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BlizzCon SC2 Panel Summary - Page 15

Forum Index > SC2 General
295 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 13 14 15 All
claybones
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States244 Posts
November 11 2013 04:10 GMT
#281
I have a bad feeling that the remastered Brood War music won't turn out well. I can't fully explain why but I just think they'll miss the mark somehow.
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12363 Posts
November 11 2013 04:17 GMT
#282
On November 11 2013 13:10 claybones wrote:
I have a bad feeling that the remastered Brood War music won't turn out well. I can't fully explain why but I just think they'll miss the mark somehow.

you can always just play bw music with a music player on your pc
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
claybones
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States244 Posts
November 11 2013 04:31 GMT
#283
On November 11 2013 13:17 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 11 2013 13:10 claybones wrote:
I have a bad feeling that the remastered Brood War music won't turn out well. I can't fully explain why but I just think they'll miss the mark somehow.

you can always just play bw music with a music player on your pc

That's basically my point, I don't see a reason why they should remaster it.
TrippSC2
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States209 Posts
November 11 2013 04:40 GMT
#284
On November 10 2013 04:36 aZealot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2013 04:16 Grumbels wrote:
On November 10 2013 03:36 aZealot wrote:
On November 10 2013 03:26 Grumbels wrote:
The essence of Lalush's video was the brood war micro footage.

What happens is that people presumably dislike brood war being mentioned, so since they can't actually argue with Lalush's points, because the subject matter is somewhat complicated, instead they go troll on forums with fake concern about "disregard for viewer's time" or "divisive framing of the subject matter" as if they are neutral arbiters speaking objectively about the situation. As if anyone at Blizzard should care about the delivery of the message, if anyone at Blizzard couldn't take the video seriously because of the framing or whatever then they don't deserve their job.


This is one of the most stupid things I have ever read. If you want to get your point across, you tailor it to the people you try to convince. Especially given the long history of BW v SC2 (ever since the release of SC2), it is especially important that your point does not become BW had it, so SC2 should have it too. Even more so when you are talking to the SC2 development team. You can beat a guy over the head with your point or persuade him with honey. If the person you are trying to convince is in the position of decision, honey is better, everytime. You put aside your ego and the strength of your point (which may not be as strong as you think it is anyway) and try to win your point by persuading not bludgeoning. The world works this way.


If anyone mentions the video what inevitably happens is that some concerns will be brought up about the presentation: sloppy editing, slow pacing, monotone voice, the choice of brood war for the comparisons and so on. I don't think any of that counts as a valid argument. There is plenty of valid discussion to be had about the video, but somehow complaining about the presentation is the only thing that some people can bring to the discussion. All this pearl clutching about trivial matters is just too much and makes me consider that these are dishonest tactics that substitute for actual arguments.

I'm not going to speak for Lalush, but my reading of the video is that it can't be helped that it's divisive. There was very interesting micro in brood war, but it's missing in the sequel. That's why the brood war footage is the point of the video. It seems like quite a simple concept.

Oh, and in the "real world" Blizzard was never going to implement anything of this video no matter what. I don't know what you were expecting...


Presentation is a key component of making any argument. Your points don't exist in a vacuum. This also means respecting the time of the people you are presenting to. A 45 minute video of which more than half are BW clips does not do that. Nor does it add to the argument when the argument should be about improving aspects of SC2 in specific ways. This is not to say that a better presented video may have had more impact with the development team. The point is, we may never know.

Second, you are assuming that your argument is the right and correct one. This may or may not be the case. But, let's not assume that the person you are making the argument to necessarily believes it just because you (and everyone else of your group on the forum) are convinced of the strength of your argument. For example, I myself am not sure how much of the changes LaLush proposed would or should fit into SC2. Turrets I can unreservedly get on board with, the rest I am not sure about. Heck, I may even be wrong about turrets. I did, however, want to see some testing to see what could fit into SC2 without overhauling the game too much. I say this because I have an incremental and conservative attitude towards SC2.

I should also add, that we are basing this dissection of DK's reply on a question - the specifics of which I do not know - at a panel discussion. It is quite easy to talk past one another (especially if the question was "Did you see the Depth of Micro article on TL?"). Again, a focused video could have led to focused questions and less opportunity for DK to evade the issue with a general reply. Finally, we may yet have more micro in SC2. Just maybe not the type that was in BW and was showcased in the last half of that clip. This may not necessarily be a bad thing. It depends on what micro enhancements that the SC2 development team do make, the use of these changes by the playerbase, and their effect in improving SC2 gameplay.

I don't think it could have been said better.

There were a couple of things in there that seem like no-brainers. Turrets, the overkill bug, and the separation taking priority over attacking all fit in that category to me. The rest of it, I have a lot of trouble getting behind, because what he's talking about isn't broken, it just isn't how he would prefer it to be.

In particular, the attack initiation time point I think is a case of different rather than inferior design. It makes me think of that Starcraft Master level where you had 1 banshee vs a bunch of marines. It's only a challenge because it requires reasonably precise timing, not just speed. If you are late or early, you lose efficiency from your unit. If you take initiation time off the banshee (and rebalance it appropriately), winning that scenario shifts from being about precision to being purely about speed.
Nerevar
Profile Joined January 2013
547 Posts
November 11 2013 05:09 GMT
#285
On November 11 2013 13:10 claybones wrote:
I have a bad feeling that the remastered Brood War music won't turn out well. I can't fully explain why but I just think they'll miss the mark somehow.

I think it should be fine. They'll probably just do them in higher bitrate with redone instrumentals, maybe using a real orchestra instead of an electronic one.

There are already a few official orchestral arrangements of some of each of the races' songs released by Blizzard as part of an anniversary album Echoes of War. Even though I can nitpick that orchestra to death and question some of the melody choices in the arrangements, the songs ultimately do sound good whenever they're just remixes of old BW themes. If it's just a remaster, it's completely fine since the old melodies are solid enough to survive a lot of bad remixing.
coolman123123
Profile Joined August 2013
146 Posts
November 11 2013 05:49 GMT
#286
I would like to add that I talked to Cloaken at blizzcon, and he strongly suggested that the economy of the game is not going to change for LotV. In fact based on what he said it seems like it's not even something that's being looked at or is on the table at the moment. Granted he isn't a developer himself, he still seems to know what the developers are working on. I know a lot of people want to see changes to the economy of the game so I hope this gives some insight. (sorry if this doesn't belong in this thread, not sure where else to post it)
DinosaurPoop
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
687 Posts
November 11 2013 14:28 GMT
#287
"Death of Micro"
How i first read it when I watched the video.
When cats speak, mice listen.
fried_rice
Profile Blog Joined July 2013
198 Posts
November 11 2013 14:36 GMT
#288
On November 11 2013 14:49 coolman123123 wrote:
I would like to add that I talked to Cloaken at blizzcon, and he strongly suggested that the economy of the game is not going to change for LotV. In fact based on what he said it seems like it's not even something that's being looked at or is on the table at the moment. Granted he isn't a developer himself, he still seems to know what the developers are working on. I know a lot of people want to see changes to the economy of the game so I hope this gives some insight. (sorry if this doesn't belong in this thread, not sure where else to post it)


I think this doesn't come as a surprise to absolutely nobody, although it's nice to have some kind of "confirmation". Did you talk about anything else interesting?
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5217 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-11 17:53:06
November 11 2013 17:44 GMT
#289
On November 10 2013 06:46 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2013 06:32 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I would pay to be able to disable skins and have a standardized game. What do we do now ?

I'm not against a bit of fun, portraits are fine, but those ingame decals just aren't serious. I want the game to feel realistic.

I don't think there should be instant replay review in football, but I don't get everything I want. Life it hard, get a helmet.


I didn't know Sepp Blatter had a TL account! All those disagreements we've had Plansix, now I suddenly understand why your opinions are so questionable to me.

At least I'm encouraged that the vast majority of fans in all sports support instant replay.

Anyway, I'm all for the decals being able to be disabled, because I also want the game to feel realistic. Same can be said for skins, you should be able to disable skins too. More options > less options.
mishimaBeef
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada2259 Posts
November 11 2013 17:48 GMT
#290
Watching blizzcon I see the micro as just fine. Too many chefs spoil the broth. And it's their broth.
Dare to live the life you have dreamed for yourself. Go forward and make your dreams come true. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
coolman123123
Profile Joined August 2013
146 Posts
November 11 2013 19:23 GMT
#291
On November 11 2013 23:36 fried_rice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 11 2013 14:49 coolman123123 wrote:
I would like to add that I talked to Cloaken at blizzcon, and he strongly suggested that the economy of the game is not going to change for LotV. In fact based on what he said it seems like it's not even something that's being looked at or is on the table at the moment. Granted he isn't a developer himself, he still seems to know what the developers are working on. I know a lot of people want to see changes to the economy of the game so I hope this gives some insight. (sorry if this doesn't belong in this thread, not sure where else to post it)


I think this doesn't come as a surprise to absolutely nobody, although it's nice to have some kind of "confirmation". Did you talk about anything else interesting?


It seems like the expansion is really trying to appeal to new/casual players. You can see based on what they said in the panel that this is the direction the team is taking. He also mentioned f2p is not off the table at this time.
Killmouse
Profile Joined August 2010
Austria5700 Posts
November 11 2013 19:34 GMT
#292
On November 12 2013 04:23 coolman123123 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 11 2013 23:36 fried_rice wrote:
On November 11 2013 14:49 coolman123123 wrote:
I would like to add that I talked to Cloaken at blizzcon, and he strongly suggested that the economy of the game is not going to change for LotV. In fact based on what he said it seems like it's not even something that's being looked at or is on the table at the moment. Granted he isn't a developer himself, he still seems to know what the developers are working on. I know a lot of people want to see changes to the economy of the game so I hope this gives some insight. (sorry if this doesn't belong in this thread, not sure where else to post it)


I think this doesn't come as a surprise to absolutely nobody, although it's nice to have some kind of "confirmation". Did you talk about anything else interesting?


It seems like the expansion is really trying to appeal to new/casual players. You can see based on what they said in the panel that this is the direction the team is taking. He also mentioned f2p is not off the table at this time.

f2p campaign?? wtf thatll probably never gonna happen,and sc2 multiplayer is f2p anyway after new patch ,except 1v1 matchmaking
yo
Chaggi
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)1936 Posts
November 11 2013 19:36 GMT
#293
On November 12 2013 02:48 mishimaBeef wrote:
Watching blizzcon I see the micro as just fine. Too many chefs spoil the broth. And it's their broth.


but this chef only has pepper, it'd be nice to just have salt, to make it even better than it possibly could be.
wUndertUnge
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1125 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-11 22:51:13
November 11 2013 22:50 GMT
#294
On November 12 2013 04:23 coolman123123 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 11 2013 23:36 fried_rice wrote:
On November 11 2013 14:49 coolman123123 wrote:
I would like to add that I talked to Cloaken at blizzcon, and he strongly suggested that the economy of the game is not going to change for LotV. In fact based on what he said it seems like it's not even something that's being looked at or is on the table at the moment. Granted he isn't a developer himself, he still seems to know what the developers are working on. I know a lot of people want to see changes to the economy of the game so I hope this gives some insight. (sorry if this doesn't belong in this thread, not sure where else to post it)


I think this doesn't come as a surprise to absolutely nobody, although it's nice to have some kind of "confirmation". Did you talk about anything else interesting?


It seems like the expansion is really trying to appeal to new/casual players.


How are they going to do that I wonder aside from what they're already doing...

EDIT: Any specifics? Also, that doesn't mean watering down the 1v1 right?


Clan: QQGC - wundertunge#1850
TL+ Member
Hryul
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Austria2609 Posts
November 11 2013 22:57 GMT
#295
Just to find something positive: It seems like they really identified the importance of maps and mapmaking and are putting more effort into it.
Countdown to victory: 1 200!
tyranolol
Profile Joined February 2013
17 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-15 15:45:10
November 15 2013 15:44 GMT
#296
I don't trust the ratios mentioned, no near of 50%, you watched the top 100 matches but how many Zergs has been on this matches? don't much I think, I just see on every single WCS region championship Protoss and Terran Players and you still saying the game is balanced? holy fuck...
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