EPTThere is No Best in the World - WCS Aftermath - Page 5
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GinDo
3327 Posts
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On November 14 2013 13:18 GinDo wrote: The Dong is the best. He just chokes at final T_T. Nobody makes final 2 as consistently as he does. And after the most recent nerf to Terran, expect a stronger Dong Domination. If he chokes at the finals, then he is not the best. Not only that, it's not even like he put up a close fight in the finals. He got wrecked by sOs, got 0-4ed by Polt and Bomber, and the only close finals was against Stardust, who he was favored against anyways. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On November 14 2013 12:09 sithvincent wrote: If Jaedong wins: 'The tyrant finally cements his best player in the world status by beating 2 time champion dear' When sOs wins: 'No best player in the world even if he beats Jaedong and Bomber because a million fans on TL cast doubts on his wins' Of course, JD hasn't won but we all know what Wax will post if JD wins... No, it's just silly to state he's the best when he had a single good run. He doesn't have prolonged dominance. He had a single tournament win, that just happened to have a very prestigious title to it. When you look at it, he won 4 matches total. Four matches is all. Stating he's the best in the world because he won 4 matches total is ridiculous. It's heavily dependent as well on who he even ended up playing and what style is most effective against what type of player. On November 14 2013 13:20 Bagration wrote: If he chokes at the finals, then he is not the best. Not only that, it's not even like he put up a close fight in the finals. He got wrecked by sOs, got 0-4ed by Polt and Bomber, and the only close finals was against Stardust, who he was favored against anyways. Entirely disagree. Getting to 2nd 5x is far better than getting 1st once and dropping out early 4 other times (generally speaking). | ||
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Qwyn
United States2781 Posts
People will STILL doubt him. But when he's racked up two more finals and maybe even a tournament win before 2014, there is no doubt that is the strongest tournament powerhouse out there. Considering my bias, Dear's play was pretty fucking kickass and I'm grudgingly excited to see how his styles develop. OK - here's my thoughts: I have NO idea how ANYONE could say that the Global Finals indicated who the best player in the world is at ALL when there was no round robin. There HAS to be a round robin of all players when they are of this caliber. Otherwise it just doesn't make any fucking sense. | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On November 14 2013 13:25 FabledIntegral wrote: Entirely disagree. Getting to 2nd 5x is far better than getting 1st once and dropping out early 4 other times (generally speaking). Yes, getting 5 silvers from 5 events attended is better than getting 1 gold from 5 events attended. However, that is not the case with sOs. He also got 2nd place in the Season 1 finals, top 4 at WCS Korea. Besides, in the end it is all about championships. We remember Boxer for his 2 OSL wins, not his 4 silver finishes. It makes him more impressive, but there is only one way to cement a legacy, and that is to win tournaments. | ||
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Qwyn
United States2781 Posts
On November 14 2013 13:32 Bagration wrote: Yes, getting 5 silvers from 5 events attended is better than getting 1 gold from 5 events attended. However, that is not the case with sOs. He also got 2nd place in the Season 1 finals, top 4 at WCS Korea. Besides, in the end it is all about championships. We remember Boxer for his 2 OSL wins, not his 4 silver finishes. It makes him more impressive, but there is only one way to cement a legacy, and that is to win tournaments. Don't reference BW. Please don't. That's just silly lol <3. Because if you touch BW, you touch the legacy of Jaedong... | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On November 14 2013 13:32 Bagration wrote: Yes, getting 5 silvers from 5 events attended is better than getting 1 gold from 5 events attended. However, that is not the case with sOs. He also got 2nd place in the Season 1 finals, top 4 at WCS Korea. Besides, in the end it is all about championships. We remember Boxer for his 2 OSL wins, not his 4 silver finishes. It makes him more impressive, but there is only one way to cement a legacy, and that is to win tournaments. Which is why I added "generally speaking" to the argument. | ||
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LockeTazeline
2390 Posts
They should have an all-star teamleague match between the attendees of BlizzCon. | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On November 14 2013 13:20 Bagration wrote: If he chokes at the finals, then he is not the best. Not only that, it's not even like he put up a close fight in the finals. He got wrecked by sOs, got 0-4ed by Polt and Bomber, and the only close finals was against Stardust, who he was favored against anyways. He is the best, because he's consistent. All these other Koreans are flukes. Taking gold, only to disappear back into the mass of faceless Korean progamers. | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On November 14 2013 13:35 Qwyn wrote: Don't reference BW. Please don't. That's just silly lol <3. Because if you touch BW, you touch the legacy of Jaedong... Jaedong is BW legend. Only a fool would try to argue against that. All I'm arguing is that Jaedong is not the best player in the world. On November 14 2013 13:47 GinDo wrote: He is the best, because he's consistent. All these other Koreans are flukes. Taking gold, only to disappear back into the mass of faceless Korean progamers. No, all those other Koreans are Champions. | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On November 14 2013 13:55 Bagration wrote: Jaedong is BW legend. Only a fool would try to argue against that. All I'm arguing is that Jaedong is not the best player in the world. Out of all the non-best SC2 players he's the best one yet. | ||
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sithvincent
24 Posts
On November 14 2013 13:56 GinDo wrote: Out of all the non-best SC2 players he's the best one yet. I think on this we can agree. The best player out of the non-championship class players out there. | ||
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thepuppyassassin
900 Posts
On that note.., MVP for first Bonjwa of SC2. | ||
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MonkSEA
Australia1227 Posts
On November 14 2013 13:25 FabledIntegral wrote: No, it's just silly to state he's the best when he had a single good run. He doesn't have prolonged dominance. He had a single tournament win, that just happened to have a very prestigious title to it. When you look at it, he won 4 matches total. Four matches is all. Stating he's the best in the world because he won 4 matches total is ridiculous. It's heavily dependent as well on who he even ended up playing and what style is most effective against what type of player. Entirely disagree. Getting to 2nd 5x is far better than getting 1st once and dropping out early 4 other times (generally speaking). Just pointing out, to qualify for the finals there was a lot more than 4 matches played. The whole year was the qualifier for that event. | ||
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KnowNothing
69 Posts
I wonder why people find the results so shocking. People seem to be way off on their evaluation of so many players: -Bomber isn't nearly as strong a player as people say. Forget about him. -Soulkey's playstyle has always made him consistently good but not #1 -Innovation is off-form, but will bounce back soon, still, he won't be clear #1 anytime soon -Duckdeok is an opportunist. He just takes whatever shot he's got, his control is good and he's always going to be dangerous. -JD is finally getting it, just has some psychological barriers to get through -Dear is the best player in the world, which is exactly why he doesn't feel comfortable when someone is straight up outplaying him like JD did. -Maru is overrated, but he obviously will get better -sOs won because of the brackets. R1. He has strong PvP, so he beat Hero. R2. Polt can't handle these tournaments. R3: Bomber overrated. R4. Jaedong choking. -The players I didn't mention had absolutely no chance. Also, toss is strong right now, whether its just the players or the race itself I can't say. (This coming from a protoss fan) | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On November 14 2013 15:34 KnowNothing wrote: So, I predicted sOs to win the tournament, and not because he's the best player, because I LOOKED AT THE BRACKETS individually and worked it out, good work Rotterdam. I wonder why people find the results so shocking. People seem to be way off on their evaluation of so many players: -Bomber isn't nearly as strong a player as people say. Forget about him. -Soulkey's playstyle has always made him consistently good but not #1 -Innovation is off-form, but will bounce back soon, still, he won't be clear #1 anytime soon -Duckdeok is an opportunist. He just takes whatever shot he's got, his control is good and he's always going to be dangerous. -JD is finally getting it, just has some psychological barriers to get through -Dear is the best player in the world, which is exactly why he doesn't feel comfortable when someone is straight up outplaying him like JD did. -Maru is overrated, but he obviously will get better -sOs won because of the brackets. R1. He has strong PvP, so he beat Hero. R2. Polt can't handle these tournaments. R3: Bomber overrated. R4. Jaedong choking. -The players I didn't mention had absolutely no chance. Also, toss is strong right now, whether its just the players or the race itself I can't say. (This coming from a protoss fan) Well i kinda agree, but dear isnt the bets player in the world, he is overrated as fuck  | ||
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Radicalness
United States271 Posts
Polt was the only player to win back-to-back regional championships, won three total championships in 2013, and has insane win percentages, but struggled on the stages of the biggest tournaments. INnoVation looked like he was the most dominating player of 2013 overall and finished 2nd in WCS points despite playing in the hardest region, but he's fallen off greatly near the end of the year. Dear was the only player to win a regional championship and then go on to win a season finals but he was non-existant before that and couldn't pull through in the Global Finals. sOs may be the most innovative and unpredictable player and won the biggest tournament of the year, the Global Finals, but that was his only championship win. Soulkey finished as the No. 1 player in the world in points despite playing in the hardest region and not playing in any outside tournaments — a heck of an accomplishment but the championship wins just don't add up. Jaedong was probably the most consistent player in 2013 but he doesn't even have one championship win. Sorry guys, 2013 just doesn't have a clear No. 1 player in the world...but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's our nature to want to crown someone the best but personally, I like this competitiveness. Different players have been the best at different times this year. | ||
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shadymmj
1906 Posts
On November 14 2013 11:49 awesomoecalypse wrote: Sure, they might win in the playoffs and win the championship, but unless they were also hands down the most dominant regular season team, one could argue that there's still ambiguity. Of course, one could argue that the entire point of basically turning all the major tournaments into part of one massive supertournament to settle the best of the best would be to eliminate this ambiguity. It really comes down to how much you buy into the idea of a playoff system being a valid way to settle the best in a given sport. IME, most Americans really do place most of the value on winning the "championship". Whereas Europeans are more likely to place more emphasis on the overall body of work. You can't deny that BW had consistency especially in the recent years. When Bisu beat Savior, it was considered an upset. But then Bisu took 2 more titles after that (forgive my shitty memory). Bisu was no lucky rookie, he became arguably the #1 protoss of all time. Then JD's reign began, no further elaboration needed. Flash began to take over from 2009, with 2010 being the year of his absolute domination. A few upsets in between with Hydra and Fantasy, also very good players in their own right, having some victories. Then jangbi won the last 2 in a row. So what you see here is a general trend. Winners do not typically fade out of the picture. Still, there is some space for upsets, enough to keep it exciting, yet there are usually overwhelming favourites, and for good reason. Unless it's JvF. JvF. | ||
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Green_25
Great Britain696 Posts
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