EPTI just don't see how you would ever have to float your buildings into a corner when you have 50 ravens and 50 vikings.
Call to Action: October 2 Balance Testing - Page 15
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Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
I just don't see how you would ever have to float your buildings into a corner when you have 50 ravens and 50 vikings. | ||
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
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fried_rice
198 Posts
On October 11 2013 02:10 Darkhoarse wrote: I just don't see how you would ever have to float your buildings into a corner when you have 50 ravens and 50 vikings. Let it go man...just let it go, pretend this was never asked and move on, if you keep arguing they'll get into your head and next thing you know you'll have gone insane. | ||
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fried_rice
198 Posts
On October 11 2013 02:11 TeeTS wrote: Show me replays or VODs of this unbeatable mech TvZ style. Before I get to watch these, I wouldn´t believe anything about it. No one can show you a replay or a VOD of this because it doesn't exist and will never exist. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On October 11 2013 02:11 TeeTS wrote: Show me replays or VODs of this unbeatable mech TvZ style. Before I get to watch these, I wouldn´t believe anything about it. I heard avilo plays this regularly. But dunno, cause do not care. | ||
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ETisME
12909 Posts
On October 11 2013 02:11 TeeTS wrote: Show me replays or VODs of this unbeatable mech TvZ style. Before I get to watch these, I wouldn´t believe anything about it. You can watch Thorzain tvz in hots beta. He went a more heavy skyterran though and that was with ground sky upgrade combined. Avilo does it by playing just super greedy build as well. But it gets to show just how good it can trade with anything when he gets that unit count high | ||
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fried_rice
198 Posts
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Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
On October 11 2013 02:20 ETisME wrote: You can watch Thorzain tvz in hots beta. He went a more heavy skyterran though and that was with ground sky upgrade combined. Avilo does it by playing just super greedy build as well. But it gets to show just how good it can trade with anything when he gets that unit count high My thing is, if it worked at the highest level, we'd see it at the highest level. | ||
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Vete
Germany190 Posts
On October 11 2013 02:23 Darkhoarse wrote: My thing is, if it worked at the highest level, we'd see it at the highest level. Why they should pretend the ultra-macro-agressive style ? | ||
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ETisME
12909 Posts
On October 11 2013 02:23 Darkhoarse wrote: My thing is, if it worked at the highest level, we'd see it at the highest level. Bio mine out shines mech in every map and all stages until late late game. This is why mech isn't used, that's not to say mech is not viable at top level. Honestly why would any terran go for mech when bio mine is more consistent in performance? | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On October 11 2013 02:13 fried_rice wrote: No one can show you a replay or a VOD of this because it doesn't exist and will never exist. You seem like a guy that has some knowladge and isn't completely off, but this is really not true. This style exists. And it is basically autowin vs standard ladder Zerg players that pump out 20 SH + mass spine/spore/queen/etc as soon as they realize they are facing mech.. They take whole map then, bank 10k/10k and then they lose.. The way it is beaten is actually the good old "not let him get there".. You can't let him get to 4 or 5 bases, otherwise properly played turtlig mech with PF/walls, Sensor Towers, 3/3 Tank/Thor/Raven/Viking with farmin CC is even worse then Broodlord/Corruptor for Zerg to beat.. | ||
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
There's only single target damage and one splash radius. I'd rather they keep the full size explosion, but make it so the outer perimeters cannot even kill a baneling. Say: 0-1.25 damage = 40 1.25-1.5 damage = 20 1.5-1.75 damage = 10 Or whatever tweak to the numbers makes it better. At least this way, you still feel like you are chipping away at zerg units instead of outright not even abusing them. Mutas can shake off the 10 damage like nothing, but at least Zergling and Banelings will still feel a little more wrath from mines. Most importantly, though, the big instant death of bling blobs is still halted. | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On October 11 2013 02:30 ETisME wrote: Bio mine out shines mech in every map and all stages until late late game. This is why mech isn't used, that's not to say mech is not viable at top level. Honestly why would any terran go for mech when bio mine is more consistent in performance? Yet, terrans going bio-mine is still around 50/50 in high level TvZ. If this style was so unbeatable, how could it be less consistent than bio mine in performance? | ||
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ETisME
12909 Posts
On October 11 2013 02:46 vthree wrote: Yet, terrans going bio-mine is still around 50/50 in high level TvZ. If this style was so unbeatable, how could it be less consistent than bio mine in performance? Because mech is worse at all maps and almost every stage of the game until late late game? I will ignore map influence. Just look at the stages of the game. If the mech player has a higher chance to lose every stage except late late game, is that not less consistent, even if end game is 100% win? | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12071 Posts
On October 11 2013 02:46 vthree wrote: Yet, terrans going bio-mine is still around 50/50 in high level TvZ. If this style was so unbeatable, how could it be less consistent than bio mine in performance? The thing is, bio/mine is so good and the fact bio is standard in pretty much all three matchups still due to how versatile it is, nobody at the pro level is ever going to bother with mech. I've never understood how or why the hell they made Bio more cost efficient than mech. It's never made sense to me and it annoyed me to the point I just quit the game x_x | ||
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The_Darkness
United States910 Posts
On October 08 2013 17:47 Sissors wrote: Coming from someone who meched every single game etc etc, mutas are one of the main problems for mech in HotS. Sure tech switching is a pita. Just like swarmhosts and vipers. But Thors are much worse than in WoL (In WoL getting two thor shots of at clumped mutas was considered a huge win, in HotS fairly irrelevant). And turrets become fairly bad against large numbers of mutas. Sure if you really want you can make enough turrets and leave behind enough thors to stop mutas. However at that point zerg dominates the entire map risk free. And that allows them to do those tech switches and to just keep suiciding ultras into your army. He doesn't care if all his ultras die for only 50% of your army dead, he just remaxes if he got complete map control anyway. I always played mech tvz and that was one of my better match ups. (I was in masters as Terran in NA.) The only times I would lose, as a general matter, were when my opponent went roach-hydra. If you get four or five thors out the mutas have no hope of doing anything. If they committed to mutalisks I would supplement with vikings, which when paired with thors actually help quite a bit and were obviously helpful for the eventual broodlord transition. If you're pushing with a maxed/near maxed 2-2 mech army around 15-16 minutes (which is how I played mech) there is no way zerg could afford a massive tech switch into ultras. There are a lot of reasons you might be struggling against muta but I would be surprised if many other mech players, masters level or greater, share your concern. From the very few pro games I've seen of mech tvz I don't recall mutas seeming like they're a big issue (in contrast to vipers for example). | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On October 11 2013 03:58 The_Darkness wrote: I always played mech tvz and that was one of my better match ups. (I was in masters as Terran in NA.) The only times I would lose, as a general matter, were when my opponent went roach-hydra. If you get four or five thors out the mutas have no hope of doing anything. If they committed to mutalisks I would supplement with vikings, which when paired with thors actually help quite a bit and were obviously helpful for the eventual broodlord transition. If you're pushing with a maxed/near maxed 2-2 mech army around 15-16 minutes (which is how I played mech) there is no way zerg could afford a massive tech switch into ultras. There are a lot of reasons you might be struggling against muta but I would be surprised if many other mech players, masters level or greater, share your concern. From the very few pro games I've seen of mech tvz I don't recall mutas seeming like they're a big issue (in contrast to vipers for example). Actually i remember seeing Strelok vs Scarlett game on Akilon where Scarlett did the infamous: mutas into more mutas transition. Strelok for a reasons of it being well hidden and being pinned never scouted this transition and moved out with 2 thors against 30 mutas. That was sad. Muta transition is slow, but if goes unscouted and you undermake thors is extremely strong. | ||
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DusTerr
2520 Posts
On October 11 2013 02:30 ETisME wrote: Bio mine out shines mech in every map and all stages until late late game. This is why mech isn't used, that's not to say mech is not viable at top level. Honestly why would any terran go for mech when bio mine is more consistent in performance? The real issue regarding mech is rebuilding. Every other composition can rebuild quicker than mech. Terran production is expensive. Combine that with the ability If blizzard really wanted to make mech viable they should combine ground upgrades at the eng. bay (no other race has to pay gas to get the structure for ground upgrades - protoss not even for air). Armory needed for +2 and air upgrades. We might not ever see pure mech in sc2 but at least in this scenario we might see bio mech armies of various types in each match. | ||
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aeroblaster
United States422 Posts
On October 11 2013 02:11 TeeTS wrote: Show me replays or VODs of this unbeatable mech TvZ style. Before I get to watch these, I wouldn´t believe anything about it. I'm just going to leave this here. Game played on 8 Oct 2013. | ||
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See.Blue
United States2673 Posts
On October 11 2013 02:17 lolfail9001 wrote: I heard avilo plays this regularly. But dunno, cause do not care. If 'Unbeatable' were a physical thing, avilo would be located in the corner of the universe furthest from it. | ||
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