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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
We’ve just published a new Balance Test Map to the StarCraft II Custom Games list titled "Bel’Shir Vestige LE (2.0.11 Balance v1.0)". This time, we're testing a few balance tweaks across all three races in Heart of the Swarm multiplayer. During this testing phase, please keep in mind that none of the changes listed below are final. Our plan is to first consider each change, and potentially test additional changes after reviewing your feedback. Let's have a look at what you'll be testing:
Protoss
- Oracle
- Movement speed increased from 3.375 to 4.0
- Acceleration increased from 2 to 3
- Revelation casting radius increased from 9 to 10
+ Show Spoiler [DK's Justification] +The speed changes are something we’ve tried in the past and we believe this is a better direction than a straight cost reduction for the unit. The main reason is that we’d like the difference between someone who’s amazing with Oracle micro to be able to keep them alive the whole game to get the most out of them, whereas lesser skilled players won’t get as much out of this change. Not only that, this direction is a smaller buff to the all in case and/or early game use cases compared to the previously proposed 50 gas cost reduction. Revelation right now is the main late game ability for Oracles, meaning if it’s a bit easier to use, we’d see a lot more Oracle usage in the late game as well. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/10081798294
Terran
- Armory
- Vehicle and Ship Weapon upgrades have been combined
- Siege Tank
- Siege Mode attack period decreased from 3.0 to 2.7
- Widow Mine
- Sentinel Missiles splash radius decreased from 1.75 to 1.25
+ Show Spoiler [DK's Justification] +Mech ground and air attack upgrades combinedWe've been looking at this for a long time now, and it feels like a solid step in the right direction. Siege tank attack period decreasedBio play may be more interesting with the Widow Mine change and this buff. Not only that, we believe Terran mech armies can be a lot more viable because faster attack speed naturally means Siege Tanks will be better against their hard counters. Widow mine splash radius decreasedWe'd like to push out the Widow Mine a little bit and bump up the Siege Tank so that bio play becomes more interesting. Ultimately, we believe a mix of Widow Mines and Siege Tanks with your bio army will be a lot more fun to watch than just Widow Mines with bio alone. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/10038734466
Zerg- Roach Warren
- The Tunneling Claws upgrade now increases burrowed Roach movement speed from 1.41 to 2.25.
+ Show Spoiler [DK's Justification] +
Once again, feedback based on playtesting is the most helpful information you can share with us at this time. We kindly ask that you spend some time playing games on the test map before offering your thoughts on the changes listed above.
As always, thank you for your continued feedback and support. We’d like to restate that we’re trying out these changes to see how they affect current gameplay, and none of them are final. Once you feel you’ve had enough time to test thoroughly, we welcome you to join us in this discussion thread.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/11160073
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/11160073
Poll: Impressions for the Oracle Movement/Acceleration Buff?Disapprove (293) 59% Approve (162) 32% Neutral-prove (44) 9% 499 total votes Your vote: Impressions for the Oracle Movement/Acceleration Buff? (Vote): Approve
(Vote): Disapprove
(Vote): Neutral-prove
Poll: Impressions for the Oracle Revelation Buff?Approve (312) 79% Disapprove (58) 15% Neutral-prove (26) 7% 396 total votes Your vote: Impressions for the Oracle Revelation Buff? (Vote): Approve
(Vote): Disapprove
(Vote): Neutral-prove
Poll: Impressions for the Vehicle/Ship Upgrade Buff?Approve (243) 60% Disapprove (134) 33% Neutral-prove (31) 8% 408 total votes Your vote: Impressions for the Vehicle/Ship Upgrade Buff? (Vote): Approve
(Vote): Disapprove
(Vote): Neutral-prove
Poll: Impressions for the Siege Tank Buff?Approve (326) 78% Disapprove (75) 18% Neutral-prove (17) 4% 418 total votes Your vote: Impressions for the Siege Tank Buff? (Vote): Approve
(Vote): Disapprove
(Vote): Neutral-prove
Poll: Impressions for the Widow Mine Nerf?Approve (286) 63% Disapprove (120) 26% Neutral-prove (50) 11% 456 total votes Your vote: Impressions for the Widow Mine Nerf? (Vote): Approve
(Vote): Disapprove
(Vote): Neutral-prove
Poll: Impressions for the Tunneling Claws Buff?Approve (276) 67% Disapprove (99) 24% Neutral-prove (38) 9% 413 total votes Your vote: Impressions for the Tunneling Claws Buff? (Vote): Approve
(Vote): Disapprove
(Vote): Neutral-prove
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So it begins... let's see how this works
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I wish he would clarify on 'some really cool micro potential'.
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On October 03 2013 11:50 mishimaBeef wrote:
I wish he would clarify on 'some really cool micro potential'.
Watched GSL recently? I think it was life with some cool burrow tricks.
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They seem very stuck on the idea of harassment being the issue with the game and relying on that to solve the issue of death balls.
I wish they would look at some of the real issues. These changes are nice, but ultimately don't solve anything and won't hardly move the meta for any race enough.
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Do people actually play these test maps? What kind of conclusions can be drawn from some metal league players just fooling around with the changed units?
The only way I could see these test maps be worth it would be if they actually added an unranked matchmaking option to play on this, that might encourage more people to do so. Alternatively just hire a korean pro house team to grind the map for a week and see what they come up with.
On October 03 2013 12:22 geokilla wrote:
TvT. Mech only.
And nothing of value was lost.
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TLADT24920 Posts
Anyone else notice this for the widow mine? It says testing is for 1.75 to 1.25 but in the spoiler, it says 1.75 to 1. Guessing the 1 is wrong in the spoiler lol.
On October 03 2013 12:08 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 11:50 mishimaBeef wrote:
I wish he would clarify on 'some really cool micro potential'. Watched GSL recently? I think it was life with some cool burrow tricks.
guessing you mean the games with trust? It was ok the first time but not that cool since all he did was unburrow, target a stalker then burrow back lol.
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and mech still killed by protoss deathball 
Oh well, i'm zerg, and i'm 51% happy 
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Glad they didnt go through with the DT changes
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Dislike ship/vehicle weapon combo and oracle speed, , bit neutral on the roach burrow speed, but otherwise I'm ok with the rest across the board.
Only reason I'm neutral with the roach thing is that it feels like Blizzards answer seems to be to just keep making things walk faster and faster. I'd prefer different approaches. I like the slow roach crawl hehe
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damn it, my terran mech is way too rusty to try the changes out properly T T
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On October 03 2013 12:30 BigFan wrote:Anyone else notice this for the widow mine? It says testing is for 1.75 to 1.25 but in the spoiler, it says 1.75 to 1. Guessing the 1 is wrong in the spoiler lol. Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 12:08 plogamer wrote:On October 03 2013 11:50 mishimaBeef wrote:
I wish he would clarify on 'some really cool micro potential'. Watched GSL recently? I think it was life with some cool burrow tricks. guessing you mean the games with trust? It was ok the first time but not that cool since all he did was unburrow, target a stalker then burrow back lol.
I was sure I also saw burrow movement.
/edit
Regardless getting tunneling claws would be that much more powerful.
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On October 03 2013 12:30 BigFan wrote:Anyone else notice this for the widow mine? It says testing is for 1.75 to 1.25 but in the spoiler, it says 1.75 to 1. Guessing the 1 is wrong in the spoiler lol. Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 12:08 plogamer wrote:On October 03 2013 11:50 mishimaBeef wrote:
I wish he would clarify on 'some really cool micro potential'. Watched GSL recently? I think it was life with some cool burrow tricks. guessing you mean the games with trust? It was ok the first time but not that cool since all he did was unburrow, target a stalker then burrow back lol.
that's more micro than blink stalker lol
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I dunno why they won't add +shield damage to tanks.
The vehicle and ship upgrades merger shows a terrible lack of understanding for how their own game works, and will kill whatever future bio and marine/tank play has in TvT.
I really wish they'd buff Ravens and also get rid of the stupid fizzle bullshit with seeker missiles by letting them chase units again. The biggest issue with Terran is that their army is too bottom-heavy, so once you have your m's and your techlab upgrades, you've more-or-less maxed out your army strength. My guess is that, if the mine nerf weakens their midgame too much, Terrans will have virtually nothing left to work with in the late-game. Ravens aren't consistent enough, and Battlecruisers melt to corruptors.
Also, the mine splash reduction is really noticeable, but doesn't hurt the Terran at all if their opponent goes up to Hive tech. That single-target damage is still ridiculous @_@
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Overall very interesting changes. I just hope that this doesn't mean an excessive amount of Oracle proxies and, even more importantly, that the Widow Mine is lost entirely - like the Hellbat.
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United States23455 Posts
On October 03 2013 12:25 Bagi wrote:Do people actually play these test maps? What kind of conclusions can be drawn from some metal league players just fooling around with the changed units? The only way I could see these test maps be worth it would be if they actually added an unranked matchmaking option to play on this, that might encourage more people to do so. Alternatively just hire a korean pro house team to grind the map for a week and see what they come up with. And nothing of value was lost.
You have no soul if you can't appreciate some good bio or marine tank TvT
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United States23455 Posts
On October 03 2013 13:41 Ctesias wrote:
Overall very interesting changes. I just hope that this doesn't mean an excessive amount of Oracle proxies and, even more importantly, that the Widow Mine is lost entirely - like the Hellbat.
ForGG carries on the tradition
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On October 03 2013 12:51 bittman wrote:
Dislike ship/vehicle weapon combo and oracle speed, , bit neutral on the roach burrow speed, but otherwise I'm ok with the rest across the board.
Only reason I'm neutral with the roach thing is that it feels like Blizzards answer seems to be to just keep making things walk faster and faster. I'd prefer different approaches. I like the slow roach crawl hehe
Soon or later the game will have things faster than speedlings on creep lol
Just on the top of my head they could potentially work on
1) Minimising the hard counters so losses are less dependent on compositional errors (and shutting down whole tech tress).
2) Making the often forgotten abilities in the game useful, e.g. binding cloud vs bio balls.. or servo transformations..
3) Making 50% of the units in the game relevant again and this means mech needs to be viable (this means we will see carriers for once!!!)
4) Stop making things faster and instead look at the core issues of the unit and tweak their roles. Faster oracles only mean, faster swoop ins to kill workers early game and Blizzard wants oracles to literally become a non-cloaked flying observer... what if they had another role where they could be a short ranged AOE AtA capabilities (that use energy) for mid game mutas or the like?
5) I think its fair to say that they should look at the coin-flippy nature of spellcasters e.g. feedback vs emps that dictate the outcome so much.
Imagine if in TvP, instead of snipe/emp vs feedbacks between ghosts vs HTs, what if it was storms vs lockdowns instead? Sure the colossi is lockdowned, but moving into the protoss army could mean being stormed. It sort of becomes a niche and maybe its better to have more core units than massing spell casters that are now not dealing the damage but just supplementing the army..
6) More micro potential e.g. "move and shoot" or "glide and shoot" mechanic so the mutaball becomes much more effective vs pure marines if controlled properly or even a group of hellions vs stimmed marines.
7) Assess the risk to reward ratio and tweak it to make sense e.g. turbo-vacs. There should be a con to using turbo boosts like it uses medivac energy..
Just so much potential untapped yet the wrong things are looked into.. like proposing that idea of making very very fast DTs,,
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Played a few TvZs with a buddy, we just played standard games, biomine vs muta b/ling. I lost them all, but I would have anyway even without the nerf because he's just flatout quite a bit better than me. But even though, I didn't feel a big difference, he said he felt it a few times. It IS a sizeable nerf and pro players will def see a big change I'm sure. But myself, I don't really mind
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cNrBDJc.png)
