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On November 09 2013 07:45 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2013 07:42 las91 wrote:
I don't understand why David Kim equates "casual" with "stupid" or "poor observational skills".... A non pro football player can understand a really amazing play without having it be something they can do or recreate. I really don't get his point either. It seems that he's afraid that people will turn away if you have to explain a micro mechanic longer than 3 seconds... EDIT: Also I tried formatting the thread a little. I'm a complete newb when it comes to this so if you absoletely hate it, don't tell me because I might cry 
Your formatting was BAD! Now, go cry some more! >:D
+ Show Spoiler +
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On November 09 2013 07:21 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2013 07:04 LittLeD wrote:
David Kim answered the question about the 'Depth of Micro' video. His answer was that it draws back to the viability of moves, and that it should be easily viable when a 'cool' move is made that gets someone an advantage.
I'm not sure he actually addressed the bugs that were discussed in the video though I hate this answer by David Kim. I watched BW for around 10 years after I stopped playing it. The awesome micro moves are noticeable to viewers, even ones who have no idea how they're done and stopped playing long before they were discovered. I enjoyed watching such things as Fantasy's vulture micro, Jaedong's mutalisk micro and Leta's wraith micro without knowing the mechanics behind them. It was just that obvious that their micro was much better than their opponent's. It just looked cool.
Let's be honest here. What's the difference between watching Vulture micro compared to Reaper micro? BW Mutalisk stacking vs SC2 Mutalisk stacking? Wraith micro and Banshee micro?
They look identical to a lay-person, but all of the "amazement" is from in-depth knowledge about how awkward the actual micro management is.
Most of the amazing control in Pro BW wasn't from how amazing each play actually looked, but how "bad" the average unit control looked.
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I don't think I can properly express how much I hate this answer about the micro. It's completely ignorant of how casuals experienced BW. It was way, way easier to understand BW micro.
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My face while reading
*see carbot portraits and remastered BW music*
 
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I hope this was completely taken out of context. How is micro ever hard to understand
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Canada5565 Posts
Not looking good for LotV.
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On November 09 2013 07:58 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2013 07:39 dgwow wrote:On November 09 2013 07:09 Plexa wrote:On November 09 2013 07:04 LittLeD wrote:
David Kim answered the question about the 'Depth of Micro' video. His answer was that it draws back to the viability of moves, and that it should be easily viable when a 'cool' move is made that gets someone an advantage. What a cop out answer =[ Agreed, that seems like a real question dodge, there are many features that the players can't use or understand, the fact remains that the game should remain like that, easy to learn but difficult to master. Additionally, from a spectator's point of view, there are many things in the game that the audience currently doesn't understand on their own. However, they are able to understand it with the help of the community casters, whether that be Day9 on his dailies or Tastosis and many others in tournaments. Exactly! You can understand an awesome move when commentators are screaming and getting all hype. This answer makes me so mad rofl ._.
and its something casual players cant/wont do in your own games. but thats blizzard for you...easy to learn hard to master LOL
edit: the only thing that is good in this announcement is that they acknowledge bw music is superior
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Italy12248 Posts
They basically have absolutely no idea whatsoever of what made BW so great. They just kinda look at it and go "oh yeah that game turned out pretty well, cool" without trying to figure out WHY it's so fucking good.
David Kim gave the worst answer he could possibly have.
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I think this proves that as long as Kim is calling the shots, there won't be any real fundamental changes to SC2 as we know it. We're probably going to have to start living with that reality.
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Remastered music is nice, but I think some remastered unit voices would enhance the game even more -_-' Especially for Protoss.
Also DK's answer about micro is on par with his design vision of SC2. Bland and arrogant. So... no surprise there.
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Was that really it? No new features announced? No in client viewing like Dota 2? Nothing new except new portraits and map editor options? No news about Legacy of the Void?
Very, very underwhelmed.
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Answer: They want more diversity, mech is a good opportunity. Two changes: Combined upgrades and siege tank buffs. If thats not enough theress still time to make more changes, but the goal for the future is to make mech viable not agianst Z but also P.
As awesome as it is to see, i don't see mech being viable for at least another year (prob when lotv comes out lol) still at the rate they are changing things. Mech in tvp needs some big changes before it becomes viable. Good to hear but i will not be expecting any results any time soon
EDIT: .+ Show Spoiler +based from their summery of their future goals in their blog (http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/11523759) Mech is obviously at the bottom of their to do list lol. focusing on adding more action and excitement, pretty much anti mech approach lol since mech requires terran to play like protoss lol. sit back, build up your comp then move out to secure additional bases to add more tech and kill with big deathball
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Netherlands45349 Posts
I didn't understand how Muta micro or Vulture micro worked for ages nor did I know how Carriers worked. Yet everyone knew how impressive Jaedong's Muta Micro, Fantasy's Vulture micro and Stork's Carriers were.
what a shame.
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On November 09 2013 08:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2013 07:21 andrewlt wrote:On November 09 2013 07:04 LittLeD wrote:
David Kim answered the question about the 'Depth of Micro' video. His answer was that it draws back to the viability of moves, and that it should be easily viable when a 'cool' move is made that gets someone an advantage.
I'm not sure he actually addressed the bugs that were discussed in the video though I hate this answer by David Kim. I watched BW for around 10 years after I stopped playing it. The awesome micro moves are noticeable to viewers, even ones who have no idea how they're done and stopped playing long before they were discovered. I enjoyed watching such things as Fantasy's vulture micro, Jaedong's mutalisk micro and Leta's wraith micro without knowing the mechanics behind them. It was just that obvious that their micro was much better than their opponent's. It just looked cool. Let's be honest here. What's the difference between watching Vulture micro compared to Reaper micro? BW Mutalisk stacking vs SC2 Mutalisk stacking? Wraith micro and Banshee micro? They look identical to a lay-person, but all of the "amazement" is from in-depth knowledge about how awkward the actual micro management is. Most of the amazing control in Pro BW wasn't from how amazing each play actually looked, but how "bad" the average unit control looked.
This is completely wrong. Mutalisk stacking from both games looks the same? Maybe you need to go back and see how mutalisk flocks in BW looked and felt. You could literally see how elegant and smooth they were, gliding in and out without any pauses. No need to understand the game at all to see this difference.
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Pretty disappointed with the announcements, to be honest.
I was really hoping for SOMETHING about in-game tournaments or some kind of update to Battle.net.
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On November 09 2013 08:09 paralleluniverse wrote:
Was that really it? No new features announced? No in client viewing like Dota 2? Nothing new except new portraits and map editor options? No news about Legacy of the Void?
Very, very underwhelmed.
Making essentially the entire game game free minus campaign and 1v1 ladder is a pretty big deal.
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Yeah I am curious if that's all that was announced. The OP feels somewhat lacking...
And I am really, really glad that well known figures are speaking out about how upset they are by Blizzard's reponse. It's nice to see that - it could very well be the precursor to actual change!
Also:
BW MUSIC!!!!!
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On November 09 2013 07:00 KeksX wrote:
General & Arcade
- Starter edition(F2P) changes:
--> All races available
--> Custom games available
--> Arcade available
Sooo, what's left that's not free to play?
*Ladder
*Single player
*...
Anything else?
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On November 09 2013 08:03 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't think I can properly express how much I hate this answer about the micro. It's completely ignorant of how casuals experienced BW. It was way, way easier to understand BW micro.
You have gravitas, clobber David Kim with a bit of common sense.
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On November 09 2013 08:03 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I don't think I can properly express how much I hate this answer about the micro. It's completely ignorant of how casuals experienced BW. It was way, way easier to understand BW micro.
No it wasn't. Casuals average on the order of around 40 APM (give or take around 1 action every 1.5s) and more often than not do notice half of the things that people on this forum claim they do.
What were you guys expecting them to do? Commit to a complete redesign of a number of core parameters in their game, mid expansion because of a single video from a pro gamer?
Come on. Don't be silly. You were never going to get that kind of reaction. At best, you might see some of those mechanics (siege tank turret and probably a toning down of the autospreading) in LoTV but not any time soon.
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EPT
