote: aww cmon blizzard. bm chat is fun. and bm is part of every sport. ever heard of "trash talk"? as long as the bm stays inside certain measures (no racism, no sexims, no political statements, etc.), it adds a lot of fun to the viewing experience. but well, we have to become more "professional", I guess.
why can't we be professional AND entertaining at the same time :/
It's different in other sports because 99% of the time the trash talk is between the players only, it's not typed out on a screen for all the viewers to see. And when the trash talk goes too far or they take it to offensive levels they are fined. It happens in other sports all the time. Or if a ref hears something offensive normally a penalty is given, and the discretion of the league to fine/penalize the players further.
To be honest I think having these rules laid out is more so for the sponsors than anything else, it shows potential sponsors that the sc2 Esports scene is trying to mature, and is good for gaining more serious professional sponsors for tournaments. Not to mention the majority of the rules are accompanied by the "at the discretion of the tournament organizers" line, so I would assume most of these won't be enforced with an "iron fist" or anything if it's deemed not too serious. Everything looks fine to me honestly, people need to read the whole sentences before complaining, because most of them are up to the tournament organizers to enforce, not an independent panel that are like super strict or something, so like people have said ASC/ATSC can still function as normally, and other tournaments looking for a more relaxed environment need not to worry.
I've seen that reasoning about professionality => sponsors before, and I'm not sure it would ever be an issue. If a company like Coca Cola being were investing in the SC2 scene, would players chatting (not necessarily being BM, mind you) be some kind of deal breaker?
I mean, EG managed to become the most well-sponsored team in the scene while still having Idra on the roster. He wasn't fired until after a loooong line of missteps.
On December 21 2013 01:45 SirFailalot wrote: So pretty much the reasoning here is : "Lets take away everything that makes the sc2 community so great and make it stiff and boring". Those rules are ridiciolous, Make a dress code and act like corporate workers next time. This is Bullshit.
On December 21 2013 01:36 Plansix wrote: The people citing "freedom of speech" are the best part of this thread.
Please tell me what´s so funny about that.
Freedom of Speech applies to governments repressing their people, not Sc2 players being told not to curse or be total assholes while in game.
That would be a better argument if all chatting besides "glhf" and "gg" were players being assholes - but it isn't. Some of the most memorable games ever have come from players joking and exchanging friendly banter without really being BM.
Preventing players from being total assholes makes sense, banning chat completely doesn't, freedom of speech or not.
It's really not that big of a deal
It is to some people (myself included), evidently. And even if it's not a big deal, it's still something that's going to hurt entertainment value (no matter how marginally) for a lot of viewers. If you want to provide a justification for this, you have to explain why it helps and why it's needed; just stating that it's not a big deal isn't enough.
and by making this rule, it keeps blizzard from having to be the manner police and judge which comments are offensive and which are not.
That explains why it's easier, not better. Bluntly manner policing everything is ok, but doing it on a case-by-case basis is not?
Besides, they made it through 2013 without having to police anything at all. Why would 2014 be any different?
Players can talk in private if they want or make their opinion known in an interview.
True. Still doesn't explain how this is an improvement, though.
On December 21 2013 01:55 Bertholdz wrote: This is so depressing. Wcs-rules that almost (for us that like entertaintment, anyway) seem inspired by the Russian guy with the moustache that died in the 50's. People being warned for just about anything on this site. Internet and society watched over by Big Brother making Orwells remindings weep tears of blood in his grave.
2014 is not going to be a good year on Tellus it seems.
User was warned for this post
i can't belive he was warned for this post but it gives bigger meaning for what he said - and he is right... corporate behaviour, turning people to robots etc.
On December 21 2013 01:58 opisska wrote: So, to make it constructive, does anyone know an interesting game to pick up watching? Requirements are interesting gameplay, an open-minded community where fun is allowed, enough content in english to watch, but without aspirations to become a "serious sport", ability to play it on a minimum-sc2-level hardware.
Someone mentioned it before... but the Fighting Game Community is everything you are looking for. I watch those tournament streams, and it is like players always casting, making jokes about each other/ to each other. When people lose there is a possibility for people in the crowd to get up and cheer like in an over the top fashion, which I'm sure would be defined as "unsportsman-like". What is even most intriguing is you can see players disrespecting each other just by how they play. This guy is so easy imma do this one combo only and win, etc. Seriously, those tournaments are like the good-ole LAN party days. Just game enthusiasts getting together doing what they love, having fun...none of this bullshit rules and regulations. They still get money, but it's like they play more for being the best than anything it seems. I dunno, I don't play fighting games that much, but I love that community and will always watch it because of that.
On December 21 2013 01:55 Bertholdz wrote: This is so depressing. Wcs-rules that almost (for us that like entertaintment, anyway) seem inspired by the Russian guy with the moustache that died in the 50's. People being warned for just about anything on this site. Internet and society watched over by Big Brother making Orwells remindings weep tears of blood in his grave.
2014 is not going to be a good year on Tellus it seems.
User was warned for this post
i can't belive he was warned for this post but it gives bigger meaning for what he said - and he is right... corporate behaviour, turning people to robots etc.
You talk as if the harsh TL moderation policy is something unique to 2014
On December 21 2013 01:36 Plansix wrote: The people citing "freedom of speech" are the best part of this thread.
Please tell me what´s so funny about that.
Freedom of Speech applies to governments repressing their people, not Sc2 players being told not to curse or be total assholes while in game.
That would be a better argument if all chatting besides "glhf" and "gg" were players being assholes - but it isn't. Some of the most memorable games ever have come from players joking and exchanging friendly banter without really being BM.
Preventing players from being total assholes makes sense, banning chat completely doesn't, freedom of speech or not.
It's really not that big of a deal
It is to some people (myself included), evidently. And even if it's not a big deal, it's still something that's going to hurt entertainment value (no matter how marginally) for a lot of viewers. If you want to provide a justification for this, you have to explain why it helps and why it's needed; just stating that it's not a big deal isn't enough.
Players can talk in private if they want or make their opinion known in an interview.
True. Still doesn't explain how this is an improvement, though.
It's like a rule requested by sponsors or the event runners to keep the process more civil and avoid people going full Idra. Sponsors do not like the drama associated with the bad behavior of players and this is likely a way for them to make clear rules on what is and is not allowed.
Imho all the bm stuff will be even MORE interesting: like for example naniwa gives out a f*** you and gets fined a % of his winnings and he does it multiple times and the more a player progresses in the tournament the more money that means which he doesn't get paid. And in the end one can see how much money they lost by being d****. It does't limit ingame chat, I think it is something to even more to look for.
What I'm concerned a bout here, is that say *IF* some qualifier is run in a shitty manner (and there have been some instances in the NA region), then the players have to adress it to the organizers first. That way the organizers are able to hide their possibly shitty practices.
There has to be a way open for players to directly file complaints to a staff unit at the Blizzard esports team. Thats also a goto then for late/no payments of price money (IPL anyone).
Whats wrong with being a little drunk in tourneys? If the player can still play, more fun for the viewers. Also ingame chat - more fun for the viewers!
In all honesty, the guy that wrote this, with the amount of useless rules and bureaucracy could be German... That's like German administration, totally.
On December 21 2013 02:33 dBdHellRider wrote: if Idra was on a tournament he whuldnt get any money at all :D
Well he likely wouldn't win in the first place, so no. I wonder if a player can be fined into negative numbers and end up owing Blizzard money. This could lead to world's first Esports collection agency, two interns show up at your house, and if you won't pay they pour coke over your keyboard and fill your USB ports with gum.
On December 21 2013 01:58 opisska wrote: So, to make it constructive, does anyone know an interesting game to pick up watching? Requirements are interesting gameplay, an open-minded community where fun is allowed, enough content in english to watch, but without aspirations to become a "serious sport", ability to play it on a minimum-sc2-level hardware.
Someone mentioned it before... but the Fighting Game Community is everything you are looking for. I watch those tournament streams, and it is like players always casting, making jokes about each other/ to each other. When people lose there is a possibility for people in the crowd to get up and cheer like in an over the top fashion, which I'm sure would be defined as "unsportsman-like". What is even most intriguing is you can see players disrespecting each other just by how they play. This guy is so easy imma do this one combo only and win, etc. Seriously, those tournaments are like the good-ole LAN party days. Just game enthusiasts getting together doing what they love, having fun...none of this bullshit rules and regulations. They still get money, but it's like they play more for being the best than anything it seems. I dunno, I don't play fighting games that much, but I love that community and will always watch it because of that.
Sounds fun I have never played a fighting game in my life, so it always seemed like an absurd thing to watch (and I had only a remote feeling that there may be some tournaments), but maybe I will give it a shot.
On December 21 2013 01:55 Bertholdz wrote: This is so depressing. Wcs-rules that almost (for us that like entertaintment, anyway) seem inspired by the Russian guy with the moustache that died in the 50's. People being warned for just about anything on this site. Internet and society watched over by Big Brother making Orwells remindings weep tears of blood in his grave.
2014 is not going to be a good year on Tellus it seems.
User was warned for this post
i can't belive he was warned for this post but it gives bigger meaning for what he said - and he is right... corporate behaviour, turning people to robots etc.
You talk as if the harsh TL moderation policy is something unique to 2014
no, it started with sc2 (but there was manifesto whit his rules at politics part and plexa that thinks racism is when you say someone is capitalist) but in 2013. everything was way more harsh than ever and those two guys weren't exception anymore - that behavior became a rule... maybe because of too many tournaments and users, maybe because fresh blood wants to show themselves, who knows...
but warning for that post is WOW, i'm surprised! it goes with blizzard/kespa rules
On December 21 2013 02:33 dBdHellRider wrote: if Idra was on a tournament he whuldnt get any money at all :D
Well he likely wouldn't win in the first place, so no. I wonder if a player can be fined into negative numbers and end up owing Blizzard money. This could lead to world's first Esports collection agency, two interns show up at your house, and if you won't pay they pour coke over your keyboard and fill your USB ports with gum.
I was actually wondering the same thing (well not about the collection part but the negative numbers anyway) - it'd be really cool (except for the players) if it could happen
Very happy with the no-replay watching, it always felt silly to me to do that while a match is being played.
I'm sad about the no-chatting rule. It's unnecessary. People are not robots. Obviously if it's used to distract the other player it should not be allowed but a little sentence here and there will not harm anyone.
The no profanity in interviews rule is so stupidly American sigh. Next they will start bleeping out words -_-
Wait, casters cant comment negatively on players skill? That's silly. Insulting their character seems out of line, but criricizing their play is half of the job.
On December 21 2013 01:55 Bertholdz wrote: This is so depressing. Wcs-rules that almost (for us that like entertaintment, anyway) seem inspired by the Russian guy with the moustache that died in the 50's. People being warned for just about anything on this site. Internet and society watched over by Big Brother making Orwells remindings weep tears of blood in his grave.
2014 is not going to be a good year on Tellus it seems.
User was warned for this post
i can't belive he was warned for this post but it gives bigger meaning for what he said - and he is right... corporate behaviour, turning people to robots etc.
You talk as if the harsh TL moderation policy is something unique to 2014
no, it started with sc2 (but there was manifesto whit his rules at politics part and plexa that thinks racism is when you say someone is capitalist) but in 2013. everything was way more harsh than ever and those two guys weren't exception anymore - that behavior became a rule... maybe because of too many tournaments and users, maybe because fresh blood wants to show themselves, who knows...
but warning for that post is WOW, i'm surprised! it goes with blizzard/kespa rules
Well, honestly, sc2 gave a lot more popularity to TeamLiquid, but that also included a lot of people that went over the top. I'm often a bit surprised by how harsh TL's moderation can be, but I understand it because of its roots as a pretty classy and trying to not be stupid community.
On December 21 2013 01:58 opisska wrote: So, to make it constructive, does anyone know an interesting game to pick up watching? Requirements are interesting gameplay, an open-minded community where fun is allowed, enough content in english to watch, but without aspirations to become a "serious sport", ability to play it on a minimum-sc2-level hardware.
Someone mentioned it before... but the Fighting Game Community is everything you are looking for. I watch those tournament streams, and it is like players always casting, making jokes about each other/ to each other. When people lose there is a possibility for people in the crowd to get up and cheer like in an over the top fashion, which I'm sure would be defined as "unsportsman-like". What is even most intriguing is you can see players disrespecting each other just by how they play. This guy is so easy imma do this one combo only and win, etc. Seriously, those tournaments are like the good-ole LAN party days. Just game enthusiasts getting together doing what they love, having fun...none of this bullshit rules and regulations. They still get money, but it's like they play more for being the best than anything it seems. I dunno, I don't play fighting games that much, but I love that community and will always watch it because of that.
Sounds fun I have never played a fighting game in my life, so it always seemed like an absurd thing to watch (and I had only a remote feeling that there may be some tournaments), but maybe I will give it a shot.
the FGC is hype, they dont take themselves too seriously. i honestly always have more fun watching a FGC major than any other game.
oh and the money match drama is always awesome to watch.
On December 21 2013 02:46 packrat386 wrote: Wait, casters cant comment negatively on players skill? That's silly. Insulting their character seems out of line, but criricizing their play is half of the job.
On December 21 2013 02:46 packrat386 wrote: Wait, casters cant comment negatively on players skill? That's silly. Insulting their character seems out of line, but criricizing their play is half of the job.
Oh wow I missed that rule. That is so lame.
Basically the caster can't just say "X player is bad," but instead why a decision lead them to lose. PC/professional.
On December 21 2013 02:46 packrat386 wrote: Wait, casters cant comment negatively on players skill? That's silly. Insulting their character seems out of line, but criricizing their play is half of the job.
Oh wow I missed that rule. That is so lame.
I mean as long as they only enforce really excessive cases (just bashing one player for the whole game) it doesn't seem too bad. I just worry that it will make casters too bubbly. When players make a bad decision the casters should point that out.
On December 21 2013 02:46 packrat386 wrote: Wait, casters cant comment negatively on players skill? That's silly. Insulting their character seems out of line, but criricizing their play is half of the job.
Oh wow I missed that rule. That is so lame.
It won't prevent casters from criticising decisions, but it'll stop casters from going "This is why player X is such a bad player" or "Here we can clearly see why player Y is the worse player of the two", none of which is really something we need to hear from tournament casters in the first place unless it's a funmatch.
On December 21 2013 02:49 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
On December 21 2013 02:46 packrat386 wrote: Wait, casters cant comment negatively on players skill? That's silly. Insulting their character seems out of line, but criricizing their play is half of the job.
Oh wow I missed that rule. That is so lame.
It won't prevent casters from criticising decisions, but it'll stop casters from going "This is why player X is such a bad player" or "Here we can clearly see why player Y is the worse player of the two", none of which is really something we need to hear from tournament casters in the first place unless it's a funmatch.
Eh, this sort of honesty is the kind of thing that really draws me to a few casters in particular.
On December 21 2013 02:49 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
On December 21 2013 02:46 packrat386 wrote: Wait, casters cant comment negatively on players skill? That's silly. Insulting their character seems out of line, but criricizing their play is half of the job.
Oh wow I missed that rule. That is so lame.
I mean as long as they only enforce really excessive cases (just bashing one player for the whole game) it doesn't seem too bad. I just worry that it will make casters too bubbly. When players make a bad decision the casters should point that out.
Nothing will stop artosis from being artosis. We are safe from overly bubbly casters I think.
On December 21 2013 02:49 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
On December 21 2013 02:46 packrat386 wrote: Wait, casters cant comment negatively on players skill? That's silly. Insulting their character seems out of line, but criricizing their play is half of the job.
Oh wow I missed that rule. That is so lame.
It won't prevent casters from criticising decisions, but it'll stop casters from going "This is why player X is such a bad player" or "Here we can clearly see why player Y is the worse player of the two", none of which is really something we need to hear from tournament casters in the first place unless it's a funmatch.
we hear this all the time at homestory, and people love that shit, even if its meant to be a joking way.
Replay packs may be made public after the conclusion of the season in which the original game was played.
Come on just make it so they HAVE to release it to the public after a season. People with connections like Day9 can without problems get access to a WCS replay while others cant. It could make more people invest more time into creating youtube content surrounding it.
The shoutcaster must treat all players with respect and cannot comment negatively on the player’s overall skill or character
borderline censorship, or I'm misinterpreting? "negatively" can have a broad definition
I love it when casters call out on the bullshit some kids do, but oh well, guess blizz doesn't want any depreciation of their product, which from a corporative point of view, is reasonable, but still smells bad for some of us viewers IMO.
On December 21 2013 02:49 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
On December 21 2013 02:46 packrat386 wrote: Wait, casters cant comment negatively on players skill? That's silly. Insulting their character seems out of line, but criricizing their play is half of the job.
Oh wow I missed that rule. That is so lame.
It won't prevent casters from criticising decisions, but it'll stop casters from going "This is why player X is such a bad player" or "Here we can clearly see why player Y is the worse player of the two", none of which is really something we need to hear from tournament casters in the first place unless it's a funmatch.
Eh, this sort of honesty is the kind of thing that really draws me to a few casters in particular.
And that's fine, they'll still be casting like that at Homestory Cups or (maybe) non-WCS tournaments, but if Blizzard aims to make WCS a professionally run tournament I think casters not going "Tassadar sucks" is a pretty reasonable standard, and I know such casting (in GSL/GSTL) has upset a few people in the past.
On December 21 2013 02:33 dBdHellRider wrote: if Idra was on a tournament he whuldnt get any money at all :D
Well he likely wouldn't win in the first place, so no. I wonder if a player can be fined into negative numbers and end up owing Blizzard money. This could lead to world's first Esports collection agency, two interns show up at your house, and if you won't pay they pour coke over your keyboard and fill your USB ports with gum.
I was actually wondering the same thing (well not about the collection part but the negative numbers anyway) - it'd be really cool (except for the players) if it could happen
But how would you be able to get a negative number if it is based on % of earnings? And would you actually get money if you broke a rule when in the negative? Someone call gedatsu
On December 21 2013 02:49 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
On December 21 2013 02:46 packrat386 wrote: Wait, casters cant comment negatively on players skill? That's silly. Insulting their character seems out of line, but criricizing their play is half of the job.
Oh wow I missed that rule. That is so lame.
It won't prevent casters from criticising decisions, but it'll stop casters from going "This is why player X is such a bad player" or "Here we can clearly see why player Y is the worse player of the two", none of which is really something we need to hear from tournament casters in the first place unless it's a funmatch.
Eh, this sort of honesty is the kind of thing that really draws me to a few casters in particular.
And that's fine, they'll still be casting like that at Homestory Cups or (maybe) non-WCS tournaments, but if Blizzard aims to make WCS a professionally run tournament I think casters not going "Tassadar sucks" is a pretty reasonable standard, and I know such casting (in GSL/GSTL) has upset a few people in the past.
Fair enough. I don't think the rule is that problematic. I just hope they don't interpret it too strictly. Casting without criticism can get bland unless the game really is that good.
On December 21 2013 02:33 dBdHellRider wrote: if Idra was on a tournament he whuldnt get any money at all :D
Well he likely wouldn't win in the first place, so no. I wonder if a player can be fined into negative numbers and end up owing Blizzard money. This could lead to world's first Esports collection agency, two interns show up at your house, and if you won't pay they pour coke over your keyboard and fill your USB ports with gum.
I was actually wondering the same thing (well not about the collection part but the negative numbers anyway) - it'd be really cool (except for the players) if it could happen
But how would you be able to get a negative number if it is based on % of earnings? And would you actually get money if you broke a rule when in the negative? Someone call gedatsu
I thought it was a flat -5% of the (original) #x prize money. So if the prize for first place is $1000, each penalty would remove $50. Otherwise, obviously, it wouldn't work :/
On December 21 2013 02:49 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
On December 21 2013 02:46 packrat386 wrote: Wait, casters cant comment negatively on players skill? That's silly. Insulting their character seems out of line, but criricizing their play is half of the job.
Oh wow I missed that rule. That is so lame.
It won't prevent casters from criticising decisions, but it'll stop casters from going "This is why player X is such a bad player" or "Here we can clearly see why player Y is the worse player of the two", none of which is really something we need to hear from tournament casters in the first place unless it's a funmatch.
Or it might just censor casters altogether. I mean with a rule in place, why would someone risk a comment that's open for interpretation (as player bashing)? It's not like overly critical casters get a free pass from the fanbase anyhow.
I'd much rather have a genuine cast (if it's too negative then I can just tune out/watch a different stream), rather than a uniform PC casting style.
On December 21 2013 01:36 Plansix wrote: The people citing "freedom of speech" are the best part of this thread.
Please tell me what´s so funny about that.
Freedom of Speech applies to governments repressing their people, not Sc2 players being told not to curse or be total assholes while in game.
That would be a better argument if all chatting besides "glhf" and "gg" were players being assholes - but it isn't. Some of the most memorable games ever have come from players joking and exchanging friendly banter without really being BM.
Preventing players from being total assholes makes sense, banning chat completely doesn't, freedom of speech or not.
It's really not that big of a deal
It is to some people (myself included), evidently. And even if it's not a big deal, it's still something that's going to hurt entertainment value (no matter how marginally) for a lot of viewers. If you want to provide a justification for this, you have to explain why it helps and why it's needed; just stating that it's not a big deal isn't enough.
and by making this rule, it keeps blizzard from having to be the manner police and judge which comments are offensive and which are not.
That explains why it's easier, not better. Bluntly manner policing everything is ok, but doing it on a case-by-case basis is not?
Besides, they made it through 2013 without having to police anything at all. Why would 2014 be any different?
Players can talk in private if they want or make their opinion known in an interview.
True. Still doesn't explain how this is an improvement, though.
It's like a rule requested by sponsors or the event runners to keep the process more civil and avoid people going full Idra. Sponsors do not like the drama associated with the bad behavior of players and this is likely a way for them to make clear rules on what is and is not allowed.
there are plently of things I don't really understand with this line of thought.
As a pointed out in another post, EG had no problems becoming the most well-sponsored team in the scene with Idra on the roster. It wasn't until he started asking people to die of cancer, trash-talk the community and forfeit WCS-games that he ended up fired. If anything, his attitude helped him get more fans AND make him more marketable, and the same goes for many other "controversial" players (Naniwa, Stephano, etc).
I mean, of course there are sponsors who are not comfortable with certain player behavior (which is why Idra was ultimately fired), but if this is coming from the sponsors, it's something they should have taken to their respective teams and not tried to force on WCS. Are there even any sponsors who could have any say on WCS rules besides Blizzard?
And if this is a request coming from event runners, why have they not had similar rules on their own, respective, non-WCS events in the past? ESL have had no non-chat rule on any of their tournaments, AFAIK. Neither have NASL, or even Gom. If this is coming from them, why now and not before?
And even if there was someone responsible for paying for WCS in any capacity who were concerned about a player going "full Idra", why would we find it justified to censor (stong word, but that's ultimately what it is) ALL players from expressing, well, ANYTHING in the in-game chat because of something one or two players MIGHT do? And looking at the bigger picture, why would we want the Starcraft-scene to develop in that direction? Why would we want a game where players constantly have to watch what they say or do - not because of what the audience might think, but because of the opinions of a a sponsor?
I mean, sure, you have to draw a line somewhere. I don't want players to get away with dropping racial slurs or actual serious threats in a tournament game, but when has that ever been an issue in the past? And even if it had been an issue, is it a big enough problem to justify blocking players from chatting AT ALL?
On December 21 2013 02:33 dBdHellRider wrote: if Idra was on a tournament he whuldnt get any money at all :D
Well he likely wouldn't win in the first place, so no. I wonder if a player can be fined into negative numbers and end up owing Blizzard money. This could lead to world's first Esports collection agency, two interns show up at your house, and if you won't pay they pour coke over your keyboard and fill your USB ports with gum.
I was actually wondering the same thing (well not about the collection part but the negative numbers anyway) - it'd be really cool (except for the players) if it could happen
But how would you be able to get a negative number if it is based on % of earnings? And would you actually get money if you broke a rule when in the negative? Someone call gedatsu
I was thinking if you are penalized 110% of total prize money, you end up winning a total of 5k during the season, meaning you end up with a 500 dollar deficit.
This could lead to some funny situations where players would have to lose to avoid going bankrupt. But not on purpose because then they get fined even more.
If you would actually get money when in the negative...someone get Hovz on the phone.
On December 21 2013 00:07 Squat wrote: D. Communication & Storage Devices – Players must consult with the organizer before bringing electronic storage devices to any event and are not allowed to use any mobile or external communication equipment during a match. All personal equipment must be in an enclosed bag or be given to an administrator while a match is played.
Scarlett is fucked.
I've been out of the scene for almost a year. What did I miss about Scarlett and this clause?
On December 21 2013 00:07 Squat wrote: D. Communication & Storage Devices – Players must consult with the organizer before bringing electronic storage devices to any event and are not allowed to use any mobile or external communication equipment during a match. All personal equipment must be in an enclosed bag or be given to an administrator while a match is played.
Scarlett is fucked.
I've been out of the scene for almost a year. What did I miss about Scarlett and this clause?
On December 21 2013 00:20 Squat wrote: I don't think we need to restrict the chat so severely, some banter or witty trash talk can be quite entertaining. As long the rules for offensive and insulting language are enforced, I don't really see a need to kill off all in-game chat.
Naniwa's "lol fuck" vs Jaedong still makes me smile, I'd hate to lose things like that completely.
In that case you would have endless debates if Naniwa really said something for serious or if he was only joking. Or is something a cultural thing in Sweden/Scandinavia or just rude behavior.
Naniwa haters, Faniwa haters and Faniwas would get into never ending debate over stuff like that.
On December 21 2013 00:07 Squat wrote: D. Communication & Storage Devices – Players must consult with the organizer before bringing electronic storage devices to any event and are not allowed to use any mobile or external communication equipment during a match. All personal equipment must be in an enclosed bag or be given to an administrator while a match is played.
Scarlett is fucked.
I've been out of the scene for almost a year. What did I miss about Scarlett and this clause?
Listen guys, there's no shortage of 'BM' and 'Trashtalk' and 'Personality' (w/e the fuck that means, being a dick most often). If you want to go see a bunch of post-adolescents whining and yelling at each other and being offensive then go to...
Oh wait, you're already on the internet. Just stay here.
The point is SC2 is a competitive game. The entertainment comes from....the game. I know that's some kind of blasphemy in the foreign scene but it's true.
Sometimes I feel like there needs to be a game called Personality Craft so all the people that watch the game for whack foreigner bm can play that.
On December 21 2013 02:49 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
On December 21 2013 02:46 packrat386 wrote: Wait, casters cant comment negatively on players skill? That's silly. Insulting their character seems out of line, but criricizing their play is half of the job.
Oh wow I missed that rule. That is so lame.
It won't prevent casters from criticising decisions, but it'll stop casters from going "This is why player X is such a bad player" or "Here we can clearly see why player Y is the worse player of the two", none of which is really something we need to hear from tournament casters in the first place unless it's a funmatch.
Or it might just censor casters altogether. I mean with a rule in place, why would someone risk a comment that's open for interpretation (as player bashing)? It's not like overly critical casters get a free pass from the fanbase anyhow.
I'd much rather have a genuine cast (if it's too negative then I can just tune out/watch a different stream), rather than a uniform PC casting style.
I know A LOT of players complain about it, so that's probably why it was implemented.
On December 21 2013 03:10 Rjlraymond wrote: Listen guys, there's no shortage of 'BM' and 'Trashtalk' and 'Personality' (w/e the fuck that means, being a dick most often). If you want to go see a bunch of post-adolescents whining and yelling at each other and being offensive then go to...
Oh wait, you're already on the internet. Just stay here.
The point is SC2 is a competitive game. The entertainment comes from....the game. I know that's some kind of blasphemy in the foreign scene but it's true.
Sometimes I feel like there needs to be a game called Personality Craft so all the people that watch the game for whack foreigner bm can play that.
Why would entertainment from the game and entertainment from the personality of the players be mutually exclusive?
It's not surprising to see WCS tighten up their ship like this. Looking at the NFL (the most successful sports league in America) as a guide, it makes sense to have all league-related things be pretty serious and let the media and community interaction reveal personality. The league is responsible for maintaining the dignity of the competition while the media is responsible for livening it up. It's so strict in the NFL that fans jokingly call it the "No Fun League" every time a player receives a warning or a fine for their relatively harmless behavior.
I agree with the rules based around keeping the tournament running in a smooth fashion (eg: no replays between games). Strongly disagree with all the rules in place that hamstring players and casters personality.
No high-level caster has made it to the position they are in now by being dicks. I've heard Artosis swear multiple times while in the GOM studio because he gets involved in the subject he's talking about. I love that. What's the point of making an ESRB Teen game: TEEN Content is generally suitable for ages 13 and up. May contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling and/or infrequent use of strong language. and then banning occasional language?
What does: The shoutcaster must treat all players with respect and cannot comment negatively on the player’s overall skill or character even mean? Can a caster disagree with a players build order choice? Can they say they've just done some bad forcefields? If they do, do they have to back it up with X, Y and Z reasons why?
How are analytical casters meant to inform viewers if they can't say: "Player X made a bad choice in that situation because..." "Wow It looks like Innovation just broke mentally against Soulkey in this GSL final!"?
Seems like someone complied a list of the worst offences in Starcraft history and just said: "Ok...just ban everything." without thinking about how much personality brings to entertainment value.
Seems like these rules are so open ended that a lot of people will get let off, some who trip up will probably get passes because of who they are and some might screw up and then have the whole book thrown at them by the letter of the law, not the spirit.
On December 21 2013 03:22 Dubag wrote: I agree with the rules based around keeping the tournament running in a smooth fashion (eg: no replays between games). Strongly disagree with all the rules in place that hamstring players and casters personality.
No high-level caster has made it to the position they are in now by being dicks. I've heard Artosis swear multiple times while in the GOM studio because he gets involved in the subject he's talking about. I love that. What's the point of making an ESRB Teen game: TEEN Content is generally suitable for ages 13 and up. May contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling and/or infrequent use of strong language. and then banning occasional language?
What does: The shoutcaster must treat all players with respect and cannot comment negatively on the player’s overall skill or character even mean? Can a caster disagree with a players build order choice? Can they say they've just done some bad forcefields? If they do, do they have to back it up with X, Y and Z reasons why?
How are analytical casters meant to inform viewers if they can't say: "Player X made a bad choice in that situation because..." "Wow It looks like Innovation just broke mentally against Soulkey in this GSL final!"?
Seems like someone complied a list of the worst offences in Starcraft history and just said: "Ok...just ban everything." without thinking about how much personality brings to entertainment value.
Seems like these rules are so open ended that a lot of people will get let off, some who trip up will probably get passes because of who they are and some might screw up and then have the whole book thrown at them by the letter of the law, not the spirit.
It says they can't comment negatively on the "overall skill" of a player, that doesn't mean they can't do a technical analysis of the game... what they can't say is stuff like "This player is really bad, he always allin he didn't deserve the win", which is a quite obvious form of respect, the rules just puts it on paper.
On December 21 2013 03:27 IntoTheheart wrote: Is there any ruling on what games you may or may not stream?
No, they're not Riot.
Which I love people complaining about too many rules for WCS and before they complained not enough done to make it professional. People complain about minutiae.
I love that they do not allow players to watch replays. It's annoying as hell when some players just don't give a fuck about the match and start watching replays after every game in a major tournament.
J. During the game, players may not use chat except for a greeting, closing, and request for pause.
Honestly, most of the balance whining and quirky comments happened in the closing, so it really depends if the tournaments will let people say things like "Nice race you're playing there. GG", which isn't prohibited by this rule. Also you're allowed one warning per day, so some players might make us of that.
Lol, I think this is quite a strict. I guess its good if they want to be really professional or something, but if I was a progamer I think I would definately perform better and show better games in a more relaxed tournament environment. Would be interesting to see what the progamers think about this. Lol.
It is fine, that tournaments run strict. If you wana be bm, use twitter. Obviously sometimes it is nice to have more laidback tournaments ala Homestory Cup.
On December 20 2013 23:04 Waxangel wrote: H. Software Exploitation – Any intentional use of any bugs or exploits in the game may result in a forfeit of the match and disqualification from the tournament. Bugs and exploits will be determined at the discretion of Blizzard Entertainment.
I feel like this should be at the discretion of the tournament organizer. Aside from that I'm cool with the rest.
The no chat thing seems totally out of the blue. When has chat ever been a problem? That's what everyone wants to see. Chat! But seeing as blizz is clueless on making battlenet more social....
On December 21 2013 04:01 TRaFFiC wrote: The no chat thing seems totally out of the blue. When has chat ever been a problem? That's what everyone wants to see. Chat! But seeing as blizz is clueless on making battlenet more social....
I didn't watch a single WCG game that had more then GL, HF, GG, WP. Thats all they every write anyways.
On December 21 2013 04:01 TRaFFiC wrote: The no chat thing seems totally out of the blue. When has chat ever been a problem? That's what everyone wants to see. Chat! But seeing as blizz is clueless on making battlenet more social....
Because during a WCS game I care about social and not the playing.
On December 21 2013 04:01 TRaFFiC wrote: The no chat thing seems totally out of the blue. When has chat ever been a problem? That's what everyone wants to see. Chat! But seeing as blizz is clueless on making battlenet more social....
I didn't watch a single WCG game that had more then GL, HF, GG, WP. Thats all they every write anyways.
"I CAN'T BELIEVE I'M PLAYING SO RISKY AGAINST THE WORST PLAYER IN THE WORLD" I also choose to raise my pitchforks over this, blizzard taking MUH FREEDOMS
On December 21 2013 04:01 TRaFFiC wrote: The no chat thing seems totally out of the blue. When has chat ever been a problem? That's what everyone wants to see. Chat! But seeing as blizz is clueless on making battlenet more social....
I didn't watch a single WCG game that had more then GL, HF, GG, WP. Thats all they every write anyways.
"I CAN'T BELIEVE I'M PLAYING SO RISKY AGAINST THE WORST PLAYER IN THE WORLD"
I'm still partial to "IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA"
It will live forever in my heart. I seem to recall Nani having a pretty amusing reaction to having his colossi abducted by TLO in a basetrade situation. If someone knows where that game can be seen I shall be eternally grateful.
On December 21 2013 04:01 TRaFFiC wrote: The no chat thing seems totally out of the blue. When has chat ever been a problem? That's what everyone wants to see. Chat! But seeing as blizz is clueless on making battlenet more social....
Because during a WCS game I care about social and not the playing.
When Nerchio loses to Protoss, I want to see his true rage. I want to see him write a paragraph about how the guy should be ashamed to use the imba race. Not just gg.
Whether you agree with it or not, this is what gives huge viewer numbers. People love passionate players, not robots.
On December 21 2013 04:01 TRaFFiC wrote: The no chat thing seems totally out of the blue. When has chat ever been a problem? That's what everyone wants to see. Chat! But seeing as blizz is clueless on making battlenet more social....
Because during a WCS game I care about social and not the playing.
When Nerchio loses to Protoss, I want to see his true rage. I want to see him write a paragraph about how the guy should be ashamed to use the imba race. Not just gg.
Whether you agree with it or not, this is what gives huge viewer numbers. People love passionate players, not robots.
To be fair nerchio does a pretty good job letting out the balance whine in the LR anyway
On December 21 2013 04:01 TRaFFiC wrote: The no chat thing seems totally out of the blue. When has chat ever been a problem? That's what everyone wants to see. Chat! But seeing as blizz is clueless on making battlenet more social....
Because during a WCS game I care about social and not the playing.
When Nerchio loses to Protoss, I want to see his true rage. I want to see him write a paragraph about how the guy should be ashamed to use the imba race. Not just gg.
Whether you agree with it or not, this is what gives huge viewer numbers. People love passionate players, not robots.
As evidenced by the Blizzcon grand finals, for example. Without all the BM in that match, it wouldn't even have broken 100k viewers.
On December 21 2013 04:01 TRaFFiC wrote: The no chat thing seems totally out of the blue. When has chat ever been a problem? That's what everyone wants to see. Chat! But seeing as blizz is clueless on making battlenet more social....
Because during a WCS game I care about social and not the playing.
When Nerchio loses to Protoss, I want to see his true rage. I want to see him write a paragraph about how the guy should be ashamed to use the imba race. Not just gg.
Whether you agree with it or not, this is what gives huge viewer numbers. People love passionate players, not robots.
As evidenced by the Blizzcon grand finals, for example. Without all the BM in that match, it wouldn't even have broken 100k viewers.
But if that had been Nerchio raging after every game it would have been 200k, guaranteed. Maybe have an emote system like in WoW.
if you look at these rules and really think about the WCS tournaments of 2013, you'll realize that hardly anything will change. in fact, it will probably be MORE fun because now Naniwa will not only say something stupid, he will also get fined for it and then say something stupid about how the rules are stupid because he got fined for saying something stupid. i welcome the replay thing, i don't think watching a replay helps much in MOST cases anyways, and the amount of downtime in most sc2 tournaments has been ridiculous to the point where i have often just stopped watching in the middle of a tournament.
On December 21 2013 04:13 Schelim wrote: if you look at these rules and really think about the WCS tournaments of 2013, you'll realize that hardly anything will change. in fact, it will probably be MORE fun because now Naniwa will not only say something stupid, he will also get fined for it and then say something stupid about how the rules are stupid because he got fined for saying something stupid. i welcome the replay thing, i don't think watching a replay helps much in MOST cases anyways, and the amount of downtime in most sc2 tournaments has been ridiculous to the point where i have often just stopped watching in the middle of a tournament.
The replay rule was, according to Adebisi (stated in this thread) already a thing in WCS this year, so it's not actually something new.
Pretty lame ruleset, but that's what we get when a bunch of corporate fags are writing the rules. Yes lets all be robots, show no emotion, just purchase all the shit thrown at us, lets behave and bend over and take it like a slut.
On December 21 2013 04:13 Schelim wrote: if you look at these rules and really think about the WCS tournaments of 2013, you'll realize that hardly anything will change. in fact, it will probably be MORE fun because now Naniwa will not only say something stupid, he will also get fined for it and then say something stupid about how the rules are stupid because he got fined for saying something stupid. i welcome the replay thing, i don't think watching a replay helps much in MOST cases anyways, and the amount of downtime in most sc2 tournaments has been ridiculous to the point where i have often just stopped watching in the middle of a tournament.
This guy is pretty smart. Not a lot is going to change for viewers, except it will be really funny when someone get dinged for saying something stupid.
On December 20 2013 23:36 MajOr wrote: I. Players may switch races after each match. < retarded
That rule is never going to be used and in case it is used it will be amazing and absolutely reward skill. Being able to play multiple races in a single series nothing to look down upon or to obstruct with a ruleset.
I've always been lead to understand a Bo3 is a match and each individual map is a set. That's how it always was on GomTV.
On December 20 2013 23:36 MajOr wrote: I. Players may switch races after each match. < retarded
That rule is never going to be used and in case it is used it will be amazing and absolutely reward skill. Being able to play multiple races in a single series nothing to look down upon or to obstruct with a ruleset.
I've always been lead to understand a Bo3 is a match and each individual map is a set. That's how it always was on GomTV.
Blizzard should really clarify.
A Bo3 is a set of matches/maps. Think of it as a set of adorable tea cups. One cup does not make a set.
I don't think in-game chat is a good platform for showing personality. Many tournaments have pregame and postgame interviews. Many tournaments have a camera on the players while they play. Many tournaments show the winner for 30 seconds after the match to allow them to show some kind of celebration or reaction. And beyond all that, there are a million other outlets for getting messages out to the public. The time spent in-game during a tournament is dedicated to the game itself, to the performance of the players.
Yeah it's exciting when players do unexpected things and say unexpected things and when they cross the line. I'm not surprised that such moments are a lot of fans' favorites. But I think keeping them taboo and keeping them infrequent contributes to their value. If players were disrespectful and whimsical during tournaments and during actual games with any amount of regularity, then it'd be a shit show.
In general its not wierd. They fund WCS and its normal u follow some rules. I dont mind a penalty against bad behaviour either, its a bit like a speedingticket. Although it makes me wonder why they introduced it. Did something happen during WCS this year that they think they need this because u know it will allways give badpress for your company in the start? Anyone?
On December 20 2013 23:36 MajOr wrote: I. Players may switch races after each match. < retarded
That rule is never going to be used and in case it is used it will be amazing and absolutely reward skill. Being able to play multiple races in a single series nothing to look down upon or to obstruct with a ruleset.
I'm pretty sure what they mean by the wording of that rule is that you must play as one race for an entire series, but can then switch races for your next series (match). Generally, a match refers to the overall BoX, whereas a game refers to each map played.
On December 20 2013 23:13 Crownlol wrote: Strange that they can't use chat, some of the longer greetings are nice!
J. During the game, players may not use chat except for a greeting, closing, and request for pause.
so i think the typical stephano greeting would be allowed here as example.
i not saw a single non related chat anyways who wasnt greeting or closing
On December 21 2013 04:17 crappen wrote: Pretty lame ruleset, but that's what we get when a bunch of corporate fags are writing the rules. Yes lets all be robots, show no emotion, just purchase all the shit thrown at us, lets behave and bend over and take it like a slut.
User was warned for this post
wow ... a WARNING ? really ? in the good old times he would have been hitched trough the town by spikes and flames xD
in other words ... dude thats BS the rules are fine and every normal person on earth should follow them with np ... like in every other sport ... if you say after a soccergame that your enemy team is a bunch of fuckers etc you get problems as well ...
Everything sounds good and like rules that should have been implemented a long time ago. I still remember when Naniwa beat Nestea in that MLG invitational right after watching his replay when he shouldn't' have been allowed too...
There is one thing I have a huge problem with though: C. Disputes and Redress – Any disputes a player may have with the current operation of the league should first be addressed by email, telephone or in person to the tournament organizer. If the organizer does not provide an adequate response in a timely fashion, players and teams should contact Blizzard Entertainment at esportsteam@blizzard.com.
This is a pretty horrible rule that definitely shouldn't exist and is obviously just a way to cover up mistakes and prevent bad publicity. They should just make sure the event is run correctly to prevent bad publicity rather than forcing players and teams to keep quiet at the cost of prize money.
On December 20 2013 23:36 MajOr wrote: I. Players may switch races after each match. < retarded
That rule is never going to be used and in case it is used it will be amazing and absolutely reward skill. Being able to play multiple races in a single series nothing to look down upon or to obstruct with a ruleset.
I've always been lead to understand a Bo3 is a match and each individual map is a set. That's how it always was on GomTV.
Blizzard should really clarify.
A Bo3 is a set of matches/maps. Think of it as a set of adorable tea cups. One cup does not make a set.
I think youre wrong man. Think of it in terms of tennis for example; there are many games played, but only one match. Its the same with starcraft. Thats also why it says you have to tell the tournament organizer which race your going to play before map selection, which is what the early ban/pick phase is called before any games are played.
I think a lot of these rules could have been sostituted with common sense. I mean, shout casters are generally pretty good about avoiding to bash players (maybe I've been missing something with gstl casters? Don't know). It feels like the rules became really strict even though little has changed.
On December 20 2013 23:36 MajOr wrote: I. Players may switch races after each match. < retarded
That rule is never going to be used and in case it is used it will be amazing and absolutely reward skill. Being able to play multiple races in a single series nothing to look down upon or to obstruct with a ruleset.
I'm pretty sure what they mean by the wording of that rule is that you must play as one race for an entire series, but can then switch races for your next series (match). Generally, a match refers to the overall BoX, whereas a game refers to each map played.
I interpret match as a single game and a set as a group of matches, meaning a best of three is a set of 3 matches. Basically the way it's used in tennis. Definitely should be clarified if there's this much confusion.
On December 21 2013 04:55 JJH777 wrote: Everything sounds good and like rules that should have been implemented a long time ago. I still remember when Naniwa beat Nestea in that MLG invitational right after watching his replay when he shouldn't' have been allowed too...
There is one thing I have a huge problem with though: C. Disputes and Redress – Any disputes a player may have with the current operation of the league should first be addressed by email, telephone or in person to the tournament organizer. If the organizer does not provide an adequate response in a timely fashion, players and teams should contact Blizzard Entertainment at esportsteam@blizzard.com.
This is a pretty horrible rule that definitely shouldn't exist and is obviously just a way to cover up mistakes and prevent bad publicity. They should just make sure the event is run correctly to prevent bad publicity rather than forcing players and teams to keep quiet at the cost of prize money.
yep thats a "no complain or we fuck you" rule that is the ONLY problem of all rules i have
thats like INTERVIEW: "you like it here ?" "well i cant say no or i get fined right?" ...
On December 20 2013 23:36 MajOr wrote: I. Players may switch races after each match. < retarded
That rule is never going to be used and in case it is used it will be amazing and absolutely reward skill. Being able to play multiple races in a single series nothing to look down upon or to obstruct with a ruleset.
I'm pretty sure what they mean by the wording of that rule is that you must play as one race for an entire series, but can then switch races for your next series (match). Generally, a match refers to the overall BoX, whereas a game refers to each map played.
I interpret match as a single game and a set as in a best of three is a set of matches. Basically the way it's used in tennis. Definitely should be clarified if there's this much confusion.
I'm pretty sure "match" is interpreted as whatever amount of maps (sets) that make up a BoX. For example, a player may have a 65% win rate but a 72% match win rate, meaning that he wins 65% of the maps he plays but 72% of the matches (Best of X-series) that said player participates in.
On December 20 2013 23:36 MajOr wrote: I. Players may switch races after each match. < retarded
That rule is never going to be used and in case it is used it will be amazing and absolutely reward skill. Being able to play multiple races in a single series nothing to look down upon or to obstruct with a ruleset.
I'm pretty sure what they mean by the wording of that rule is that you must play as one race for an entire series, but can then switch races for your next series (match). Generally, a match refers to the overall BoX, whereas a game refers to each map played.
I interpret match as a single game and a set as in a best of three is a set of matches. Basically the way it's used in tennis. Definitely should be clarified if there's this much confusion.
no need, cause no one ever switches races, at least never between the single maps ^^ and they even not do in a season so its pretty useless isnt it ?
On December 20 2013 23:36 MajOr wrote: I. Players may switch races after each match. < retarded
That rule is never going to be used and in case it is used it will be amazing and absolutely reward skill. Being able to play multiple races in a single series nothing to look down upon or to obstruct with a ruleset.
I'm pretty sure what they mean by the wording of that rule is that you must play as one race for an entire series, but can then switch races for your next series (match). Generally, a match refers to the overall BoX, whereas a game refers to each map played.
I interpret match as a single game and a set as in a best of three is a set of matches. Basically the way it's used in tennis. Definitely should be clarified if there's this much confusion.
no need, cause no one ever switches races, at least never between the single maps ^^ and they even not do in a season so its pretty useless isnt it ?
Oh it happens, though rarely. I think Tilea did it in WCS AM.
On December 20 2013 23:36 MajOr wrote: I. Players may switch races after each match. < retarded
That rule is never going to be used and in case it is used it will be amazing and absolutely reward skill. Being able to play multiple races in a single series nothing to look down upon or to obstruct with a ruleset.
I'm pretty sure what they mean by the wording of that rule is that you must play as one race for an entire series, but can then switch races for your next series (match). Generally, a match refers to the overall BoX, whereas a game refers to each map played.
I interpret match as a single game and a set as in a best of three is a set of matches. Basically the way it's used in tennis. Definitely should be clarified if there's this much confusion.
I'm pretty sure "match" is interpreted as whatever amount of maps (sets) that make up a BoX. For example, a player may have a 65% win rate but a 72% match win rate, meaning that he wins 65% of the maps he plays but 72% of the matches (Best of X-series) that said player participates in.
Then I've had it backwards for quite a while now. This explains my occasional confusion over some of the stats I've seen during tournaments. Thanks for clearing that up.
So glad Blizzard promotes esports and takes out one of the best parts of sports in general, trash talk. I propose in lieu of being unable to chat, players must be logged in to a vent/raidcall/ts3 channel with their opponent so that trash talk can be had between opponents without the public knowing. Or place them in the same soundproof booth. I'm not sure how many people would be surprised by the amount of trash talk that goes on in other professional sports, the only difference is the little stuff that actually gives people an edge is never captured by the cameras, only the big stuff that blows up and easily visible is seen.
On December 20 2013 23:36 MajOr wrote: I. Players may switch races after each match. < retarded
That rule is never going to be used and in case it is used it will be amazing and absolutely reward skill. Being able to play multiple races in a single series nothing to look down upon or to obstruct with a ruleset.
I'm pretty sure what they mean by the wording of that rule is that you must play as one race for an entire series, but can then switch races for your next series (match). Generally, a match refers to the overall BoX, whereas a game refers to each map played.
I interpret match as a single game and a set as in a best of three is a set of matches. Basically the way it's used in tennis. Definitely should be clarified if there's this much confusion.
I'm pretty sure "match" is interpreted as whatever amount of maps (sets) that make up a BoX. For example, a player may have a 65% win rate but a 72% match win rate, meaning that he wins 65% of the maps he plays but 72% of the matches (Best of X-series) that said player participates in.
On December 21 2013 05:07 Dazed_Spy wrote: Ridiculous rules, as usual when a centralized organization attempts to tell others what is appropriate and what isnt.
On December 20 2013 23:36 MajOr wrote: I. Players may switch races after each match. < retarded
That rule is never going to be used and in case it is used it will be amazing and absolutely reward skill. Being able to play multiple races in a single series nothing to look down upon or to obstruct with a ruleset.
I've always been lead to understand a Bo3 is a match and each individual map is a set. That's how it always was on GomTV.
Blizzard should really clarify.
A Bo3 is a set of matches/maps. Think of it as a set of adorable tea cups. One cup does not make a set.
I think youre wrong man. Think of it in terms of tennis for example; there are many games played, but only one match. Its the same with starcraft. Thats also why it says you have to tell the tournament organizer which race your going to play before map selection, which is what the early ban/pick phase is called before any games are played.
Sure but I was aiming at the believe that "each individual map is a set" and didn't really think about the "match".
On December 21 2013 05:07 Dazed_Spy wrote: Ridiculous rules, as usual when a centralized organization attempts to tell others what is appropriate and what isnt.
I'm pretty sure that if you fund, organize and promote an event, you have a fairly strong case for making the rules for said event.
On December 21 2013 05:07 Dazed_Spy wrote: Ridiculous rules, as usual when a centralized organization attempts to tell others what is appropriate and what isnt.
I'm pretty sure that if you fund, organize and promote an event, you have a fairly strong case for making the rules for said event.
Where did I say they had no legitimacy in creating their own rules? Oh right, I didnt. I said the rules were ridiculous, as one ought to expect. *Thats* what I said.
Good. While it was fun reading that IdrA "werent loss" it's not needed at all. Take that shit out of the game and bring it to twitter or something, so i've got stuff to read between games.
On December 21 2013 05:07 Dazed_Spy wrote: Ridiculous rules, as usual when a centralized organization attempts to tell others what is appropriate and what isnt.
I'm pretty sure that if you fund, organize and promote an event, you have a fairly strong case for making the rules for said event.
Where did I say they had no legitimacy in creating their own rules? Oh right, I didnt. I said the rules were ridiculous, as one ought to expect. *Thats* what I said.
No, you said:
On December 21 2013 05:07 Dazed_Spy wrote: Ridiculous rules, as usual when a centralized organization attempts to tell others what is appropriate and what isnt.
A centralized organization (Blizzard in this case) isn't "attempting to tell others what is appropriate and what isn't", they're explaining to us how they're going to run their tournaments (played in their game) and how the people participating, in one way or another, in their tournaments, competing for their money or being paid with their money, are expected to behave. There is nothing about what is appropriate and what isn't in the document, they're only explaining, quite clearly, what they won't accept. I realise that you may consider this a fine line, but still.
As for the rules themselves, you didn't actually explain what parts are ridiculous or why.
On December 21 2013 05:07 Dazed_Spy wrote: Ridiculous rules, as usual when a centralized organization attempts to tell others what is appropriate and what isnt.
I'm pretty sure that if you fund, organize and promote an event, you have a fairly strong case for making the rules for said event.
Where did I say they had no legitimacy in creating their own rules? Oh right, I didnt. I said the rules were ridiculous, as one ought to expect. *Thats* what I said.
But they weren't telling others what is appropriate, they were telling others what is appropriate in their tournament. I don't see the ridiculousness.
On December 20 2013 23:36 MajOr wrote: I. Players may switch races after each match. < retarded
That rule is never going to be used and in case it is used it will be amazing and absolutely reward skill. Being able to play multiple races in a single series nothing to look down upon or to obstruct with a ruleset.
I'm pretty sure what they mean by the wording of that rule is that you must play as one race for an entire series, but can then switch races for your next series (match). Generally, a match refers to the overall BoX, whereas a game refers to each map played.
I interpret match as a single game and a set as in a best of three is a set of matches. Basically the way it's used in tennis. Definitely should be clarified if there's this much confusion.
I'm pretty sure "match" is interpreted as whatever amount of maps (sets) that make up a BoX. For example, a player may have a 65% win rate but a 72% match win rate, meaning that he wins 65% of the maps he plays but 72% of the matches (Best of X-series) that said player participates in.
I'm kind of fine with most of the rules except the no chat thingy. If that was strictly enforced at every tournament then we wouldn't have had some awesome banter like PartinG vs sOs at Red Bull Battlegrounds final. I hope it will be used more as a sort of guideline and not a strict rule in that regard.
On December 20 2013 23:36 MajOr wrote: I. Players may switch races after each match. < retarded
That rule is never going to be used and in case it is used it will be amazing and absolutely reward skill. Being able to play multiple races in a single series nothing to look down upon or to obstruct with a ruleset.
I'm pretty sure what they mean by the wording of that rule is that you must play as one race for an entire series, but can then switch races for your next series (match). Generally, a match refers to the overall BoX, whereas a game refers to each map played.
I interpret match as a single game and a set as in a best of three is a set of matches. Basically the way it's used in tennis. Definitely should be clarified if there's this much confusion.
I'm pretty sure "match" is interpreted as whatever amount of maps (sets) that make up a BoX. For example, a player may have a 65% win rate but a 72% match win rate, meaning that he wins 65% of the maps he plays but 72% of the matches (Best of X-series) that said player participates in.
On December 20 2013 23:36 MajOr wrote: I. Players may switch races after each match. < retarded
That rule is never going to be used and in case it is used it will be amazing and absolutely reward skill. Being able to play multiple races in a single series nothing to look down upon or to obstruct with a ruleset.
I'm pretty sure what they mean by the wording of that rule is that you must play as one race for an entire series, but can then switch races for your next series (match). Generally, a match refers to the overall BoX, whereas a game refers to each map played.
I interpret match as a single game and a set as in a best of three is a set of matches. Basically the way it's used in tennis. Definitely should be clarified if there's this much confusion.
I'm pretty sure "match" is interpreted as whatever amount of maps (sets) that make up a BoX. For example, a player may have a 65% win rate but a 72% match win rate, meaning that he wins 65% of the maps he plays but 72% of the matches (Best of X-series) that said player participates in.
Yep, awaiting the chosen one to come and take Blizzcon with random.
He'll stand up the booth, hold his hand up, palm out, and all the bullets from the stimmed bio will clatter to the ground, the forcefields will evaporate and the mutas will crash to the ground. Then Dustin Browder will charge up on stage and start raining blows on him at supersonic speed, only for the chosen one to easily deflect them using only a single hand.
On December 20 2013 23:36 MajOr wrote: I. Players may switch races after each match. < retarded
That rule is never going to be used and in case it is used it will be amazing and absolutely reward skill. Being able to play multiple races in a single series nothing to look down upon or to obstruct with a ruleset.
I'm pretty sure what they mean by the wording of that rule is that you must play as one race for an entire series, but can then switch races for your next series (match). Generally, a match refers to the overall BoX, whereas a game refers to each map played.
I interpret match as a single game and a set as in a best of three is a set of matches. Basically the way it's used in tennis. Definitely should be clarified if there's this much confusion.
I'm pretty sure "match" is interpreted as whatever amount of maps (sets) that make up a BoX. For example, a player may have a 65% win rate but a 72% match win rate, meaning that he wins 65% of the maps he plays but 72% of the matches (Best of X-series) that said player participates in.
On December 20 2013 23:36 MajOr wrote: I. Players may switch races after each match. < retarded
That rule is never going to be used and in case it is used it will be amazing and absolutely reward skill. Being able to play multiple races in a single series nothing to look down upon or to obstruct with a ruleset.
I'm pretty sure what they mean by the wording of that rule is that you must play as one race for an entire series, but can then switch races for your next series (match). Generally, a match refers to the overall BoX, whereas a game refers to each map played.
I interpret match as a single game and a set as in a best of three is a set of matches. Basically the way it's used in tennis. Definitely should be clarified if there's this much confusion.
I'm pretty sure "match" is interpreted as whatever amount of maps (sets) that make up a BoX. For example, a player may have a 65% win rate but a 72% match win rate, meaning that he wins 65% of the maps he plays but 72% of the matches (Best of X-series) that said player participates in.
Yep, awaiting the chosen one to come and take Blizzcon with random.
He'll stand up the booth, hold his hand up, palm out, and all the bullets from the stimmed bio will clatter to the ground, the forcefields will evaporate and the mutas will crash to the ground. Then Dustin Browder will charge up on stage and start raining blows on him at supersonic speed, only for the chosen one to easily deflect them using only a single hand.
See threads are way more fun when we focus on making stupid comments and saying dumb thing. Rather than bitch about rules we don't like.
Priorities people! We are taking about competitive vigya games here!
oh come on,the audience are not a bunch of monks, thrash talking is one of the best and more enjoyable parts of competition in any sport! i really don't understand why they want to chastise a game that targets young people who are gonna curse and swear everyday anyway...
On December 20 2013 23:36 MajOr wrote: I. Players may switch races after each match. < retarded
That rule is never going to be used and in case it is used it will be amazing and absolutely reward skill. Being able to play multiple races in a single series nothing to look down upon or to obstruct with a ruleset.
I'm pretty sure what they mean by the wording of that rule is that you must play as one race for an entire series, but can then switch races for your next series (match). Generally, a match refers to the overall BoX, whereas a game refers to each map played.
I interpret match as a single game and a set as in a best of three is a set of matches. Basically the way it's used in tennis. Definitely should be clarified if there's this much confusion.
I'm pretty sure "match" is interpreted as whatever amount of maps (sets) that make up a BoX. For example, a player may have a 65% win rate but a 72% match win rate, meaning that he wins 65% of the maps he plays but 72% of the matches (Best of X-series) that said player participates in.
Yep, awaiting the chosen one to come and take Blizzcon with random.
He'll stand up the booth, hold his hand up, palm out, and all the bullets from the stimmed bio will clatter to the ground, the forcefields will evaporate and the mutas will crash to the ground. Then Dustin Browder will charge up on stage and start raining blows on him at supersonic speed, only for the chosen one to easily deflect them using only a single hand.
See threads are way more fun when we focus on making stupid comments and saying dumb thing. Rather than bitch about rules we don't like.
Priorities people! We are taking about competitive vigya games here!
That's kind of why I've never really been crazy about the whole concept of a full time professional gaming scene. It turns something that should be fun and somewhat frivolous into something all together too serious and anxiety-ridden.
There is a reason why HSC has the best LR threads, no one gives a fuck and everyone is just having fun.
I'm more worried about the chat regulations and victory celebrations. I have a feeling that the MC/Parting like ceremonies and banters will be reduced, which will really take way the entertainment value of the SC2
On December 20 2013 23:36 MajOr wrote: I. Players may switch races after each match. < retarded
That rule is never going to be used and in case it is used it will be amazing and absolutely reward skill. Being able to play multiple races in a single series nothing to look down upon or to obstruct with a ruleset.
I'm pretty sure what they mean by the wording of that rule is that you must play as one race for an entire series, but can then switch races for your next series (match). Generally, a match refers to the overall BoX, whereas a game refers to each map played.
I interpret match as a single game and a set as in a best of three is a set of matches. Basically the way it's used in tennis. Definitely should be clarified if there's this much confusion.
I'm pretty sure "match" is interpreted as whatever amount of maps (sets) that make up a BoX. For example, a player may have a 65% win rate but a 72% match win rate, meaning that he wins 65% of the maps he plays but 72% of the matches (Best of X-series) that said player participates in.
Yep, awaiting the chosen one to come and take Blizzcon with random.
He'll stand up the booth, hold his hand up, palm out, and all the bullets from the stimmed bio will clatter to the ground, the forcefields will evaporate and the mutas will crash to the ground. Then Dustin Browder will charge up on stage and start raining blows on him at supersonic speed, only for the chosen one to easily deflect them using only a single hand.
See threads are way more fun when we focus on making stupid comments and saying dumb thing. Rather than bitch about rules we don't like.
Priorities people! We are taking about competitive vigya games here!
So, is Major the oracle and what will Browder start seeing after he copies himself on to him?
On December 20 2013 23:53 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: [quote] That rule is never going to be used and in case it is used it will be amazing and absolutely reward skill. Being able to play multiple races in a single series nothing to look down upon or to obstruct with a ruleset.
I'm pretty sure what they mean by the wording of that rule is that you must play as one race for an entire series, but can then switch races for your next series (match). Generally, a match refers to the overall BoX, whereas a game refers to each map played.
I interpret match as a single game and a set as in a best of three is a set of matches. Basically the way it's used in tennis. Definitely should be clarified if there's this much confusion.
I'm pretty sure "match" is interpreted as whatever amount of maps (sets) that make up a BoX. For example, a player may have a 65% win rate but a 72% match win rate, meaning that he wins 65% of the maps he plays but 72% of the matches (Best of X-series) that said player participates in.
Yep, awaiting the chosen one to come and take Blizzcon with random.
He'll stand up the booth, hold his hand up, palm out, and all the bullets from the stimmed bio will clatter to the ground, the forcefields will evaporate and the mutas will crash to the ground. Then Dustin Browder will charge up on stage and start raining blows on him at supersonic speed, only for the chosen one to easily deflect them using only a single hand.
See threads are way more fun when we focus on making stupid comments and saying dumb thing. Rather than bitch about rules we don't like.
Priorities people! We are taking about competitive vigya games here!
So, is Major the oracle and what will Browder start seeing after he copies himself on to him?
If Dustin Browder copies himself to Major I'm pretty sure the result would be Desrow.
On December 20 2013 23:53 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: [quote] That rule is never going to be used and in case it is used it will be amazing and absolutely reward skill. Being able to play multiple races in a single series nothing to look down upon or to obstruct with a ruleset.
I'm pretty sure what they mean by the wording of that rule is that you must play as one race for an entire series, but can then switch races for your next series (match). Generally, a match refers to the overall BoX, whereas a game refers to each map played.
I interpret match as a single game and a set as in a best of three is a set of matches. Basically the way it's used in tennis. Definitely should be clarified if there's this much confusion.
I'm pretty sure "match" is interpreted as whatever amount of maps (sets) that make up a BoX. For example, a player may have a 65% win rate but a 72% match win rate, meaning that he wins 65% of the maps he plays but 72% of the matches (Best of X-series) that said player participates in.
Yep, awaiting the chosen one to come and take Blizzcon with random.
He'll stand up the booth, hold his hand up, palm out, and all the bullets from the stimmed bio will clatter to the ground, the forcefields will evaporate and the mutas will crash to the ground. Then Dustin Browder will charge up on stage and start raining blows on him at supersonic speed, only for the chosen one to easily deflect them using only a single hand.
See threads are way more fun when we focus on making stupid comments and saying dumb thing. Rather than bitch about rules we don't like.
Priorities people! We are taking about competitive vigya games here!
So, is Major the oracle and what will Browder start seeing after he copies himself on to him?
He is the hybrid that the choosen one most battle after mastering all three races. Then he seals Browder in a tree and closes off the spirit world forever.... Or something like that.
On December 21 2013 04:01 TRaFFiC wrote: The no chat thing seems totally out of the blue. When has chat ever been a problem? That's what everyone wants to see. Chat! But seeing as blizz is clueless on making battlenet more social....
Because during a WCS game I care about social and not the playing.
When Nerchio loses to Protoss, I want to see his true rage. I want to see him write a paragraph about how the guy should be ashamed to use the imba race. Not just gg.
Whether you agree with it or not, this is what gives huge viewer numbers. People love passionate players, not robots.
And people are so in love with Nerchio, he has 30 paged fanclub after being ~top5 foreigner for over 3 years
On December 21 2013 05:07 Dazed_Spy wrote: Ridiculous rules, as usual when a centralized organization attempts to tell others what is appropriate and what isnt.
I'm pretty sure that if you fund, organize and promote an event, you have a fairly strong case for making the rules for said event.
Where did I say they had no legitimacy in creating their own rules? Oh right, I didnt. I said the rules were ridiculous, as one ought to expect. *Thats* what I said.
On December 21 2013 05:07 Dazed_Spy wrote: Ridiculous rules, as usual when a centralized organization attempts to tell others what is appropriate and what isnt.
A centralized organization (Blizzard in this case) isn't "attempting to tell others what is appropriate and what isn't", they're explaining to us how they're going to run their tournaments (played in their game) and how the people participating, in one way or another, in their tournaments, competing for their money or being paid with their money, are expected to behave. There is nothing about what is appropriate and what isn't in the document, they're only explaining, quite clearly, what they won't accept. I realise that you may consider this a fine line, but still.
As for the rules themselves, you didn't actually explain what parts are ridiculous or why.
"attempting to tell others what is appropriate and what isn't", they're explaining to us how they're going to run their tournaments" Distinction without a difference. As for the rules themselves, you didn't actually explain what parts are ridiculous or why." The inability to criticize the organization freely, the inability to chat during the game, the inability to insult others without heavy fines, the inability of the casters to talk about the personality or skill of the player, and the attendant grey lines in the rules that blizzard can [and will] abuse.
On December 20 2013 23:36 MajOr wrote: I. Players may switch races after each match. < retarded
That rule is never going to be used and in case it is used it will be amazing and absolutely reward skill. Being able to play multiple races in a single series nothing to look down upon or to obstruct with a ruleset.
Yeah it sounds great on paper... but when we've seen it in practice isn't as glorious. Take Namhcir, who switched races at MLG Columbus (or perhaps Anaheim) and 4 gated a Terran... or a Protoss who switches to Terran versus Zerg so they can roll the dice with a 2 Rax; I've seen that too.
On December 20 2013 23:36 MajOr wrote: I. Players may switch races after each match. < retarded
That rule is never going to be used and in case it is used it will be amazing and absolutely reward skill. Being able to play multiple races in a single series nothing to look down upon or to obstruct with a ruleset.
I'm pretty sure what they mean by the wording of that rule is that you must play as one race for an entire series, but can then switch races for your next series (match). Generally, a match refers to the overall BoX, whereas a game refers to each map played.
I interpret match as a single game and a set as a group of matches, meaning a best of three is a set of 3 matches. Basically the way it's used in tennis. Definitely should be clarified if there's this much confusion.
Happygreek, that's not how game, set, and match are used in tennis though.
A game in tennis is the first person to win 4 points (win by two, ignoring the additional rules for deuces and ads because they're irrelevant to the terminology). You start at 0 (love), and then the scoring per won point goes 15, 30, 40, game.
If you win 6 games (win by two, yadda yadda), then you win the set. Some sets can be longer depending on the rules, but several games make up a set.
Then once you win the desired number of sets (e.g., best 2 out of 3 sets), you win the match.
Survivor61316's account of games and matches happens to be closer to tennis, and I agree (as does the clarification, fortunately). Less confusion, yay
On December 21 2013 04:01 TRaFFiC wrote: The no chat thing seems totally out of the blue. When has chat ever been a problem? That's what everyone wants to see. Chat! But seeing as blizz is clueless on making battlenet more social....
Because during a WCS game I care about social and not the playing.
When Nerchio loses to Protoss, I want to see his true rage. I want to see him write a paragraph about how the guy should be ashamed to use the imba race. Not just gg.
Whether you agree with it or not, this is what gives huge viewer numbers. People love passionate players, not robots.
And people are so in love with Nerchio, he has 30 paged fanclub after being ~top5 foreigner for over 3 years
What? He was maybe top 5 foreigner during broodlord infestor.
On December 21 2013 04:01 TRaFFiC wrote: The no chat thing seems totally out of the blue. When has chat ever been a problem? That's what everyone wants to see. Chat! But seeing as blizz is clueless on making battlenet more social....
Because during a WCS game I care about social and not the playing.
When Nerchio loses to Protoss, I want to see his true rage. I want to see him write a paragraph about how the guy should be ashamed to use the imba race. Not just gg.
Whether you agree with it or not, this is what gives huge viewer numbers. People love passionate players, not robots.
And people are so in love with Nerchio, he has 30 paged fanclub after being ~top5 foreigner for over 3 years
What? He was maybe top 5 foreigner during broodlord infestor.
On December 20 2013 23:56 Sly Faux wrote: I understand the reasons behind this, we need to act professional fi we are to be taken seriously, but this just rustle my jimmies. No offensive language, no in game chat... basically all the lovable friendly trash talk that really gets me hyped, is out. No more personalities everybody! Remember how much we loved Idra's "Fuck you" to Huk after that Halluc VR match? NO MORE OF THAT NOW!. Robots everybody, just play the game and get out.
4thelolz: No CHEATING!? Looks like the whole Protoss race is out... those advanced imbalanced theocratic dicks.
User was warned for this post
Thank god, I *hated* that moment.
Really glad to see some standardized rules and expected behavior. Time to put the "professional" back into pro gamers
On December 21 2013 04:01 TRaFFiC wrote: The no chat thing seems totally out of the blue. When has chat ever been a problem? That's what everyone wants to see. Chat! But seeing as blizz is clueless on making battlenet more social....
Because during a WCS game I care about social and not the playing.
When Nerchio loses to Protoss, I want to see his true rage. I want to see him write a paragraph about how the guy should be ashamed to use the imba race. Not just gg.
Whether you agree with it or not, this is what gives huge viewer numbers. People love passionate players, not robots.
And people are so in love with Nerchio, he has 30 paged fanclub after being ~top5 foreigner for over 3 years
What? He was maybe top 5 foreigner during broodlord infestor.
Probably sarcasm?
Nah, Nerchio was a force to be reckoned with way before that. Best ZvZ in the bizz and an online killer.
Blizzard want to make esports more like a real sports... Not gonna work. Different "athletes", different spectators than in real sports. I don't know who need those stupid rules (other than delaying, not cheating etc, ie the usual ones) except Blizzard and a small part of "omg omg BM mules, someone call sponsors" type of viewers. SC2 is a niche sport, it's even a niche esport if compare to MOBA games. And most likely will stay that way no matter what. Just my 2c though.
On December 21 2013 07:57 TJ31 wrote: Blizzard want to make esports more like a real sports... Not gonna work. Different "athletes", different spectators than in real sports. I don't know who need those stupid rules (other than delaying, not cheating etc, ie the usual ones) except Blizzard and a small part of "omg omg BM mules, someone call sponsors" type of viewers. SC2 is a niche sport, it's even a niche esport if compare to MOBA games. And most likely will stay that way no matter what. Just my 2c though.
And at least there's still DH and HSC.
Stuff like manner mules and manner nexus is still fine. It's no different from spiking the ball after a touchdown or some of the celebrations I've seen in soccer. (I personally don't like those kinds of displays myself, but that's not really on topic). What isn't fine is players using abusive and hateful language, and doing things to tarnish the image of the game and the scene as a whole.
I also applaud the effort to warn/penalize people for airing grievances in public. It's a horrendous practice that keeps happening in eSports and it really makes everyone look terrible. Keep that shit private, resolve it like adults.
Time for everyone to start taking stuff seriously if they want to "be legit"!
PS: There are still plenty of instances of acceptable trash talking in "traditional" sports that can bring enjoyment and extra hype and I imagine players will find room for the same in SC2.
Rules similar to this have been around for a long time, so it's not like there is anything new to this. The only thing that specifically worries me is the idea that you're not allowed to criticize the tournament (is this right? I sort of skimmed most of the discussion), but otherwise the lack of in-game chat and forcing players to be on time is all harmless. If players want to show personality they can have their own blog or there can be interviews or comments on twitter and so on. But the only reason we care about these players is ultimately their ability to play the game and it's this ability that should be highlighted. I sometimes think that many people in the community are just here out of habit or they follow the scene for the drama and the players and the ambiance etc. and are only barely interested in the actual game (as is true for most sports I guess). But on some level everyone loses out when the game is no longer central. I think it's a very good idea to say that when the game start you focus on the game, period. (The "sanctity of the game", and so on.)
I don't really like the idea of e-sports too much though. I have two sort of competing ideas and I don't know how to directly reconcile them. On one hand I think that you should respect the game and that many of Blizzard's rules are in the spirit of this thought, but on the other hand I don't like the idea of e-sports as a spectacle show where we want to emulate wrestling or something, with the community not caring about playing the game, just caring about the gladiator fight between Jaedong & Flash. It's this sort of mentality that makes people think it's a good idea to have mindless thrash talking to create equally mindless drama. Since if we're going to appeal to the lowest common denominator it's better to have players that show "personality" by acting like your typical loudmouth football player. (I mean, there are plenty of people that act like Innovation and Scarlett have no personality, just because they're shy/polite) Many of Blizzard's rules are in the spirit of creating a family-friendly spectacle event as marketing for Blizzard, that just seems offensive to me on some level.
I do like competition though, it's more pure. I wish there was some billionaire that would acquire an island and invite the best 100 Starcraft players and just have them compete in a massive tournament. No broadcasting, no show, just competition and it only needs to be relevant to the people playing there. But of course, in today's world you need business models and that sort of thing to even have competition in the first place, and the powers-that-be only care about competition in the sense that it can draw in an audience.
"D. Communication & Storage Devices – Players must consult with the organizer before bringing electronic storage devices to any event and are not allowed to use any mobile or external communication equipment during a match. All personal equipment must be in an enclosed bag or be given to an administrator while a match is played. " Do people need to ask permission to bring their smartphone to events? :/
Edit: And I still think it's stupid that you can switch race between maps. Makes map vetos kind of stupid. Like the blind pick part though(not that I think it will ever be used).
4thelolz: No CHEATING!? Looks like the whole Protoss race is out... those advanced imbalanced theocratic dicks.
User was warned for this post
You should of said software exploitation playing as Protoss, it would have been funnier... Anyway these seem like standard no-nonsense rules the only downside is the prize reduction and the way the infractions cumulate over the season. By the end of the season I'd wonder who gets the whole prize.
Ok, i'm glad for the clarification on a match being a series. I was worried becuase your opponent should be able to prepare for one race at a time, that's kind of important. I wouldn't really care if it was like in a MLG style open bracket. Hell i think in that instance race picking during a series could be kind of hilarious. That's obiter, don't quote me on this.
As for the rest, i don't really care. I don't see anything which prevents friendly trash talk outside game, and that's way more important to have than some rude words on a monitor while hiding in a booth.
On December 21 2013 08:40 Zarahtra wrote: "D. Communication & Storage Devices – Players must consult with the organizer before bringing electronic storage devices to any event and are not allowed to use any mobile or external communication equipment during a match. All personal equipment must be in an enclosed bag or be given to an administrator while a match is played. " Do people need to ask permission to bring their smartphone to events? :/
Edit: And I still think it's stupid that you can switch race between maps. Makes map vetos kind of stupid. Like the blind pick part though(not that I think it will ever be used).
As Nazgul said, anyone good enough to actually make a multiple race strategy for a series work should be rewarded because that is fucking hard to do.
There's a good reason you don't see this sort of thing already and it's the same reason why you don't see any Random players at the top level. Mastering one race at the professional level is hard enough as it is, mastering 2 or 3 is even more insane.
Why are posts like this getting warnings? Maybe it's in the rules, somewhere, but I don't care. Beyond the basic rules that protect people, both TL moderators and Blizzard should step back and let people have fun.
On December 21 2013 11:00 Vindicare605 wrote: I love all of these rules, but what I love more are the reactions to them in this thread.
I'll never understand why so many people love to watch people trash talk each other. It adds nothing as far as I'm concerned.
Tell that to boxing, it adds hype even if the players themselves are really friends or don't really hate each other. It's about putting on a show and also a way to add extra mind-games.
Why are posts like this getting warnings? Maybe it's in the rules, somewhere, but I don't care. Beyond the basic rules that protect people, both TL moderators and Blizzard should step back and let people have fun.
Fun is not professional. Blizzard seems to think that their route will be the best -- there is enough 'fun' by just watching the games and enforcing those types of rules. Since it's their event and all, they can do that. Maybe next year they might change some stuff but who knows. LETS SEE.
I just hope they won't enforce some of these rules too strictly, like chat restrictions and not mentioning leave to an administrator. (for example losing a match because of a bathroom break or receiving a fine because of 2 messages as a game ending instead of one.) These rules have a positive effect on tournament organization as long as they are used preventing excessive cases, i think.
On December 21 2013 08:12 Grumbels wrote: Rules similar to this have been around for a long time, so it's not like there is anything new to this. The only thing that specifically worries me is the idea that you're not allowed to criticize the tournament (is this right? I sort of skimmed most of the discussion), but otherwise the lack of in-game chat and forcing players to be on time is all harmless. If players want to show personality they can have their own blog or there can be interviews or comments on twitter and so on. But the only reason we care about these players is ultimately their ability to play the game and it's this ability that should be highlighted. I sometimes think that many people in the community are just here out of habit or they follow the scene for the drama and the players and the ambiance etc. and are only barely interested in the actual game (as is true for most sports I guess). But on some level everyone loses out when the game is no longer central. I think it's a very good idea to say that when the game start you focus on the game, period. (The "sanctity of the game", and so on.)
I don't really like the idea of e-sports too much though. I have two sort of competing ideas and I don't know how to directly reconcile them. On one hand I think that you should respect the game and that many of Blizzard's rules are in the spirit of this thought, but on the other hand I don't like the idea of e-sports as a spectacle show where we want to emulate wrestling or something, with the community not caring about playing the game, just caring about the gladiator fight between Jaedong & Flash. It's this sort of mentality that makes people think it's a good idea to have mindless thrash talking to create equally mindless drama. Since if we're going to appeal to the lowest common denominator it's better to have players that show "personality" by acting like your typical loudmouth football player. (I mean, there are plenty of people that act like Innovation and Scarlett have no personality, just because they're shy/polite) Many of Blizzard's rules are in the spirit of creating a family-friendly spectacle event as marketing for Blizzard, that just seems offensive to me on some level.
I do like competition though, it's more pure. I wish there was some billionaire that would acquire an island and invite the best 100 Starcraft players and just have them compete in a massive tournament. No broadcasting, no show, just competition and it only needs to be relevant to the people playing there. But of course, in today's world you need business models and that sort of thing to even have competition in the first place, and the powers-that-be only care about competition in the sense that it can draw in an audience.
One rare good post in this thread. Thanks you.
I'm gonna comment on one part of it tho. I don't think the pure gameplay of SC2 itself is good enough to entertain people. In a vacuum without any drama, any story, the game is really weak.
Why are posts like this getting warnings? Maybe it's in the rules, somewhere, but I don't care. Beyond the basic rules that protect people, both TL moderators and Blizzard should step back and let people have fun.
It's probably because it was a worthless post. If it's so boring why would you waste your time and ours to make sure we know that with as little effort by you as possible? Why not, like, idk, put effort into the post and explain why the new rules are boring or unnecessary or whatever.
PS, they tell you to not question them in-thread. Take it to the website feedback. You're probably going to get a warning too :\
I guess they don't care that with each and every fine they give out for chatting in game, they're literally going to be nuked with tidal waves of shit. To an extent I can understand them not wanting profanity on their stream (any other case i'd be enraged...), but enforcing sportsmanship by penalizing bm is so backwards. At what point should they also make it a rule that after each and every match players must shake hands? Why can't they just trust in general decency between players when 99.99999% of the time they wouldn't bm, and probably shake hands regardless? Naniwa is probably one of the most anticipated players in any tournament he comes to, loved or hated. They have nothing to gain disallowing it, and everything to lose.
At least they're (most likely) going to release all replays. It's not that much harder to rip a build apart watching a vod anyways, for player, coach, caster, or casual. It hurts the community more than it helps (if at all) the players.
On December 21 2013 08:06 Xiphos wrote: Simple if you don't like the rules, then don't watch the WCS tournies as a sign of protest. They'll be forced to comply.
If only they didn't occupy the majority of large SC2 events...
On December 21 2013 13:44 Mallidon wrote: Way to go, now there is even less reason for me to pay attention to SC2...
Edit - By these rules, Idra/MC at MLG Columbus 2011 would be fined...
Any funny or amusing rivalry/ banter is about to get stomped on. GG.
Wait, Idra and MC never said anything in chat and the trash talking was mild at best. I don't think a single fine would be handed out. I think people are making a mountain out of a mole hill here, little will change.
It doesn't mean the rules are going to be ridiculously enforced to the point that there is no entertainment. If you have the rules then discretion can be used. If there are no clear rules then drama happens.
NFL athletes get fined all the time but still do entertaining things.
This is an important and legitimate step, but don't assume it's going to be so strictly enforced that entertaining moments won't happen. Seems to me they left that gray area in with the discretion parts.
On December 21 2013 08:40 Zarahtra wrote: "D. Communication & Storage Devices – Players must consult with the organizer before bringing electronic storage devices to any event and are not allowed to use any mobile or external communication equipment during a match. All personal equipment must be in an enclosed bag or be given to an administrator while a match is played. " Do people need to ask permission to bring their smartphone to events? :/
Edit: And I still think it's stupid that you can switch race between maps. Makes map vetos kind of stupid. Like the blind pick part though(not that I think it will ever be used).
Race switching typically is to give yourself some type of advantage on a map or matchup, if people want to do that then let it be i guess IMO.
These new rules take away too much of the fun. Some drama around known rivalries between players and moderate BM is part of the excitement. Regulating all that away makes the series a lot more boring
On December 21 2013 14:11 RevTiberius wrote: These new rules take away too much of the fun. Some drama around known rivalries between players and moderate BM is part of the excitement. Regulating all that away makes the series a lot more boring
Really? Care to explain all the times that in game drama they would now be fined happened in the 2013 WCS?
These rules will hardly change anything. Why are people acting like mad trash talk and in game bm is common? And so common that somehow it ruins the fun?
haha, when I saw the headlines about "fines" and saw naniwa as the picture, I was thinking "oh dang, what did he do now"...but really it was just rules . Most of these rules seem overlooked, so I guess it's good that they're there.
On December 21 2013 14:11 RevTiberius wrote: These new rules take away too much of the fun. Some drama around known rivalries between players and moderate BM is part of the excitement. Regulating all that away makes the series a lot more boring
Really? Care to explain all the times that in game drama they would now be fined happened in the 2013 WCS?
These rules will hardly change anything. Why are people acting like mad trash talk and in game bm is common? And so common that somehow it ruins the fun?
Maybe you care to explain where I said or insinuated that "mad trash talk and in game bm is common"?
people keep acting like this is the end of the world. ain't. shit. gon. change.
the sc2 pro community already doesn't have much BM going on at all, especially since Idra retired. the tiny bit that is there is probably going to remain, Naniwa and Nerchio will just get less prizemoney while Grubby will get more. this isn't the war3 community where there was actually funny stuff going on that just can't be tolerated if you want to run a very professional tournament.
On December 21 2013 14:11 RevTiberius wrote: These new rules take away too much of the fun. Some drama around known rivalries between players and moderate BM is part of the excitement. Regulating all that away makes the series a lot more boring
Really? Care to explain all the times that in game drama they would now be fined happened in the 2013 WCS?
These rules will hardly change anything. Why are people acting like mad trash talk and in game bm is common? And so common that somehow it ruins the fun?
Maybe you care to explain where I said or insinuated that "mad trash talk and in game bm is common"?
Take away to much of the fun. As in its common enough to create a pretty high quantity of fun.
So yeah, one would assume what you wrote insinuates it is common to some degree when in fact it hardly happened at all last year. You are making a big deal out if something that you claim created fun and hardly even happened. Again provide examples of instances last year that were fun that the new rules will prevent? There are very few.
On December 21 2013 14:11 RevTiberius wrote: These new rules take away too much of the fun. Some drama around known rivalries between players and moderate BM is part of the excitement. Regulating all that away makes the series a lot more boring
Really? Care to explain all the times that in game drama they would now be fined happened in the 2013 WCS?
These rules will hardly change anything. Why are people acting like mad trash talk and in game bm is common? And so common that somehow it ruins the fun?
Maybe you care to explain where I said or insinuated that "mad trash talk and in game bm is common"?
Take away to much of the fun. As in its common enough to create a pretty high quantity of fun.
So yeah, one would assume what you wrote insinuates it is common to some degree when in fact it hardly happened at all last year. You are making a big deal out if something that you claim created fun and hardly even happened. Again provide examples of instances last year that were fun that the new rules will prevent? There are very few.
You seem to read a lot of garbage into other people's posts just so that you can disagree with them. You completely missed the point of my original statement
On December 21 2013 14:11 RevTiberius wrote: These new rules take away too much of the fun. Some drama around known rivalries between players and moderate BM is part of the excitement. Regulating all that away makes the series a lot more boring
Really? Care to explain all the times that in game drama they would now be fined happened in the 2013 WCS?
These rules will hardly change anything. Why are people acting like mad trash talk and in game bm is common? And so common that somehow it ruins the fun?
Maybe you care to explain where I said or insinuated that "mad trash talk and in game bm is common"?
Take away to much of the fun. As in its common enough to create a pretty high quantity of fun.
So yeah, one would assume what you wrote insinuates it is common to some degree when in fact it hardly happened at all last year. You are making a big deal out if something that you claim created fun and hardly even happened. Again provide examples of instances last year that were fun that the new rules will prevent? There are very few.
You seem to read a lot of garbage into other people's posts just so that you can disagree with them. You completely missed the point of my original statement
You seem to be trying to make a big deal out of something that isn't.
Care to clarify your point then? Seems pretty straight forward to me. Maybe I just have no problem calling people out for saying unsubstantiated things.
On December 20 2013 23:36 MajOr wrote: I. Players may switch races after each match. < retarded
That rule is never going to be used and in case it is used it will be amazing and absolutely reward skill. Being able to play multiple races in a single series nothing to look down upon or to obstruct with a ruleset.
On December 21 2013 13:44 Mallidon wrote: Way to go, now there is even less reason for me to pay attention to SC2...
Edit - By these rules, Idra/MC at MLG Columbus 2011 would be fined...
Any funny or amusing rivalry/ banter is about to get stomped on. GG.
Wait, Idra and MC never said anything in chat and the trash talking was mild at best. I don't think a single fine would be handed out. I think people are making a mountain out of a mole hill here, little will change.
B. Behavior – Players are required to behave in a sportsmanlike manner towards other competitors, members of the administration team, media, and fans.
Pretty sure they'd have been fined under that one.
Meh. I know it was mild, but players will end up living in fear of fines etc and we will lose another aspect of things, that is personality coming through.
On December 21 2013 08:40 Zarahtra wrote: "D. Communication & Storage Devices – Players must consult with the organizer before bringing electronic storage devices to any event and are not allowed to use any mobile or external communication equipment during a match. All personal equipment must be in an enclosed bag or be given to an administrator while a match is played. " Do people need to ask permission to bring their smartphone to events? :/
Edit: And I still think it's stupid that you can switch race between maps. Makes map vetos kind of stupid. Like the blind pick part though(not that I think it will ever be used).
Race switching typically is to give yourself some type of advantage on a map or matchup, if people want to do that then let it be i guess IMO.
Are there even any top level pros who race switch? I know Morrow use to. I feel like the rule is more of a just in case some drama comes up they have a written rule they can reference.
Mostly I'm worried about the Behavior clause. It is very vague and open to interpretation by tournament directors, for example, Scarlett's "knock knock, whose there, 6 zerglings lol" joke COULD be called unsportsmanlike, or it could be called good natured, but I reckon players will refrain from posting stuff like that in the future for fear of retribution. Even many Korean players have decent banter in pre-game interviews (MC's confidence, others saying they will win a match in 3 games), it seems like this rule would hinder those moments which I think are vital to appeal to the community. As others have said, we don't want to watch robots, we want to watch relatable players, and adding a broad "Behavior" clause will stymie personality in my opinion.
If a game is delayed or forced to restart due to bnet 2.0 disconnects, Blizzard entertainment will not be penalised for any down time or negative effects on the player's game. If a player experiences any kind of distress due to disconnection at a critical time of his/her game, players are advice to relief their anger on the numerous number of destructible rocks that can be found scattered in various locations on the map.
there are way too many over reactions from you people. all that "cool' stuff you talk about rarely happens as it is. and whats 1% if they really want to show their personalities and stand out. it might even be a good "investment" for some players.
I'll echo my dislike for the chat rule. I think anything non-offensive that a player can do to make people laugh or otherwise endear himself/herself to the viewers is a positive thing. Removing that banter reduces the chances for smiles =(.
Other than that, I'm glad they made a very thorough set of rules that seem focused on trying to make tournaments run more smoothly.
i like the no chatting rules, I think random chatting in tournament just makes it feel unprofessional. imagine you can talk to your opponent in snooker lol
On December 21 2013 21:19 Jj_82 wrote: "No chatting" - this is stupid to some extent, because it adds to a viewers enjoyment, if players chit chat with each other! So... wtf?
I think the rule is more like GSTL, they had the rule in place but never actually enforced it(if they did it didn't happen a lot), so normal chatting is most likely fine but negative/bad comments about your opponent/excessive chatting is probably a no-no
On December 21 2013 21:19 Jj_82 wrote: "No chatting" - this is stupid to some extent, because it adds to a viewers enjoyment, if players chit chat with each other! So... wtf?
I would assume it's largely to prevent mind games and "How could I lose to the worst player in the world" stuff.
On December 21 2013 21:19 Jj_82 wrote: "No chatting" - this is stupid to some extent, because it adds to a viewers enjoyment, if players chit chat with each other! So... wtf?
The old writing "a" and then bunker rushing. Fun and happy times.
On December 21 2013 23:32 qoiN wrote: Why do I have the feeling that Naniwa would rather give away 5% of his winnings to say "fuck you" to the people he really dislikes.
Rage isn't a choice, it's genetic. BM isn't a habit, it's a way of life. Nani Ruff Ryda fo lyfe.
A. Language – In all languages, players may not use obscene gestures, profanity and/or racist comments in game chat, lobby chat, or live interviews. This includes abbreviations and/or obscure references. Organizers reserve the right to enforce this at their own discretion.
So the point of that is to make things more professional which might seem good on the surface level because we associate professionalism with high quality but what I find lacking in this approach is the purpose, or said another way, where is this "professionalism" taking us. To a more serious looking SCII esports environment ? There are benefits from this, true, however at the same time, I think we are losing something essential - I think we are losing the humanity of it all.
In fact, I see this is a supression of a player's personality. Suddenly, you no longer have the right to express yourself as you are, instead, you are forced to fit into the cookie-cutter mold. What was so wrong about the little bm here and there ? Why do we have to ban it ? The bm incidents were quite rare anyway and they added something vital to the experience of esports - they added personal stories that could be directly experienced by the viewer. On top of that, the bm incidents that were happening weren't malicious or nasty, the vast majority of it was in the spirit of good fun.
I can understand why this rule is being implemented - if we want to draw esports closer to being mainstream, we need to make it similar to how other mainstream competitive disciplines look like, as this is the only way we can aquire further funding and social acceptance. Unfortunately, it's hard to argue with this. The problem I have with this is that I don't think esports needs to become like everything else that is mainstream. For me, this siphons away one of the key features that draws me and many other people to esports in the first place - personal stories, unique culture and atmosphere.
In summary, the expressions and possibilites of a player that were prohibited by this rule were source of substantial value to many within the community and while there are benefits from making the scene more professional by banning "inappropriate" expressions, there are also significant drawbacks. We lose many priceless stories because of this rule. We also lose the view of player's unique personality. I think that's a lot.
On December 21 2013 21:45 ETisME wrote: i like the no chatting rules, I think random chatting in tournament just makes it feel unprofessional. imagine you can talk to your opponent in snooker lol
except this isn't snooker and not comparable to snooker because you don't take turns in SC2.
I also don't like this rule. the occasional smack talk made some fun moments.
C. Disputes and Redress – Any disputes a player may have with the current operation of the league should first be addressed by email, telephone or in person to the tournament organizer. If the organizer does not provide an adequate response in a timely fashion, players and teams should contact Blizzard Entertainment at esportsteam@blizzard.com.
So you get banned for complaining in public. Player union when?
C. Disputes and Redress – Any disputes a player may have with the current operation of the league should first be addressed by email, telephone or in person to the tournament organizer. If the organizer does not provide an adequate response in a timely fashion, players and teams should contact Blizzard Entertainment at esportsteam@blizzard.com.
So you get banned for complaining in public. Player union when?
I THINK (I'm not sure, but hey why not speculate) this is to minimize the amount of Pro Player complaints Blizzard has to find on forums like Team Liquid by having players directly contact them with complaints. I can respect that, though I doubt Blizzard will be handing out fines to players who respond to threads with their first impressions.
Also, the "No In-Game Chatter" rule is a blanket rule clearly made to stop players from playing a sort of text-based meta-game during a serious professional match; it's assumed that nobody will try but JUST IN CASE there needs to be a rule written down that can be enforced should the scenario come up. I don't know about the "No Replays Between Games In A Series"; that feels a little weird to me. I don't know though, we'll need to wait and see how things play out in the first major tournament in 2014.
On December 22 2013 03:02 dUTtrOACh wrote: Players that are intoxicated during any event may be disqualified at the discretion of the tournament organizer.
If you can win a WCS event while intoxicated you should be given double the prize money for being a badass.
haha some rules are fine. but who care about an idra finger to MC, i mean its all entertainment... now its gonna be boring
Its kinda sad to me that the biggest tournament is not organized in a democratic way. Blizzard and their partners are all 'just' companies interested in profit in the first place and telling everybody how to act in a very detailed way hits my stomach hard. in my opinion we need an instance - at best elected by the players themselves - that represent the interest of the real actors of this sport: the players of this game. plz dont forget them about all the trademark focussed events. furthermore, as blizzard suggest "The WCS is dedicated to creating the best competitive experience for both players and spectators around the world." maybe they should also hear a delegation of the viewer side. this group could also ensure that the millions of dollars that these events generate as profit for those companies (that also create the rules) would come around - just a little bit - for those who pay/generate that money. that would be just fair.
In my opinion, the starcraft2 e-sport needs to get more independent of those major companies when they try to make all the rules. we could switch 'our' true world championship to another event that is not so regulatory. we should start discussions on ourselves how a "best competitive experience" should look like for both players and spectators and harden common positions in papers and institutions. first of all i think of an organisation that represents the players and that stands up for their interests whatever these may be. but it needs to be independant from those event organizers so they dont tell whats best for them. the spectators, including me, are already discussing this topic extensively and building one speaking representation for hundred of thousands is way more difficult. also, for me it is more important that the interests of the players are represented.
looking forward to change in that direction. best regards, noodloid
this is mad. i suggest pro-gamers start to organize and make an union to defend their rights. - blizzard basically says no to free speech with rules on interviews. - blizzard doesnt own players so blizzard shouldnt say what players can do and what they cant apart from the event premises. yes - blizzard gives money to players, but players gives their lives to sc2. so its just not fair that blizzard treats players like this. sad. just sad.
On December 22 2013 03:56 EasyLemon wrote: this is mad. i suggest pro-gamers start to organize and make an union to defend their rights. - blizzard basically says no to free speech with rules on interviews. - blizzard doesnt own players so blizzard shouldnt say what players can do and what they cant apart from the event premises. yes - blizzard gives money to players, but players gives their lives to sc2. so its just not fair that blizzard treats players like this. sad. just sad.
So if I read and understood these rules correctly, that means if you're bad mannered, delinquent, late a lot in general, but still win it all at the end, it doesn't matter since all your penalized prize money is going to you anyway.
On December 22 2013 03:56 EasyLemon wrote: this is mad. i suggest pro-gamers start to organize and make an union to defend their rights. - blizzard basically says no to free speech with rules on interviews. - blizzard doesnt own players so blizzard shouldnt say what players can do and what they cant apart from the event premises. yes - blizzard gives money to players, but players gives their lives to sc2. so its just not fair that blizzard treats players like this. sad. just sad.
You really don't understand how this works.
Blizzard owns the game so in order to play the game you have to follow their rules. seems pretty simple.
A. Language – In all languages, players may not use obscene gestures, profanity and/or racist comments in game chat, lobby chat, or live interviews. This includes abbreviations and/or obscure references. Organizers reserve the right to enforce this at their own discretion.
But homophobic and transphobic language is allowed? Neat!
On December 22 2013 03:56 EasyLemon wrote: this is mad. i suggest pro-gamers start to organize and make an union to defend their rights. - blizzard basically says no to free speech with rules on interviews. - blizzard doesnt own players so blizzard shouldnt say what players can do and what they cant apart from the event premises. yes - blizzard gives money to players, but players gives their lives to sc2. so its just not fair that blizzard treats players like this. sad. just sad.
You really don't understand how this works.
So, in the fashion of Plansix, Zealously, and others who take a position and insult everybody who takes the opposite position: Sounds like you have both reading comprehension problems and straight-up autism, Zealously! Can't we all just stop this us and them thing? Probably not, but let's at least try.
These rules are, in general, "good" for everybody, but, just like freedom of speech, you should let people be outspoken and passionate even if you don't agree with them. Please, let's not have an entirely PC society in SC2, too.
On December 22 2013 03:56 EasyLemon wrote: this is mad. i suggest pro-gamers start to organize and make an union to defend their rights. - blizzard basically says no to free speech with rules on interviews. - blizzard doesnt own players so blizzard shouldnt say what players can do and what they cant apart from the event premises. yes - blizzard gives money to players, but players gives their lives to sc2. so its just not fair that blizzard treats players like this. sad. just sad.
You really don't understand how this works.
So, in the fashion of Plansix, Zealously, and others who take a position and insult everybody who takes the opposite position: Sounds like you have both reading comprehension problems and straight-up autism, Zealously! Can't we all just stop this us and them thing? Probably not, but let's at least try.
These rules are, in general, "good" for everybody, but, just like freedom of speech, you should let people be outspoken and passionate even if you don't agree with them. Please, let's not have an entirely PC society in SC2, too.
I have an issue with people invoking "free speech" as if it were relevant in this case. I don't want some kind of censorship where players are only allowed to plug sponsors and say nice things, but "free speech" isn't really applicable here. The same goes for the following statement. Of course Blizzard can tell the players playing in their own tournament (funded mostly by their money and played in their game) what they can and can't do. It's one thing not to like that they have power over the players, it's another to make incorrect statements about Blizzard's rights in the situation.
On December 22 2013 03:56 EasyLemon wrote: this is mad. i suggest pro-gamers start to organize and make an union to defend their rights. - blizzard basically says no to free speech with rules on interviews. - blizzard doesnt own players so blizzard shouldnt say what players can do and what they cant apart from the event premises. yes - blizzard gives money to players, but players gives their lives to sc2. so its just not fair that blizzard treats players like this. sad. just sad.
You really don't understand how this works.
So, in the fashion of Plansix, Zealously, and others who take a position and insult everybody who takes the opposite position: Sounds like you have both reading comprehension problems and straight-up autism, Zealously! Can't we all just stop this us and them thing? Probably not, but let's at least try.
These rules are, in general, "good" for everybody, but, just like freedom of speech, you should let people be outspoken and passionate even if you don't agree with them. Please, let's not have an entirely PC society in SC2, too.
I have an issue with people invoking "free speech" as if it were relevant in this case. Like, I don't want some kind of censorship where players are only allowed to plug sponsors and say nice things, but "free speech" isn't applicable here. The same goes for the following statement. Of course Blizzard can tell the players playing in their own tournament (funded mostly by their money and played in their game) what they can and can't do. It's one thing not to like that they have power over the players, it's another to make incorrect statements about Blizzard's rights in the situation.
I guess my point is mainly that it doesn't matter what Blizzard's rights are. It matters more what is the right thing to have. In that case, it seems better financially, entertainment-wise, and administratively to allow all kinds of speech. Just fine extremely egregious examples of idiocy and things will be all good.
On December 22 2013 03:56 EasyLemon wrote: this is mad. i suggest pro-gamers start to organize and make an union to defend their rights. - blizzard basically says no to free speech with rules on interviews. - blizzard doesnt own players so blizzard shouldnt say what players can do and what they cant apart from the event premises. yes - blizzard gives money to players, but players gives their lives to sc2. so its just not fair that blizzard treats players like this. sad. just sad.
You really don't understand how this works.
So, in the fashion of Plansix, Zealously, and others who take a position and insult everybody who takes the opposite position: Sounds like you have both reading comprehension problems and straight-up autism, Zealously! Can't we all just stop this us and them thing? Probably not, but let's at least try.
These rules are, in general, "good" for everybody, but, just like freedom of speech, you should let people be outspoken and passionate even if you don't agree with them. Please, let's not have an entirely PC society in SC2, too.
Complains that people are getting insulted, then insults the poster he was complaining about. Brings up free speech, when it has nothing to do with the topic, as players willing enter WCS.
There is nothing wrong with being outspoken, as long as you have your facts straight. If you don't, expect to get called out on it.
On December 22 2013 03:56 EasyLemon wrote: this is mad. i suggest pro-gamers start to organize and make an union to defend their rights. - blizzard basically says no to free speech with rules on interviews. - blizzard doesnt own players so blizzard shouldnt say what players can do and what they cant apart from the event premises. yes - blizzard gives money to players, but players gives their lives to sc2. so its just not fair that blizzard treats players like this. sad. just sad.
You really don't understand how this works.
So, in the fashion of Plansix, Zealously, and others who take a position and insult everybody who takes the opposite position: Sounds like you have both reading comprehension problems and straight-up autism, Zealously! Can't we all just stop this us and them thing? Probably not, but let's at least try.
These rules are, in general, "good" for everybody, but, just like freedom of speech, you should let people be outspoken and passionate even if you don't agree with them. Please, let's not have an entirely PC society in SC2, too.
I have an issue with people invoking "free speech" as if it were relevant in this case. Like, I don't want some kind of censorship where players are only allowed to plug sponsors and say nice things, but "free speech" isn't applicable here. The same goes for the following statement. Of course Blizzard can tell the players playing in their own tournament (funded mostly by their money and played in their game) what they can and can't do. It's one thing not to like that they have power over the players, it's another to make incorrect statements about Blizzard's rights in the situation.
I guess my point is mainly that it doesn't matter what Blizzard's rights are. It matters more what is the right thing to have. In that case, it seems better financially, entertainment-wise, and administratively to allow all kinds of speech. Just fine extremely egregious examples of idiocy and things will be all good.
And you can be pretty sure that's what's going to happen as well. If I remember correctly, a similar rule against chatting was in place in GS(T?)L but never enforced because it was never considered necessary. Having the rules in place and not enforcing them is better than not having them in place and being unable to punish terrible behaviour, in my opinion.
On December 22 2013 03:56 EasyLemon wrote: this is mad. i suggest pro-gamers start to organize and make an union to defend their rights. - blizzard basically says no to free speech with rules on interviews. - blizzard doesnt own players so blizzard shouldnt say what players can do and what they cant apart from the event premises. yes - blizzard gives money to players, but players gives their lives to sc2. so its just not fair that blizzard treats players like this. sad. just sad.
You really don't understand how this works.
So, in the fashion of Plansix, Zealously, and others who take a position and insult everybody who takes the opposite position: Sounds like you have both reading comprehension problems and straight-up autism, Zealously! Can't we all just stop this us and them thing? Probably not, but let's at least try.
These rules are, in general, "good" for everybody, but, just like freedom of speech, you should let people be outspoken and passionate even if you don't agree with them. Please, let's not have an entirely PC society in SC2, too.
Complains that people are getting insulted, then insults the poster he was complaining about. Brings up free speech, when it has nothing to do with the topic, as players willing enter WCS.
There is nothing wrong with being outspoken, as long as you have your facts straight. If you don't, expect to get called out on it.
I was doing that theatrically for effect, to show you what it feels like and looks like. Not seriously. Also, what is the point of free speech if we can say, "Oh, yeah, we like free speech, but not here. Nope, not there either. Welp, looks like there's only free speech in 25% of actual life." That whole attitude is a little dangerous, don't you think?
H. Players may request a blind pick where each player will communicate their race to the tournament administration team before map selection. I. Players may switch races after each match.
love seeing this, fun is allowed, too bad it won't be used good rules all around though.
No replay watching between games Q. In Qualifiers, replay watching may be considered as a delay of game and be grounds for a warning and subsequent penalties.
I don´t get this. If you lose you want to learn. Fast forwarding the replay takes a few minutes. Just make it a 2 minute rule and everything is fine.
On December 22 2013 05:37 Amoment wrote: No replay watching between games Q. In Qualifiers, replay watching may be considered as a delay of game and be grounds for a warning and subsequent penalties.
I don´t get this. If you lose you want to learn. Fast forwarding the replay takes a few minutes. Just make it a 2 minute rule and everything is fine.
In case you didn't know, the same rule was (according to Adebisi) in effect in WCS this year as well.
On December 22 2013 03:56 EasyLemon wrote: this is mad. i suggest pro-gamers start to organize and make an union to defend their rights. - blizzard basically says no to free speech with rules on interviews. - blizzard doesnt own players so blizzard shouldnt say what players can do and what they cant apart from the event premises. yes - blizzard gives money to players, but players gives their lives to sc2. so its just not fair that blizzard treats players like this. sad. just sad.
You really don't understand how this works.
So, in the fashion of Plansix, Zealously, and others who take a position and insult everybody who takes the opposite position: Sounds like you have both reading comprehension problems and straight-up autism, Zealously! Can't we all just stop this us and them thing? Probably not, but let's at least try.
These rules are, in general, "good" for everybody, but, just like freedom of speech, you should let people be outspoken and passionate even if you don't agree with them. Please, let's not have an entirely PC society in SC2, too.
Complains that people are getting insulted, then insults the poster he was complaining about. Brings up free speech, when it has nothing to do with the topic, as players willing enter WCS.
There is nothing wrong with being outspoken, as long as you have your facts straight. If you don't, expect to get called out on it.
I was doing that theatrically for effect, to show you what it feels like and looks like. Not seriously. Also, what is the point of free speech if we can say, "Oh, yeah, we like free speech, but not here. Nope, not there either. Welp, looks like there's only free speech in 25% of actual life." That whole attitude is a little dangerous, don't you think?
Nope, its not a problem all. Happens to you all the time. You can't talk any time you want in school or at work. It is was is expected of a professional, to know when it is appropriate to say specific things. It is what is expected of high school athletes. There is nothing in these rules that you would not get in trouble for if you were on a little league team. Players are not being repressed or expected to do anything more that most professionals do every day.
On December 22 2013 03:56 EasyLemon wrote: this is mad. i suggest pro-gamers start to organize and make an union to defend their rights. - blizzard basically says no to free speech with rules on interviews. - blizzard doesnt own players so blizzard shouldnt say what players can do and what they cant apart from the event premises. yes - blizzard gives money to players, but players gives their lives to sc2. so its just not fair that blizzard treats players like this. sad. just sad.
You really don't understand how this works.
So, in the fashion of Plansix, Zealously, and others who take a position and insult everybody who takes the opposite position: Sounds like you have both reading comprehension problems and straight-up autism, Zealously! Can't we all just stop this us and them thing? Probably not, but let's at least try.
These rules are, in general, "good" for everybody, but, just like freedom of speech, you should let people be outspoken and passionate even if you don't agree with them. Please, let's not have an entirely PC society in SC2, too.
Complains that people are getting insulted, then insults the poster he was complaining about. Brings up free speech, when it has nothing to do with the topic, as players willing enter WCS.
There is nothing wrong with being outspoken, as long as you have your facts straight. If you don't, expect to get called out on it.
I was doing that theatrically for effect, to show you what it feels like and looks like. Not seriously. Also, what is the point of free speech if we can say, "Oh, yeah, we like free speech, but not here. Nope, not there either. Welp, looks like there's only free speech in 25% of actual life." That whole attitude is a little dangerous, don't you think?
You realize Free Speech doesn't apply to your job right?
You can say whatever you want and not get arrested for it, but your employer who pays you (in this case Blizzard) has every right to fire your ass for your racist hateful rants.
Also, not everywhere is the USA. Most other countries on the planet don't put up with such BS.
My favourite bit about all of this is Blizzard stating that all replays must be released. I think this is great to innovate stale meta games due to players being figured out after each and every tournament. I think they're on to a winner!
I worry about the "players must behave in a sportsmanlike manner at all times" element, because in-game BM (think Manner Nexus when you are winning, Pylon hearts, dancing units, creep tumor initials, etc.) can often be a lot of fun for the community.
I worry that might be considered "unsportsmanlike." Perhaps it is. But I like it.
On December 22 2013 07:30 nullroar wrote: I worry about the "players must behave in a sportsmanlike manner at all times" element, because in-game BM (think Manner Nexus when you are winning, Pylon hearts, dancing units, creep tumor initials, etc.) can often be a lot of fun for the community.
I worry that might be considered "unsportsmanlike." Perhaps it is. But I like it.
I will bet money that will not be fined. Calling someone a "cheesey little shit" or "patchzerg" will get you fined. These rules will only be enforced when someone gets out of line. Nothing will really change.
On December 22 2013 03:56 EasyLemon wrote: this is mad. i suggest pro-gamers start to organize and make an union to defend their rights. - blizzard basically says no to free speech with rules on interviews. - blizzard doesnt own players so blizzard shouldnt say what players can do and what they cant apart from the event premises. yes - blizzard gives money to players, but players gives their lives to sc2. so its just not fair that blizzard treats players like this. sad. just sad.
You really don't understand how this works.
So, in the fashion of Plansix, Zealously, and others who take a position and insult everybody who takes the opposite position: Sounds like you have both reading comprehension problems and straight-up autism, Zealously! Can't we all just stop this us and them thing? Probably not, but let's at least try.
These rules are, in general, "good" for everybody, but, just like freedom of speech, you should let people be outspoken and passionate even if you don't agree with them. Please, let's not have an entirely PC society in SC2, too.
Complains that people are getting insulted, then insults the poster he was complaining about. Brings up free speech, when it has nothing to do with the topic, as players willing enter WCS.
There is nothing wrong with being outspoken, as long as you have your facts straight. If you don't, expect to get called out on it.
I was doing that theatrically for effect, to show you what it feels like and looks like. Not seriously. Also, what is the point of free speech if we can say, "Oh, yeah, we like free speech, but not here. Nope, not there either. Welp, looks like there's only free speech in 25% of actual life." That whole attitude is a little dangerous, don't you think?
You realize Free Speech doesn't apply to your job right?
You can say whatever you want and not get arrested for it, but your employer who pays you (in this case Blizzard) has every right to fire your ass for your racist hateful rants.
Also, not everywhere is the USA. Most other countries on the planet don't put up with such BS.
Even in America there are limits on "free" speech. Basically any sort of speech along the lines of yelling bomb on an airplane or yelling fire in a crowded area is illegal. Any sort of speech that incites a panic among a crowded area. Also assemblies that use speech to stir crowds to violence is also illegal.
That said, Blizzard isn't the player's employer. Blizzard is like the NBA administration, they try to organize rules and set schedules with the respective venues and can issue fines/bans if a player is shown to have committed a grave offense(Dennis Rodman kicking that photographer is the one I remember off the top of my head). The player's teams are the employers of the players, they pay the salaries, lan fees, flights, etc.(usually, most big time contracts include stuff like that). Blizzard is trying to "legislate" morality.
There are things are just meant to settle and regulate themselves. And, while I can see where Blizzard are coming from, imho, not all of the rules had to be worded so imperatively. However, as always, it will come down to how the rules are actually applied. And this is what only time can tell.
On December 22 2013 03:56 EasyLemon wrote: this is mad. i suggest pro-gamers start to organize and make an union to defend their rights. - blizzard basically says no to free speech with rules on interviews. - blizzard doesnt own players so blizzard shouldnt say what players can do and what they cant apart from the event premises. yes - blizzard gives money to players, but players gives their lives to sc2. so its just not fair that blizzard treats players like this. sad. just sad.
You really don't understand how this works.
So, in the fashion of Plansix, Zealously, and others who take a position and insult everybody who takes the opposite position: Sounds like you have both reading comprehension problems and straight-up autism, Zealously! Can't we all just stop this us and them thing? Probably not, but let's at least try.
These rules are, in general, "good" for everybody, but, just like freedom of speech, you should let people be outspoken and passionate even if you don't agree with them. Please, let's not have an entirely PC society in SC2, too.
Complains that people are getting insulted, then insults the poster he was complaining about. Brings up free speech, when it has nothing to do with the topic, as players willing enter WCS.
There is nothing wrong with being outspoken, as long as you have your facts straight. If you don't, expect to get called out on it.
I was doing that theatrically for effect, to show you what it feels like and looks like. Not seriously. Also, what is the point of free speech if we can say, "Oh, yeah, we like free speech, but not here. Nope, not there either. Welp, looks like there's only free speech in 25% of actual life." That whole attitude is a little dangerous, don't you think?
You realize Free Speech doesn't apply to your job right?
You can say whatever you want and not get arrested for it, but your employer who pays you (in this case Blizzard) has every right to fire your ass for your racist hateful rants.
Also, not everywhere is the USA. Most other countries on the planet don't put up with such BS.
Even in America there are limits on "free" speech. Basically any sort of speech along the lines of yelling bomb on an airplane or yelling fire in a crowded area is illegal. Any sort of speech that incites a panic among a crowded area. Also assemblies that use speech to stir crowds to violence is also illegal.
That said, Blizzard isn't the player's employer. Blizzard is like the NBA administration, they try to organize rules and set schedules with the respective venues and can issue fines/bans if a player is shown to have committed a grave offense(Dennis Rodman kicking that photographer is the one I remember off the top of my head). The player's teams are the employers of the players, they pay the salaries, lan fees, flights, etc.(usually, most big time contracts include stuff like that). Blizzard is trying to "legislate" morality.
The NBA has even stricter policies on what can and cannot be said by players. Every major sports league does and all of them focus on good sportsmanship. I don't know why people think that Blizzards rules are more strict that a professional sports league, because they are not.
Do people actually think that the no chat rule in Kespa made Korean pros faceless to Koreans?? OGN did a great job in BW to use different ways to hype up players and story lines in and out of the game. A good example is zooming-in/showing the players' faces when something game changing happened. It really showed a lot of emotion, not only from chat.
The new rule is a bit too restrictive, but to avoid complicated cases, a simply, strict rule is the best way to avoid controversies.
I like the "friendly" banter at the start of games. As long as it doesn't violate other rules (like language) the players should be able to chat. I feel it adds to the games. Oh well.
On December 22 2013 07:30 nullroar wrote: I worry about the "players must behave in a sportsmanlike manner at all times" element, because in-game BM (think Manner Nexus when you are winning, Pylon hearts, dancing units, creep tumor initials, etc.) can often be a lot of fun for the community.
I worry that might be considered "unsportsmanlike." Perhaps it is. But I like it.
I will bet money that will not be fined. Calling someone a "cheesey little shit" or "patchzerg" will get you fined. These rules will only be enforced when someone gets out of line. Nothing will really change.
Patchzerg seems harmless enough. What about "expansiontoss"?
This PG-13 crap is nauseating, although the worst bit is censoring casters. Seriously? If someone is garbage, and everyone can see they're garbage, why shouldn't the caster be able to acknowledge that? I'd like to hear Khaldor's opinion about this.
On December 21 2013 04:17 crappen wrote: Pretty lame ruleset, but that's what we get when a bunch of corporate fags are writing the rules. Yes lets all be robots, show no emotion, just purchase all the shit thrown at us, lets behave and bend over and take it like a slut.
User was warned for this post
wow ... a WARNING ? really ? in the good old times he would have been hitched trough the town by spikes and flames xD
in other words ... dude thats BS the rules are fine and every normal person on earth should follow them with np ... like in every other sport ... if you say after a soccergame that your enemy team is a bunch of fuckers etc you get problems as well ...
Lol, even with a smiley behind your comment of the good old days, I still get the feeling you like those kind of enforcement. My problem with this is even in your post, normal people. Who the fuck are you or them to tell what is normal or not? I hate rules that enforces language behaviour, its really silly in so many ways. Enforce laws that actually means something, like hitting your opponent in the face. It seems that we get more rules every day, and people get more and more fed up with this shit. It's like we're all pussies and can't take some smack talk anymore.
I am sure that people will come up with more rules if all these are followed, cause people just like to force their will upon each other, to feel powerful. It's not human nature, its insanity.
On December 22 2013 22:11 madbringer wrote: This PG-13 crap is nauseating, although the worst bit is censoring casters. Seriously? If someone is garbage, and everyone can see they're garbage, why shouldn't the caster be able to acknowledge that? I'd like to hear Khaldor's opinion about this.
Because if you play in a GSL event you are by definition not garbage, you are the one percent. Casters will still be able to say that he did not play as well as he could or whatever. If a player makes glaring mistakes they will be called out, it does not mean the caster is being negative about the player. It seems to me the rule is more about not being allowed to call a player an asshole.
On December 22 2013 22:11 madbringer wrote: This PG-13 crap is nauseating, although the worst bit is censoring casters. Seriously? If someone is garbage, and everyone can see they're garbage, why shouldn't the caster be able to acknowledge that? I'd like to hear Khaldor's opinion about this.
Because if you play in a GSL event you are by definition not garbage, you are the one percent.
Now, maybe. There were a lot of terrible players in the GSL during the early days, and neither Tasteless nor Artosis were afraid to say as much on-air. Also, you took me too literally, I'm not saying casters should be allowed to spew profanities at players (aside from the fact that this is common sense and making rules about it is redundant, because doing so would be committing career suicide anyway), I'm saying they should be allowed to voice harsh criticism if they deem it necessary.
On December 20 2013 23:56 Sly Faux wrote: I understand the reasons behind this, we need to act professional fi we are to be taken seriously, but this just rustle my jimmies. No offensive language, no in game chat... basically all the lovable friendly trash talk that really gets me hyped, is out. No more personalities everybody! Remember how much we loved Idra's "Fuck you" to Huk after that Halluc VR match? NO MORE OF THAT NOW!. Robots everybody, just play the game and get out.
4thelolz: No CHEATING!? Looks like the whole Protoss race is out... those advanced imbalanced theocratic dicks.
User was warned for this post
Oh would you grow up.
Its sad really that you cant enjoy the game without the players writing to eachother.
I doubt that most of those rules are going to be enforced. I know tournament organizers love some drama for more publicity. And if theres a pro that doesnt care about money its naniwa. I wouldnt be suprised if he doesnt change at all because of this
On December 22 2013 03:56 EasyLemon wrote: this is mad. i suggest pro-gamers start to organize and make an union to defend their rights. - blizzard basically says no to free speech with rules on interviews. - blizzard doesnt own players so blizzard shouldnt say what players can do and what they cant apart from the event premises. yes - blizzard gives money to players, but players gives their lives to sc2. so its just not fair that blizzard treats players like this. sad. just sad.
You really don't understand how this works.
So, in the fashion of Plansix, Zealously, and others who take a position and insult everybody who takes the opposite position: Sounds like you have both reading comprehension problems and straight-up autism, Zealously! Can't we all just stop this us and them thing? Probably not, but let's at least try.
These rules are, in general, "good" for everybody, but, just like freedom of speech, you should let people be outspoken and passionate even if you don't agree with them. Please, let's not have an entirely PC society in SC2, too.
Complains that people are getting insulted, then insults the poster he was complaining about. Brings up free speech, when it has nothing to do with the topic, as players willing enter WCS.
There is nothing wrong with being outspoken, as long as you have your facts straight. If you don't, expect to get called out on it.
I was doing that theatrically for effect, to show you what it feels like and looks like. Not seriously. Also, what is the point of free speech if we can say, "Oh, yeah, we like free speech, but not here. Nope, not there either. Welp, looks like there's only free speech in 25% of actual life." That whole attitude is a little dangerous, don't you think?
You realize Free Speech doesn't apply to your job right?
You can say whatever you want and not get arrested for it, but your employer who pays you (in this case Blizzard) has every right to fire your ass for your racist hateful rants.
Also, not everywhere is the USA. Most other countries on the planet don't put up with such BS.
There are difference between denial of free speech and rules against racism and hateful rants. If player want to say that his opponent needs go back to drawing table, which might be disrespectful, but it is what player thinks, then theres no reason to not let him say that. According to the rules thats can be fined. Tho its a bit far stretched. Im sure all sc2 players are smart enough not to be associated with racism. And im not sure how things work in your country - in my country's constitution there are clear point - there no denial of free speech. I worked for state, and only point in our contract about free speech was that i am not allowed to give out the information i work with.
And about blizzard being employer... thats not true. I can imagine why would one think like that, but then everyone who plays sc2 is employed by blizzard? The reputation of company you work for is closly connected to your actions, but this is not case - blizzards reputation is not affected with Stephano drinking problem. And this thing hit me with these rules - these rules dont only regulate tournament organization, but also what players should do and what to not. And what they gain with these rules? The worst/best part of big tournaments are the final ceremony. I hope they add rules how player need to lift trophies and pop champagne bottles, because its blizzard's property.
Pretty sure that about being intoxicated, insulting co workers, etc... any boss would be able to fire you on a dismissal on disciplinary grounds. And yeah, you are the one signing into WCS, so you are subject to their rules (if they are not against your rights, and freedom of speech, is not what you think it is).
Honestly, it is not like there is much chatting to begin with. I think they should not ban chat, because when players chat, it makes things more interesting. The other rules are obviously totally reasonable.
On December 20 2013 23:36 MajOr wrote: I. Players may switch races after each match. < retarded
That rule is never going to be used and in case it is used it will be amazing and absolutely reward skill. Being able to play multiple races in a single series nothing to look down upon or to obstruct with a ruleset.
I've seen players do that during BW ... well that was BW anyways
On December 23 2013 04:03 snow2.0 wrote: Why can drunk players be disqualified?
If they don't lose anyway, doesn't that just show they're better?
Prohibition type laws aren't meant to make any sense. Alcohol consumers, and cannabis consumers like myself should basically boycott the WCS if we can't enjoy ourselves legally with of age friends, family or fans. Ultimately if I have epliepsy and, Blizzard catches me smoking a joint they will turn me into the federalis. I will not be watching, or participating in WCS out of respect for the lack of insight from eSports @ Blizzard (this is looking at you Torch - and this is your 2nd strike with me - get one more - and I will be sprinkling weed seeds into your lawn into eternity).
I like the movement towards strict professionalism. It helps legitimize the scene, and that's what we need most of all. The more professional we are, the less and less we'll see instances of situations that mock the esports scene, especially from people who don't understand what this is all about.
On December 23 2013 04:03 snow2.0 wrote: Why can drunk players be disqualified?
If they don't lose anyway, doesn't that just show they're better?
Prohibition type laws aren't meant to make any sense. Alcohol consumers, and cannabis consumers like myself should basically boycott the WCS if we can't enjoy ourselves legally with of age friends, family or fans. Ultimately if I have epliepsy and, Blizzard catches me smoking a joint they will turn me into the federalis. I will not be watching, or participating in WCS out of respect for the lack of insight from eSports @ Blizzard (this is looking at you Torch - and this is your 2nd strike with me - get one more - and I will be sprinkling weed seeds into your lawn into eternity).
Cannot tell if he is sarcastic or serious....really hope he is trolling.....god let him be trolling.
The shoutcaster must treat all players with respect and cannot comment negatively on the player’s overall skill or character
Is this a joke or something? I mean, I get the first half of it, not being disrespectful... But technically, pointing out flaws in someone's play is part of understanding the game! What if the caster thinks player X is at an disadvantage due to nerve issues? This rule should undergo re-wording to be more accurate imho
edit: I know it says "overall", but this is just too vague for me. Being positive is a good thing, but in competition there are winners and losers...
On December 23 2013 09:32 shinosai wrote: Honestly, it is not like there is much chatting to begin with. I think they should not ban chat, because when players chat, it makes things more interesting. The other rules are obviously totally reasonable.
I think each player, before each match should be able to choose whether or not to allow chatting(and inform admins if necessary). If both agree, then it's allowed, otherwise only the glhf/pp/gg. Obviously the banter back and forth must adhere to the other guidelines though.
On December 23 2013 04:03 snow2.0 wrote: Why can drunk players be disqualified?
If they don't lose anyway, doesn't that just show they're better?
Prohibition type laws aren't meant to make any sense. Alcohol consumers, and cannabis consumers like myself should basically boycott the WCS if we can't enjoy ourselves legally with of age friends, family or fans. Ultimately if I have epliepsy and, Blizzard catches me smoking a joint they will turn me into the federalis. I will not be watching, or participating in WCS out of respect for the lack of insight from eSports @ Blizzard (this is looking at you Torch - and this is your 2nd strike with me - get one more - and I will be sprinkling weed seeds into your lawn into eternity).
Cannot tell if he is sarcastic or serious....really hope he is trolling.....god let him be trolling.
Seriously, with players like Nony playing drunk, people on StoG playing drinking games while on stream or Axlav/Axeltoss boozing their way through a cast it's not wrong to adress this issue. If smoking weed isn't okay, alcohol shouldn't be either
On December 23 2013 04:03 snow2.0 wrote: Why can drunk players be disqualified?
If they don't lose anyway, doesn't that just show they're better?
Prohibition type laws aren't meant to make any sense. Alcohol consumers, and cannabis consumers like myself should basically boycott the WCS if we can't enjoy ourselves legally with of age friends, family or fans. Ultimately if I have epliepsy and, Blizzard catches me smoking a joint they will turn me into the federalis. I will not be watching, or participating in WCS out of respect for the lack of insight from eSports @ Blizzard (this is looking at you Torch - and this is your 2nd strike with me - get one more - and I will be sprinkling weed seeds into your lawn into eternity).
Cannot tell if he is sarcastic or serious....really hope he is trolling.....god let him be trolling.
Well he has a point ofcourse (not the boycot one). I would not be surprised if the WCS handbook regulation cant follow the laws within certain countries where tournaments are held or players come from. There laywer must really have nothing to do that he could waste alot of time and money on this 30 page regulationleaflet.
On December 23 2013 05:23 SpikeStarcraft wrote: I doubt that most of those rules are going to be enforced. I know tournament organizers love some drama for more publicity. And if theres a pro that doesnt care about money its naniwa. I wouldnt be suprised if he doesnt change at all because of this
naniwa has left like every team because of money drama. i think he'll be a lil more careful but i also think pushing the boundaries on those rules will create drama and hype around a players o i guess it could go either way.
The shoutcaster must treat all players with respect and cannot comment negatively on the player’s overall skill or character
Is this a joke or something? I mean, I get the first half of it, not being disrespectful... But technically, pointing out flaws in someone's play is part of understanding the game! What if the caster thinks player X is at an disadvantage due to nerve issues? This rule should undergo re-wording to be more accurate imho
edit: I know it says "overall", but this is just too vague for me. Being positive is a good thing, but in competition there are winners and losers...
Oh come on that has NOTHING to do with this rule. It's obviously to prevent casters shitting on a player the whole cast long which happens to often.
On December 21 2013 00:11 squanzo wrote: Wow holy shit Blizzard what else can you fuck up more?
Can't drink? Smoke? Say naughty language? chat to players? say anything during interviews?
The culture of their fans made them the company they are today, and they want to strip that from public eye. It's fucking sickening and it's happening everywhere in this pretentious, pussy world we live in today
The "culture of their fans" is generally called "toxicity".
Professional competition isn't a playground. Players come to win and anything that has the potential to unbalance the competition doesn't belong.
On December 23 2013 02:27 Gene(S)is wrote: Starting to look like Kespa, the very same organization Blizzard once sued. Can't they see what they are turning into?
You do know that the only reason Blizzard pursued legal action against KeSPA was to force the BW scene to end prematurely so people would buy SC2, right? They didn't even sue them over anything remotely related to this topic.
On December 23 2013 02:27 Gene(S)is wrote: Starting to look like Kespa, the very same organization Blizzard once sued. Can't they see what they are turning into?
You do know that the only reason Blizzard pursued legal action against KeSPA was to force the BW scene to end prematurely so people would buy SC2, right? They didn't even sue them over anything remotely related to this topic.
No, they did it to protect their copyrights and to sell SC2 in Korea. Since they had not challenged the right to broadcast BW for so many year, the needed to re-establish their rights to the IP. Blizzard didn't end the BW scene with the law suite and it was never their goal to do that.
Perhaps the in-game chat ban addresses the match-fixing element as well. Especially to mitigate the situation where both players are in cohorts to share the pool money, and the players chat in code to tell the other player what he's doing. It's like how in wrestling, the referee uses visual cues and whispers to prompt the players what to do next (so I read somewhere).
On December 23 2013 02:27 Gene(S)is wrote: Starting to look like Kespa, the very same organization Blizzard once sued. Can't they see what they are turning into?
You do know that the only reason Blizzard pursued legal action against KeSPA was to force the BW scene to end prematurely so people would buy SC2, right? They didn't even sue them over anything remotely related to this topic.
No, they did it to protect their copyrights and to sell SC2 in Korea. Since they had not challenged the right to broadcast BW for so many year, the needed to re-establish their rights to the IP. Blizzard didn't end the BW scene with the law suite and it was never their goal to do that.
Well that kind of backfired given what a flop the game was in Korea. The fact that it's still below BW in PC bangs never ceases to amuse me.
On December 23 2013 02:27 Gene(S)is wrote: Starting to look like Kespa, the very same organization Blizzard once sued. Can't they see what they are turning into?
You do know that the only reason Blizzard pursued legal action against KeSPA was to force the BW scene to end prematurely so people would buy SC2, right? They didn't even sue them over anything remotely related to this topic.
No, they did it to protect their copyrights and to sell SC2 in Korea. Since they had not challenged the right to broadcast BW for so many year, the needed to re-establish their rights to the IP. Blizzard didn't end the BW scene with the law suite and it was never their goal to do that.
Well that kind of backfired given what a flop the game was in Korea. The fact that it's still below BW in PC bangs never ceases to amuse me.
It can't really backfire. Copyright and IP law works on a use it or lose it system. You either defend your IP or you lose it, which is why Blizzard had to pull the trigger.
Its good that blizzard is implementing these rules. It really shows that starcraft is a mature esport and that blizzard wants to keep it as such.
I really hope that other esports like dota anad csgo can eventually do the same things. Esp since dota is very immature compared to starcraft. Teams show up late all the time, and the delays between games are awful.
On December 21 2013 00:11 squanzo wrote: Wow holy shit Blizzard what else can you fuck up more?
Can't drink? Smoke? Say naughty language? chat to players? say anything during interviews?
The culture of their fans made them the company they are today, and they want to strip that from public eye. It's fucking sickening and it's happening everywhere in this pretentious, pussy world we live in today
The "culture of their fans" is generally called "toxicity".
Professional competition isn't a playground. Players come to win and anything that has the potential to unbalance the competition doesn't belong.
I completely understand his point. In a tournament with 300k USD on the line, why go professional? It's so unnecessary. Sponsors do not care about what the players do anyways.
The "No chatting" ingame thing seems a lil extreme to me. If you ban and penalize certain language, you can't offend anyone anyways ingame. Just the notion of a obscene comment can be penalized so why not allow chitchat at the beginning. I'm guessing that with "greeting" they mean "gl hf" and stuff. But players like Stephano engaged in a lil small talk during initial downtime. I really enjoy those conversations
Good thing. I hated all the BM ceremonies and trash talk in games. KeSPA rules were too strict imho. But as long as greetings and all forms of pause/gg are alowed that seems fine.
On December 23 2013 02:27 Gene(S)is wrote: Starting to look like Kespa, the very same organization Blizzard once sued. Can't they see what they are turning into?
You do know that the only reason Blizzard pursued legal action against KeSPA was to force the BW scene to end prematurely so people would buy SC2, right? They didn't even sue them over anything remotely related to this topic.
No, they did it to protect their copyrights and to sell SC2 in Korea. Since they had not challenged the right to broadcast BW for so many year, the needed to re-establish their rights to the IP. Blizzard didn't end the BW scene with the law suite and it was never their goal to do that.
I want to live in the same world as you, where Blizzard still had good intends with that one.
What I don't understand about all this is how will it actually make the pro scene and the game itself more accessible and popular to the average fan. I've found the pro scene to be predominantly lacking in emotion and personality throughout the years, particularly after the Korean exodus that watered down the lines between national/regional representation when WCS loosened the requirements. What about this new set of rules actually makes the game more exciting or better to watch?
I suppose on the rare occasion where a player doesn't give a fuck, they end up swearing in an interview or saying something scandalous in chat, but it ends there. Their opponent will most likely not respond out of fear, the caster will be obligated to condemn the behaviour and for just a moment the fans will go completely ape-shit. This doesn't take all the drama away, but it definitely dulls things. I have a feeling this has something to do with Blizzard's wanting to enter the MOBA genre in a big way. They're preemptively stamping out toxicity and painting their games as mature and professional. Something that the average, casual gamer doesn't give a shit about.
On December 20 2013 23:56 Sly Faux wrote: No offensive language, no in game chat... basically all the lovable friendly trash talk that really gets me hyped, is out. No more personalities everybody! Robots everybody, just play the game and get out.
People like this are so daft. "If you're not a rude son of @#$%^, you clearly have no personality whatsoever! I mean, it's not like people can be entertaining without being rude, EVER!" *Facepalm*
While I don't mind a little chat in the game, especially in tournaments that feel professional yet also a little more laid back in a way (ESL), I would prefer that we get the best games possible, so preventing chat that may be distracting is probably best for this. I agree with others that innocent conversation was nice and yes, chat can be entertaining, but ultimately, ensuring the games are of high quality is also likely to help it to be entertaining. There are good and bad aspects to having such rules. I'd hope that if someone crosses that line just by typing something innocent other than "glhf" or "gg" wouldn't get disqualified for it though. -___-
ESL is still part of WCS though, right? So even they must abide by it? It does feel more like Blizzard enforcing KeSPA rules. :|
30 pages? That's less than one tenth of what Dungeons & Dragon players have for theirs.
On December 25 2013 22:38 Miragee wrote: Good thing. I hated all the BM ceremonies and trash talk in games. KeSPA rules were too strict imho. But as long as greetings and all forms of pause/gg are alowed that seems fine.
On December 23 2013 02:27 Gene(S)is wrote: Starting to look like Kespa, the very same organization Blizzard once sued. Can't they see what they are turning into?
You do know that the only reason Blizzard pursued legal action against KeSPA was to force the BW scene to end prematurely so people would buy SC2, right? They didn't even sue them over anything remotely related to this topic.
No, they did it to protect their copyrights and to sell SC2 in Korea. Since they had not challenged the right to broadcast BW for so many year, the needed to re-establish their rights to the IP. Blizzard didn't end the BW scene with the law suite and it was never their goal to do that.
I want to live in the same world as you, where Blizzard still had good intends with that one.
I would agree with Plansix on that except that you must note, he didn't specifically say they had only "Good intentions". I think they acted in self-interest (for profit, I mean) and certainly didn't do anything specifically to harm, but that isn't the same as trying to do what is most fair either, so I wouldn't say they had "Good" or "Bad" intentions.
I love the no talking rule. No reason for it to happen in WCS sanctioned events. We still have the homestory cups and shit where it'll be done and it'll be fun. Putting it down as a rule set in stone will just keep more controversy and drama out of the center of attention and make things run a bit more smoothly.
While I didn't check anything but the OP regarding these rules, I can't imagine they would enforce it for an online cup or event that did not give WCS points. Unless my assumption is wrong, then there are still plenty of events you can watch the trash talk/swearing/drinking during.
On December 23 2013 04:03 snow2.0 wrote: Why can drunk players be disqualified?
If they don't lose anyway, doesn't that just show they're better?
Prohibition type laws aren't meant to make any sense. Alcohol consumers, and cannabis consumers like myself should basically boycott the WCS if we can't enjoy ourselves legally with of age friends, family or fans. Ultimately if I have epliepsy and, Blizzard catches me smoking a joint they will turn me into the federalis. I will not be watching, or participating in WCS out of respect for the lack of insight from eSports @ Blizzard (this is looking at you Torch - and this is your 2nd strike with me - get one more - and I will be sprinkling weed seeds into your lawn into eternity).
rofl, this is why pot heads drive me nuts. You don't even understand the rule
On December 20 2013 23:56 Sly Faux wrote: I understand the reasons behind this, we need to act professional fi we are to be taken seriously, but this just rustle my jimmies. No offensive language, no in game chat... basically all the lovable friendly trash talk that really gets me hyped, is out. No more personalities everybody! Remember how much we loved Idra's "Fuck you" to Huk after that Halluc VR match? NO MORE OF THAT NOW!. Robots everybody, just play the game and get out.
4thelolz: No CHEATING!? Looks like the whole Protoss race is out... those advanced imbalanced theocratic dicks.
On December 20 2013 23:56 Sly Faux wrote: No offensive language, no in game chat... basically all the lovable friendly trash talk that really gets me hyped, is out. No more personalities everybody! Robots everybody, just play the game and get out.
People like this are so daft.
Who are you calling daft, punk?
I do not think offensive language was ever really an issue. I mean, sure there was some off color language in chat, but that just shows that these pros are human after all. I feel like the average/casual gamer can relate more with players when they see BM.. I mean, honestly, who hasn't said something horribly offensive online. It's natural to be angry when you lose because your opponent just gets lucky. You are mad at yourself but just project it to your opponent. In this technologic world, you don't suffer consequences because you never have to see the person face to face. Unfortunately, pros do... but no chat? What about the digital love that Huk shows to his opponents? It is possible that these rules might scare people into being robots rocking the SC2 scene even beyond in game. I have a theory that most people who are upset by these rules around the world are more upset because that is the way THEY behave, with BM and smoking da funk and like to see themselves reflected in the personalities of progamers because if someone like them can go pro, it's possible for you to go pro if you work harder,better,faster, and stronger. I don't really know how to articulate my thought of this into words, but hopefully someone can derezz it and clarify what I mean. It has been said before, but I want to draw attention to it one more time, these rules only affect WCS, so our other tournaments are safe. My favorite "trash talk" incident actually took place OUTSIDE of a game. This video is a perfect example of doin it right
On December 20 2013 23:56 Sly Faux wrote: I understand the reasons behind this, we need to act professional fi we are to be taken seriously, but this just rustle my jimmies. No offensive language, no in game chat... basically all the lovable friendly trash talk that really gets me hyped, is out. No more personalities everybody! Remember how much we loved Idra's "Fuck you" to Huk after that Halluc VR match? NO MORE OF THAT NOW!. Robots everybody, just play the game and get out.
4thelolz: No CHEATING!? Looks like the whole Protoss race is out... those advanced imbalanced theocratic dicks.
On December 20 2013 23:56 Sly Faux wrote: No offensive language, no in game chat... basically all the lovable friendly trash talk that really gets me hyped, is out. No more personalities everybody! Robots everybody, just play the game and get out.
People like this are so daft.
Who are you calling daft, punk?
I do not think offensive language was ever really an issue. I mean, sure there was some off color language in chat, but that just shows that these pros are human after all. I feel like the average/casual gamer can relate more with players when they see BM.. I mean, honestly, who hasn't said something horribly offensive online. It's natural to be angry when you lose because your opponent just gets lucky. You are mad at yourself but just project it to your opponent. In this technologic world, you don't suffer consequences because you never have to see the person face to face. Unfortunately, pros do... but no chat? What about the digital love that Huk shows to his opponents? It is possible that these rules might scare people into being robots rocking the SC2 scene even beyond in game. I have a theory that most people who are upset by these rules around the world are more upset because that is the way THEY behave, with BM and smoking da funk and like to see themselves reflected in the personalities of progamers because if someone like them can go pro, it's possible for you to go pro if you work harder,better,faster, and stronger. I don't really know how to articulate my thought of this into words, but hopefully someone can derezz it and clarify what I mean. It has been said before, but I want to draw attention to it one more time, these rules only affect WCS, so our other tournaments are safe. My favorite "trash talk" incident actually took place OUTSIDE of a game. This video is a perfect example of doin it right
One should always pursue to control ones emotions. There is nothing worse than a bad loser or winner. You are not a robot because you keep your frustrations or tantrums behind closed doors, rather than public eye. You are not more human because you can't, only not mature. You are not more human because you are drawn to drama. Trashtalk will alway be bad, and is communicating in an unconstructive way. Poking at someone in jest and between two parties that identifies it for what it is, is okay, of course. Not all receive it as intended though.
Being a good sport, showing respect for your adversary, by using sportmanlike conduct, is always admirable, and truth be told very hard to do, when disappointed. It is human to fail, but also human to succeed.
Well I guesse it would have been better to let the player more room for personalitly and emotions... I don´t know but to see somebody punished just for raging (sth like: "fuck that" or "thats a joke") is just lame and takes a lot away from the game in my opinion
On December 23 2013 04:03 snow2.0 wrote: Why can drunk players be disqualified?
If they don't lose anyway, doesn't that just show they're better?
Prohibition type laws aren't meant to make any sense. Alcohol consumers, and cannabis consumers like myself should basically boycott the WCS if we can't enjoy ourselves legally with of age friends, family or fans. Ultimately if I have epliepsy and, Blizzard catches me smoking a joint they will turn me into the federalis. I will not be watching, or participating in WCS out of respect for the lack of insight from eSports @ Blizzard (this is looking at you Torch - and this is your 2nd strike with me - get one more - and I will be sprinkling weed seeds into your lawn into eternity).
rofl, this is why pot heads drive me nuts. You don't even understand the rule
Thats what it is. Smoking pot is - besides other things - about giving a shit about the settled rules.
But what in disscussions makes no sense is saying this or that, him or her doesnt even understand ... doesnt even get! Oh what an .... Thats just for excluding people and for that no one has the right here (not taking into conclusion the moderating power of the forum). Think about taking some of the behaviour suggestions from blizzard and apply it to yourself not just when youre playing in the wcs. Would do some good.
Maybe after all, blizzard is going to make a better community? ;-P
I really don't like the no chat part, I also think players should be given the time to check a replay to see what went wrong in between games, I get annoyed by it as well, but I understand. Maybe they can put a time limit on it or something.
On December 20 2013 23:56 Sly Faux wrote: I understand the reasons behind this, we need to act professional fi we are to be taken seriously, but this just rustle my jimmies. No offensive language, no in game chat... basically all the lovable friendly trash talk that really gets me hyped, is out. No more personalities everybody! Remember how much we loved Idra's "Fuck you" to Huk after that Halluc VR match? NO MORE OF THAT NOW!. Robots everybody, just play the game and get out.
4thelolz: No CHEATING!? Looks like the whole Protoss race is out... those advanced imbalanced theocratic dicks.
User was warned for this post
Oh would you grow up.
I will NOT grow up
On December 26 2013 16:53 Fuchsteufelswild wrote:
On December 20 2013 23:56 Sly Faux wrote: No offensive language, no in game chat... basically all the lovable friendly trash talk that really gets me hyped, is out. No more personalities everybody! Robots everybody, just play the game and get out.
People like this are so daft.
Who are you calling daft, punk?
I do not think offensive language was ever really an issue. I mean, sure there was some off color language in chat, but that just shows that these pros are human after all. I feel like the average/casual gamer can relate more with players when they see BM.. I mean, honestly, who hasn't said something horribly offensive online. It's natural to be angry when you lose because your opponent just gets lucky. You are mad at yourself but just project it to your opponent. In this technologic world, you don't suffer consequences because you never have to see the person face to face. Unfortunately, pros do... but no chat? What about the digital love that Huk shows to his opponents? It is possible that these rules might scare people into being robots rocking the SC2 scene even beyond in game. I have a theory that most people who are upset by these rules around the world are more upset because that is the way THEY behave, with BM and smoking da funk and like to see themselves reflected in the personalities of progamers because if someone like them can go pro, it's possible for you to go pro if you work harder,better,faster, and stronger. I don't really know how to articulate my thought of this into words, but hopefully someone can derezz it and clarify what I mean. It has been said before, but I want to draw attention to it one more time, these rules only affect WCS, so our other tournaments are safe. My favorite "trash talk" incident actually took place OUTSIDE of a game. This video is a perfect example of doin it right
One should always pursue to control ones emotions. There is nothing worse than a bad loser or winner. You are not a robot because you keep your frustrations or tantrums behind closed doors, rather than public eye. You are not more human because you can't, only not mature. You are not more human because you are drawn to drama. Trashtalk will alway be bad, and is communicating in an unconstructive way. Poking at someone in jest and between two parties that identifies it for what it is, is okay, of course. Not all receive it as intended though.
Being a good sport, showing respect for your adversary, by using sportmanlike conduct, is always admirable, and truth be told very hard to do, when disappointed. It is human to fail, but also human to succeed.
Social constructs, what you think is absolute truth just stems from your culture. You basically just said "I hold Danish values to heart!".
On December 20 2013 23:56 Sly Faux wrote: I understand the reasons behind this, we need to act professional fi we are to be taken seriously, but this just rustle my jimmies. No offensive language, no in game chat... basically all the lovable friendly trash talk that really gets me hyped, is out. No more personalities everybody! Remember how much we loved Idra's "Fuck you" to Huk after that Halluc VR match? NO MORE OF THAT NOW!. Robots everybody, just play the game and get out.
4thelolz: No CHEATING!? Looks like the whole Protoss race is out... those advanced imbalanced theocratic dicks.
User was warned for this post
Oh would you grow up.
I will NOT grow up
On December 26 2013 16:53 Fuchsteufelswild wrote:
On December 20 2013 23:56 Sly Faux wrote: No offensive language, no in game chat... basically all the lovable friendly trash talk that really gets me hyped, is out. No more personalities everybody! Robots everybody, just play the game and get out.
People like this are so daft.
Who are you calling daft, punk?
I do not think offensive language was ever really an issue. I mean, sure there was some off color language in chat, but that just shows that these pros are human after all. I feel like the average/casual gamer can relate more with players when they see BM.. I mean, honestly, who hasn't said something horribly offensive online. It's natural to be angry when you lose because your opponent just gets lucky. You are mad at yourself but just project it to your opponent. In this technologic world, you don't suffer consequences because you never have to see the person face to face. Unfortunately, pros do... but no chat? What about the digital love that Huk shows to his opponents? It is possible that these rules might scare people into being robots rocking the SC2 scene even beyond in game. I have a theory that most people who are upset by these rules around the world are more upset because that is the way THEY behave, with BM and smoking da funk and like to see themselves reflected in the personalities of progamers because if someone like them can go pro, it's possible for you to go pro if you work harder,better,faster, and stronger. I don't really know how to articulate my thought of this into words, but hopefully someone can derezz it and clarify what I mean. It has been said before, but I want to draw attention to it one more time, these rules only affect WCS, so our other tournaments are safe. My favorite "trash talk" incident actually took place OUTSIDE of a game. This video is a perfect example of doin it right
One should always pursue to control ones emotions. There is nothing worse than a bad loser or winner. You are not a robot because you keep your frustrations or tantrums behind closed doors, rather than public eye. You are not more human because you can't, only not mature. You are not more human because you are drawn to drama. Trashtalk will alway be bad, and is communicating in an unconstructive way. Poking at someone in jest and between two parties that identifies it for what it is, is okay, of course. Not all receive it as intended though.
Being a good sport, showing respect for your adversary, by using sportmanlike conduct, is always admirable, and truth be told very hard to do, when disappointed. It is human to fail, but also human to succeed.
Social constructs, what you think is absolute truth just stems from your culture. You basically just said "I hold Danish values to heart!".
Funny, I would have thought having respect for your adversary and being well mannered was Eastern culture as well. And above all, losing face by showing emotions of defeat in public was losing face - more so in the East.
Sportsmanslike conduct is admirable, and is highly appreciated across all cultures, not just in Denmark. Maybe you just never learned it.
EPT
Makes controversies a whole lot easier to settle. Good! 
when something happened or what??
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4efHByB.jpg)
