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On November 15 2013 05:51 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 03:35 Trowa127 wrote:
People crying about MLG, guess what? You can't make money out of hosting Starcraft 2 tournaments. You think you are entitled to MLG throwing money down the drain just to entertain you? Uhm, the whole point of MLG is to entertain people...? If they stop supporting the stuff I enjoy, I stop supporting them. Easy as that. Do they care about that? Probably not, they evaluated the situation and came to the conclusion that it does not generate enough revenue/viewers when they produce a SC2 tournament in the current situation. This business decision and the the icy way with which it was not communicated did burn some bridges with the SC2 community, though, which may or may not hurt them in the future. We'll see.
The whole point of MLG isn't to entertain people, its to make money. They aren't doing this out of the goodness of their own heart. They have been supporting SC2 for a long time, you guys act like they did one failed SC2 tournament and decided to never do one again - MLG tried a lot of things to make it work. There is no money in SC2, its not a popular game and it isn't accessible to casual gamers - I'm surprised the failure of so many high profile tournaments to break even (IPL lol, so many fanboys thought that was going to go well didn't they - and all that happened was a 6 figure loss per event) hasn't made people wake up to that fact. If the SC2 community wanted MLG to host SC2 tournaments then they would have paid for them and not lost the plot when they put a PPV option in (if anyone remembers *that* thread).
To the guy talking about ESL - they get away with it because they pay people years late (edited). The only people who can run a decent tournament are doing it because they own the game (Blizzard) or have a ton of money to spend on advertising (Red Bull).
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On November 15 2013 22:56 Trowa127 wrote:
To the guy talking about ESL - they get away with it because they don't pay people. Simple as.
What on earth are you talking about?
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On November 15 2013 22:56 Trowa127 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 05:51 ACrow wrote:On November 15 2013 03:35 Trowa127 wrote:
People crying about MLG, guess what? You can't make money out of hosting Starcraft 2 tournaments. You think you are entitled to MLG throwing money down the drain just to entertain you? Uhm, the whole point of MLG is to entertain people...? If they stop supporting the stuff I enjoy, I stop supporting them. Easy as that. Do they care about that? Probably not, they evaluated the situation and came to the conclusion that it does not generate enough revenue/viewers when they produce a SC2 tournament in the current situation. This business decision and the the icy way with which it was not communicated did burn some bridges with the SC2 community, though, which may or may not hurt them in the future. We'll see. The whole point of MLG isn't to entertain people, its to make money. They aren't doing this out of the goodness of their own heart. They have been supporting SC2 for a long time, you guys act like they did one failed SC2 tournament and decided to never do one again - MLG tried a lot of things to make it work. There is no money in SC2, its not a popular game and it isn't accessible to casual gamers - I'm surprised the failure of so many high profile tournaments to break even (IPL lol, so many fanboys thought that was going to go well didn't they - and all that happened was a 6 figure loss per event) hasn't made people wake up to that fact. If the SC2 community wanted MLG to host SC2 tournaments then they would have paid for them and not lost the plot when they put a PPV option in (if anyone remembers *that* thread). To the guy talking about ESL - they get away with it because they don't pay people. Simple as. The only people who can run a decent tournament are doing it because they own the game (Blizzard) or have a ton of money to spend on advertising (Red Bull).
Dreamhack does good Starcraft tournaments, Homestroy cup is fun to watch as well. So other tournaments besides Blizzards own does well
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On November 15 2013 22:56 Trowa127 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 05:51 ACrow wrote:On November 15 2013 03:35 Trowa127 wrote:
People crying about MLG, guess what? You can't make money out of hosting Starcraft 2 tournaments. You think you are entitled to MLG throwing money down the drain just to entertain you? Uhm, the whole point of MLG is to entertain people...? If they stop supporting the stuff I enjoy, I stop supporting them. Easy as that. Do they care about that? Probably not, they evaluated the situation and came to the conclusion that it does not generate enough revenue/viewers when they produce a SC2 tournament in the current situation. This business decision and the the icy way with which it was not communicated did burn some bridges with the SC2 community, though, which may or may not hurt them in the future. We'll see. The whole point of MLG isn't to entertain people, its to make money. They aren't doing this out of the goodness of their own heart. They have been supporting SC2 for a long time, you guys act like they did one failed SC2 tournament and decided to never do one again - MLG tried a lot of things to make it work. There is no money in SC2, its not a popular game and it isn't accessible to casual gamers - I'm surprised the failure of so many high profile tournaments to break even (IPL lol, so many fanboys thought that was going to go well didn't they - and all that happened was a 6 figure loss per event) hasn't made people wake up to that fact. If the SC2 community wanted MLG to host SC2 tournaments then they would have paid for them and not lost the plot when they put a PPV option in (if anyone remembers *that* thread). To the guy talking about ESL - they get away with it because they don't pay people. Simple as. The only people who can run a decent tournament are doing it because they own the game (Blizzard) or have a ton of money to spend on advertising (Red Bull).
It would be cool if people sometimes didn't pull things out of their ass to make it seem like they have any insight into the situation.
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Hopefully someone will pick him up. He's such a great caster.
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On November 15 2013 22:56 Trowa127 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 05:51 ACrow wrote:On November 15 2013 03:35 Trowa127 wrote:
People crying about MLG, guess what? You can't make money out of hosting Starcraft 2 tournaments. You think you are entitled to MLG throwing money down the drain just to entertain you? Uhm, the whole point of MLG is to entertain people...? If they stop supporting the stuff I enjoy, I stop supporting them. Easy as that. Do they care about that? Probably not, they evaluated the situation and came to the conclusion that it does not generate enough revenue/viewers when they produce a SC2 tournament in the current situation. This business decision and the the icy way with which it was not communicated did burn some bridges with the SC2 community, though, which may or may not hurt them in the future. We'll see. The whole point of MLG isn't to entertain people, its to make money. They aren't doing this out of the goodness of their own heart. They have been supporting SC2 for a long time, you guys act like they did one failed SC2 tournament and decided to never do one again - MLG tried a lot of things to make it work. There is no money in SC2, its not a popular game and it isn't accessible to casual gamers - I'm surprised the failure of so many high profile tournaments to break even (IPL lol, so many fanboys thought that was going to go well didn't they - and all that happened was a 6 figure loss per event) hasn't made people wake up to that fact. If the SC2 community wanted MLG to host SC2 tournaments then they would have paid for them and not lost the plot when they put a PPV option in (if anyone remembers *that* thread). To the guy talking about ESL - they get away with it because they don't pay people. Simple as. The only people who can run a decent tournament are doing it because they own the game (Blizzard) or have a ton of money to spend on advertising (Red Bull).
You are wrong on so many levels.
First of all, there were many factors involved in MLG pulling out from SC2, and low viewership definitely wasn't one of the bigger ones - MLG was one of the tournaments that got the most viewers, yet other tournaments like HSC, ASUS ROG, DH, IEM (and ESL's many other tournaments) etc seem to be doing fine. It was a variety of factors, which may include their business model, the many other events competing for air time, the bigger potential profit from Dota 2, overspending (they did fly in so many Koreans on their own money...etc).
As a casual gamer myself, I can assure you that SC2 is tons more viewer friendly than any MOBA. It does have a much smaller playerbase, but that's because a) RTS is not a popular genre; b) the game is frikkin expensive compared to any other PC title except CoD.
IPL had many other events apart from SC2. It wasn't just SC2 that got cancelled - the LoL event also got cancelled, and before you say that SC2 was going to be the main event, you are wrong. The fault definitely didn't lie with SC2's performance. IGN decided to change what they were doing, simple as - the people who took that decision, very likely, have absolutely no idea of the difference between SC2 and LoL or Call of Duty...
PPV is absolutely silly, if all the other content is free. and there is A LOT of content out there. Most people won't pay to watch an MLG event if a weekend later they can just watch a bigger and better DreamHack instead.
ESL had a cashflow problem a few years back, mainly due to sponsors not paying out on time. Also, just so you know, ESL is massive. They have tournaments for hundreds of games, and not just IEM. They took long to pay out tournaments for all titles. They cleaned up their act these past couple of years though, so you're completely incorrect.
"The only people who can run a tournament"? Do you really see any shortage of major or minor tournaments? We're in mid-November and there are at least NINE premier events to go for the rest of 2013:
*HomeStory Cup
*Red Bull Battlegrounds
 reamHack
*IEM Singapore
*WCG 2013
*ASUS ROG Germany 2013
*Hot6ix Cup
*GSTL
*Acer TeamStory Cup
And that's not to mention ProLeague being announced soon, the televised league in Taiwan and the hundreds of smaller tournaments like the Dailymotion Cup organised by Millenium, or TotalBiscuit's Shoutcraft America, the Fragbite Masters ($24k event), EPS in Germany, EG's SC2L, the dozens of well-funded tournaments in China...
Do you even follow Starcraft 2?
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Canada16217 Posts
On November 15 2013 22:56 Trowa127 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 05:51 ACrow wrote:On November 15 2013 03:35 Trowa127 wrote:
People crying about MLG, guess what? You can't make money out of hosting Starcraft 2 tournaments. You think you are entitled to MLG throwing money down the drain just to entertain you? Uhm, the whole point of MLG is to entertain people...? If they stop supporting the stuff I enjoy, I stop supporting them. Easy as that. Do they care about that? Probably not, they evaluated the situation and came to the conclusion that it does not generate enough revenue/viewers when they produce a SC2 tournament in the current situation. This business decision and the the icy way with which it was not communicated did burn some bridges with the SC2 community, though, which may or may not hurt them in the future. We'll see. The whole point of MLG isn't to entertain people, its to make money. They aren't doing this out of the goodness of their own heart. They have been supporting SC2 for a long time, you guys act like they did one failed SC2 tournament and decided to never do one again - MLG tried a lot of things to make it work. There is no money in SC2, its not a popular game and it isn't accessible to casual gamers - I'm surprised the failure of so many high profile tournaments to break even (IPL lol, so many fanboys thought that was going to go well didn't they - and all that happened was a 6 figure loss per event) hasn't made people wake up to that fact. If the SC2 community wanted MLG to host SC2 tournaments then they would have paid for them and not lost the plot when they put a PPV option in (if anyone remembers *that* thread). To the guy talking about ESL - they get away with it because they don't pay people. Simple as. The only people who can run a decent tournament are doing it because they own the game (Blizzard) or have a ton of money to spend on advertising (Red Bull).
you definitely don't get it.
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On November 16 2013 04:14 mikkmagro wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 22:56 Trowa127 wrote:On November 15 2013 05:51 ACrow wrote:On November 15 2013 03:35 Trowa127 wrote:
People crying about MLG, guess what? You can't make money out of hosting Starcraft 2 tournaments. You think you are entitled to MLG throwing money down the drain just to entertain you? Uhm, the whole point of MLG is to entertain people...? If they stop supporting the stuff I enjoy, I stop supporting them. Easy as that. Do they care about that? Probably not, they evaluated the situation and came to the conclusion that it does not generate enough revenue/viewers when they produce a SC2 tournament in the current situation. This business decision and the the icy way with which it was not communicated did burn some bridges with the SC2 community, though, which may or may not hurt them in the future. We'll see. The whole point of MLG isn't to entertain people, its to make money. They aren't doing this out of the goodness of their own heart. They have been supporting SC2 for a long time, you guys act like they did one failed SC2 tournament and decided to never do one again - MLG tried a lot of things to make it work. There is no money in SC2, its not a popular game and it isn't accessible to casual gamers - I'm surprised the failure of so many high profile tournaments to break even (IPL lol, so many fanboys thought that was going to go well didn't they - and all that happened was a 6 figure loss per event) hasn't made people wake up to that fact. If the SC2 community wanted MLG to host SC2 tournaments then they would have paid for them and not lost the plot when they put a PPV option in (if anyone remembers *that* thread). To the guy talking about ESL - they get away with it because they don't pay people. Simple as. The only people who can run a decent tournament are doing it because they own the game (Blizzard) or have a ton of money to spend on advertising (Red Bull). You are wrong on so many levels. First of all, there were many factors involved in MLG pulling out from SC2, and low viewership definitely wasn't one of the bigger ones - MLG was one of the tournaments that got the most viewers, yet other tournaments like HSC, ASUS ROG, DH, IEM (and ESL's many other tournaments) etc seem to be doing fine. It was a variety of factors, which may include their business model, the many other events competing for air time, the bigger potential profit from Dota 2, overspending (they did fly in so many Koreans on their own money...etc). As a casual gamer myself, I can assure you that SC2 is tons more viewer friendly than any MOBA. It does have a much smaller playerbase, but that's because a) RTS is not a popular genre; b) the game is frikkin expensive compared to any other PC title except CoD. IPL had many other events apart from SC2. It wasn't just SC2 that got cancelled - the LoL event also got cancelled, and before you say that SC2 was going to be the main event, you are wrong. The fault definitely didn't lie with SC2's performance. IGN decided to change what they were doing, simple as - the people who took that decision, very likely, have absolutely no idea of the difference between SC2 and LoL or Call of Duty... PPV is absolutely silly, if all the other content is free. and there is A LOT of content out there. Most people won't pay to watch an MLG event if a weekend later they can just watch a bigger and better DreamHack instead. ESL had a cashflow problem a few years back, mainly due to sponsors not paying out on time. Also, just so you know, ESL is massive. They have tournaments for hundreds of games, and not just IEM. They took long to pay out tournaments for all titles. They cleaned up their act these past couple of years though, so you're completely incorrect. "The only people who can run a tournament"? Do you really see any shortage of major or minor tournaments? We're in mid-November and there are at least NINE premier events to go for the rest of 2013: *HomeStory Cup *Red Bull Battlegrounds reamHack *IEM Singapore *WCG 2013 *ASUS ROG Germany 2013 *Hot6ix Cup *GSTL *Acer TeamStory Cup And that's not to mention ProLeague being announced soon, the televised league in Taiwan and the hundreds of smaller tournaments like the Dailymotion Cup organised by Millenium, or TotalBiscuit's Shoutcraft America, the Fragbite Masters ($24k event), EPS in Germany, EG's SC2L, the dozens of well-funded tournaments in China... Do you even follow Starcraft 2?
The first IPL lost six figures and didn't feature League of Legends, they were losing money from day one! How can you say it wasn't SC2 when it started with just SC2 and was still losing a ton of money at that time? Madness! Secondly, the viewer numbers speak for themselves - you can't call a game that gets 50k max viewers for a tournament popular, it just isn't. I love SC2 but people have to accept reality, the only way is down from here - call me an idiot if you want, but we'll see where SC2 is compared to other games in a few years and I doubt its going to making any companies anything. The communities attitude to tournament organisers just shows this.
ESL clarification - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=379012. I've edited my original post to clarify that they do pay, just years late - real professional and a great way to promote the scene.
Other tournaments - Europe is a different case. Dreamhack has been around since 94 and gets a lot of help from volunteers who aren't paid, it wasn't 'made' by SC2 and is a very poor example now as it doesn't even rely on SC2 very much, and it will continue to thrive when SC2 is dead and gone. Totalbiscuit made his money elsewhere (something he admits). EG are a really well run organisation, just like Teamliquid and I never denied that. However, what I'm saying is look at the companies whose bread and butter is tournament organisation with (at least at one point in history) primary focus on SC2 - MLG, IPL, NASL - and see the trend. You'd have to be out of your mind to spend real money on an SC2 tournament if you aren't a team, company selling another product with money to burn, the games owner or an individual personality. No 'tournament organizer' in their right minds would touch SC2.
Hope that clarifies my comments. Not talking down SC2, just makes me sad to see people slating a company who threw a lot of money down the drain to entertain them.
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On November 15 2013 22:42 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 18:01 digmouse wrote:On November 15 2013 07:38 illusiongamer wrote:On November 15 2013 07:03 Dodgin wrote:yah except DH:W and IEM are running at the same time this month oh and WCG ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bvegtgB.jpg) did you realize that DH and IEM happen at different hours? I'm not sure about WCG, I guess that Activision-Blizzard change the rules after the MLG-RedBull incident? If my memories are correct MLG didn't even register for a tournament that weekend in the first place. There is no rule, MLG opted to not have SC2 at the even, since Redbull was running one the same day.
From the WCS 2014 thread:
**Note that meeting the requirements listed above does not automatically grant you partner status -- we'd like to work with you directly to ensure your event fits well into the schedule and doesn't overlap other partner events.
no rule you say?
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On November 21 2013 08:49 illusiongamer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 22:42 Plansix wrote:On November 15 2013 18:01 digmouse wrote:On November 15 2013 07:38 illusiongamer wrote:On November 15 2013 07:03 Dodgin wrote:yah except DH:W and IEM are running at the same time this month oh and WCG did you realize that DH and IEM happen at different hours? I'm not sure about WCG, I guess that Activision-Blizzard change the rules after the MLG-RedBull incident? If my memories are correct MLG didn't even register for a tournament that weekend in the first place. There is no rule, MLG opted to not have SC2 at the even, since Redbull was running one the same day. From the WCS 2014 thread: **Note that meeting the requirements listed above does not automatically grant you partner status -- we'd like to work with you directly to ensure your event fits well into the schedule and doesn't overlap other partner events. no rule you say?
Thats for WCS, not for MLG and Redbull broadcasting in the same weekend. There has always been rules against broadcasting over WCS.
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On November 21 2013 08:57 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 08:49 illusiongamer wrote:On November 15 2013 22:42 Plansix wrote:On November 15 2013 18:01 digmouse wrote:On November 15 2013 07:38 illusiongamer wrote:On November 15 2013 07:03 Dodgin wrote:yah except DH:W and IEM are running at the same time this month oh and WCG did you realize that DH and IEM happen at different hours? I'm not sure about WCG, I guess that Activision-Blizzard change the rules after the MLG-RedBull incident? If my memories are correct MLG didn't even register for a tournament that weekend in the first place. There is no rule, MLG opted to not have SC2 at the even, since Redbull was running one the same day. From the WCS 2014 thread: **Note that meeting the requirements listed above does not automatically grant you partner status -- we'd like to work with you directly to ensure your event fits well into the schedule and doesn't overlap other partner events. no rule you say? Thats for WCS, not for MLG and Redbull broadcasting in the same weekend. There has always been rules against broadcasting over WCS.
worst excuse I have read
"we'd like to work with you directly to ensure your event fits well into the schedule and doesn't overlap other PARTNER EVENTS"
I do not see WCS exclusive anywhere
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On November 21 2013 09:19 illusiongamer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2013 08:57 Plansix wrote:On November 21 2013 08:49 illusiongamer wrote:On November 15 2013 22:42 Plansix wrote:On November 15 2013 18:01 digmouse wrote:On November 15 2013 07:38 illusiongamer wrote:On November 15 2013 07:03 Dodgin wrote:yah except DH:W and IEM are running at the same time this month oh and WCG did you realize that DH and IEM happen at different hours? I'm not sure about WCG, I guess that Activision-Blizzard change the rules after the MLG-RedBull incident? If my memories are correct MLG didn't even register for a tournament that weekend in the first place. There is no rule, MLG opted to not have SC2 at the even, since Redbull was running one the same day. From the WCS 2014 thread: **Note that meeting the requirements listed above does not automatically grant you partner status -- we'd like to work with you directly to ensure your event fits well into the schedule and doesn't overlap other partner events. no rule you say? Thats for WCS, not for MLG and Redbull broadcasting in the same weekend. There has always been rules against broadcasting over WCS. worst excuse I have read "we'd like to work with you directly to ensure your event fits well into the schedule and doesn't overlap other PARTNER EVENTS" I do not see WCS exclusive anywhere
And that is for 2014 and and the information for that was released today. My post was made several days ago and was referencing something that happened months ago. One has nothing to do with the other.
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EPT
