EPTDepth of Micro - Page 5
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jcroisdale
United States1543 Posts
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
do you really think they will even bat an eye at this | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
In BW the health bars where below the unit and when a unit and a healthbar occupied the same pixel the unit would stand on top. In SC2 the health bars are above and if a health bar overlaps a unit it goes over. Notice the interceptor in this pic: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1yUTvTB.jpg) and then notice health bars in sc2: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Uzw9g.png) | ||
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Staboteur
Canada1873 Posts
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Falling
Canada11491 Posts
On October 31 2013 11:51 vaderseven wrote: Man watching these videos made me realize a UI concept I miss from BW. In BW the health bars where below the unit and when a unit and a healthbar occupied the same pixel the unit would stand on top. In SC2 the health bars are above and if a health bar overlaps a unit it goes over. Notice the interceptor in this pic: and then notice health bars in sc2: 100% agree, man. I've been preaching healthbars below for awhile. When you combine it with clumping mechanics of SC2, the overlapping sprites are almost completely obscured. We also tend to read top to bottom, so that doesn't help either. I call it the Battle of the Healthbars. Yes it tells you precisely what the health of every unit is, but that's about it. It would be like covering over every unit with giant health numbers "25/45." Even more precise, but you might as well watch a colour-coded spreadsheet if you cover up all the unit sprites like that. + Show Spoiler + On March 26 2012 08:27 Falling wrote: Yes! Someone else did the work I was going to try to do. To me it's becomes the Battle of the Health Bars and it's a Blizzard design issue. Take a look at the difference: Current ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GYcsk.jpg) Potential ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GnvyA.jpg) Now you could tweak it a bit because I think the second one is a little too hard to see with the workers' healthbars, but I think it's the right idea. Taken from here: http://sc2pod.com/trackers/blue/starcraft-2/?id=4199 See the problem is any army with depth, the overlap that you see is just more healthbars where the actual unit is hidden. This is further exacberated with unit clumping. I think it also has to do with our tendency (at least in English) to read from the top of the page to the bottom. I'm pretty sure we perceive what's on top before what's on bottom. With it on top, it just looks way too busy and it's hard to register the individual parts you are seeing as it just becomes a mass of green, yellow, and red lights, combined with attack animation. | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
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itsjustatank
Hong Kong9172 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + im not holding my breath | ||
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
I can only wonder, however, how those changes would effect the current meta/balance.. It would be awesome if you could create a melee map with the fixes you suggested  | ||
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larse
1611 Posts
On October 31 2013 12:05 Falling wrote: 100% agree, man. I've been preaching healthbars below for awhile. When you combine it with clumping mechanics of SC2, the overlapping sprites are almost completely obscured. We also tend to read top to bottom, so that doesn't help either. I call it the Battle of the Healthbars. Yes it tells you precisely what the health of every unit is, but that's about it. It would be like covering over every unit with giant health numbers "25/45." Even more precise, but you might as well watch a colour-coded spreadsheet if you cover up all the unit sprites like that. + Show Spoiler + On March 26 2012 08:27 Falling wrote: Yes! Someone else did the work I was going to try to do. To me it's becomes the Battle of the Health Bars and it's a Blizzard design issue. Take a look at the difference: Current Potential Now you could tweak it a bit because I think the second one is a little too hard to see with the workers' healthbars, but I think it's the right idea. Taken from here: http://sc2pod.com/trackers/blue/starcraft-2/?id=4199 See the problem is any army with depth, the overlap that you see is just more healthbars where the actual unit is hidden. This is further exacberated with unit clumping. I think it also has to do with our tendency (at least in English) to read from the top of the page to the bottom. I'm pretty sure we perceive what's on top before what's on bottom. With it on top, it just looks way too busy and it's hard to register the individual parts you are seeing as it just becomes a mass of green, yellow, and red lights, combined with attack animation. sc2pod, oh god. All these old and dead websites are a reflection of that Blizzard just doesn't listen, or very very slow in turning listening into action. Blizzard really doesn't care on this level of details. | ||
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larse
1611 Posts
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On October 31 2013 12:27 larse wrote: sc2pod, oh god. All these old and dead websites are a reflection of that Blizzard just doesn't listen, or very very slow in turning listening into action. Blizzard really doesn't care on this level of details. Man there are simply just way too much stuff to fix. I hope Blizzard invest a lot of their resources into the game but with their moba and card game in development. I don't think they'll focus on SC2 for the next 2 years which is when LotV comes out so chances are that LotV will fundamentally remain identical. This is just soul crushing for fans. | ||
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ETisME
12703 Posts
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
On October 31 2013 12:05 Falling wrote: 100% agree, man. I've been preaching healthbars below for awhile. When you combine it with clumping mechanics of SC2, the overlapping sprites are almost completely obscured. We also tend to read top to bottom, so that doesn't help either. I call it the Battle of the Healthbars. Yes it tells you precisely what the health of every unit is, but that's about it. It would be like covering over every unit with giant health numbers "25/45." Even more precise, but you might as well watch a colour-coded spreadsheet if you cover up all the unit sprites like that. + Show Spoiler + On March 26 2012 08:27 Falling wrote: Yes! Someone else did the work I was going to try to do. To me it's becomes the Battle of the Health Bars and it's a Blizzard design issue. Take a look at the difference: Current Potential Now you could tweak it a bit because I think the second one is a little too hard to see with the workers' healthbars, but I think it's the right idea. Taken from here: http://sc2pod.com/trackers/blue/starcraft-2/?id=4199 See the problem is any army with depth, the overlap that you see is just more healthbars where the actual unit is hidden. This is further exacberated with unit clumping. I think it also has to do with our tendency (at least in English) to read from the top of the page to the bottom. I'm pretty sure we perceive what's on top before what's on bottom. With it on top, it just looks way too busy and it's hard to register the individual parts you are seeing as it just becomes a mass of green, yellow, and red lights, combined with attack animation. When you set UI:Bar Offset to 0, the bar is right smack on top of the unit. If you set it to -1, it dissapears if you zoom in a tiny bit, and also towards the bottom of the screen. Anything lower than that and it dissapears entirely. This makes me a sad panda. | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
On October 31 2013 12:42 ETisME wrote: I don't see why this isn't in blogs or even BW thread...even if it is well written SC2 engine bugs, not BW. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On October 31 2013 12:42 ETisME wrote: I don't see why this isn't in blogs or even BW thread...even if it is well written Please, don't be negative. We need to expose the truth to as much people as possible. As matter of fact, this should be featured to attain more momentum. | ||
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Falling
Canada11491 Posts
On October 31 2013 12:43 decemberscalm wrote: When you set UI:Bar Offset to 0, the bar is right smack on top of the unit. If you set it to -1, it dissapears if you zoom in a tiny bit, and also towards the bottom of the screen. Anything lower than that and it dissapears entirely. This makes me a sad panda. That's a shame.  Sounds like you are such a wizard with tinkering with the what you can. But some things can't be changed without Blizzard's help. Even it was an option. Like if progamers have gotten too used to using healthbars, then the spectator mode drops it down below like in BW. Incidently, I think the same problem exists when spectating teamfights in games like League of Legends. The thing that is above (the healthbar) stands out the most. And when the entire team closes in for the fight, the individual action gets lost because the healthbars are overlapping and covering the hero sprites and thus obscuring the view. I say this as someone who plays LoL by the way. Not a random bash at the game. | ||
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Code
Canada634 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 31 2013 12:42 ETisME wrote: I don't see why this isn't in blogs or even BW thread...even if it is well written I agree, I don't know why its in SC2, except that people love to point out how much "better" BW was. I am sure we will see another blog as some point about worker control or melee unit response rates and animations. Just to keep the narrative going on forever. | ||
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ETisME
12703 Posts
On October 31 2013 12:49 Xiphos wrote: Please, don't be negative. We need to expose the truth to as much people as possible. As matter of fact, this should be featured to attain more momentum. if anything, Lalush post was nothing more than just "What we had for BW now we don't have in SC2" type of post/blog. decemberscalm's post is way better because he actually identify why we don't have these in SC2, some to do with the engine limitation. | ||
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Falling
Canada11491 Posts
On October 31 2013 12:54 Plansix wrote: I agree, I don't know why its in SC2, except that people love to point out how much "better" BW was. I am sure we will see another blog as some point about worker control or melee unit response rates and animations. Just to keep the narrative going on forever. Because the goal isn't to gloat? The goal is to highlight some changes that Blizzard could do to SC2 to make it better. There are two conditions where this is useful. One, the game is not perfect. If the game is good, but not perfect, then there is always something more than can be done to make it better. And two, there is still someone with the means that is willing to make those changes. And Blizzard has committed to make one more expansion and continues to patch the game. Once that is done, there really isn't much point except talk ourselves blue in the face. But if 1) there is something to change and 2) there is someone to change it... then this isn't at all about how BW is "better." It is instead about what could make SC2 better. | ||
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