First seen on Alloy esports, Axeltoss and Axslav will be leaving MLG as their in-house SC2 casting team.
It's now been five months since MLG had WCS, and with SC2 being absent at their next event in Columbus next week speculation remains about the organization's involvement in Starcraft in the future. For the past several months Axeltoss and Axslav have stayed on as casters, providing coverage for a host of online events through the months and even casting the non-main stage games of the recent IEM New York.
Axeltoss has gone on record in the above article saying he will remain in esports, and Axslav likely has a similar perspective though he has not said for sure. With the WCS 2014 plans yet unannounced a lot is still up in the air for the next year of SC2 and we will have to wait to see what MLG decides in the coming months regarding their circuit.
On November 13 2013 19:13 Schelim wrote: good decision, makes me happy
Axeltoss might not be my favorite caster but i felt really bad for both of them everytime i saw them cast something for that awful organization.
yeah, downright sucks to have a job
kinda sucks to have a "job" at an organization that doesn't give a fuck about the game you're casting and you're forced to do all kinds of weird shows and best-ofs and shit like that that nobody watches or cares about. and whenever MLG do something for sc2 that people actually want to watch (e.g. WCS qualifiers) you have to apologize for their stupid mistakes for hours on end even though it's not your fault. they were just wasting their time and talent and probably putting a lot of psychological pressure upon themselves with MLG.
i'm sure they'll be able to get gigs with organizations that care about sc2 and that people might actually watch.
On November 13 2013 19:13 Schelim wrote: good decision, makes me happy
Axeltoss might not be my favorite caster but i felt really bad for both of them everytime i saw them cast something for that awful organization.
yeah, downright sucks to have a job
kinda sucks to have a "job" at an organization that doesn't give a fuck about the game you're casting and you're forced to do all kinds of weird shows and best-ofs and shit like that that nobody watches or cares about. and whenever MLG do something for sc2 that people actually want to watch (e.g. WCS qualifiers) you have to apologize for their stupid mistakes for hours on end even though it's not your fault. they were just wasting their time and talent and probably putting a lot of psychological pressure upon themselves with MLG.
i'm sure they'll be able to get gigs with organizations that care about sc2 and that people might actually watch.
On November 13 2013 19:13 Schelim wrote: good decision, makes me happy
Axeltoss might not be my favorite caster but i felt really bad for both of them everytime i saw them cast something for that awful organization.
yeah, downright sucks to have a job
kinda sucks to have a "job" at an organization that doesn't give a fuck about the game you're casting and you're forced to do all kinds of weird shows and best-ofs and shit like that that nobody watches or cares about. and whenever MLG do something for sc2 that people actually want to watch (e.g. WCS qualifiers) you have to apologize for their stupid mistakes for hours on end even though it's not your fault. they were just wasting their time and talent and probably putting a lot of psychological pressure upon themselves with MLG.
i'm sure they'll be able to get gigs with organizations that care about sc2 and that people might actually watch.
On November 13 2013 19:13 Schelim wrote: good decision, makes me happy
Axeltoss might not be my favorite caster but i felt really bad for both of them everytime i saw them cast something for that awful organization.
yeah, downright sucks to have a job
kinda sucks to have a "job" at an organization that doesn't give a fuck about the game you're casting and you're forced to do all kinds of weird shows and best-ofs and shit like that that nobody watches or cares about. and whenever MLG do something for sc2 that people actually want to watch (e.g. WCS qualifiers) you have to apologize for their stupid mistakes for hours on end even though it's not your fault. they were just wasting their time and talent and probably putting a lot of psychological pressure upon themselves with MLG.
i'm sure they'll be able to get gigs with organizations that care about sc2 and that people might actually watch.
The MLG bitterness is utterly pathetic.
I think he's totally right. Talent wasted.
Of course if MLG actually is dropping SC2, then Axeltoss and Axslav are better off searching for employment somewhere else.
But the endless whining and emo shit about how "MLG never cared about us" or how they were only in it for the "money" (however the hell that works...) is mind-numbing. It's like watching a dumped girlfriend bitch on Facebook.
MLG was doing a lot of fun community stuff lately. I guess you can't really pay two guys and a studio off of that though.
I so hope we're going to get the story behind all those streams they did after MLG ditched SC2.
Don't get me wrong, they were indeed lots of fun. But to me it always seemed like MLG still had two SC2 casters (or even parts of a production team) and a studio on contract and didn't know what to do with it. So MLG gave the guys the keys, said "Do whatever the hell you want, as long as you get viewers" and never looked back. And so they did. And it was always fun.
But at times it felt like such a weird situation, too. The whole episode with the "water" bottle felt so much like they were saying "Yep, we're gonna get fired, so what're they gonna do? Fire us? Hah!" before the broadcast..
MLG was doing a lot of fun community stuff lately. I guess you can't really pay two guys and a studio off of that though.
I so hope we're going to get the story behind all those streams they did after MLG ditched SC2.
Don't get me wrong, they were indeed lots of fun. But to me it always seemed like MLG still had two SC2 casters (or even parts of a production team) and a studio on contract and didn't know what to do with it. So MLG gave the guys the keys, said "Do whatever the hell you want, as long as you get viewers" and never looked back. And so they did. And it was always fun.
But at times it felt like such a weird situation, too. The whole episode with the "water" bottle felt so much like they were saying "Yep, we're gonna get fired, so what're they gonna do? Fire us? Hah!" before the broadcast..
Uh...the whole "water" bottle thing was explicitly stated on air as them playing games drunk. That was the whole point of that broadcast...
They were just being extremely coy about what they were drinking.
On November 13 2013 19:41 diwurn wrote: That's it for MLG and SC2 I guess... Hope Axeltoss and Axslav will find a new home!
yep. I wouldn´t expect MLG to pick up SC2 again unless it gets an unforseen boost in fanbase.
I don't think its about the fanbase/viewer numbers. Sure, Dota2 probably gets more viewers, but what Dota 2 has to offer is something that benefits MLG as well. For example, ticket sales to increase prize pools (like with this upcoming tournament), which makes the tournament even bigger.
Wasn't there some discussion awhile back about MLG having to pay to Blizzard for hosting tournaments?
On November 13 2013 19:13 Schelim wrote: good decision, makes me happy
Axeltoss might not be my favorite caster but i felt really bad for both of them everytime i saw them cast something for that awful organization.
yeah, downright sucks to have a job
kinda sucks to have a "job" at an organization that doesn't give a fuck about the game you're casting and you're forced to do all kinds of weird shows and best-ofs and shit like that that nobody watches or cares about. and whenever MLG do something for sc2 that people actually want to watch (e.g. WCS qualifiers) you have to apologize for their stupid mistakes for hours on end even though it's not your fault. they were just wasting their time and talent and probably putting a lot of psychological pressure upon themselves with MLG.
i'm sure they'll be able to get gigs with organizations that care about sc2 and that people might actually watch.
The MLG bitterness is utterly pathetic.
I think he's totally right. Talent wasted.
Of course if MLG actually is dropping SC2, then Axeltoss and Axslav are better off searching for employment somewhere else.
But the endless whining and emo shit about how "MLG never cared about us" or how they were only in it for the "money" (however the hell that works...) is mind-numbing. It's like watching a dumped girlfriend bitch on Facebook.
it's not that they never cared. MLG in 2011 was awesome. but they stopped caring quite a while ago. caring about money is fine, they're a for profit organization. but if you're gonna half-ass everything like they have been doing for the last year or so, you might as well just stop doing it completely. i guess i'm so mad cause they fucked up the beginning of WCS AM this year instead of just telling Blizzard straight up that they don't give a fuck and Blizz should get NASL to do it.
On November 13 2013 18:39 Doublemint wrote: I hope they both get picked up - so much passion despite MLG being quite negligent of SC2 and its awesomeness.
At least recently. MLG has dropped games in the past to pick'em up again later. Maybe they felt like with such a tight wcs schedule and them not being part of it anymore it'd be hard to be relevant. Maybe they are having financial issues (1 less event this year afterall) and paying blizz to run starcraft was just too expensive. Either way I'd wait until next year to see what mlgs plans for sc2 are, cause I feel like they are not 100% done with the game.
Anyways really sucks to hear, as always when people loose their jobs in esports Hope both of them can continue on doing this.
On November 13 2013 19:41 diwurn wrote: That's it for MLG and SC2 I guess... Hope Axeltoss and Axslav will find a new home!
yep. I wouldn´t expect MLG to pick up SC2 again unless it gets an unforseen boost in fanbase.
I don't think its about the fanbase/viewer numbers. Sure, Dota2 probably gets more viewers, but what Dota 2 has to offer is something that benefits MLG as well. For example, ticket sales to increase prize pools (like with this upcoming tournament), which makes the tournament even bigger.
Wasn't there some discussion awhile back about MLG having to pay to Blizzard for hosting tournaments?
Yes, though that has been refuted by MLG, if I remember correctly.
Then again, MLG said they initially cancelled SC2 from one of their events because Red Bull already signed up an event for that date, and you can't have 2 SC2 events at the same weekend. And the Red Bulle vent turned out to be an 8 player invitational. Soo.. Blizzard is completely fine with giving up a huge MLG tournament for an 8 player invitational, just because the latter was there first? And MLG is completely fine with that, too? Something just didn't add up, and it seemed like MLG used that as a convenient excuse (whether true or not) to ditch SC2 as a whole.
On November 13 2013 19:41 diwurn wrote: That's it for MLG and SC2 I guess... Hope Axeltoss and Axslav will find a new home!
yep. I wouldn´t expect MLG to pick up SC2 again unless it gets an unforseen boost in fanbase.
I don't think its about the fanbase/viewer numbers. Sure, Dota2 probably gets more viewers, but what Dota 2 has to offer is something that benefits MLG as well. For example, ticket sales to increase prize pools (like with this upcoming tournament), which makes the tournament even bigger.
Wasn't there some discussion awhile back about MLG having to pay to Blizzard for hosting tournaments?
Really hope this means a possible return to professional play for axslav, I know he played a few qualifiers recently, maybe they knew about this for a while.
On November 13 2013 19:41 diwurn wrote: That's it for MLG and SC2 I guess... Hope Axeltoss and Axslav will find a new home!
yep. I wouldn´t expect MLG to pick up SC2 again unless it gets an unforseen boost in fanbase.
I don't think its about the fanbase/viewer numbers. Sure, Dota2 probably gets more viewers, but what Dota 2 has to offer is something that benefits MLG as well. For example, ticket sales to increase prize pools (like with this upcoming tournament), which makes the tournament even bigger.
Wasn't there some discussion awhile back about MLG having to pay to Blizzard for hosting tournaments?
Yes, though that has been refuted by MLG, if I remember correctly.
Then again, MLG said they initially cancelled SC2 from one of their events because Red Bull already signed up an event for that date, and you can't have 2 SC2 events at the same weekend. And the Red Bulle vent turned out to be an 8 player invitational. Soo.. Blizzard is completely fine with giving up a huge MLG tournament for an 8 player invitational, just because the latter was there first? And MLG is completely fine with that, too? Something just didn't add up, and it seemed like MLG used that as a convenient excuse (whether true or not) to ditch SC2 as a whole.
The impression I got was that Blizzard doesn't play favorites and doesn't try to make events move to get out of each others way. They don't want to take the place of events communicating with each other.
I said this before in a Dota 2 thread. MLG might come back to SC2, but right now they are taking a break. The community is doing the same. The Dota 2 community, though critical, has been overwhelmingly excited about the first big LAN in NA since TI3 and MLG is really doubling down on that. Both MLG and the SC2 community need to decide if they want to be together and not take the other for granted. I think a clean slate is best for both sides and MLG can see where they fit in after Blizzard announced WCS 2014.
On November 13 2013 19:41 diwurn wrote: That's it for MLG and SC2 I guess... Hope Axeltoss and Axslav will find a new home!
yep. I wouldn´t expect MLG to pick up SC2 again unless it gets an unforseen boost in fanbase.
I don't think its about the fanbase/viewer numbers. Sure, Dota2 probably gets more viewers, but what Dota 2 has to offer is something that benefits MLG as well. For example, ticket sales to increase prize pools (like with this upcoming tournament), which makes the tournament even bigger.
Wasn't there some discussion awhile back about MLG having to pay to Blizzard for hosting tournaments?
Yes, though that has been refuted by MLG, if I remember correctly.
Then again, MLG said they initially cancelled SC2 from one of their events because Red Bull already signed up an event for that date, and you can't have 2 SC2 events at the same weekend. And the Red Bulle vent turned out to be an 8 player invitational. Soo.. Blizzard is completely fine with giving up a huge MLG tournament for an 8 player invitational, just because the latter was there first? And MLG is completely fine with that, too? Something just didn't add up, and it seemed like MLG used that as a convenient excuse (whether true or not) to ditch SC2 as a whole.
The impression I got was that Blizzard doesn't play favorites and doesn't try to make events move to get out of each others way. They don't want to take the place of events communicating with each other.
I said this before in a Dota 2 thread. MLG might come back to SC2, but right now they are taking a break. The community is doing the same. The Dota 2 community, though critical, has been overwhelmingly excited about the first big LAN in NA since TI3 and MLG is really doubling down on that. Both MLG and the SC2 community need to decide if they want to be together and not take the other for granted. I think a clean slate is best for both sides and MLG can see where they fit in after Blizzard announced WCS 2014.
But does that make any sense? Maybe I'm just dense here, but if I were Blizzard and I'd find out that a tournament with hundreds of participants and thousands of live viewers could not happen because of an 8 player invitational, I sure as hell would try to see what I can do to make both happen instead of saying "Eh, bad luck, better tell us your dates earlier next time!".
I'm not trying to say that MLG is the SC2-hating devil. But I do find the official reasoning for dropping SC2 to be rather.. odd, both from MLG's point of view as well as Blizzard's.
On November 13 2013 19:41 diwurn wrote: That's it for MLG and SC2 I guess... Hope Axeltoss and Axslav will find a new home!
yep. I wouldn´t expect MLG to pick up SC2 again unless it gets an unforseen boost in fanbase.
I don't think its about the fanbase/viewer numbers. Sure, Dota2 probably gets more viewers, but what Dota 2 has to offer is something that benefits MLG as well. For example, ticket sales to increase prize pools (like with this upcoming tournament), which makes the tournament even bigger.
Wasn't there some discussion awhile back about MLG having to pay to Blizzard for hosting tournaments?
Yes, though that has been refuted by MLG, if I remember correctly.
Then again, MLG said they initially cancelled SC2 from one of their events because Red Bull already signed up an event for that date, and you can't have 2 SC2 events at the same weekend. And the Red Bulle vent turned out to be an 8 player invitational. Soo.. Blizzard is completely fine with giving up a huge MLG tournament for an 8 player invitational, just because the latter was there first? And MLG is completely fine with that, too? Something just didn't add up, and it seemed like MLG used that as a convenient excuse (whether true or not) to ditch SC2 as a whole.
The impression I got was that Blizzard doesn't play favorites and doesn't try to make events move to get out of each others way. They don't want to take the place of events communicating with each other.
I said this before in a Dota 2 thread. MLG might come back to SC2, but right now they are taking a break. The community is doing the same. The Dota 2 community, though critical, has been overwhelmingly excited about the first big LAN in NA since TI3 and MLG is really doubling down on that. Both MLG and the SC2 community need to decide if they want to be together and not take the other for granted. I think a clean slate is best for both sides and MLG can see where they fit in after Blizzard announced WCS 2014.
But does that make any sense? Maybe I'm just dense here, but if I were Blizzard and I'd find out that a tournament with hundreds of participants and thousands of live viewers could not happen because of an 8 player invitational, I sure as hell would try to see what I can do to make both happen instead of saying "Eh, bad luck, better tell us your dates earlier next time!".
I'm not trying to say that MLG is the SC2-hating devil. But I do find the official reasoning for dropping SC2 to be rather.. odd, both from MLG's point of view as well as Blizzard's.
You would be shocked how little power Blizzard has at the end of the day to force another business to do something. People act like they are all powerful and control all of SC2, but they can't make anyone move an event to another date. Plus the venues that were rented costs thousands(sometimes tens of thousands) of dollars just to secure for a weekend. It also needs to be done months and months in advance, sometimes a full year. And you can't get that money back. Once these events are booked, there might be nothing Blizzard can do to change the dates. And at that point, what do they do? Tell Redbull they can't show SC2 at their SC2 only event? Sometimes there is no good solution and you just take the best of the terrible choices you have.
On November 13 2013 19:41 diwurn wrote: That's it for MLG and SC2 I guess... Hope Axeltoss and Axslav will find a new home!
yep. I wouldn´t expect MLG to pick up SC2 again unless it gets an unforseen boost in fanbase.
I don't think its about the fanbase/viewer numbers. Sure, Dota2 probably gets more viewers, but what Dota 2 has to offer is something that benefits MLG as well. For example, ticket sales to increase prize pools (like with this upcoming tournament), which makes the tournament even bigger.
Wasn't there some discussion awhile back about MLG having to pay to Blizzard for hosting tournaments?
Yes, though that has been refuted by MLG, if I remember correctly.
Then again, MLG said they initially cancelled SC2 from one of their events because Red Bull already signed up an event for that date, and you can't have 2 SC2 events at the same weekend. And the Red Bulle vent turned out to be an 8 player invitational. Soo.. Blizzard is completely fine with giving up a huge MLG tournament for an 8 player invitational, just because the latter was there first? And MLG is completely fine with that, too? Something just didn't add up, and it seemed like MLG used that as a convenient excuse (whether true or not) to ditch SC2 as a whole.
The impression I got was that Blizzard doesn't play favorites and doesn't try to make events move to get out of each others way. They don't want to take the place of events communicating with each other.
I said this before in a Dota 2 thread. MLG might come back to SC2, but right now they are taking a break. The community is doing the same. The Dota 2 community, though critical, has been overwhelmingly excited about the first big LAN in NA since TI3 and MLG is really doubling down on that. Both MLG and the SC2 community need to decide if they want to be together and not take the other for granted. I think a clean slate is best for both sides and MLG can see where they fit in after Blizzard announced WCS 2014.
But does that make any sense? Maybe I'm just dense here, but if I were Blizzard and I'd find out that a tournament with hundreds of participants and thousands of live viewers could not happen because of an 8 player invitational, I sure as hell would try to see what I can do to make both happen instead of saying "Eh, bad luck, better tell us your dates earlier next time!".
I'm not trying to say that MLG is the SC2-hating devil. But I do find the official reasoning for dropping SC2 to be rather.. odd, both from MLG's point of view as well as Blizzard's.
You would be shocked how little power Blizzard has at the end of the day to force another business to do something. People act like they are all powerful and control all of SC2, but they can't make anyone move an event to another date. Plus the venues that were rented costs thousands(sometimes tens of thousands) of dollars just to secure for a weekend. It also needs to be done months and months in advance, sometimes a full year. And you can't get that money back. Once these events are booked, there might be nothing Blizzard can do to change the dates. And at that point, what do they do? Tell Redbull they can't show SC2 at their SC2 only event? Sometimes there is no good solution and you just take the best of the terrible choices you have.
Allowing both events to take place seems like the obvious thing to do here, and only Blizzard could make that happen, since it is Blizzard in the first place that requires events to basically get permission before they take place.
And your argument actually goes both ways: Everything has to be planned and paid for and worked for months in advance. You think MLG would just give up their main game for one of their big events just like that, just because an 8 player invitational happened to be on the same weekend? Wouldn't it be a huge deal to have to change plans, etc. due to the scheduling conflict?
On November 13 2013 19:41 diwurn wrote: That's it for MLG and SC2 I guess... Hope Axeltoss and Axslav will find a new home!
yep. I wouldn´t expect MLG to pick up SC2 again unless it gets an unforseen boost in fanbase.
I don't think its about the fanbase/viewer numbers. Sure, Dota2 probably gets more viewers, but what Dota 2 has to offer is something that benefits MLG as well. For example, ticket sales to increase prize pools (like with this upcoming tournament), which makes the tournament even bigger.
Wasn't there some discussion awhile back about MLG having to pay to Blizzard for hosting tournaments?
Yes, though that has been refuted by MLG, if I remember correctly.
Then again, MLG said they initially cancelled SC2 from one of their events because Red Bull already signed up an event for that date, and you can't have 2 SC2 events at the same weekend. And the Red Bulle vent turned out to be an 8 player invitational. Soo.. Blizzard is completely fine with giving up a huge MLG tournament for an 8 player invitational, just because the latter was there first? And MLG is completely fine with that, too? Something just didn't add up, and it seemed like MLG used that as a convenient excuse (whether true or not) to ditch SC2 as a whole.
The impression I got was that Blizzard doesn't play favorites and doesn't try to make events move to get out of each others way. They don't want to take the place of events communicating with each other.
I said this before in a Dota 2 thread. MLG might come back to SC2, but right now they are taking a break. The community is doing the same. The Dota 2 community, though critical, has been overwhelmingly excited about the first big LAN in NA since TI3 and MLG is really doubling down on that. Both MLG and the SC2 community need to decide if they want to be together and not take the other for granted. I think a clean slate is best for both sides and MLG can see where they fit in after Blizzard announced WCS 2014.
But does that make any sense? Maybe I'm just dense here, but if I were Blizzard and I'd find out that a tournament with hundreds of participants and thousands of live viewers could not happen because of an 8 player invitational, I sure as hell would try to see what I can do to make both happen instead of saying "Eh, bad luck, better tell us your dates earlier next time!".
I'm not trying to say that MLG is the SC2-hating devil. But I do find the official reasoning for dropping SC2 to be rather.. odd, both from MLG's point of view as well as Blizzard's.
You would be shocked how little power Blizzard has at the end of the day to force another business to do something. People act like they are all powerful and control all of SC2, but they can't make anyone move an event to another date. Plus the venues that were rented costs thousands(sometimes tens of thousands) of dollars just to secure for a weekend. It also needs to be done months and months in advance, sometimes a full year. And you can't get that money back. Once these events are booked, there might be nothing Blizzard can do to change the dates. And at that point, what do they do? Tell Redbull they can't show SC2 at their SC2 only event? Sometimes there is no good solution and you just take the best of the terrible choices you have.
Allowing both events to take place seems like the obvious thing to do here, and only Blizzard could make that happen, since it is Blizzard in the first place that requires events to basically get permission before they take place.
And your argument actually goes both ways: Everything has to be planned and paid for and worked for months in advance. You think MLG would just give up their main game for one of their big events just like that, just because an 8 player invitational happened to be on the same weekend? Wouldn't it be a huge deal to have to change plans, etc. due to the scheduling conflict?
That is exactly what they did. They have a good relationship with Red Bull and decided to not step on their toes and just not have SC2 at this event. It's really not that crazy, it's really bad business to make the fans choose. They can always have SC2 at another event.
Oh man that sucks... and Noobcon in Ireland turned out the be a scam too. I feel sorry for them, they were doing really cool stuff at MLG and are so passionate. I hope they can stay in e-sports and find a new home.
On November 13 2013 19:41 diwurn wrote: That's it for MLG and SC2 I guess... Hope Axeltoss and Axslav will find a new home!
yep. I wouldn´t expect MLG to pick up SC2 again unless it gets an unforseen boost in fanbase.
I don't think its about the fanbase/viewer numbers. Sure, Dota2 probably gets more viewers, but what Dota 2 has to offer is something that benefits MLG as well. For example, ticket sales to increase prize pools (like with this upcoming tournament), which makes the tournament even bigger.
Wasn't there some discussion awhile back about MLG having to pay to Blizzard for hosting tournaments?
Yes, though that has been refuted by MLG, if I remember correctly.
Then again, MLG said they initially cancelled SC2 from one of their events because Red Bull already signed up an event for that date, and you can't have 2 SC2 events at the same weekend. And the Red Bulle vent turned out to be an 8 player invitational. Soo.. Blizzard is completely fine with giving up a huge MLG tournament for an 8 player invitational, just because the latter was there first? And MLG is completely fine with that, too? Something just didn't add up, and it seemed like MLG used that as a convenient excuse (whether true or not) to ditch SC2 as a whole.
The impression I got was that Blizzard doesn't play favorites and doesn't try to make events move to get out of each others way. They don't want to take the place of events communicating with each other.
I said this before in a Dota 2 thread. MLG might come back to SC2, but right now they are taking a break. The community is doing the same. The Dota 2 community, though critical, has been overwhelmingly excited about the first big LAN in NA since TI3 and MLG is really doubling down on that. Both MLG and the SC2 community need to decide if they want to be together and not take the other for granted. I think a clean slate is best for both sides and MLG can see where they fit in after Blizzard announced WCS 2014.
But does that make any sense? Maybe I'm just dense here, but if I were Blizzard and I'd find out that a tournament with hundreds of participants and thousands of live viewers could not happen because of an 8 player invitational, I sure as hell would try to see what I can do to make both happen instead of saying "Eh, bad luck, better tell us your dates earlier next time!".
I'm not trying to say that MLG is the SC2-hating devil. But I do find the official reasoning for dropping SC2 to be rather.. odd, both from MLG's point of view as well as Blizzard's.
You would be shocked how little power Blizzard has at the end of the day to force another business to do something. People act like they are all powerful and control all of SC2, but they can't make anyone move an event to another date. Plus the venues that were rented costs thousands(sometimes tens of thousands) of dollars just to secure for a weekend. It also needs to be done months and months in advance, sometimes a full year. And you can't get that money back. Once these events are booked, there might be nothing Blizzard can do to change the dates. And at that point, what do they do? Tell Redbull they can't show SC2 at their SC2 only event? Sometimes there is no good solution and you just take the best of the terrible choices you have.
Allowing both events to take place seems like the obvious thing to do here, and only Blizzard could make that happen, since it is Blizzard in the first place that requires events to basically get permission before they take place.
And your argument actually goes both ways: Everything has to be planned and paid for and worked for months in advance. You think MLG would just give up their main game for one of their big events just like that, just because an 8 player invitational happened to be on the same weekend? Wouldn't it be a huge deal to have to change plans, etc. due to the scheduling conflict?
That is exactly what they did. They have a good relationship with Red Bull and decided to not step on their toes and just not have SC2 at this event. It's really not that crazy, it's really bad business to make the fans choose. They can always have SC2 at another event.
I just cannot wrap my head around the idea that "Good relationship with Red Bull" is more important than "Main event of one of our big events". Of course I'm not MLG, and I might be missing something here. And I might be entirely wrong, too.
But to me it just feels that there was way more going on in the background, and that MLG was neither surprised nor entirely unhappy about having to drop SC2. And that they did not pick it up again and now let go of their SC2 casters just confirms to me that they are not planning to return to the game in the near or intermediate future.
On November 13 2013 21:17 Musicus wrote: Oh man that sucks... and Noobcon in Ireland turned out the be a scam too. I feel sorry for them, they were doing really cool stuff at MLG and are so passionate. I hope they can stay in e-sports and find a new home.
care to elaborate further about Noobcon? I know it was cancelled but that's about the extent of what I know(or is that it?)
On November 13 2013 19:41 diwurn wrote: That's it for MLG and SC2 I guess... Hope Axeltoss and Axslav will find a new home!
yep. I wouldn´t expect MLG to pick up SC2 again unless it gets an unforseen boost in fanbase.
I don't think its about the fanbase/viewer numbers. Sure, Dota2 probably gets more viewers, but what Dota 2 has to offer is something that benefits MLG as well. For example, ticket sales to increase prize pools (like with this upcoming tournament), which makes the tournament even bigger.
Wasn't there some discussion awhile back about MLG having to pay to Blizzard for hosting tournaments?
Yes, though that has been refuted by MLG, if I remember correctly.
Then again, MLG said they initially cancelled SC2 from one of their events because Red Bull already signed up an event for that date, and you can't have 2 SC2 events at the same weekend. And the Red Bulle vent turned out to be an 8 player invitational. Soo.. Blizzard is completely fine with giving up a huge MLG tournament for an 8 player invitational, just because the latter was there first? And MLG is completely fine with that, too? Something just didn't add up, and it seemed like MLG used that as a convenient excuse (whether true or not) to ditch SC2 as a whole.
The impression I got was that Blizzard doesn't play favorites and doesn't try to make events move to get out of each others way. They don't want to take the place of events communicating with each other.
I said this before in a Dota 2 thread. MLG might come back to SC2, but right now they are taking a break. The community is doing the same. The Dota 2 community, though critical, has been overwhelmingly excited about the first big LAN in NA since TI3 and MLG is really doubling down on that. Both MLG and the SC2 community need to decide if they want to be together and not take the other for granted. I think a clean slate is best for both sides and MLG can see where they fit in after Blizzard announced WCS 2014.
But does that make any sense? Maybe I'm just dense here, but if I were Blizzard and I'd find out that a tournament with hundreds of participants and thousands of live viewers could not happen because of an 8 player invitational, I sure as hell would try to see what I can do to make both happen instead of saying "Eh, bad luck, better tell us your dates earlier next time!".
I'm not trying to say that MLG is the SC2-hating devil. But I do find the official reasoning for dropping SC2 to be rather.. odd, both from MLG's point of view as well as Blizzard's.
You would be shocked how little power Blizzard has at the end of the day to force another business to do something. People act like they are all powerful and control all of SC2, but they can't make anyone move an event to another date. Plus the venues that were rented costs thousands(sometimes tens of thousands) of dollars just to secure for a weekend. It also needs to be done months and months in advance, sometimes a full year. And you can't get that money back. Once these events are booked, there might be nothing Blizzard can do to change the dates. And at that point, what do they do? Tell Redbull they can't show SC2 at their SC2 only event? Sometimes there is no good solution and you just take the best of the terrible choices you have.
Allowing both events to take place seems like the obvious thing to do here, and only Blizzard could make that happen, since it is Blizzard in the first place that requires events to basically get permission before they take place.
And your argument actually goes both ways: Everything has to be planned and paid for and worked for months in advance. You think MLG would just give up their main game for one of their big events just like that, just because an 8 player invitational happened to be on the same weekend? Wouldn't it be a huge deal to have to change plans, etc. due to the scheduling conflict?
That is exactly what they did. They have a good relationship with Red Bull and decided to not step on their toes and just not have SC2 at this event. It's really not that crazy, it's really bad business to make the fans choose. They can always have SC2 at another event.
I just cannot wrap my head around the idea that "Good relationship with Red Bull" is more important than "Main event of one of our big events". Of course I'm not MLG, and I might be missing something here. And I might be entirely wrong, too.
But to me it just feels that there was way more going on in the background, and that MLG was neither surprised nor entirely unhappy about having to drop SC2. And that they did not pick it up again and now let go of their SC2 casters just confirms to me that they are not planning to return to the game in the near or intermediate future.
Looking back, they were clearly planning to get out of sc2, otherwise they would've resumed hosting sc2 tournaments at their events. That Red Bull tournament was just a good excuse that came in handy.
hope axslav stays in sc2 casting for axeltoss ... dont know he was the most boring caster for me and i always turned him off so i dont mind what he does but wish him best luck obv.
Seems like MLG definitely distancing itself from SC2... Unfortunate, I was hoping that MLG would start running smaller SC2 tournaments... Ones where the incentive for people to fly across the globe is lower. But alas we do not end up getting a decent lan event in the NA scene with mostly NA players playing.
The community actually killed MLG/SC2 by insisting upon the involvement of Korean players. Curiosity propped it up for a tournament or two, but in the end the move had the effect of crushing the NA scene and a good portion of domestic interest. Gotta tip your hat to everyone for their short-sightedness.
On November 13 2013 21:59 jdsowa wrote: The community actually killed MLG/SC2 by insisting upon the involvement of Korean players. Curiosity propped it up for a tournament or two, but in the end the move had the effect of crushing the NA scene and a good portion of domestic interest. Gotta tip your hat to everyone for their short-sightedness.
Yeah god forbid we see the highest level games and best players possible. You realize the Koreans were kinda big in the SC1 scene, right? It's only natural we care about them in SC2.
On November 13 2013 21:17 Musicus wrote: Oh man that sucks... and Noobcon in Ireland turned out the be a scam too. I feel sorry for them, they were doing really cool stuff at MLG and are so passionate. I hope they can stay in e-sports and find a new home.
care to elaborate further about Noobcon? I know it was cancelled but that's about the extent of what I know(or is that it?)
Basically, the event has been cancelled and the organization running it has been tight lipped about why. Some people have had their tickets refunded. Some of the players and teams going to the event are bound to lose a lot of money because of cancelled planet tickets and such. There is at least one sponsor who wants his money back from the organization.
On November 13 2013 21:59 jdsowa wrote: The community actually killed MLG/SC2 by insisting upon the involvement of Korean players. Curiosity propped it up for a tournament or two, but in the end the move had the effect of crushing the NA scene and a good portion of domestic interest. Gotta tip your hat to everyone for their short-sightedness.
Yes the good old days when MLG consisted of the same 16 players over and over in pool play. That was such a draw for viewers.
On November 13 2013 21:59 jdsowa wrote: The community actually killed MLG/SC2 by insisting upon the involvement of Korean players. Curiosity propped it up for a tournament or two, but in the end the move had the effect of crushing the NA scene and a good portion of domestic interest. Gotta tip your hat to everyone for their short-sightedness.
Yeah god forbid we see the highest level games and best players possible. You realize the Koreans were kinda big in the SC1 scene, right? It's only natural we care about them in SC2.
Personally I think there could have been a better balance and MLG does seem to be focused on running NA only qualifiers for Dota. Those teams are going to get mauled by the big boys, but the qualifer event had its own prize money, so ther is something for NA teams to fight for. With the current WCS being so heavily Korean dominated,not here is room for an NA focused MLG event of some form.
The real question is does the SC2 community want MLG events to have SC2. I am not 100% sure that people do or how much they want it.
On November 13 2013 21:59 jdsowa wrote: The community actually killed MLG/SC2 by insisting upon the involvement of Korean players. Curiosity propped it up for a tournament or two, but in the end the move had the effect of crushing the NA scene and a good portion of domestic interest. Gotta tip your hat to everyone for their short-sightedness.
SC2 shot itself in the foot. First with the boring Infestor that dominated at the end of WOL, and then the changes in HOTS. I personally still don't think the game is as exciting as it was in 2011.
Idra's run at MLG Orlando, and MLG Orlando in general was my favorite tournament, and it was full of Koreans. But Huk finished 1st, and Idra 4th.
They are both really into helping the community any way they can, especially Axeltoss who doesnt hesitate to reach out to people when he feels he can be useful.
On November 13 2013 23:37 lichter wrote: If sc2 is a dead game are we necro(ludicru)philiacs?
I'm really hoping it will become a cult following or niche market. One of those catchy things I can be all hipster about.
I'm already super niche and hipster about other crap so I guess sc2 becoming like that would suit me
We are almost there, soon when people ask who our favorite player is, we can say "you most likely haven't heard of him. He is big in the Greek SC2 scene. His style is really hard to explain and super experimental. It's hard for most fans to appreciate it."
I can't fucking wait to be that far up my own ass.
On November 13 2013 22:43 MagnuMizer wrote: i guess we don't need much more evidence that SC2 is indeed truly dying... what a shame :'(
After Blizzcon getting 150K+ in the finals?
Well if you consider that events run independent from Blizzard without the infrastructure to build up an enormous final have done better in the past then that number should be worrying to you as a SC2 fan. I'm not saying that the game is dead, but 150k considering all the build up and the fact that Blizzcon has a lot of built in viewers already (WoW got 50+k, hearthstone got 100k), it's not a good sign.
Anyway that's really beside the point. What's more important in regards to MLG is what there is to do in SC2 as an independent organisation. Of course it is still possible to run events in the game alongside the WCS, but if you're an organisation which relies on few key games then it becomes increasingly difficult. Because you are competing against Blizzard, of course they give you WCS points and it may look like a partnership. But viewers can only watch so much content, players can only play in so many competitions, and you don't have the freedom to play by your own rules and schedule.
Making a sustainable business in eSport is difficult enough by itself when you're not competing against the developer. So moving to a game where the developer actively helps you find additional revenue streams while not stepping on your toes every week is only logical.
~ Anyway I guess a bit more on topic. I was a big Axslav fan in WC3, it was interesting to see someone have a fair bit of success without good micro in a very micro intensive game like WC3. I used to download pretty much every replay of his on their old clan site. So although I never felt as attached to him as a commentator I hope him the best.
Felt like this was a long time coming. Good luck to both of the them in whatever they end up doing. Axslav is one of my favorite casters and he was one of my favorite protoss streamers back when he did so I hope he sticks around.
MLG sucks (in a way), though I knew about this news quite some time already, so not quite as surprised TBH..
However - thought that the televised events were enough to keep it going, but I guess wasn't enough.. That being said - no live event in MLG - no viewership..
Yeah - sad for Axslav and Axeltoss, hope they get it on in the future to come
On November 13 2013 21:59 jdsowa wrote: The community actually killed MLG/SC2 by insisting upon the involvement of Korean players. Curiosity propped it up for a tournament or two, but in the end the move had the effect of crushing the NA scene and a good portion of domestic interest. Gotta tip your hat to everyone for their short-sightedness.
Yeah god forbid we see the highest level games and best players possible. You realize the Koreans were kinda big in the SC1 scene, right? It's only natural we care about them in SC2.
People are still repeating this stuff? I dunno if you realize where the scene is at currently but... everything you said completely sidesteps the issues the poster you quoted brought up.
I hope Axslav can find a new position. He has very good insight to the game and it would be a shame to see him stay idle for too long.
I'm a bit bitter to see MLG doing their best " Look how good we are" eyes to the DotA 2 scene during that. I guess it's the logical business move to do, but I still feel salty over it.
On November 14 2013 00:52 Noocta wrote: I'm a bit bitter to see MLG doing their best " Look how good we are" eyes to the DotA 2 scene during that. I guess it's the logical business move to do, but I still feel salty over it.
It's a two way street, because the Dota 2 community is very excited bout MLG becoming involved. MLG has hit some bumps and the community has gotten grumpy, but over all they are way less pissy about minor details(like stage size, or that call of duty exists). At the end of the day, if the community want MLG back, they can get them to cover SC2 again, just like dota, who has been pushing for MLG forever.
Sad to see MLG go down this path, and hope the best for Axslav, I really enjoyed his analytical style and his passion for the game. ALWAYS a jot to watch and hear A caster who knows what he is talking about! GL to you both <3
If i were teamliquid.net and axelbrothers, i'd make a hard swing to dota. sc2 isnt such a good spectator sport as very little small adjustments in gameplay can define an outcome. In dota this is less the case as each character is only 10% influence in the game. Also dota has got x^65489755231 teampoosibilities and sc2 has alot less (and therefore alot of the same games). Basically, the mainstrain will never consumer sc2 as they will consume dota2 or whatever game.
On November 14 2013 01:34 govie wrote: If i were teamliquid.net and axelbrothers, i'd make a hard swing to dota. sc2 isnt such a good spectator sport as very little small adjustments in gameplay can define an outcome. In dota this is less the case as each character is only 10% influence in the game. Also dota has got x^65489755231 teampoosibilities and sc2 has alot less (and therefore alot of the same games). Basically, the mainstrain will never consumer sc2 as they will consume dota2 or whatever game.
You know I like to watch and play Basketball, but in Germany the majority only likes football. Should I also switch?
On November 14 2013 00:52 Noocta wrote: I'm a bit bitter to see MLG doing their best " Look how good we are" eyes to the DotA 2 scene during that. I guess it's the logical business move to do, but I still feel salty over it.
It's a two way street, because the Dota 2 community is very excited bout MLG becoming involved. MLG has hit some bumps and the community has gotten grumpy, but over all they are way less pissy about minor details(like stage size, or that call of duty exists). At the end of the day, if the community want MLG back, they can get them to cover SC2 again, just like dota, who has been pushing for MLG forever.
Well people also need to consider that different companies have different approaches to different games.
DH Dota is nothing like DH SC2 for example (until very recently), and if it was then I don't think people would be so full of praise for DH and spite for MLG in the SC2 community.
On November 14 2013 00:52 Noocta wrote: I'm a bit bitter to see MLG doing their best " Look how good we are" eyes to the DotA 2 scene during that. I guess it's the logical business move to do, but I still feel salty over it.
It's a two way street, because the Dota 2 community is very excited bout MLG becoming involved. MLG has hit some bumps and the community has gotten grumpy, but over all they are way less pissy about minor details(like stage size, or that call of duty exists). At the end of the day, if the community want MLG back, they can get them to cover SC2 again, just like dota, who has been pushing for MLG forever.
Well people also need to consider that different companies have different approaches to different games.
DH Dota is nothing like DH SC2 for example (until very recently), and if it was then I don't think people would be so full of praise for DH and spite for MLG in the SC2 community.
That is totally valid too and the SC2 community loves DH without question, even if they settle matches through a coin flip. And maybe Redbull can really get a larger NA even going, with online qualifiers and everything. Personally I like that everyone is focusing on the game that works for them.
On November 13 2013 23:37 lichter wrote: If sc2 is a dead game are we necro(ludicru)philiacs?
I'm really hoping it will become a cult following or niche market. One of those catchy things I can be all hipster about.
I'm already super niche and hipster about other crap so I guess sc2 becoming like that would suit me
me too I can just imagine some of the conversations I'd have too :\ "Who's your favorite player?" "Taeja!" "Oh yeah he's awesome, what champion did he play again?"
Not too surprising given MLG's decreased involvement with SC2, but sill unfortunate for Ax&Ax. Hopefully one of the other organizations will find room for them.
On November 14 2013 01:34 govie wrote: If i were teamliquid.net and axelbrothers, i'd make a hard swing to dota. sc2 isnt such a good spectator sport as very little small adjustments in gameplay can define an outcome. In dota this is less the case as each character is only 10% influence in the game. Also dota has got x^65489755231 teampoosibilities and sc2 has alot less (and therefore alot of the same games). Basically, the mainstrain will never consumer sc2 as they will consume dota2 or whatever game.
You know I like to watch and play Basketball, but in Germany the majority only likes football. Should I also switch?
Ofcourse not, but teamliquid, axelbrothers and MLG do need revenue. for sc2 there will allways be fans because it is one of the hardest mechanical games on earth, but broadcasting and covering the hardest game on earth does not allways pay the bills.
On November 14 2013 01:34 govie wrote: If i were teamliquid.net and axelbrothers, i'd make a hard swing to dota. sc2 isnt such a good spectator sport as very little small adjustments in gameplay can define an outcome. In dota this is less the case as each character is only 10% influence in the game. Also dota has got x^65489755231 teampoosibilities and sc2 has alot less (and therefore alot of the same games). Basically, the mainstrain will never consumer sc2 as they will consume dota2 or whatever game.
You know I like to watch and play Basketball, but in Germany the majority only likes football. Should I also switch?
Ofcourse not, but teamliquid, axelbrothers and MLG do need revenue. for sc2 there will allways be fans because it is one of the hardest mechanical games on earth, but broadcasting and covering the hardest game on earth does not allways pay the bills.
Well MLG is doing that to some extent arleady. TL added Dota2 content, but you can't expect them to drop or reduce starcraft content. Apart from their love for the game, they also basically have a monopoly as the best sc forum there is. TL is starcraft. Adding Dota2 was already big enough I think. Now the Axbros (again apart from their love for sc2) are experts on the game. I don't think they have the same level of understanding in any different game. So I think switching games is unrealistic, since they don't have a name or value in different scenes. They will stay with sc2 and I'm not that worried about them. There aren't that many affordable good casters in NA, who wouldn't make more money with a youtube channel than working for a league.
I don't understand what all the speculation is about. I don't know why sundance doesn't just shine some light on the matter. He's old spoke about it twice I think and a total of a couple of tweets. I think his stance on it is basically "look we tried to monetize it, and it didn't work out. Maybe the game is not ready. I know that some other games are, plus we don't have to spend licensing fees just to hold a tournament, so let's just go with them." I would have to summarize sundance's position as this.
And that goes right back to the esports charity argument. You have corporations and business entities getting into the starcraft mix, what did you think was going to happen? They are only in it to turn a profit. When you try to turn something like a hobby of starcraft or a game of starcraft into the sport of starcraft, it only follows that it must turn a profit. People may argue what does or does not constitue a "sport" but I have to add that turning a profit is probably a very important watershed moment for when an activity becomes a sport. Starcraft seemed to have turned that corner, but has it really?
- teams disappearing left and right - sponsorship money for teams not paid - prize money for tournaments not paid - tournaments dropping starcraft 2 from competitive prize pool - players complaining about lack of transparency
If you look at the trajectory here, I'd say we were close to becoming a sport, but not quite. It's going to take several more years and perhaps several more iterations of this game we've come to love in order for it to become a sport. But that's why things become sports also - because no one gives up on it. Don't be suprised at the lack of attention you're getting - be happy there is any interest at all. Keep your head down and keep at it. But if a guy like sundance can't see what's special about this game (this game, which by the way created inside of it the other games we're competing against...) then you can't explain it to him. It would be easier to get your high school principal to invest in the future of starcraft. It's not going to happen. That being said, it's not really important that business executives like Giovanni understand how special the game is. In fact, if we're relying on CEO's of major organizations to fund starcraft at a net loss, it's charity, and that's not sports. No one said the goal was to convince people of how great of a community we have or how special we are. My mother is not on my resume as one of my professional references, even though she understands I'm pretty special.
But it's not the worst thing in the world. It'll happen eventually. When the esports scene hits it's moment of inertia, we'll all recognize it. But stop trying to push what are ultimately delusional goals on a flowering bud.
I've followed MLG since 2006 when they were doing Halo 2, one of my favorite games ever, and I got so excited when they picked up SC2, as well. Until now, even though they stopped hosting SC2 tournaments, I thought it was mostly due to conflicts with WCS that they would resolve for next year. After all, they've continued broadcasting SC2 on their website, and even now there's an old SC2 stream that is being played on their front page.
However, by releasing their commentators for SC2, it looks like their serious intentions with SC2 are at an end... who is going to pick up the slack and make this game awesome in NA again? It was always fun having the rivalry between MLG and Dreamhack, and it would be a shame to have nothing in NA to match it.
Not only sad to think that a huge part of SC2 is gone for us, but I've been following MLG for so long, it's weird to realize that they don't have a single game on their circuit now that I even care about.
Well, whatever. Best of luck to Axletoss and Axslav, hope you guys find a niche in the scene to fill, and maybe you can even be involved in continuing to grow the NA SC2 scene. One can only hope. Cheers on a job well done at MLG, though
It would be nice if an interview could be made with Sundance asking him if there are any future plans for SC2 at MLG, especially with the format change for WCS.
Man, this sucks, say what you will about their casting but they did every event they could, from dreamhack down to the smallest tournaments you could find. I was lucky enough to play on stream with MLG and it was awesome. This is a real shame.
On November 14 2013 01:34 govie wrote: If i were teamliquid.net and axelbrothers, i'd make a hard swing to dota. sc2 isnt such a good spectator sport as very little small adjustments in gameplay can define an outcome. In dota this is less the case as each character is only 10% influence in the game. Also dota has got x^65489755231 teampoosibilities and sc2 has alot less (and therefore alot of the same games). Basically, the mainstrain will never consumer sc2 as they will consume dota2 or whatever game.
You know I like to watch and play Basketball, but in Germany the majority only likes football. Should I also switch?
Ofcourse not, but teamliquid, axelbrothers and MLG do need revenue. for sc2 there will allways be fans because it is one of the hardest mechanical games on earth, but broadcasting and covering the hardest game on earth does not allways pay the bills.
Hey, maybe they just don't want to do DotA because they like Starcraft and/or don't like DotA?
Oh man, that sucks for the two of them, I hope they find something new Was a long time coming though, with MLG basically dropping SC2 altogether (traitors! ).
On November 14 2013 05:28 JimSocks wrote: the new xbox1 and ps4 is about to released. gotta gear up for the latest cod and halo's you know? can't say no to that sonyµsoft money!
Wtf are you talking about? Dota 2 is MLGs main show this time out. And Titan fall looks like the fucking shit and I will watch that any day.
On November 14 2013 03:58 CakeSauc3 wrote: Man, this is sad news.
I've followed MLG since 2006 when they were doing Halo 2, one of my favorite games ever, and I got so excited when they picked up SC2, as well. Until now, even though they stopped hosting SC2 tournaments, I thought it was mostly due to conflicts with WCS that they would resolve for next year. After all, they've continued broadcasting SC2 on their website, and even now there's an old SC2 stream that is being played on their front page.
However, by releasing their commentators for SC2, it looks like their serious intentions with SC2 are at an end... who is going to pick up the slack and make this game awesome in NA again? It was always fun having the rivalry between MLG and Dreamhack, and it would be a shame to have nothing in NA to match it.
Not only sad to think that a huge part of SC2 is gone for us, but I've been following MLG for so long, it's weird to realize that they don't have a single game on their circuit now that I even care about.
Well, whatever. Best of luck to Axletoss and Axslav, hope you guys find a niche in the scene to fill, and maybe you can even be involved in continuing to grow the NA SC2 scene. One can only hope. Cheers on a job well done at MLG, though
Red Bull Battlegrounds certainly has the potential to fill the gap of MLG for NA if they become a little more regular and maybe add an open bracket or at least increase the number of participants to 32 or 64.
SC2 was gone from Columbus anyway, so this is merely MLG finally being honest with us and admitting that they're completely dropping SC2.
Oh noes, where will we ever find another company willing to half-ass tournaments while in the next breath promising that they care about our NA scene? I'm still waiting for Sundance to admit that they pillaged the NA scene for all it was worth and left us a rotting corpse once it wouldn't make them anymore money. Won't watch another MLG production (and will actively steer my friends that are getting into ESPORTS away) until they do.
Sad for Axslav and Axeltoss, but I'm sure they'll find other work. WCS kind of shrunk the need for casters, but there are always production positions/Dota2 stuff to do. Dota2 is growing, and it doesn't look like it'll stop once you take into account all of the stability-longevity stuff that Valve has introduced.
This is more a news story for the implications of MLG's involvement in SC2, which hilariously MLGAdam was defending in a Dota2 thread just the other day.
On November 14 2013 05:57 Mauldo wrote: SC2 was gone from Columbus anyway, so this is merely MLG finally being honest with us and admitting that they're completely dropping SC2.
Oh noes, where will we ever find another company willing to half-ass tournaments while in the next breath promising that they care about our NA scene? I'm still waiting for Sundance to admit that they pillaged the NA scene for all it was worth and left us a rotting corpse once it wouldn't make them anymore money. Won't watch another MLG production (and will actively steer my friends that are getting into ESPORTS away) until they do.
Sad for Axslav and Axeltoss, but I'm sure they'll find other work. WCS kind of shrunk the need for casters, but there are always production positions/Dota2 stuff to do. Dota2 is growing, and it doesn't look like it'll stop once you take into account all of the stability-longevity stuff that Valve has introduced.
This is more a news story for the implications of MLG's involvement in SC2, which hilariously MLGAdam was defending in a Dota2 thread just the other day.
I know it's trendy to hate MLG, but holy shit we could do with half the shit they're getting. They may have made questionable decisions and they may have screwed up (repeatedly), but their tournaments were unquestionably awesome. MLG Fall and MLG Winter 2013 are some of my favorite tournaments of all time. They weren't half-assed, they were awesome. All tournaments have flaws - Blizzcon did, Dreamhacks do, IEMs do - singling out MLG and claiming that they more than anyone else produced bad tournaments and somehow made sure it cost them as little as possible so that they could "pillage" is ridiculous.
This is why I laugh when people say supporting one game supports all games. No it doesn't, for the simple fact that esports is niche and there's not enough money to go around for all games and it can't be compared to traditional sports. MLG chose dota 2 over sc2 and that's fine as that's their business choice and right to do so. However, supporting dota 2 doesn't mean you're supporting sc2 as well. It means you're supporting dota 2.
It always makes me laugh when esports personalities say support this game and you're helping all games. They say that mainly to be politically correct because the reality is the esports games are competing with each other for a finite amount of tourney/sponsor money.
This is not the case with sports where the NHL can sustain itself still even though it gets stomped by the NFL in terms of audience/money. There's still enough money in the NHL ecosystem to self sustain itself. This isn't the case in esports where the success of one game will come at the expense of another.
On November 14 2013 05:57 Mauldo wrote: SC2 was gone from Columbus anyway, so this is merely MLG finally being honest with us and admitting that they're completely dropping SC2.
Oh noes, where will we ever find another company willing to half-ass tournaments while in the next breath promising that they care about our NA scene? I'm still waiting for Sundance to admit that they pillaged the NA scene for all it was worth and left us a rotting corpse once it wouldn't make them anymore money. Won't watch another MLG production (and will actively steer my friends that are getting into ESPORTS away) until they do.
Sad for Axslav and Axeltoss, but I'm sure they'll find other work. WCS kind of shrunk the need for casters, but there are always production positions/Dota2 stuff to do. Dota2 is growing, and it doesn't look like it'll stop once you take into account all of the stability-longevity stuff that Valve has introduced.
This is more a news story for the implications of MLG's involvement in SC2, which hilariously MLGAdam was defending in a Dota2 thread just the other day.
I know it's trendy to hate MLG, but holy shit we could do with half the shit they're getting. They may have made questionable decisions and they may have screwed up (repeatedly), but their tournaments were unquestionably awesome. MLG Fall and MLG Winter 2013 are some of my favorite tournaments of all time. They weren't half-assed, they were awesome. All tournaments have flaws - Blizzcon did, Dreamhacks do, IEMs do - singling out MLG and claiming that they more than anyone else produced bad tournaments and somehow made sure it cost them as little as possible so that they could "pillage" is ridiculous.
Well I know it´s too romantic, but one should consider that it was SC2 (and the GSL partnership), that pulled MLG back on track in 2011 - nothing else. They would be dead and long forgotten if it wasn´t that. So in my oppinion, it´s pretty disappointing to see them drop SC2, especially in this fashion (slowly and quiet - there is still now official statement and no reason given why). I mean if they would say, there are not enough viewers for SC2 and they are losing money with it, we could at least understand it somehow. But there is nothing but pulling the plug silently.
On November 14 2013 05:57 Mauldo wrote: SC2 was gone from Columbus anyway, so this is merely MLG finally being honest with us and admitting that they're completely dropping SC2.
Oh noes, where will we ever find another company willing to half-ass tournaments while in the next breath promising that they care about our NA scene? I'm still waiting for Sundance to admit that they pillaged the NA scene for all it was worth and left us a rotting corpse once it wouldn't make them anymore money. Won't watch another MLG production (and will actively steer my friends that are getting into ESPORTS away) until they do.
Sad for Axslav and Axeltoss, but I'm sure they'll find other work. WCS kind of shrunk the need for casters, but there are always production positions/Dota2 stuff to do. Dota2 is growing, and it doesn't look like it'll stop once you take into account all of the stability-longevity stuff that Valve has introduced.
This is more a news story for the implications of MLG's involvement in SC2, which hilariously MLGAdam was defending in a Dota2 thread just the other day.
I know it's trendy to hate MLG, but holy shit we could do with half the shit they're getting. They may have made questionable decisions and they may have screwed up (repeatedly), but their tournaments were unquestionably awesome. MLG Fall and MLG Winter 2013 are some of my favorite tournaments of all time. They weren't half-assed, they were awesome. All tournaments have flaws - Blizzcon did, Dreamhacks do, IEMs do - singling out MLG and claiming that they more than anyone else produced bad tournaments and somehow made sure it cost them as little as possible so that they could "pillage" is ridiculous.
Well I know it´s too romantic, but one should consider that it was SC2 (and the GSL partnership), that pulled MLG back on track in 2011 - nothing else. They would be dead and long forgotten if it wasn´t that. So in my oppinion, it´s pretty disappointing to see them drop SC2, especially in this fashion (slowly and quiet - there is still now official statement and no reason given why). I mean if they would say, there are not enough viewers for SC2 and they are losing money with it, we could at least understand it somehow. But there is nothing but pulling the plug silently.
The reason why SC2 isn't at Columbus is stated several times in this thread...
I swear people just hear what they want and ignore the rest.
On November 14 2013 05:57 Mauldo wrote: SC2 was gone from Columbus anyway, so this is merely MLG finally being honest with us and admitting that they're completely dropping SC2.
Oh noes, where will we ever find another company willing to half-ass tournaments while in the next breath promising that they care about our NA scene? I'm still waiting for Sundance to admit that they pillaged the NA scene for all it was worth and left us a rotting corpse once it wouldn't make them anymore money. Won't watch another MLG production (and will actively steer my friends that are getting into ESPORTS away) until they do.
Sad for Axslav and Axeltoss, but I'm sure they'll find other work. WCS kind of shrunk the need for casters, but there are always production positions/Dota2 stuff to do. Dota2 is growing, and it doesn't look like it'll stop once you take into account all of the stability-longevity stuff that Valve has introduced.
This is more a news story for the implications of MLG's involvement in SC2, which hilariously MLGAdam was defending in a Dota2 thread just the other day.
I know it's trendy to hate MLG, but holy shit we could do with half the shit they're getting. They may have made questionable decisions and they may have screwed up (repeatedly), but their tournaments were unquestionably awesome. MLG Fall and MLG Winter 2013 are some of my favorite tournaments of all time. They weren't half-assed, they were awesome. All tournaments have flaws - Blizzcon did, Dreamhacks do, IEMs do - singling out MLG and claiming that they more than anyone else produced bad tournaments and somehow made sure it cost them as little as possible so that they could "pillage" is ridiculous.
Well I know it´s too romantic, but one should consider that it was SC2 (and the GSL partnership), that pulled MLG back on track in 2011 - nothing else. They would be dead and long forgotten if it wasn´t that. So in my oppinion, it´s pretty disappointing to see them drop SC2, especially in this fashion (slowly and quiet - there is still now official statement and no reason given why). I mean if they would say, there are not enough viewers for SC2 and they are losing money with it, we could at least understand it somehow. But there is nothing but pulling the plug silently.
The reason why SC2 isn't at Columbus is stated several times in this thread...
I swear people just hear what they want and ignore the rest.
You might as well believe in Santa Claus, if you believe, that this is the true reason
On November 14 2013 05:57 Mauldo wrote: SC2 was gone from Columbus anyway, so this is merely MLG finally being honest with us and admitting that they're completely dropping SC2.
Oh noes, where will we ever find another company willing to half-ass tournaments while in the next breath promising that they care about our NA scene? I'm still waiting for Sundance to admit that they pillaged the NA scene for all it was worth and left us a rotting corpse once it wouldn't make them anymore money. Won't watch another MLG production (and will actively steer my friends that are getting into ESPORTS away) until they do.
Sad for Axslav and Axeltoss, but I'm sure they'll find other work. WCS kind of shrunk the need for casters, but there are always production positions/Dota2 stuff to do. Dota2 is growing, and it doesn't look like it'll stop once you take into account all of the stability-longevity stuff that Valve has introduced.
This is more a news story for the implications of MLG's involvement in SC2, which hilariously MLGAdam was defending in a Dota2 thread just the other day.
Yeah, it's not like the MLG Winter Championship 2013 was still one of the biggest and best tournament of this year. It's not like MLG invested four years and hosted some of the most memorable tournaments in SC2 history. It's not like MLG invested a shit-ton of time and money (which they likely never recovered) just to appease a completely unpleasable fanbase and fly in Koreans, something that had never been done.
This community just loves to bite the hands that feed it.
Remember when Steel Series stopped sponsoring Grubby? The community said a big thanks for funding a fan favourite's career and moved on - oh, no, wait, they delivered a giant "fuck you", swore they would boycott the product line, and made it loud and clear how dangerous it was to become a sponsor for SC2.
As much as it would suck for the scene, I would still love to see the SC2 community get a proper comeuppance for all the entitled bullshit its pulled over these four years.
On November 14 2013 03:38 GameHeart wrote: These guys are both great, I hope someone picks them up to do regular casting again.
I don´t think so. There is no need for more casters out there (besides for the very big tournaments). Although they might be good at analysing I feel like they lack of "excitement". I might feel this way because of the way the MLG content was produced but still. If I compare them to the major casters like Apollo, Artosis, Khaldor, Kaelaris, Day 9, Wolf ... or even the "smaller" ones like Take or Mori (yeah I absolutely love his casting), they don´t stand a "chance.
Nevertheless I wish them the best of luck in the future!
On November 14 2013 05:57 Mauldo wrote: SC2 was gone from Columbus anyway, so this is merely MLG finally being honest with us and admitting that they're completely dropping SC2.
Oh noes, where will we ever find another company willing to half-ass tournaments while in the next breath promising that they care about our NA scene? I'm still waiting for Sundance to admit that they pillaged the NA scene for all it was worth and left us a rotting corpse once it wouldn't make them anymore money. Won't watch another MLG production (and will actively steer my friends that are getting into ESPORTS away) until they do.
Sad for Axslav and Axeltoss, but I'm sure they'll find other work. WCS kind of shrunk the need for casters, but there are always production positions/Dota2 stuff to do. Dota2 is growing, and it doesn't look like it'll stop once you take into account all of the stability-longevity stuff that Valve has introduced.
This is more a news story for the implications of MLG's involvement in SC2, which hilariously MLGAdam was defending in a Dota2 thread just the other day.
I know it's trendy to hate MLG, but holy shit we could do with half the shit they're getting. They may have made questionable decisions and they may have screwed up (repeatedly), but their tournaments were unquestionably awesome. MLG Fall and MLG Winter 2013 are some of my favorite tournaments of all time. They weren't half-assed, they were awesome. All tournaments have flaws - Blizzcon did, Dreamhacks do, IEMs do - singling out MLG and claiming that they more than anyone else produced bad tournaments and somehow made sure it cost them as little as possible so that they could "pillage" is ridiculous.
Well I know it´s too romantic, but one should consider that it was SC2 (and the GSL partnership), that pulled MLG back on track in 2011 - nothing else. They would be dead and long forgotten if it wasn´t that. So in my oppinion, it´s pretty disappointing to see them drop SC2, especially in this fashion (slowly and quiet - there is still now official statement and no reason given why). I mean if they would say, there are not enough viewers for SC2 and they are losing money with it, we could at least understand it somehow. But there is nothing but pulling the plug silently.
The reason why SC2 isn't at Columbus is stated several times in this thread...
I swear people just hear what they want and ignore the rest.
You might as well believe in Santa Claus, if you believe, that this is the true reason
Sorry, I do believe them. I guess I'm not a cynic like most of the Internet. And you were still 100%, wrong, because they were not silent on the subject.
On November 14 2013 03:38 GameHeart wrote: These guys are both great, I hope someone picks them up to do regular casting again.
I don´t think so. There is no need for more casters out there (besides for the very big tournaments). Although they might be good at analysing I feel like they lack of "excitement". I might feel this way because of the way the MLG content was produced but still. If I compare them to the major casters like Apollo, Artosis, Khaldor, Kaelaris, Day 9, Wolf ... or even the "smaller" ones like Take or Mori (yeah I absolutely love his casting), they don´t stand a "chance.
Nevertheless I wish them the best of luck in the future!
A lot of people greatly appreciated their casting. Your opinion is as valid as anyone else's, but saying that they don't stand a chance is probably pretty far off.
On November 14 2013 03:38 GameHeart wrote: These guys are both great, I hope someone picks them up to do regular casting again.
I don´t think so. There is no need for more casters out there (besides for the very big tournaments). Although they might be good at analysing I feel like they lack of "excitement". I might feel this way because of the way the MLG content was produced but still. If I compare them to the major casters like Apollo, Artosis, Khaldor, Kaelaris, Day 9, Wolf ... or even the "smaller" ones like Take or Mori (yeah I absolutely love his casting), they don´t stand a "chance.
Nevertheless I wish them the best of luck in the future!
A lot of people greatly appreciated their casting. Your opinion is as valid as anyone else's, but saying that they don't stand a chance is probably pretty far off.
Nah, I did not want to be mean or sth like that. And I was not referring to their talent or knowledge! What I am trying to say is, that if I have the choice they are probably the "last" option I would choose (or I did choose). Which does not mean that they are bad!
On November 14 2013 04:19 LongShot27 wrote: Man, this sucks, say what you will about their casting but they did every event they could, from dreamhack down to the smallest tournaments you could find. I was lucky enough to play on stream with MLG and it was awesome. This is a real shame.
They did a lot of community stuff too. Also streamed their own games and "drank water" on stream.
MLG has revenue and brings in a profit. SC2 did not make sense from a business sense. New-er games with excited developers and communities do make business sense, and MLG supports those. Simple and logical!
I'm a big fan of the Axes, so I am anxious to see who picks them up and where they go. Axslav especially impressed me because he had some great insight into some of the nitty gritty that I never saw explained elsewhere.
Axslav and Axeltoss are easily one of the most likable casting duos; hopefully they get assimilated somewhere else or just go independent as they more or less were.
MLG just spent too much money from the beginning on SC2. They shouldnt have set the standard so high, flying in Koreans, provide 4 streams with very famous caster etc. was maybe a bit too much. MLG burned a lot of capital in the hope for massive growth in SC2 and by trying to keep up with IPL4 and NASL, instead they should have looked at the ESL on how to run stuff sustainably.
On November 14 2013 05:57 Mauldo wrote: SC2 was gone from Columbus anyway, so this is merely MLG finally being honest with us and admitting that they're completely dropping SC2.
Oh noes, where will we ever find another company willing to half-ass tournaments while in the next breath promising that they care about our NA scene? I'm still waiting for Sundance to admit that they pillaged the NA scene for all it was worth and left us a rotting corpse once it wouldn't make them anymore money. Won't watch another MLG production (and will actively steer my friends that are getting into ESPORTS away) until they do.
Sad for Axslav and Axeltoss, but I'm sure they'll find other work. WCS kind of shrunk the need for casters, but there are always production positions/Dota2 stuff to do. Dota2 is growing, and it doesn't look like it'll stop once you take into account all of the stability-longevity stuff that Valve has introduced.
This is more a news story for the implications of MLG's involvement in SC2, which hilariously MLGAdam was defending in a Dota2 thread just the other day.
I know it's trendy to hate MLG, but holy shit we could do with half the shit they're getting. They may have made questionable decisions and they may have screwed up (repeatedly), but their tournaments were unquestionably awesome. MLG Fall and MLG Winter 2013 are some of my favorite tournaments of all time. They weren't half-assed, they were awesome. All tournaments have flaws - Blizzcon did, Dreamhacks do, IEMs do - singling out MLG and claiming that they more than anyone else produced bad tournaments and somehow made sure it cost them as little as possible so that they could "pillage" is ridiculous.
Zealously biased towards those two tournaments because Life won them both don't be fooled.
But I agree, people do love to shit on MLG tournaments, and yet they were some of the best weekend tournaments out there.
and to clarify, mlg only had 5000 spectators in 2010 until sc2 make them grow. and now they are leaving sc2.
Wow, some tumbler blog that freely admits to using the service themselves, how damning is that. That some fact finding right there, super reputable, very informative and clearly FACT. Clearly this master of tumbler has dug up some shady business and nefarious deeds.
Man, these MLG haters are the best. The endless amount of non-sense they will dig up just to try to justify their internet outrage. MLG is not without flaws, but no one in Esports is.
On November 14 2013 05:57 Mauldo wrote: SC2 was gone from Columbus anyway, so this is merely MLG finally being honest with us and admitting that they're completely dropping SC2.
Oh noes, where will we ever find another company willing to half-ass tournaments while in the next breath promising that they care about our NA scene? I'm still waiting for Sundance to admit that they pillaged the NA scene for all it was worth and left us a rotting corpse once it wouldn't make them anymore money. Won't watch another MLG production (and will actively steer my friends that are getting into ESPORTS away) until they do.
Sad for Axslav and Axeltoss, but I'm sure they'll find other work. WCS kind of shrunk the need for casters, but there are always production positions/Dota2 stuff to do. Dota2 is growing, and it doesn't look like it'll stop once you take into account all of the stability-longevity stuff that Valve has introduced.
This is more a news story for the implications of MLG's involvement in SC2, which hilariously MLGAdam was defending in a Dota2 thread just the other day.
I know it's trendy to hate MLG, but holy shit we could do with half the shit they're getting. They may have made questionable decisions and they may have screwed up (repeatedly), but their tournaments were unquestionably awesome. MLG Fall and MLG Winter 2013 are some of my favorite tournaments of all time. They weren't half-assed, they were awesome. All tournaments have flaws - Blizzcon did, Dreamhacks do, IEMs do - singling out MLG and claiming that they more than anyone else produced bad tournaments and somehow made sure it cost them as little as possible so that they could "pillage" is ridiculous.
Zealously biased towards those two tournaments because Life won them both don't be fooled.
But I agree, people do love to shit on MLG tournaments, and yet they were some of the best weekend tournaments out there.
People forget that and just move on to their entitled non-sense. Its not even the entire community, but a small minority that just loves to whine and pitchfork anything they can.(damn, I miss SotG)
Wow, some tumbler blog that freely admits to using the service themselves, how damning is that. That some fact finding right there, super reputable, very informative and clearly FACT. Clearly this master of tumbler has dug up some shady business and nefarious deeds.
Wow, some tumbler blog that freely admits to using the service themselves, how damning is that. That some fact finding right there, super reputable, very informative and clearly FACT. Clearly this master of tumbler has dug up some shady business and nefarious deeds.
Because its not what you said it is, buying followers. No one is paid to follow you. Its advertising for twitter. What you is only partly true if you stretch the meaning of the word buying.
Good to see them leave MLG. MLG is extremely selfish, but sucks to see that there will be less events to watch if SC2/Blizz/WCS and MLG don't work together anymore.
Shame to see it go, they were really starting to grow on me. But it was weird to see an outfit like MLG basically doing community casting, was never going to last. I used to love to fall asleep to imba, playhems etc. They were filling that void for a while.
Wow, some tumbler blog that freely admits to using the service themselves, how damning is that. That some fact finding right there, super reputable, very informative and clearly FACT. Clearly this master of tumbler has dug up some shady business and nefarious deeds.
you are really cute. first you say:
Just a bunch of bull shit you made up.
and now you say, hey, it's not that bad.
Because its not what you said it is, buying followers. No one is paid to follow you. Its advertising for twitter. What you is only partly true if you stretch the meaning of the word buying.
Having only seen that blog now (2 years later) I'm actually confused as to why RedEye wanted to post that in the first place. Looks to me like the service is just like the basic twitter "hey, you like this, why not follow this as well?". That's just advertising, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. It's also exactly as p6 says, not what the original guy said it was (buying twitter followers).
MLG gave us a starting point, and there's nothing saying they wont be back. They're a business and need to make money where they can. Axeltoss and Axslav with both be fine, they'll find something new, and they were given a huge opportunity by MLG in the first place.
Stop ragging on MLG for this, they've given more than they've gotten and they've decided they can't continue in this vein any longer at this time. Chill the hell out.
People crying about MLG, guess what? You can't make money out of hosting Starcraft 2 tournaments. You think you are entitled to MLG throwing money down the drain just to entertain you?
Sad to see one of my favorite channels ending and two of my favorite casters leaving. Thanks axbros for entertainment, it was fun drinking with you ! And thanks MLG for giving opportunity to see these fellows.
Wow, some tumbler blog that freely admits to using the service themselves, how damning is that. That some fact finding right there, super reputable, very informative and clearly FACT. Clearly this master of tumbler has dug up some shady business and nefarious deeds.
you are really cute. first you say:
Just a bunch of bull shit you made up.
and now you say, hey, it's not that bad.
Because its not what you said it is, buying followers. No one is paid to follow you. Its advertising for twitter. What you is only partly true if you stretch the meaning of the word buying.
I'm a bit confused by that site, but from what I can gather, you can pay to have random people follow you. And apparently it worked quite nicely, tripling his followers over the course of 2 months.
Just shows that twitter follower numbers are to be taken with a gigantic grain of salt.
On November 15 2013 03:35 Trowa127 wrote: People crying about MLG, guess what? You can't make money out of hosting Starcraft 2 tournaments. You think you are entitled to MLG throwing money down the drain just to entertain you?
I'm so glad we have Dreamhack and ESL to waste money on us for free!
On November 15 2013 03:35 Trowa127 wrote: People crying about MLG, guess what? You can't make money out of hosting Starcraft 2 tournaments. You think you are entitled to MLG throwing money down the drain just to entertain you?
Uhm, the whole point of MLG is to entertain people...? If they stop supporting the stuff I enjoy, I stop supporting them. Easy as that. Do they care about that? Probably not, they evaluated the situation and came to the conclusion that it does not generate enough revenue/viewers when they produce a SC2 tournament in the current situation. This business decision and the the icy way with which it was not communicated did burn some bridges with the SC2 community, though, which may or may not hurt them in the future. We'll see.
On November 13 2013 19:41 diwurn wrote: That's it for MLG and SC2 I guess... Hope Axeltoss and Axslav will find a new home!
yep. I wouldn´t expect MLG to pick up SC2 again unless it gets an unforseen boost in fanbase.
I don't think its about the fanbase/viewer numbers. Sure, Dota2 probably gets more viewers, but what Dota 2 has to offer is something that benefits MLG as well. For example, ticket sales to increase prize pools (like with this upcoming tournament), which makes the tournament even bigger.
Wasn't there some discussion awhile back about MLG having to pay to Blizzard for hosting tournaments?
Yes, though that has been refuted by MLG, if I remember correctly.
Then again, MLG said they initially cancelled SC2 from one of their events because Red Bull already signed up an event for that date, and you can't have 2 SC2 events at the same weekend. And the Red Bulle vent turned out to be an 8 player invitational. Soo.. Blizzard is completely fine with giving up a huge MLG tournament for an 8 player invitational, just because the latter was there first? And MLG is completely fine with that, too? Something just didn't add up, and it seemed like MLG used that as a convenient excuse (whether true or not) to ditch SC2 as a whole.
The impression I got was that Blizzard doesn't play favorites and doesn't try to make events move to get out of each others way. They don't want to take the place of events communicating with each other.
I said this before in a Dota 2 thread. MLG might come back to SC2, but right now they are taking a break. The community is doing the same. The Dota 2 community, though critical, has been overwhelmingly excited about the first big LAN in NA since TI3 and MLG is really doubling down on that. Both MLG and the SC2 community need to decide if they want to be together and not take the other for granted. I think a clean slate is best for both sides and MLG can see where they fit in after Blizzard announced WCS 2014.
But does that make any sense? Maybe I'm just dense here, but if I were Blizzard and I'd find out that a tournament with hundreds of participants and thousands of live viewers could not happen because of an 8 player invitational, I sure as hell would try to see what I can do to make both happen instead of saying "Eh, bad luck, better tell us your dates earlier next time!".
I'm not trying to say that MLG is the SC2-hating devil. But I do find the official reasoning for dropping SC2 to be rather.. odd, both from MLG's point of view as well as Blizzard's.
You would be shocked how little power Blizzard has at the end of the day to force another business to do something. People act like they are all powerful and control all of SC2, but they can't make anyone move an event to another date. Plus the venues that were rented costs thousands(sometimes tens of thousands) of dollars just to secure for a weekend. It also needs to be done months and months in advance, sometimes a full year. And you can't get that money back. Once these events are booked, there might be nothing Blizzard can do to change the dates. And at that point, what do they do? Tell Redbull they can't show SC2 at their SC2 only event? Sometimes there is no good solution and you just take the best of the terrible choices you have.
Allowing both events to take place seems like the obvious thing to do here, and only Blizzard could make that happen, since it is Blizzard in the first place that requires events to basically get permission before they take place.
And your argument actually goes both ways: Everything has to be planned and paid for and worked for months in advance. You think MLG would just give up their main game for one of their big events just like that, just because an 8 player invitational happened to be on the same weekend? Wouldn't it be a huge deal to have to change plans, etc. due to the scheduling conflict?
That is exactly what they did. They have a good relationship with Red Bull and decided to not step on their toes and just not have SC2 at this event. It's really not that crazy, it's really bad business to make the fans choose. They can always have SC2 at another event.
I just cannot wrap my head around the idea that "Good relationship with Red Bull" is more important than "Main event of one of our big events". Of course I'm not MLG, and I might be missing something here. And I might be entirely wrong, too.
But to me it just feels that there was way more going on in the background, and that MLG was neither surprised nor entirely unhappy about having to drop SC2. And that they did not pick it up again and now let go of their SC2 casters just confirms to me that they are not planning to return to the game in the near or intermediate future.
You forget that it's Blizzard's decision to allow both tournaments to run at the same time. It seems like they didn't allow it. MLG literally isn't allowed to run an SC2 tournament if Blizzard isn't allowing them.
yep. I wouldn´t expect MLG to pick up SC2 again unless it gets an unforseen boost in fanbase.
I don't think its about the fanbase/viewer numbers. Sure, Dota2 probably gets more viewers, but what Dota 2 has to offer is something that benefits MLG as well. For example, ticket sales to increase prize pools (like with this upcoming tournament), which makes the tournament even bigger.
Wasn't there some discussion awhile back about MLG having to pay to Blizzard for hosting tournaments?
Yes, though that has been refuted by MLG, if I remember correctly.
Then again, MLG said they initially cancelled SC2 from one of their events because Red Bull already signed up an event for that date, and you can't have 2 SC2 events at the same weekend. And the Red Bulle vent turned out to be an 8 player invitational. Soo.. Blizzard is completely fine with giving up a huge MLG tournament for an 8 player invitational, just because the latter was there first? And MLG is completely fine with that, too? Something just didn't add up, and it seemed like MLG used that as a convenient excuse (whether true or not) to ditch SC2 as a whole.
The impression I got was that Blizzard doesn't play favorites and doesn't try to make events move to get out of each others way. They don't want to take the place of events communicating with each other.
I said this before in a Dota 2 thread. MLG might come back to SC2, but right now they are taking a break. The community is doing the same. The Dota 2 community, though critical, has been overwhelmingly excited about the first big LAN in NA since TI3 and MLG is really doubling down on that. Both MLG and the SC2 community need to decide if they want to be together and not take the other for granted. I think a clean slate is best for both sides and MLG can see where they fit in after Blizzard announced WCS 2014.
But does that make any sense? Maybe I'm just dense here, but if I were Blizzard and I'd find out that a tournament with hundreds of participants and thousands of live viewers could not happen because of an 8 player invitational, I sure as hell would try to see what I can do to make both happen instead of saying "Eh, bad luck, better tell us your dates earlier next time!".
I'm not trying to say that MLG is the SC2-hating devil. But I do find the official reasoning for dropping SC2 to be rather.. odd, both from MLG's point of view as well as Blizzard's.
You would be shocked how little power Blizzard has at the end of the day to force another business to do something. People act like they are all powerful and control all of SC2, but they can't make anyone move an event to another date. Plus the venues that were rented costs thousands(sometimes tens of thousands) of dollars just to secure for a weekend. It also needs to be done months and months in advance, sometimes a full year. And you can't get that money back. Once these events are booked, there might be nothing Blizzard can do to change the dates. And at that point, what do they do? Tell Redbull they can't show SC2 at their SC2 only event? Sometimes there is no good solution and you just take the best of the terrible choices you have.
Allowing both events to take place seems like the obvious thing to do here, and only Blizzard could make that happen, since it is Blizzard in the first place that requires events to basically get permission before they take place.
And your argument actually goes both ways: Everything has to be planned and paid for and worked for months in advance. You think MLG would just give up their main game for one of their big events just like that, just because an 8 player invitational happened to be on the same weekend? Wouldn't it be a huge deal to have to change plans, etc. due to the scheduling conflict?
That is exactly what they did. They have a good relationship with Red Bull and decided to not step on their toes and just not have SC2 at this event. It's really not that crazy, it's really bad business to make the fans choose. They can always have SC2 at another event.
I just cannot wrap my head around the idea that "Good relationship with Red Bull" is more important than "Main event of one of our big events". Of course I'm not MLG, and I might be missing something here. And I might be entirely wrong, too.
But to me it just feels that there was way more going on in the background, and that MLG was neither surprised nor entirely unhappy about having to drop SC2. And that they did not pick it up again and now let go of their SC2 casters just confirms to me that they are not planning to return to the game in the near or intermediate future.
You forget that it's Blizzard's decision to allow both tournaments to run at the same time. It seems like they didn't allow it. MLG literally isn't allowed to run an SC2 tournament if Blizzard isn't allowing them.
And I was arguing that it would also have been in Blizzard's best interest to keep SC2 at MLG. I hope I don't need to explain why.
On November 14 2013 10:43 Inferior wrote: Good to see them leave MLG. MLG is extremely selfish, but sucks to see that there will be less events to watch if SC2/Blizz/WCS and MLG don't work together anymore.
The fact they are selfish allows MLG to make money and actually pay their players. I'd rather stick to an organization that's selfish and can keep promises to their players instead of those "good" organizations that make players wait a year for payment. *cough* ESL *cough*
yep. I wouldn´t expect MLG to pick up SC2 again unless it gets an unforseen boost in fanbase.
I don't think its about the fanbase/viewer numbers. Sure, Dota2 probably gets more viewers, but what Dota 2 has to offer is something that benefits MLG as well. For example, ticket sales to increase prize pools (like with this upcoming tournament), which makes the tournament even bigger.
Wasn't there some discussion awhile back about MLG having to pay to Blizzard for hosting tournaments?
Yes, though that has been refuted by MLG, if I remember correctly.
Then again, MLG said they initially cancelled SC2 from one of their events because Red Bull already signed up an event for that date, and you can't have 2 SC2 events at the same weekend. And the Red Bulle vent turned out to be an 8 player invitational. Soo.. Blizzard is completely fine with giving up a huge MLG tournament for an 8 player invitational, just because the latter was there first? And MLG is completely fine with that, too? Something just didn't add up, and it seemed like MLG used that as a convenient excuse (whether true or not) to ditch SC2 as a whole.
The impression I got was that Blizzard doesn't play favorites and doesn't try to make events move to get out of each others way. They don't want to take the place of events communicating with each other.
I said this before in a Dota 2 thread. MLG might come back to SC2, but right now they are taking a break. The community is doing the same. The Dota 2 community, though critical, has been overwhelmingly excited about the first big LAN in NA since TI3 and MLG is really doubling down on that. Both MLG and the SC2 community need to decide if they want to be together and not take the other for granted. I think a clean slate is best for both sides and MLG can see where they fit in after Blizzard announced WCS 2014.
But does that make any sense? Maybe I'm just dense here, but if I were Blizzard and I'd find out that a tournament with hundreds of participants and thousands of live viewers could not happen because of an 8 player invitational, I sure as hell would try to see what I can do to make both happen instead of saying "Eh, bad luck, better tell us your dates earlier next time!".
I'm not trying to say that MLG is the SC2-hating devil. But I do find the official reasoning for dropping SC2 to be rather.. odd, both from MLG's point of view as well as Blizzard's.
You would be shocked how little power Blizzard has at the end of the day to force another business to do something. People act like they are all powerful and control all of SC2, but they can't make anyone move an event to another date. Plus the venues that were rented costs thousands(sometimes tens of thousands) of dollars just to secure for a weekend. It also needs to be done months and months in advance, sometimes a full year. And you can't get that money back. Once these events are booked, there might be nothing Blizzard can do to change the dates. And at that point, what do they do? Tell Redbull they can't show SC2 at their SC2 only event? Sometimes there is no good solution and you just take the best of the terrible choices you have.
Allowing both events to take place seems like the obvious thing to do here, and only Blizzard could make that happen, since it is Blizzard in the first place that requires events to basically get permission before they take place.
And your argument actually goes both ways: Everything has to be planned and paid for and worked for months in advance. You think MLG would just give up their main game for one of their big events just like that, just because an 8 player invitational happened to be on the same weekend? Wouldn't it be a huge deal to have to change plans, etc. due to the scheduling conflict?
That is exactly what they did. They have a good relationship with Red Bull and decided to not step on their toes and just not have SC2 at this event. It's really not that crazy, it's really bad business to make the fans choose. They can always have SC2 at another event.
I just cannot wrap my head around the idea that "Good relationship with Red Bull" is more important than "Main event of one of our big events". Of course I'm not MLG, and I might be missing something here. And I might be entirely wrong, too.
But to me it just feels that there was way more going on in the background, and that MLG was neither surprised nor entirely unhappy about having to drop SC2. And that they did not pick it up again and now let go of their SC2 casters just confirms to me that they are not planning to return to the game in the near or intermediate future.
You forget that it's Blizzard's decision to allow both tournaments to run at the same time. It seems like they didn't allow it. MLG literally isn't allowed to run an SC2 tournament if Blizzard isn't allowing them.
yah except DH:W and IEM are running at the same time this month
I don't think its about the fanbase/viewer numbers. Sure, Dota2 probably gets more viewers, but what Dota 2 has to offer is something that benefits MLG as well. For example, ticket sales to increase prize pools (like with this upcoming tournament), which makes the tournament even bigger.
Wasn't there some discussion awhile back about MLG having to pay to Blizzard for hosting tournaments?
Yes, though that has been refuted by MLG, if I remember correctly.
Then again, MLG said they initially cancelled SC2 from one of their events because Red Bull already signed up an event for that date, and you can't have 2 SC2 events at the same weekend. And the Red Bulle vent turned out to be an 8 player invitational. Soo.. Blizzard is completely fine with giving up a huge MLG tournament for an 8 player invitational, just because the latter was there first? And MLG is completely fine with that, too? Something just didn't add up, and it seemed like MLG used that as a convenient excuse (whether true or not) to ditch SC2 as a whole.
The impression I got was that Blizzard doesn't play favorites and doesn't try to make events move to get out of each others way. They don't want to take the place of events communicating with each other.
I said this before in a Dota 2 thread. MLG might come back to SC2, but right now they are taking a break. The community is doing the same. The Dota 2 community, though critical, has been overwhelmingly excited about the first big LAN in NA since TI3 and MLG is really doubling down on that. Both MLG and the SC2 community need to decide if they want to be together and not take the other for granted. I think a clean slate is best for both sides and MLG can see where they fit in after Blizzard announced WCS 2014.
But does that make any sense? Maybe I'm just dense here, but if I were Blizzard and I'd find out that a tournament with hundreds of participants and thousands of live viewers could not happen because of an 8 player invitational, I sure as hell would try to see what I can do to make both happen instead of saying "Eh, bad luck, better tell us your dates earlier next time!".
I'm not trying to say that MLG is the SC2-hating devil. But I do find the official reasoning for dropping SC2 to be rather.. odd, both from MLG's point of view as well as Blizzard's.
You would be shocked how little power Blizzard has at the end of the day to force another business to do something. People act like they are all powerful and control all of SC2, but they can't make anyone move an event to another date. Plus the venues that were rented costs thousands(sometimes tens of thousands) of dollars just to secure for a weekend. It also needs to be done months and months in advance, sometimes a full year. And you can't get that money back. Once these events are booked, there might be nothing Blizzard can do to change the dates. And at that point, what do they do? Tell Redbull they can't show SC2 at their SC2 only event? Sometimes there is no good solution and you just take the best of the terrible choices you have.
Allowing both events to take place seems like the obvious thing to do here, and only Blizzard could make that happen, since it is Blizzard in the first place that requires events to basically get permission before they take place.
And your argument actually goes both ways: Everything has to be planned and paid for and worked for months in advance. You think MLG would just give up their main game for one of their big events just like that, just because an 8 player invitational happened to be on the same weekend? Wouldn't it be a huge deal to have to change plans, etc. due to the scheduling conflict?
That is exactly what they did. They have a good relationship with Red Bull and decided to not step on their toes and just not have SC2 at this event. It's really not that crazy, it's really bad business to make the fans choose. They can always have SC2 at another event.
I just cannot wrap my head around the idea that "Good relationship with Red Bull" is more important than "Main event of one of our big events". Of course I'm not MLG, and I might be missing something here. And I might be entirely wrong, too.
But to me it just feels that there was way more going on in the background, and that MLG was neither surprised nor entirely unhappy about having to drop SC2. And that they did not pick it up again and now let go of their SC2 casters just confirms to me that they are not planning to return to the game in the near or intermediate future.
You forget that it's Blizzard's decision to allow both tournaments to run at the same time. It seems like they didn't allow it. MLG literally isn't allowed to run an SC2 tournament if Blizzard isn't allowing them.
And I was arguing that it would also have been in Blizzard's best interest to keep SC2 at MLG. I hope I don't need to explain why.
You're acting like you know what Blizzard's interests are. But what is certain is that WCS > All is Blizzard's interest. It just seems like Blizzard could give two sh*ts about MLG.
On November 13 2013 20:22 Conti wrote: [quote] Yes, though that has been refuted by MLG, if I remember correctly.
Then again, MLG said they initially cancelled SC2 from one of their events because Red Bull already signed up an event for that date, and you can't have 2 SC2 events at the same weekend. And the Red Bulle vent turned out to be an 8 player invitational. Soo.. Blizzard is completely fine with giving up a huge MLG tournament for an 8 player invitational, just because the latter was there first? And MLG is completely fine with that, too? Something just didn't add up, and it seemed like MLG used that as a convenient excuse (whether true or not) to ditch SC2 as a whole.
The impression I got was that Blizzard doesn't play favorites and doesn't try to make events move to get out of each others way. They don't want to take the place of events communicating with each other.
I said this before in a Dota 2 thread. MLG might come back to SC2, but right now they are taking a break. The community is doing the same. The Dota 2 community, though critical, has been overwhelmingly excited about the first big LAN in NA since TI3 and MLG is really doubling down on that. Both MLG and the SC2 community need to decide if they want to be together and not take the other for granted. I think a clean slate is best for both sides and MLG can see where they fit in after Blizzard announced WCS 2014.
But does that make any sense? Maybe I'm just dense here, but if I were Blizzard and I'd find out that a tournament with hundreds of participants and thousands of live viewers could not happen because of an 8 player invitational, I sure as hell would try to see what I can do to make both happen instead of saying "Eh, bad luck, better tell us your dates earlier next time!".
I'm not trying to say that MLG is the SC2-hating devil. But I do find the official reasoning for dropping SC2 to be rather.. odd, both from MLG's point of view as well as Blizzard's.
You would be shocked how little power Blizzard has at the end of the day to force another business to do something. People act like they are all powerful and control all of SC2, but they can't make anyone move an event to another date. Plus the venues that were rented costs thousands(sometimes tens of thousands) of dollars just to secure for a weekend. It also needs to be done months and months in advance, sometimes a full year. And you can't get that money back. Once these events are booked, there might be nothing Blizzard can do to change the dates. And at that point, what do they do? Tell Redbull they can't show SC2 at their SC2 only event? Sometimes there is no good solution and you just take the best of the terrible choices you have.
Allowing both events to take place seems like the obvious thing to do here, and only Blizzard could make that happen, since it is Blizzard in the first place that requires events to basically get permission before they take place.
And your argument actually goes both ways: Everything has to be planned and paid for and worked for months in advance. You think MLG would just give up their main game for one of their big events just like that, just because an 8 player invitational happened to be on the same weekend? Wouldn't it be a huge deal to have to change plans, etc. due to the scheduling conflict?
That is exactly what they did. They have a good relationship with Red Bull and decided to not step on their toes and just not have SC2 at this event. It's really not that crazy, it's really bad business to make the fans choose. They can always have SC2 at another event.
I just cannot wrap my head around the idea that "Good relationship with Red Bull" is more important than "Main event of one of our big events". Of course I'm not MLG, and I might be missing something here. And I might be entirely wrong, too.
But to me it just feels that there was way more going on in the background, and that MLG was neither surprised nor entirely unhappy about having to drop SC2. And that they did not pick it up again and now let go of their SC2 casters just confirms to me that they are not planning to return to the game in the near or intermediate future.
You forget that it's Blizzard's decision to allow both tournaments to run at the same time. It seems like they didn't allow it. MLG literally isn't allowed to run an SC2 tournament if Blizzard isn't allowing them.
And I was arguing that it would also have been in Blizzard's best interest to keep SC2 at MLG. I hope I don't need to explain why.
You're acting like you know what Blizzard's interests are. But what is certain is that WCS > All is Blizzard's interest. It just seems like Blizzard could give two sh*ts about MLG.
Of course I'm acting like I know what Blizzard's interests are. And so are you, right there in your own post. How else are we going to discuss this?
On November 15 2013 07:03 Dodgin wrote: yah except DH:W and IEM are running at the same time this month
oh and WCG
did you realize that DH and IEM happen at different hours? I'm not sure about WCG, I guess that Activision-Blizzard change the rules after the MLG-RedBull incident?
On November 15 2013 03:35 Trowa127 wrote: People crying about MLG, guess what? You can't make money out of hosting Starcraft 2 tournaments. You think you are entitled to MLG throwing money down the drain just to entertain you?
Uhm, the whole point of MLG is to entertain people...? If they stop supporting the stuff I enjoy, I stop supporting them. Easy as that. Do they care about that? Probably not, they evaluated the situation and came to the conclusion that it does not generate enough revenue/viewers when they produce a SC2 tournament in the current situation. This business decision and the the icy way with which it was not communicated did burn some bridges with the SC2 community, though, which may or may not hurt them in the future. We'll see.
Well, it's not like the SC2 community doesn't do its best to burn every bridge it finds either.
On November 15 2013 07:03 Dodgin wrote: yah except DH:W and IEM are running at the same time this month
oh and WCG
did you realize that DH and IEM happen at different hours? I'm not sure about WCG, I guess that Activision-Blizzard change the rules after the MLG-RedBull incident?
If my memories are correct MLG didn't even register for a tournament that weekend in the first place.
On November 15 2013 07:03 Dodgin wrote: yah except DH:W and IEM are running at the same time this month
oh and WCG
did you realize that DH and IEM happen at different hours? I'm not sure about WCG, I guess that Activision-Blizzard change the rules after the MLG-RedBull incident?
If my memories are correct MLG didn't even register for a tournament that weekend in the first place.
There is no rule, MLG opted to not have SC2 at the even, since Redbull was running one the same day.
On November 15 2013 03:35 Trowa127 wrote: People crying about MLG, guess what? You can't make money out of hosting Starcraft 2 tournaments. You think you are entitled to MLG throwing money down the drain just to entertain you?
Uhm, the whole point of MLG is to entertain people...? If they stop supporting the stuff I enjoy, I stop supporting them. Easy as that. Do they care about that? Probably not, they evaluated the situation and came to the conclusion that it does not generate enough revenue/viewers when they produce a SC2 tournament in the current situation. This business decision and the the icy way with which it was not communicated did burn some bridges with the SC2 community, though, which may or may not hurt them in the future. We'll see.
The whole point of MLG isn't to entertain people, its to make money. They aren't doing this out of the goodness of their own heart. They have been supporting SC2 for a long time, you guys act like they did one failed SC2 tournament and decided to never do one again - MLG tried a lot of things to make it work. There is no money in SC2, its not a popular game and it isn't accessible to casual gamers - I'm surprised the failure of so many high profile tournaments to break even (IPL lol, so many fanboys thought that was going to go well didn't they - and all that happened was a 6 figure loss per event) hasn't made people wake up to that fact. If the SC2 community wanted MLG to host SC2 tournaments then they would have paid for them and not lost the plot when they put a PPV option in (if anyone remembers *that* thread).
To the guy talking about ESL - they get away with it because they pay people years late (edited). The only people who can run a decent tournament are doing it because they own the game (Blizzard) or have a ton of money to spend on advertising (Red Bull).
On November 15 2013 03:35 Trowa127 wrote: People crying about MLG, guess what? You can't make money out of hosting Starcraft 2 tournaments. You think you are entitled to MLG throwing money down the drain just to entertain you?
Uhm, the whole point of MLG is to entertain people...? If they stop supporting the stuff I enjoy, I stop supporting them. Easy as that. Do they care about that? Probably not, they evaluated the situation and came to the conclusion that it does not generate enough revenue/viewers when they produce a SC2 tournament in the current situation. This business decision and the the icy way with which it was not communicated did burn some bridges with the SC2 community, though, which may or may not hurt them in the future. We'll see.
The whole point of MLG isn't to entertain people, its to make money. They aren't doing this out of the goodness of their own heart. They have been supporting SC2 for a long time, you guys act like they did one failed SC2 tournament and decided to never do one again - MLG tried a lot of things to make it work. There is no money in SC2, its not a popular game and it isn't accessible to casual gamers - I'm surprised the failure of so many high profile tournaments to break even (IPL lol, so many fanboys thought that was going to go well didn't they - and all that happened was a 6 figure loss per event) hasn't made people wake up to that fact. If the SC2 community wanted MLG to host SC2 tournaments then they would have paid for them and not lost the plot when they put a PPV option in (if anyone remembers *that* thread).
To the guy talking about ESL - they get away with it because they don't pay people. Simple as. The only people who can run a decent tournament are doing it because they own the game (Blizzard) or have a ton of money to spend on advertising (Red Bull).
Dreamhack does good Starcraft tournaments, Homestroy cup is fun to watch as well. So other tournaments besides Blizzards own does well
On November 15 2013 03:35 Trowa127 wrote: People crying about MLG, guess what? You can't make money out of hosting Starcraft 2 tournaments. You think you are entitled to MLG throwing money down the drain just to entertain you?
Uhm, the whole point of MLG is to entertain people...? If they stop supporting the stuff I enjoy, I stop supporting them. Easy as that. Do they care about that? Probably not, they evaluated the situation and came to the conclusion that it does not generate enough revenue/viewers when they produce a SC2 tournament in the current situation. This business decision and the the icy way with which it was not communicated did burn some bridges with the SC2 community, though, which may or may not hurt them in the future. We'll see.
The whole point of MLG isn't to entertain people, its to make money. They aren't doing this out of the goodness of their own heart. They have been supporting SC2 for a long time, you guys act like they did one failed SC2 tournament and decided to never do one again - MLG tried a lot of things to make it work. There is no money in SC2, its not a popular game and it isn't accessible to casual gamers - I'm surprised the failure of so many high profile tournaments to break even (IPL lol, so many fanboys thought that was going to go well didn't they - and all that happened was a 6 figure loss per event) hasn't made people wake up to that fact. If the SC2 community wanted MLG to host SC2 tournaments then they would have paid for them and not lost the plot when they put a PPV option in (if anyone remembers *that* thread).
To the guy talking about ESL - they get away with it because they don't pay people. Simple as. The only people who can run a decent tournament are doing it because they own the game (Blizzard) or have a ton of money to spend on advertising (Red Bull).
It would be cool if people sometimes didn't pull things out of their ass to make it seem like they have any insight into the situation.
On November 15 2013 03:35 Trowa127 wrote: People crying about MLG, guess what? You can't make money out of hosting Starcraft 2 tournaments. You think you are entitled to MLG throwing money down the drain just to entertain you?
Uhm, the whole point of MLG is to entertain people...? If they stop supporting the stuff I enjoy, I stop supporting them. Easy as that. Do they care about that? Probably not, they evaluated the situation and came to the conclusion that it does not generate enough revenue/viewers when they produce a SC2 tournament in the current situation. This business decision and the the icy way with which it was not communicated did burn some bridges with the SC2 community, though, which may or may not hurt them in the future. We'll see.
The whole point of MLG isn't to entertain people, its to make money. They aren't doing this out of the goodness of their own heart. They have been supporting SC2 for a long time, you guys act like they did one failed SC2 tournament and decided to never do one again - MLG tried a lot of things to make it work. There is no money in SC2, its not a popular game and it isn't accessible to casual gamers - I'm surprised the failure of so many high profile tournaments to break even (IPL lol, so many fanboys thought that was going to go well didn't they - and all that happened was a 6 figure loss per event) hasn't made people wake up to that fact. If the SC2 community wanted MLG to host SC2 tournaments then they would have paid for them and not lost the plot when they put a PPV option in (if anyone remembers *that* thread).
To the guy talking about ESL - they get away with it because they don't pay people. Simple as. The only people who can run a decent tournament are doing it because they own the game (Blizzard) or have a ton of money to spend on advertising (Red Bull).
You are wrong on so many levels.
First of all, there were many factors involved in MLG pulling out from SC2, and low viewership definitely wasn't one of the bigger ones - MLG was one of the tournaments that got the most viewers, yet other tournaments like HSC, ASUS ROG, DH, IEM (and ESL's many other tournaments) etc seem to be doing fine. It was a variety of factors, which may include their business model, the many other events competing for air time, the bigger potential profit from Dota 2, overspending (they did fly in so many Koreans on their own money...etc).
As a casual gamer myself, I can assure you that SC2 is tons more viewer friendly than any MOBA. It does have a much smaller playerbase, but that's because a) RTS is not a popular genre; b) the game is frikkin expensive compared to any other PC title except CoD.
IPL had many other events apart from SC2. It wasn't just SC2 that got cancelled - the LoL event also got cancelled, and before you say that SC2 was going to be the main event, you are wrong. The fault definitely didn't lie with SC2's performance. IGN decided to change what they were doing, simple as - the people who took that decision, very likely, have absolutely no idea of the difference between SC2 and LoL or Call of Duty...
PPV is absolutely silly, if all the other content is free. and there is A LOT of content out there. Most people won't pay to watch an MLG event if a weekend later they can just watch a bigger and better DreamHack instead.
ESL had a cashflow problem a few years back, mainly due to sponsors not paying out on time. Also, just so you know, ESL is massive. They have tournaments for hundreds of games, and not just IEM. They took long to pay out tournaments for all titles. They cleaned up their act these past couple of years though, so you're completely incorrect.
"The only people who can run a tournament"? Do you really see any shortage of major or minor tournaments? We're in mid-November and there are at least NINE premier events to go for the rest of 2013: *HomeStory Cup *Red Bull Battlegrounds reamHack *IEM Singapore *WCG 2013 *ASUS ROG Germany 2013 *Hot6ix Cup *GSTL *Acer TeamStory Cup
And that's not to mention ProLeague being announced soon, the televised league in Taiwan and the hundreds of smaller tournaments like the Dailymotion Cup organised by Millenium, or TotalBiscuit's Shoutcraft America, the Fragbite Masters ($24k event), EPS in Germany, EG's SC2L, the dozens of well-funded tournaments in China...
On November 15 2013 03:35 Trowa127 wrote: People crying about MLG, guess what? You can't make money out of hosting Starcraft 2 tournaments. You think you are entitled to MLG throwing money down the drain just to entertain you?
Uhm, the whole point of MLG is to entertain people...? If they stop supporting the stuff I enjoy, I stop supporting them. Easy as that. Do they care about that? Probably not, they evaluated the situation and came to the conclusion that it does not generate enough revenue/viewers when they produce a SC2 tournament in the current situation. This business decision and the the icy way with which it was not communicated did burn some bridges with the SC2 community, though, which may or may not hurt them in the future. We'll see.
The whole point of MLG isn't to entertain people, its to make money. They aren't doing this out of the goodness of their own heart. They have been supporting SC2 for a long time, you guys act like they did one failed SC2 tournament and decided to never do one again - MLG tried a lot of things to make it work. There is no money in SC2, its not a popular game and it isn't accessible to casual gamers - I'm surprised the failure of so many high profile tournaments to break even (IPL lol, so many fanboys thought that was going to go well didn't they - and all that happened was a 6 figure loss per event) hasn't made people wake up to that fact. If the SC2 community wanted MLG to host SC2 tournaments then they would have paid for them and not lost the plot when they put a PPV option in (if anyone remembers *that* thread).
To the guy talking about ESL - they get away with it because they don't pay people. Simple as. The only people who can run a decent tournament are doing it because they own the game (Blizzard) or have a ton of money to spend on advertising (Red Bull).
On November 15 2013 03:35 Trowa127 wrote: People crying about MLG, guess what? You can't make money out of hosting Starcraft 2 tournaments. You think you are entitled to MLG throwing money down the drain just to entertain you?
Uhm, the whole point of MLG is to entertain people...? If they stop supporting the stuff I enjoy, I stop supporting them. Easy as that. Do they care about that? Probably not, they evaluated the situation and came to the conclusion that it does not generate enough revenue/viewers when they produce a SC2 tournament in the current situation. This business decision and the the icy way with which it was not communicated did burn some bridges with the SC2 community, though, which may or may not hurt them in the future. We'll see.
The whole point of MLG isn't to entertain people, its to make money. They aren't doing this out of the goodness of their own heart. They have been supporting SC2 for a long time, you guys act like they did one failed SC2 tournament and decided to never do one again - MLG tried a lot of things to make it work. There is no money in SC2, its not a popular game and it isn't accessible to casual gamers - I'm surprised the failure of so many high profile tournaments to break even (IPL lol, so many fanboys thought that was going to go well didn't they - and all that happened was a 6 figure loss per event) hasn't made people wake up to that fact. If the SC2 community wanted MLG to host SC2 tournaments then they would have paid for them and not lost the plot when they put a PPV option in (if anyone remembers *that* thread).
To the guy talking about ESL - they get away with it because they don't pay people. Simple as. The only people who can run a decent tournament are doing it because they own the game (Blizzard) or have a ton of money to spend on advertising (Red Bull).
You are wrong on so many levels.
First of all, there were many factors involved in MLG pulling out from SC2, and low viewership definitely wasn't one of the bigger ones - MLG was one of the tournaments that got the most viewers, yet other tournaments like HSC, ASUS ROG, DH, IEM (and ESL's many other tournaments) etc seem to be doing fine. It was a variety of factors, which may include their business model, the many other events competing for air time, the bigger potential profit from Dota 2, overspending (they did fly in so many Koreans on their own money...etc).
As a casual gamer myself, I can assure you that SC2 is tons more viewer friendly than any MOBA. It does have a much smaller playerbase, but that's because a) RTS is not a popular genre; b) the game is frikkin expensive compared to any other PC title except CoD.
IPL had many other events apart from SC2. It wasn't just SC2 that got cancelled - the LoL event also got cancelled, and before you say that SC2 was going to be the main event, you are wrong. The fault definitely didn't lie with SC2's performance. IGN decided to change what they were doing, simple as - the people who took that decision, very likely, have absolutely no idea of the difference between SC2 and LoL or Call of Duty...
PPV is absolutely silly, if all the other content is free. and there is A LOT of content out there. Most people won't pay to watch an MLG event if a weekend later they can just watch a bigger and better DreamHack instead.
ESL had a cashflow problem a few years back, mainly due to sponsors not paying out on time. Also, just so you know, ESL is massive. They have tournaments for hundreds of games, and not just IEM. They took long to pay out tournaments for all titles. They cleaned up their act these past couple of years though, so you're completely incorrect.
"The only people who can run a tournament"? Do you really see any shortage of major or minor tournaments? We're in mid-November and there are at least NINE premier events to go for the rest of 2013: *HomeStory Cup *Red Bull Battlegrounds reamHack *IEM Singapore *WCG 2013 *ASUS ROG Germany 2013 *Hot6ix Cup *GSTL *Acer TeamStory Cup
And that's not to mention ProLeague being announced soon, the televised league in Taiwan and the hundreds of smaller tournaments like the Dailymotion Cup organised by Millenium, or TotalBiscuit's Shoutcraft America, the Fragbite Masters ($24k event), EPS in Germany, EG's SC2L, the dozens of well-funded tournaments in China...
Do you even follow Starcraft 2?
The first IPL lost six figures and didn't feature League of Legends, they were losing money from day one! How can you say it wasn't SC2 when it started with just SC2 and was still losing a ton of money at that time? Madness! Secondly, the viewer numbers speak for themselves - you can't call a game that gets 50k max viewers for a tournament popular, it just isn't. I love SC2 but people have to accept reality, the only way is down from here - call me an idiot if you want, but we'll see where SC2 is compared to other games in a few years and I doubt its going to making any companies anything. The communities attitude to tournament organisers just shows this.
Other tournaments - Europe is a different case. Dreamhack has been around since 94 and gets a lot of help from volunteers who aren't paid, it wasn't 'made' by SC2 and is a very poor example now as it doesn't even rely on SC2 very much, and it will continue to thrive when SC2 is dead and gone. Totalbiscuit made his money elsewhere (something he admits). EG are a really well run organisation, just like Teamliquid and I never denied that. However, what I'm saying is look at the companies whose bread and butter is tournament organisation with (at least at one point in history) primary focus on SC2 - MLG, IPL, NASL - and see the trend. You'd have to be out of your mind to spend real money on an SC2 tournament if you aren't a team, company selling another product with money to burn, the games owner or an individual personality. No 'tournament organizer' in their right minds would touch SC2.
Hope that clarifies my comments. Not talking down SC2, just makes me sad to see people slating a company who threw a lot of money down the drain to entertain them.
On November 15 2013 07:03 Dodgin wrote: yah except DH:W and IEM are running at the same time this month
oh and WCG
did you realize that DH and IEM happen at different hours? I'm not sure about WCG, I guess that Activision-Blizzard change the rules after the MLG-RedBull incident?
If my memories are correct MLG didn't even register for a tournament that weekend in the first place.
There is no rule, MLG opted to not have SC2 at the even, since Redbull was running one the same day.
From the WCS 2014 thread: **Note that meeting the requirements listed above does not automatically grant you partner status -- we'd like to work with you directly to ensure your event fits well into the schedule and doesn't overlap other partner events.
On November 15 2013 07:03 Dodgin wrote: yah except DH:W and IEM are running at the same time this month
oh and WCG
did you realize that DH and IEM happen at different hours? I'm not sure about WCG, I guess that Activision-Blizzard change the rules after the MLG-RedBull incident?
If my memories are correct MLG didn't even register for a tournament that weekend in the first place.
There is no rule, MLG opted to not have SC2 at the even, since Redbull was running one the same day.
From the WCS 2014 thread: **Note that meeting the requirements listed above does not automatically grant you partner status -- we'd like to work with you directly to ensure your event fits well into the schedule and doesn't overlap other partner events.
no rule you say?
Thats for WCS, not for MLG and Redbull broadcasting in the same weekend. There has always been rules against broadcasting over WCS.
On November 15 2013 07:03 Dodgin wrote: yah except DH:W and IEM are running at the same time this month
oh and WCG
did you realize that DH and IEM happen at different hours? I'm not sure about WCG, I guess that Activision-Blizzard change the rules after the MLG-RedBull incident?
If my memories are correct MLG didn't even register for a tournament that weekend in the first place.
There is no rule, MLG opted to not have SC2 at the even, since Redbull was running one the same day.
From the WCS 2014 thread: **Note that meeting the requirements listed above does not automatically grant you partner status -- we'd like to work with you directly to ensure your event fits well into the schedule and doesn't overlap other partner events.
no rule you say?
Thats for WCS, not for MLG and Redbull broadcasting in the same weekend. There has always been rules against broadcasting over WCS.
worst excuse I have read "we'd like to work with you directly to ensure your event fits well into the schedule and doesn't overlap other PARTNER EVENTS" I do not see WCS exclusive anywhere
On November 15 2013 07:03 Dodgin wrote: yah except DH:W and IEM are running at the same time this month
oh and WCG
did you realize that DH and IEM happen at different hours? I'm not sure about WCG, I guess that Activision-Blizzard change the rules after the MLG-RedBull incident?
If my memories are correct MLG didn't even register for a tournament that weekend in the first place.
There is no rule, MLG opted to not have SC2 at the even, since Redbull was running one the same day.
From the WCS 2014 thread: **Note that meeting the requirements listed above does not automatically grant you partner status -- we'd like to work with you directly to ensure your event fits well into the schedule and doesn't overlap other partner events.
no rule you say?
Thats for WCS, not for MLG and Redbull broadcasting in the same weekend. There has always been rules against broadcasting over WCS.
worst excuse I have read "we'd like to work with you directly to ensure your event fits well into the schedule and doesn't overlap other PARTNER EVENTS" I do not see WCS exclusive anywhere
And that is for 2014 and and the information for that was released today. My post was made several days ago and was referencing something that happened months ago. One has nothing to do with the other.
EPT
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reamHack
