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mousesports in Choosing Your Identity

Forum Index > SC2 General
80 CommentsPost a Reply
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mousesports in Choosing Your Identity

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
December 19th, 2013 22:14 GMT
2013 WCS Europe

Choosing Your Identity

After its worst year in StarCraft 2, mousesports has decided to change.

by Waxangel

Quietly hidden amidst all of WCS system changes, player retirements, Jaedong silvers, and other storylines of 2013 was the decline of mousesports. Having been a part of the big-three of international teams alongside Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid since the beginning of StarCraft 2, 2013 was a year where mouz fell to the wayside, surpassed by teams like Axiom and Acer.

So, what happened? The short answer is that they simply suffered the same fate as the entire foreign scene: They lost to Koreans. In a year where Korean progamers won every single major tournament, it was little surprise that a team that defined itself as 'not-Korean' failed to keep up. Not when their competitors were being led by elite Koreans like TaeJa, INnoVation, and Jaedong.

And so, in a colossal signing, mouz acquired two-time WCS champion and top Korean Protoss (P)Dear. mouz had bit the bullet, but they had their world class player.

As for the longer answer....

[image loading]
Nope, no foreigners here.
-photo: silverfire

Back in May, mouz acquired the Spanish brothers VortiX and Lucifron, two of the top non-Korean players not signed to a "big" team. It was an obvious move for mouz, a team that had always been on the vanguard of the European scene. Starting with the mass acquisition of Brood War and WarCraft III players during the StarCraft 2 beta, mouz had rapidly built a reputation for finding and signing future European championships, with players like Morrow, Naama, ThorZaIN, and MaNa collecting silverware for the Germany-based team. Given the brothers' past success and high regard in Europe, few were surprised to see them become the newest players to don the crimson. Alongside some more speculative acquisitions in Illusion and hOpe, mouz was set for the future.

Or at least, it seemed so at the time. As it turned out, things just wouldn't pan out for mouz in 2013. Former ace MaNa saw his form drop harshly in HotS, going from championship caliber to middle-tier. Illusion and hOpe didn't quite work out as planned. Germans HasuObs and HeRoMaRinE were able to win domestic titles, but neither could make a splash in international competition. Worst of all, VortiX and Lucifron failed to pay off after looking like sure things at the time of signing. Top eight finishes were all that Lucifron could manage, whereas his brother did slightly better with a top four finish in WCS Europe. After winning multiple titles in the years past, mouz didn't even come close to sniffing a major championship in 2013.

On one hand, there seemed to be plenty of reason for mouz to stay the course. Getting wrecked by Koreans was pretty much the story for all foreigners in 2013, save a few like NaNiwa and Scarlett. Even the best prospectors don't always strike gold, and mouz could still have chalked it up as a decent year when comparing themselves to the foreigner field as a whole. There was also enough past precedent to be patient with the roster – after all ThorZaIN had taken almost a year to deliver a second major title (he delivered one immediately on signing, but only because he had been signed directly before the TSL3 finals), while MaNa took nearly two.

On the other hand, mousesports had to see the writing on the wall. With the Korean All-Kill of 2013's major events, there was no way to deny that the Korea-World skill gap was increasing. In a worrisome trend, the same standard-bearers of foreigner hope in 2012 – Stephano, NaNiwa, and Scarlett – continued to shoulder the burden in 2013. Few newcomers showed signs of being able to follow in their path. Not only that, but more Koreans were competing at foreign events than ever before. All the other foreign teams had one or more elite Koreans on their squads who received generous flight support, while the Koreans stuck on domestic teams had mastered the workings of online qualifiers and were ready to seize any opportunity. Winning a championship with a non-Korean roster had ceased to be a viable strategy.

In the end, mouz had to keep up with the Joneses. When asked for comment, mouz.Max, head coordinator of mousesport's SC2 division, said the following:

"We really liked the idea of being the only true foreign team who could compete in most tournaments. For most of the time it was very successful as well. But 2013 has shown that we can't go on with it forever. We had an eye on the Korean scene for the entire year and when we had the chance to sign Dear, we went for it. He perfectly fits into our general profile and our team. Dear was the number one on our list and our very first choice.

We want the best of both worlds, the Korean and the foreign community. This was no decision against the foreign scene or our European players. We won't abandon our hopes and goals for the foreign scene."


[image loading]
In happier times.
-photo: silverfire

As Evil Geniuses' recent axing of Oz, aLive, and Revival reminds us, winning by itself is not especially important in esports. In such an industry, few teams made quietly winning as much a part of their identity as mouz. Though its players weren't without their own brand of unassuming charisma, mouz was never a PR machine like EG or Liquid. The fact that their players won, and won a lot, was a large part of what defined mousesports and made them notable in StarCraft 2. That, and the fact that they had no Koreans.

When push came to shove, mousesports could only preserve one part of their identity. They chose winning.

Writer: Waxangel.
Photos: Silverfire.
Editors: Antoine, DarkLordOlli and Waxangel.
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TL+ Member
phipsL
Profile Joined November 2012
Germany189 Posts
December 19 2013 22:25 GMT
#2
Heromarine will be the next foreign hope... once he finishes school ...
I'm a f*cking walking paradox.
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
December 19 2013 22:27 GMT
#3
Meh, for me the identity of mouz was never the one winning international tournaments. In my opinion, they just sold their identity for a better performance in teamleagues. I don't blame them, but I don't have to like that move one bit...
NeThZOR
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
South Africa7387 Posts
December 19 2013 22:29 GMT
#4
Dear in more foreign tournaments now. Domination.
SuperNova - 2015 | SKT1 fan for years | Dear, FlaSh, PartinG, Soulkey, Naniwa
DinoMight
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States3725 Posts
December 19 2013 22:29 GMT
#5
I think the more Koreans that join foreign teams, the more foreigners will get to practice with Koreans and improve their skill. Like I've said before, Koreans are not born with StarCraft 2 skills...

Good pickup for Mousesports. Also it will be nice to see Dear at more foreign events now.
"Wtf I come back and find myself in camp DinoMight all of a sudden, feels weird man." -Wombat_NI
Srontgorrth
Profile Joined August 2012
United States204 Posts
December 19 2013 22:31 GMT
#6
nice write up; this sentence could use an edit though
"Few newcomers showed signs of being follow in their path."
"i think that message boards were created so that shy people could be assholes"
OPL3SA2
Profile Joined April 2011
United States378 Posts
December 19 2013 22:31 GMT
#7
Good writeup. Good synopsis of the 2013 scene.
Playoffs? You're talking about playoffs?
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
December 19 2013 22:32 GMT
#8
On December 20 2013 07:29 DinoMight wrote:
I think the more Koreans that join foreign teams, the more foreigners will get to practice with Koreans and improve their skill. Like I've said before, Koreans are not born with StarCraft 2 skills...

Good pickup for Mousesports. Also it will be nice to see Dear at more foreign events now.

pretty much this. I think this was a good move. As mentioned in the article, Mouz still has to survive as well and Dear joining the team will give me a top tier protoss player improving all of the team's members. Dear going to more foreign events should be good as well. Jaedong on a foreign team made a big difference in his improvements.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
December 19 2013 22:36 GMT
#9
On December 20 2013 07:29 DinoMight wrote:
I think the more Koreans that join foreign teams, the more foreigners will get to practice with Koreans and improve their skill. Like I've said before, Koreans are not born with StarCraft 2 skills...

Good pickup for Mousesports. Also it will be nice to see Dear at more foreign events now.


Koreans in foreigner teams = practice for foreigners is a myth.
Stop saying that. Both the Koreans and the foreigners do 99% of their practice time on ladder.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
Aeroplaneoverthesea
Profile Joined April 2012
United Kingdom1977 Posts
December 19 2013 22:43 GMT
#10
On December 20 2013 07:29 DinoMight wrote:
I think the more Koreans that join foreign teams, the more foreigners will get to practice with Koreans and improve their skill. Like I've said before, Koreans are not born with StarCraft 2 skills...

Good pickup for Mousesports. Also it will be nice to see Dear at more foreign events now.


This isn't true at all.

People have been saying this since forever and despite the fact that more and more Koreans are on foreign teams than ever before the gap between foreigners and Koreans just gets bigger and bigger.
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
December 19 2013 22:44 GMT
#11
I had always hoped the mouz would be the one to help the foreign scene to become competitive again funded by local sponsors because of their dominance in the local scene (like in Germany and Spain, though the latter scene is still very small), so much for my hopes.

Oh well, I still wish you all well in your future way and I hope it will work out as you planned, mouz.
Aeroplaneoverthesea
Profile Joined April 2012
United Kingdom1977 Posts
December 19 2013 22:45 GMT
#12
On December 20 2013 07:44 JustPassingBy wrote:
I had always hoped the mouz would be the one to help the foreign scene to become competitive again funded by local sponsors because of their dominance in the local scene (like in Germany and Spain, though the latter scene is still very small), so much for my hopes.

Oh well, I still wish you all well in your future way and I hope it will work out as you planned, mouz.


The foreign scene is never going to be competitive again (was it ever?) Koreans will always dominate this game.
Ammanas
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Slovakia2166 Posts
December 19 2013 22:46 GMT
#13
On December 20 2013 07:14 Waxangel wrote:

As Evil Geniuses' recent axing of Oz, aLive, and Revival reminds us, winning by itself is not especially important in esports.


Which is exactly what is wrong with the foreign Starcraft scene and I would also (at least partially) blame it for foreigners being unable to match Koreans.
JangBi forever <3 || Classic! herO! Rain! Zest! | Rogue! Hydra! Solar! | Fantasy! Cure! Reality! Sorry! Journey!
SC2ShoWTimE
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany722 Posts
December 19 2013 22:50 GMT
#14
On December 20 2013 07:43 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2013 07:29 DinoMight wrote:
I think the more Koreans that join foreign teams, the more foreigners will get to practice with Koreans and improve their skill. Like I've said before, Koreans are not born with StarCraft 2 skills...

Good pickup for Mousesports. Also it will be nice to see Dear at more foreign events now.


This isn't true at all.

People have been saying this since forever and despite the fact that more and more Koreans are on foreign teams than ever before the gap between foreigners and Koreans just gets bigger and bigger.


well, most koreans who join a foreign team stay in korea and practicing cross server doesnt make much sense.
Progamer
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
December 19 2013 22:56 GMT
#15
On December 20 2013 07:25 phipsL wrote:
Heromarine will be the next foreign hope... once he finishes school ...


Don't say that. It's like condemning him to follow the path of Lucifron and Major. :\
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
December 19 2013 22:58 GMT
#16
On December 20 2013 07:50 SC2ShoWTimE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2013 07:43 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
On December 20 2013 07:29 DinoMight wrote:
I think the more Koreans that join foreign teams, the more foreigners will get to practice with Koreans and improve their skill. Like I've said before, Koreans are not born with StarCraft 2 skills...

Good pickup for Mousesports. Also it will be nice to see Dear at more foreign events now.


This isn't true at all.

People have been saying this since forever and despite the fact that more and more Koreans are on foreign teams than ever before the gap between foreigners and Koreans just gets bigger and bigger.


well, most koreans who join a foreign team stay in korea and practicing cross server doesnt make much sense.


Agreed, so let's drop the talk about how foreigners will benefit practise wise if their teams sign a player living in Korea. Besides, why would a team order his players in Korea to train with players outside of Korea? that would obviously benefit the other player and a team plays no favourites.
HaRuHi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
1220 Posts
December 19 2013 22:59 GMT
#17
Hopefully they become better at marketing their players aswell. Quite ballsy to aquire a Protoss, at least Korean Terrans have something going for them (As Terrans aren`t made in other countries atm).
Bowzar
Profile Joined December 2011
Sweden741 Posts
December 19 2013 23:01 GMT
#18
On December 20 2013 07:46 Ammanas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2013 07:14 Waxangel wrote:

As Evil Geniuses' recent axing of Oz, aLive, and Revival reminds us, winning by itself is not especially important in esports.


Which is exactly what is wrong with the foreign Starcraft scene and I would also (at least partially) blame it for foreigners being unable to match Koreans.

Thats a really bad example. EGs brand is huge, they dont need to win anymore in order to stay relevant. Other teams that are trying to establish their brands needs to win badly.
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
December 19 2013 23:01 GMT
#19
On December 20 2013 07:56 Bagration wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2013 07:25 phipsL wrote:
Heromarine will be the next foreign hope... once he finishes school ...


Don't say that. It's like condemning him to follow the path of Lucifron and Major. :\

It is his destiny, all foreign terrans must face the day when they become overhyped.
Glorious SEA doto
Ammanas
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Slovakia2166 Posts
December 19 2013 23:03 GMT
#20
On December 20 2013 08:01 Bowzar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2013 07:46 Ammanas wrote:
On December 20 2013 07:14 Waxangel wrote:

As Evil Geniuses' recent axing of Oz, aLive, and Revival reminds us, winning by itself is not especially important in esports.


Which is exactly what is wrong with the foreign Starcraft scene and I would also (at least partially) blame it for foreigners being unable to match Koreans.

Thats a really bad example. EGs brand is huge, they dont need to win anymore in order to stay relevant. Other teams that are trying to establish their brands needs to win badly.

I shall repeat myself:
Which is exactly what is wrong with the foreign Starcraft scene and I would also (at least partially) blame it for foreigners being unable to match Koreans.
JangBi forever <3 || Classic! herO! Rain! Zest! | Rogue! Hydra! Solar! | Fantasy! Cure! Reality! Sorry! Journey!
wrier
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada291 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-19 23:11:53
December 19 2013 23:10 GMT
#21
Going to be so awesome to see Dear at foreign events.
NovaMB
Profile Joined February 2013
Germany9534 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-19 23:12:41
December 19 2013 23:12 GMT
#22
On December 20 2013 08:10 wrier wrote:
Lucifron never got a top 4 in WCS EU. He lost the 5th place spot to the season 1 finals to TLO.


Top eight finishes were all that Lucifron could manage, whereas his brother did slightly better with a top four finish in WCS Europe

I dont see whats wrong

Edit: T_T
SinCitta
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany2127 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-19 23:19:32
December 19 2013 23:16 GMT
#23
On December 20 2013 07:44 JustPassingBy wrote:
I had always hoped the mouz would be the one to help the foreign scene to become competitive again funded by local sponsors because of their dominance in the local scene (like in Germany and Spain, though the latter scene is still very small), so much for my hopes.

Oh well, I still wish you all well in your future way and I hope it will work out as you planned, mouz.


I don't think that "only foreigners/no Koreans" was ever there dogma. It's something that happened along the way. They weren't willing to put that much money out for top transfers and they were knowledgeable enough not to sign random Koreans just to depart with them six months later with nothing notable achieved during that time.

I don't think it will change much for the rest of the squad. VortiX, LucifroN and HeroMarine seem to prefer ladder anyways and Dear will want to concentrate on Korea. The Germans will still want to play EPS and the Spaniards do their thing (something between mediocre results to being Top foreigners). I don't think mouz will start ignoring oppurtunities to sign foreign talents (besides budget considerations) but it's not like European talent is sprouting everywhere.
Bowzar
Profile Joined December 2011
Sweden741 Posts
December 19 2013 23:18 GMT
#24
On December 20 2013 08:03 Ammanas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2013 08:01 Bowzar wrote:
On December 20 2013 07:46 Ammanas wrote:
On December 20 2013 07:14 Waxangel wrote:

As Evil Geniuses' recent axing of Oz, aLive, and Revival reminds us, winning by itself is not especially important in esports.


Which is exactly what is wrong with the foreign Starcraft scene and I would also (at least partially) blame it for foreigners being unable to match Koreans.

Thats a really bad example. EGs brand is huge, they dont need to win anymore in order to stay relevant. Other teams that are trying to establish their brands needs to win badly.

I shall repeat myself:
Which is exactly what is wrong with the foreign Starcraft scene and I would also (at least partially) blame it for foreigners being unable to match Koreans.

But they had to win to get there. Idra used to be really good, Puma won a shitton of foreign tournaments and of course the infamous poach of the best foreigner from the most popular team. Winning might not be that important anymore for EG but there is a reason why they picked up Puma and so many other teams picked up skilled Koreans and it sure as hell aint for marketing purposes.
scypio
Profile Joined December 2011
Poland2127 Posts
December 19 2013 23:25 GMT
#25
I miss the times when we had two separate pools of players, when foreigners would fight against each other on regular basis and only in the biggest tournaments they would have to face some strong Koreans.

It's game over now, whatever is going on Acer will send Innovation, EG - Jeadong, TL - Teaja and now mouz with Dear. And if that's not enought Pol, Hyun and Stardust will come and join the fight.

I like all these guys, but somehow the way things are now make the competition less exciting.
I play random | I like Hots | INnoVation | sOs | Tefel TOP1!
Chaggi
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)1936 Posts
December 19 2013 23:27 GMT
#26
Dear's my favorite Protoss player so watching him in foreign tournaments will be great. I hope to see more Jaedong, Innovation and Dear at those tournaments, battling it out. Should be great to watch in 2014
AlternativeEgo
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden17309 Posts
December 19 2013 23:29 GMT
#27
Given the brothers' past success and high regard in Europe, few were surprised to see them become the newest players to don the crimson


Either my memory is acting up or you are fiddling with history, Wax.
Mark Munoz looks like Gretorp
goswser
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3519 Posts
December 19 2013 23:30 GMT
#28
On December 20 2013 08:27 Chaggi wrote:
Dear's my favorite Protoss player so watching him in foreign tournaments will be great. I hope to see more Jaedong, Innovation and Dear at those tournaments, battling it out. Should be great to watch in 2014

Don't worry then, you'll get that in 2014. At EVERY tournament in 2014. RIP foreign sc2.
say you were born into a jungle indian tribe where food was scarce...would you run around from teepee to teepee stealing meat scraps after a day lazying around doing nothing except warming urself by a fire that you didn't even make yourself? -rekrul
Purce
Profile Joined January 2013
Italy31 Posts
December 19 2013 23:33 GMT
#29
All those koreans make the foreign scene more interesting. This doesn't mean the foreign scene is terrible, but now with inno, dear etc will be amazing. I don't see the participation of koreans to foreign tourneys as a bad thing. If they are better they deserve to participate and win. It's time for the foreigners to practice very hard in 2014!
gade1123
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
United States144 Posts
December 19 2013 23:40 GMT
#30
gotta love dear, he's gotta pretty face
GOOGLE: I FUCKING HATE HATE METH (im feelin lucky)
Schelim
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Austria11528 Posts
December 19 2013 23:40 GMT
#31
On December 20 2013 08:30 goswser wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2013 08:27 Chaggi wrote:
Dear's my favorite Protoss player so watching him in foreign tournaments will be great. I hope to see more Jaedong, Innovation and Dear at those tournaments, battling it out. Should be great to watch in 2014

Don't worry then, you'll get that in 2014. At EVERY tournament in 2014. RIP foreign sc2.

is this an american zerg player thing? where is this whining and bitching really gonna get you? maybe it would be a better idea to practice or watch VODs or something. or you could find a more reliable way of earning money if you're really that worried. it's also a bit of an overreaction to say "RIP foreign sc2" because one player was signed to one team.
TY <3 Cure <3 Inno <3 Special <3
Derez
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Netherlands6068 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-19 23:52:14
December 19 2013 23:41 GMT
#32
On December 20 2013 08:29 AlternativeEgo wrote:
Show nested quote +
Given the brothers' past success and high regard in Europe, few were surprised to see them become the newest players to don the crimson


Either my memory is acting up or you are fiddling with history, Wax.

I remember the signing of luci and vortix to be quite suprising too, seeing how they declined so many offers from other teams in the past. That said, they did fit well within the mouz team.

Also, big fan of this signing. All teams, korean and foreign, competing for the best players is a good thing for the scene and the players. Acer signed the robot on results, Mouz is signing Dear on results. Other teams should take notice and start doing the same instead of retaining or recruiting solely based on marketability and fanbase.

On December 20 2013 08:30 goswser wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2013 08:27 Chaggi wrote:
Dear's my favorite Protoss player so watching him in foreign tournaments will be great. I hope to see more Jaedong, Innovation and Dear at those tournaments, battling it out. Should be great to watch in 2014

Don't worry then, you'll get that in 2014. At EVERY tournament in 2014. RIP foreign sc2.

EU/NA players with even a modicum of success or potential get contracts the average korean pro can only dream of. How about they actually step up their game? Plenty of foreigners have shown good progression, it's just that for all the 'pro's' we have only a very small number of them are truly dedicated. Instead of getting the practice they need in a korean setting all that happens is EU/NA players staying in their own house, playing ladder and streaming. There's no effort (at least not visible) to professionalize, to emulate the system that works. If the koreans show us anything, its that you actually have to live the game 24/7 to be great at it, which is a sacrifice few western players seem willing to make. That's probably a good choice to make, but you can't have it both ways and at this point, foreign players (and teams) have noone but themselves to blame.
PresenceSc2
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4032 Posts
December 20 2013 00:00 GMT
#33
wowzers, good for Dear! Seeing him at more events next year will be good.
Stephano//HerO//TaeJa//Squirtle//Bomber
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
December 20 2013 00:03 GMT
#34
On December 20 2013 08:16 SinCitta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2013 07:44 JustPassingBy wrote:
I had always hoped the mouz would be the one to help the foreign scene to become competitive again funded by local sponsors because of their dominance in the local scene (like in Germany and Spain, though the latter scene is still very small), so much for my hopes.

Oh well, I still wish you all well in your future way and I hope it will work out as you planned, mouz.


I don't think that "only foreigners/no Koreans" was ever there dogma. It's something that happened along the way. They weren't willing to put that much money out for top transfers and they were knowledgeable enough not to sign random Koreans just to depart with them six months later with nothing notable achieved during that time.

I don't think it will change much for the rest of the squad. VortiX, LucifroN and HeroMarine seem to prefer ladder anyways and Dear will want to concentrate on Korea. The Germans will still want to play EPS and the Spaniards do their thing (something between mediocre results to being Top foreigners). I don't think mouz will start ignoring oppurtunities to sign foreign talents (besides budget considerations) but it's not like European talent is sprouting everywhere.


Meh, I never claimed that his was supposed to be their dogma, it's just how I viewed them. As I said, I respect their choice, but I had hoped for them to use their funds to support up and coming players, even with the low chance of success, similar to how they did with Heromarine and Hasuobs (though this was a long time ago in a different game). And you can help talent to spout by creating the right environment, it's what Korean teams have been doing since the dawn of (eSport) time with their team houses.
Chigge
Profile Joined October 2011
129 Posts
December 20 2013 00:19 GMT
#35
Alliance still only foreigners
SinCitta
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany2127 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-20 00:29:06
December 20 2013 00:21 GMT
#36
On December 20 2013 09:03 JustPassingBy wrote:
Meh, I never claimed that his was supposed to be their dogma, it's just how I viewed them.


Yeah, was just trying to bring the discussion forward.

On December 20 2013 09:03 JustPassingBy wrote:
And you can help talent to spout by creating the right environment, it's what Korean teams have been doing since the dawn of (eSport) time with their team houses.


That's correct, but to be frank that's not something that Europeans teams (can) do (on their own).

Edit: What they did with Hasu or HeroMarine they still can do even with very, very small budget left.
pmp10
Profile Joined April 2012
3318 Posts
December 20 2013 00:28 GMT
#37
Nice write-up.
Mouz in sacrificing their foreigners-only image is gambling that Dear won't become another Seed.
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-20 00:32:36
December 20 2013 00:32 GMT
#38
On December 20 2013 09:21 SinCitta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2013 09:03 JustPassingBy wrote:
Meh, I never claimed that his was supposed to be their dogma, it's just how I viewed them.


Yeah, was just trying to bring the discussion forward.

Show nested quote +
On December 20 2013 09:03 JustPassingBy wrote:
And you can help talent to spout by creating the right environment, it's what Korean teams have been doing since the dawn of (eSport) time with their team houses.


That's correct, but to be frank that's not something that Europeans teams (can) do (on their own).


Well, I certainly won't start claiming that I know what team can and cannot do. It's just... I don't even see them (the big teams) trying... I really hope that I'm just too fucking blind and that somebody can correct me on this one...
DavoS
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States4605 Posts
December 20 2013 00:42 GMT
#39
Mana was kicking so much ass in the early weeks of HotS too, it sucks that it didn't pan out into a championship.
I always liked that mouz was a haven for foreign juggernauts, but none of their old world class players look as good as they did in Wings
"KDA is actually the most useless stat in the game" Aui_2000
boxerfred
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Germany8360 Posts
December 20 2013 01:09 GMT
#40
Anyone remembering when mouzThorZaiN to EGThorZaiN evoked those "EG CURSE!" shouts? I miss that time
Clbull
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United Kingdom1439 Posts
December 20 2013 01:42 GMT
#41
Lucifron's HotS career died the moment the Hellbat was nerfed. A lot of his victories (especially in ATC) relied on dropping that unit on enemy mineral lines.

As for VortiX, he was a bona fide patchzerg who has not yet managed to secure another big breakout performance.

User was temp banned for this post.
rkshox
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Taiwan536 Posts
December 20 2013 03:02 GMT
#42
On December 20 2013 07:36 Noocta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2013 07:29 DinoMight wrote:
I think the more Koreans that join foreign teams, the more foreigners will get to practice with Koreans and improve their skill. Like I've said before, Koreans are not born with StarCraft 2 skills...

Good pickup for Mousesports. Also it will be nice to see Dear at more foreign events now.


Koreans in foreigner teams = practice for foreigners is a myth.
Stop saying that. Both the Koreans and the foreigners do 99% of their practice time on ladder.


Everyone has the impression that Koreans joining foreign teams means better practice partners for foreigners, but that's not always the case. Liquid for example, does not have a team house and none of the players have lived together since oGs-TL and EG-TL houses. Of course there was a time when Jinro, HerO, and TLO got a house together in Korea, but can you really count that as a gaming house?

Of course we can't really say how much practicing goes on behind the scenes when the pros aren't streaming and tweeting. You never know!
@ranleee /// "first we expand, then we defense it'
Baadbeat
Profile Joined June 2011
France203 Posts
December 20 2013 03:21 GMT
#43
I think it was time for mouz to sign a Korean player if they want to come back as a top foreign team. And acquiring Dear is a great way to boost your way up to that.
But I don't think that acquiring Dear will help the players from mouz nor the foreign scene unless mouz builds a team house in Europe and that Dear comes to practice in Europe on the EU ladder. But that could also cause Dear's level to decrease in the long run…
Cheren
Profile Blog Joined September 2013
United States2911 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-20 04:51:34
December 20 2013 04:41 GMT
#44
On December 20 2013 07:36 Noocta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2013 07:29 DinoMight wrote:
I think the more Koreans that join foreign teams, the more foreigners will get to practice with Koreans and improve their skill. Like I've said before, Koreans are not born with StarCraft 2 skills...

Good pickup for Mousesports. Also it will be nice to see Dear at more foreign events now.


Koreans in foreigner teams = practice for foreigners is a myth.
Stop saying that. Both the Koreans and the foreigners do 99% of their practice time on ladder.


If that's true then no one practices more than 5 hours a day, and almost everyone practices under 4.

edit:

http://www.sc2ranks.com/ and sort by wins. It takes around 4-5 hours to play 20 games, and the season started around 40 days ago.

Notice that everyone has under 800 games played, and the majority of players have much less than that. The GM average seems to be under 400 games, which is around 10 ladder games a day.

So either progamers play lots of customs, or they practice much, much less than 8 hours a day.
fmright
Profile Joined December 2013
1 Post
December 20 2013 06:33 GMT
#45
--- Nuked ---
andrewlt
Profile Joined August 2009
United States7702 Posts
December 20 2013 07:44 GMT
#46
On December 20 2013 08:27 Chaggi wrote:
Dear's my favorite Protoss player so watching him in foreign tournaments will be great. I hope to see more Jaedong, Innovation and Dear at those tournaments, battling it out. Should be great to watch in 2014


Yup. I watch SC2 like I watch basketball. I watch WCS Korea for the NBA-style best of the best against each other. I watch foreign tournaments for the same reason I watch the US national team, to see one dominant country beat the crap out of hapless foreigners.
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
December 20 2013 08:05 GMT
#47
On December 20 2013 13:41 Cheren wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2013 07:36 Noocta wrote:
On December 20 2013 07:29 DinoMight wrote:
I think the more Koreans that join foreign teams, the more foreigners will get to practice with Koreans and improve their skill. Like I've said before, Koreans are not born with StarCraft 2 skills...

Good pickup for Mousesports. Also it will be nice to see Dear at more foreign events now.


Koreans in foreigner teams = practice for foreigners is a myth.
Stop saying that. Both the Koreans and the foreigners do 99% of their practice time on ladder.


If that's true then no one practices more than 5 hours a day, and almost everyone practices under 4.

edit:

http://www.sc2ranks.com/ and sort by wins. It takes around 4-5 hours to play 20 games, and the season started around 40 days ago.

Notice that everyone has under 800 games played, and the majority of players have much less than that. The GM average seems to be under 400 games, which is around 10 ladder games a day.

So either progamers play lots of customs, or they practice much, much less than 8 hours a day.


Citation needed
Nightwishone
Profile Joined July 2012
Italy391 Posts
December 20 2013 08:35 GMT
#48
Wow, that's unexpected! But still, foreign teams seem to have the upper hand when it comes to stability lately.
TaeJa IS a bonjwa. TLO - Scarlett - Snute - MaNa - HerO - TeamLiquid fighting!
Cheren
Profile Blog Joined September 2013
United States2911 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-20 09:13:00
December 20 2013 09:11 GMT
#49
On December 20 2013 17:05 JustPassingBy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2013 13:41 Cheren wrote:
On December 20 2013 07:36 Noocta wrote:
On December 20 2013 07:29 DinoMight wrote:
I think the more Koreans that join foreign teams, the more foreigners will get to practice with Koreans and improve their skill. Like I've said before, Koreans are not born with StarCraft 2 skills...

Good pickup for Mousesports. Also it will be nice to see Dear at more foreign events now.


Koreans in foreigner teams = practice for foreigners is a myth.
Stop saying that. Both the Koreans and the foreigners do 99% of their practice time on ladder.


If that's true then no one practices more than 5 hours a day, and almost everyone practices under 4.

edit:

http://www.sc2ranks.com/ and sort by wins. It takes around 4-5 hours to play 20 games, and the season started around 40 days ago.

Notice that everyone has under 800 games played, and the majority of players have much less than that. The GM average seems to be under 400 games, which is around 10 ladder games a day.

So either progamers play lots of customs, or they practice much, much less than 8 hours a day.


Citation needed


sc2gears multi-rep analysis shows average game is 12-15 minutes real time. even if people play really long games it would be like a 20 minute real time average, which still puts 800 games a season (which no one in top GM has) at well under 8 hours a day of practice.

Thanks for your useless comment, by the way.
Drake
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany6146 Posts
December 20 2013 09:20 GMT
#50
On December 20 2013 07:36 Noocta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2013 07:29 DinoMight wrote:
I think the more Koreans that join foreign teams, the more foreigners will get to practice with Koreans and improve their skill. Like I've said before, Koreans are not born with StarCraft 2 skills...

Good pickup for Mousesports. Also it will be nice to see Dear at more foreign events now.


Koreans in foreigner teams = practice for foreigners is a myth.
Stop saying that. Both the Koreans and the foreigners do 99% of their practice time on ladder.


what ? i know like as example cj make 95% inhouse training so why you say such bs ?
Nb.Drake / CoL_Drake / Original Joined TL.net Tuesday, 15th of March 2005
Bowzar
Profile Joined December 2011
Sweden741 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-20 09:35:22
December 20 2013 09:33 GMT
#51
On December 20 2013 08:30 goswser wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2013 08:27 Chaggi wrote:
Dear's my favorite Protoss player so watching him in foreign tournaments will be great. I hope to see more Jaedong, Innovation and Dear at those tournaments, battling it out. Should be great to watch in 2014

Don't worry then, you'll get that in 2014. At EVERY tournament in 2014. RIP foreign sc2.

ESF teams stepped their game up when Kespa entered the picture why do you have to roll over and die without putting up a fight?
Grovbolle
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark3805 Posts
December 20 2013 09:39 GMT
#52
The fall of LucifroN

Results for es LucifroN after 2013-11-10.

Games: 5.560% (1-17)
Matches: 0.000% (0-8)

Current Form:
      L L L L L L L L
Recent Matches:
       es LucifroN 1 – 2 kr TheStC
       es LucifroN 0 – 3 kr jjakji
       es LucifroN 0 – 3 fi elfi
       es LucifroN 0 – 2 se NaNiwa
       es LucifroN 0 – 2 kr Patience
       es LucifroN 0 – 2 de TLO
       es LucifroN 0 – 2 kr HyuN
       es LucifroN 0 – 1 kr Alicia


Filters:
+ Show Spoiler +
Opponent Race:    all
Opponent Country: all
Match Format: all
On/offline: both
Game Version: all

Stats by Aligulac. Link.

[image loading]
Lies, damned lies and statistics: http://aligulac.com
Kasaraki
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Denmark7115 Posts
December 20 2013 09:44 GMT
#53
On December 20 2013 18:39 Grovbolle wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
The fall of LucifroN

Results for es LucifroN after 2013-11-10.

Games: 5.560% (1-17)
Matches: 0.000% (0-8)

Current Form:
      L L L L L L L L
Recent Matches:
       es LucifroN 1 – 2 kr TheStC
       es LucifroN 0 – 3 kr jjakji
       es LucifroN 0 – 3 fi elfi
       es LucifroN 0 – 2 se NaNiwa
       es LucifroN 0 – 2 kr Patience
       es LucifroN 0 – 2 de TLO
       es LucifroN 0 – 2 kr HyuN
       es LucifroN 0 – 1 kr Alicia


Filters:
+ Show Spoiler +
Opponent Race:    all
Opponent Country: all
Match Format: all
On/offline: both
Game Version: all

Stats by Aligulac. Link.

[image loading]

Oooh, that's the greatest free-fall I've seen on Aligulac. Just amazing, it's almost completely vertical, as almost all the games are 0-X losses in an offline environment.
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
December 20 2013 10:03 GMT
#54
Is he still in school? That might explain the decline in form as of late.
NovaMB
Profile Joined February 2013
Germany9534 Posts
December 20 2013 10:04 GMT
#55
On December 20 2013 19:03 Talin wrote:
Is he still in school? That might explain the decline in form as of late.

He had Lasik surgery and I dont think he has really recovered yet.
Zerg.Zilla
Profile Joined February 2012
Hungary5029 Posts
December 20 2013 10:05 GMT
#56
Hell yeah! First Acer got MMA,INnoVation and now MousDear! Europe ftw! :D
(•_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) ~Keep calm and inject Larva~
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-20 10:07:47
December 20 2013 10:05 GMT
#57
On December 20 2013 18:11 Cheren wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2013 17:05 JustPassingBy wrote:
On December 20 2013 13:41 Cheren wrote:
On December 20 2013 07:36 Noocta wrote:
On December 20 2013 07:29 DinoMight wrote:
I think the more Koreans that join foreign teams, the more foreigners will get to practice with Koreans and improve their skill. Like I've said before, Koreans are not born with StarCraft 2 skills...

Good pickup for Mousesports. Also it will be nice to see Dear at more foreign events now.


Koreans in foreigner teams = practice for foreigners is a myth.
Stop saying that. Both the Koreans and the foreigners do 99% of their practice time on ladder.


If that's true then no one practices more than 5 hours a day, and almost everyone practices under 4.

edit:

http://www.sc2ranks.com/ and sort by wins. It takes around 4-5 hours to play 20 games, and the season started around 40 days ago.

Notice that everyone has under 800 games played, and the majority of players have much less than that. The GM average seems to be under 400 games, which is around 10 ladder games a day.

So either progamers play lots of customs, or they practice much, much less than 8 hours a day.


Citation needed


sc2gears multi-rep analysis shows average game is 12-15 minutes real time. even if people play really long games it would be like a 20 minute real time average, which still puts 800 games a season (which no one in top GM has) at well under 8 hours a day of practice.

Thanks for your useless comment, by the way.


I won't even begin to discuss why a call for a source backing up a claim isn't a useless comment...

Talking about Lucifron / Vortix, are there any semi-big big tournaments in Spain apart from what ESL and DH organize from time to time? Liquipedia only lists LVP, but the last tournament in that series concludes over half a year ago.
Grovbolle
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark3805 Posts
December 20 2013 10:27 GMT
#58
On December 20 2013 18:44 Kasaraki wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2013 18:39 Grovbolle wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
The fall of LucifroN

Results for es LucifroN after 2013-11-10.

Games: 5.560% (1-17)
Matches: 0.000% (0-8)

Current Form:
      L L L L L L L L
Recent Matches:
       es LucifroN 1 – 2 kr TheStC
       es LucifroN 0 – 3 kr jjakji
       es LucifroN 0 – 3 fi elfi
       es LucifroN 0 – 2 se NaNiwa
       es LucifroN 0 – 2 kr Patience
       es LucifroN 0 – 2 de TLO
       es LucifroN 0 – 2 kr HyuN
       es LucifroN 0 – 1 kr Alicia


Filters:
+ Show Spoiler +
Opponent Race:    all
Opponent Country: all
Match Format: all
On/offline: both
Game Version: all

Stats by Aligulac. Link.

[image loading]

Oooh, that's the greatest free-fall I've seen on Aligulac. Just amazing, it's almost completely vertical, as almost all the games are 0-X losses in an offline environment.

-391 in one period. That hurt him :D
Lies, damned lies and statistics: http://aligulac.com
RayBeans
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany331 Posts
December 20 2013 11:43 GMT
#59
It is a great pick up but i don't except that Dear will train much with his new teammates. I sure hope they will do, or they will at least talk about strategy and exchange buildorders, but the language barrier is quite high, especially when Dear just about now starts to learn english. but we will see what the future holds, nevertheless a great pick up for mouz which hopefully will pay off.
eSports with friends & HSV esports e.V. - Hamburg!
Faust852
Profile Joined February 2012
Luxembourg4004 Posts
December 20 2013 12:43 GMT
#60
I heard that Lucifron will retire end of month. MaNa will be kicked as well (that why XMG.MaNa soon). Mouz will recrute more korean players now.
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
December 20 2013 12:46 GMT
#61
On December 20 2013 21:43 Faust852 wrote:
I heard that Lucifron will retire end of month. MaNa will be kicked as well (that why XMG.MaNa soon). Mouz will recrute more korean players now.


Uh, okay. You "heard"?
AdministratorBreak the chains
GumBa
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United Kingdom31935 Posts
December 20 2013 12:50 GMT
#62
I dont mind koreans everywhere I dont care about nationality the player can charm me regardless
To all the haters: you deserve to witness many, many more Serral victories, worthy of the godlike player he is.
Faust852
Profile Joined February 2012
Luxembourg4004 Posts
December 20 2013 12:50 GMT
#63
On December 20 2013 21:46 Zealously wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2013 21:43 Faust852 wrote:
I heard that Lucifron will retire end of month. MaNa will be kicked as well (that why XMG.MaNa soon). Mouz will recrute more korean players now.


Uh, okay. You "heard"?


If you don't trust me it's ok. We'll see at the end of the month but i'm pretty sure my source are ok.
SmoKim
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark10304 Posts
December 20 2013 12:58 GMT
#64
On December 20 2013 21:50 Faust852 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2013 21:46 Zealously wrote:
On December 20 2013 21:43 Faust852 wrote:
I heard that Lucifron will retire end of month. MaNa will be kicked as well (that why XMG.MaNa soon). Mouz will recrute more korean players now.


Uh, okay. You "heard"?


If you don't trust me it's ok. We'll see at the end of the month but i'm pretty sure my source are ok.


If you are right, then that would be real sad if they kept their current foreigner lineup + Dear, i mean that would easily (if not already) make them a top4 teams with Liquid, EG and Acer

But if they get more koreans then they would still be it
"LOL I have 202 supply right now (3 minutes later)..."LOL NOW I HAVE 220 SUPPLY SUP?!?!?" - Mondragon
Surth
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Germany456 Posts
December 20 2013 14:40 GMT
#65


Quietly hidden amidst all of WCS system changes, player retirements, Jaedong silvers, and other storylines of 2013 was the decline of mousesports. Having been a part of the big-three of international teams alongside Evil Geniuses and Team Liquid since the beginning of StarCraft 2, 2013


I know that historical revisionism has resulted in "Teamliquid/Evilgeniuses" as being seen as the great big foreigner clash and all, but can we talk about the fact that Dignitas, with Naniwa/Select/Show actually was a pretty scary team for a while? It irks me. :/
i believe your actions dishonour Starcraft 2 LotV cybersport!
Aeroplaneoverthesea
Profile Joined April 2012
United Kingdom1977 Posts
December 20 2013 15:23 GMT
#66
On December 20 2013 18:39 Grovbolle wrote:
The fall of LucifroN

Results for es LucifroN after 2013-11-10.

Games: 5.560% (1-17)
Matches: 0.000% (0-8)

Current Form:
      L L L L L L L L
Recent Matches:
       es LucifroN 1 – 2 kr TheStC
       es LucifroN 0 – 3 kr jjakji
       es LucifroN 0 – 3 fi elfi
       es LucifroN 0 – 2 se NaNiwa
       es LucifroN 0 – 2 kr Patience
       es LucifroN 0 – 2 de TLO
       es LucifroN 0 – 2 kr HyuN
       es LucifroN 0 – 1 kr Alicia


Filters:
+ Show Spoiler +
Opponent Race:    all
Opponent Country: all
Match Format: all
On/offline: both
Game Version: all

Stats by Aligulac. Link.

[image loading]


Lucifron was always 90% hype and 10% results anyway.

His results have never been anything to give much of a shit about, even at his absolute peak he was a top 5 foreigner at best and even that's pretty debatable.

Vortix was probably the best patch Zerg, he wasnt a bad player like JohnnyRecco but he looked far better than he ever was because of how imbalanced Zerg was at that time.

User was warned for this post
Soohyung
Profile Joined April 2012
Korea (South)116 Posts
December 20 2013 23:40 GMT
#67
Good luck to Dear though I don't really see mousesports as a fitting team for him. I understand that a lot of Koreans would like to play on foreigner teams but I just can't see how Dear fits into mouse.
이지은
neptunusfisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
2286 Posts
December 21 2013 11:35 GMT
#68
On December 21 2013 08:40 Soohyung wrote:
Good luck to Dear though I don't really see mousesports as a fitting team for him. I understand that a lot of Koreans would like to play on foreigner teams but I just can't see how Dear fits into mouse.


I agree -.-

STX died...

Bogus to MMAs team? Yey! Trap to IM? Yey! Dear to mouz? Eh? :S
maru G5L pls
artcoder
Profile Joined December 2013
Germany11 Posts
December 21 2013 13:40 GMT
#69
Nice write up! Although zou forgot the top 8 finish of HasuObs beating MVP and the (in my opinion) best PvP this year HasuObs vs. Grubby... http://sc2casts.com/cast13400-Grubby-vs-HasuObs-Best-of-3-All-in-1-video-2013-WCS-Europe-S2-Group-Stage


Hasu and HeroMarine + Vortix imho can definitly compete on korean level, but top 4 is all they could achieve. And we see with awsome players like TLO that, although very good, foreigner can't bring up the consistency required
artcoder
Profile Joined December 2013
Germany11 Posts
December 21 2013 13:41 GMT
#70
On December 21 2013 08:40 Soohyung wrote:
Good luck to Dear though I don't really see mousesports as a fitting team for him. I understand that a lot of Koreans would like to play on foreigner teams but I just can't see how Dear fits into mouse.



why is that? I think he will fit into mouz like he would into any other foreigner team. looking forward to it
Champi
Profile Joined March 2010
1422 Posts
December 21 2013 15:58 GMT
#71
Oh Dear!
Huge news, grats to both parties. im looking forward to english interviews from Dear in 2014
JKM
Profile Joined November 2011
Denmark419 Posts
December 21 2013 23:27 GMT
#72
That is a nice and understanding signing, as the opportunity showed itself! They managed to be one map-win away from top 4 in ATC season 2. This will bring more power to Mouz in team leagues, but I don't think it will make them contenders to win leagues, unless if we see the Duran brothers hit their late 2012-early 2013 stride again.

Good pick Mousesport, just don't make it a habit to pick up koreans!
1338, one upping 1337
cheerful
Profile Joined December 2012
78 Posts
December 22 2013 16:47 GMT
#73
So that means we have one more korean living in korea, practicing in korea and then playing in WCS EU? sounds about right.
Walnuts
Profile Joined March 2012
United States770 Posts
December 23 2013 00:57 GMT
#74
On December 22 2013 08:27 JKM wrote:
That is a nice and understanding signing, as the opportunity showed itself! They managed to be one map-win away from top 4 in ATC season 2. This will bring more power to Mouz in team leagues, but I don't think it will make them contenders to win leagues, unless if we see the Duran brothers hit their late 2012-early 2013 stride again.

Good pick Mousesport, just don't make it a habit to pick up koreans!

Why would Mouz ever depend on Lucifron and Vortix when they have quite possibly the best protoss in the world playing for them?
Gandalf on balance: "It's always darkest before the dawn"
XaMaXaM
Profile Joined June 2012
Germany113 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-23 01:06:23
December 23 2013 01:04 GMT
#75
pls delete
XaMaXaM
Profile Joined June 2012
Germany113 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-23 01:08:24
December 23 2013 01:06 GMT
#76
On December 20 2013 07:25 phipsL wrote:
Heromarine will be the next foreign hope... once he finishes school ...

Really I don´t know how "oldschool" you are but just one word XLORD :/

On December 21 2013 22:41 artcoder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2013 08:40 Soohyung wrote:
Good luck to Dear though I don't really see mousesports as a fitting team for him. I understand that a lot of Koreans would like to play on foreigner teams but I just can't see how Dear fits into mouse.



why is that? I think he will fit into mouz like he would into any other foreigner team. looking forward to it


In the end it will be so sad like Mouse and their CS team earlier this year and the CS is still not where Mouse wants/has to be.

On December 20 2013 21:46 Zealously wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2013 21:43 Faust852 wrote:
I heard that Lucifron will retire end of month. MaNa will be kicked as well (that why XMG.MaNa soon). Mouz will recrute more korean players now.


Uh, okay. You "heard"?

Seems legit. Why not?
broodbucket
Profile Joined July 2013
Australia963 Posts
December 23 2013 08:20 GMT
#77
Well written Wax.
Dekoth
Profile Joined March 2010
United States527 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-24 14:37:39
December 24 2013 14:32 GMT
#78
On December 20 2013 07:45 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 20 2013 07:44 JustPassingBy wrote:
I had always hoped the mouz would be the one to help the foreign scene to become competitive again funded by local sponsors because of their dominance in the local scene (like in Germany and Spain, though the latter scene is still very small), so much for my hopes.

Oh well, I still wish you all well in your future way and I hope it will work out as you planned, mouz.


The foreign scene is never going to be competitive again (was it ever?) Koreans will always dominate this game.


Well this statement could be completely true, or completely untrue at the same time. Certainly sponsorship has a ton to do with it, but that goes hand in hand with how teams present both themselves and esports. The problem isn't that koreans are naturally better, the problem is they have more infrastructure to identify and nurture talent. Simply put, until foreigner teams model the korean ones in how they operate, then yes on the whole foreigners will never be competitive. The simple fact is, results don't lie. The Korean teams get results because they demand them. I will use an easy sports comparison here.

Do you see professional sports players practicing side by side with their farm teams? No you don't. The farm teams are there for nothing more than to foster early talent. Once that talent shows promise, then they get moved to the minor leagues, they continue to grow there and eventually if they get good enough moved to the majors.

You see the Korean teams can be compared to the top tier sports leagues. They have the practice facilities, they have the coaches and they have the money because of the previous 2. As a result they work harder and longer and the players there know what is expected of them. This results in consistent performance from any player emerging from this pool. As it currently stands, at BEST the foreigners represent the minor leagues, at worst the farm leagues. Oh sure you might see someone go on a short streak here and there, but the reality is those are simply players who are ready to move up to the next level of training. If they are left there, they will stagnate (as history has proven). The reasoning is simple, the foreigner teams don't know what it takes to continue pushing someone at that level higher. Now of course it is a bit of a catch 22 for the foreigner teams to grow into a top tier team. You see, this all requires money and sponsors aren't willing to part with money unless they see results, or at least they aren't willing to part with it for long. At some point some team has to bite the bullet and make a serious investment in the facilities, coaching and players necessary to capture the kind of attention the korean teams get. Until that happens, foreigners will continue down the current path of getting rolled by the koreans outside the odd "Fluke". I should state that 6-12 months isn't an investment, that is throwing money at something and hoping to get lucky. It is going to take Years of investing and building before results are borne. Any team serious about taking on the machine that is the korean teams, realistically should plan on operating at a loss for 3-5 years minimum. There will be quite a bit of attrition in players. Most who think they have what it takes to be the best, simply don't. Why do you think so few foreigners last over in korea when they go over there? It is an incredible commitment to be the absolute best and talent alone doesn't cut it. The best sports players in the world are so because they spend more time "Productively" practicing than anyone else.
tomastaz
Profile Joined January 2013
United States976 Posts
December 24 2013 23:36 GMT
#79
Go Mouz Go Dear
No church in the wild --- @tzhang0126
EFBarbarossa
Profile Joined May 2012
19 Posts
December 25 2013 11:42 GMT
#80
Seems like a bold and risky step - yet, it wasn't. Investing in the protoss side of things, saddened me a little as I considered mouse being already pretty close to protoss perfection. So, I wished they had put the money on some terran know-how to straighten that lack of skill and furthermore build upon their new rising star HeRoMaRiNe instead of pampering the established forces, toss forces. ~just my 2 cents~
"Don't judge me, that's my thing."
Keeemy
Profile Joined November 2012
Finland7855 Posts
December 25 2013 11:52 GMT
#81
On December 25 2013 20:42 EFBarbarossa wrote:
Seems like a bold and risky step - yet, it wasn't. Investing in the protoss side of things, saddened me a little as I considered mouse being already pretty close to protoss perfection. So, I wished they had put the money on some terran know-how to straighten that lack of skill and furthermore build upon their new rising star HeRoMaRiNe instead of pampering the established forces, toss forces. ~just my 2 cents~

Mana & Hasu = protoss perfection...? MaNa hasn't accomplished anything in ages and Hasu has always been average.
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