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On October 02 2013 17:31 1ntrigue wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 17:05 UmberBane wrote:On October 02 2013 17:01 Lorch wrote:On October 02 2013 16:57 mongmong wrote:On October 02 2013 16:24 myminerals wrote:On October 02 2013 14:54 UmberBane wrote:On October 02 2013 14:50 Rickyvalle21 wrote:
And so it continues. I wonder what warcraft3 forums was like everday when the game was dying. For convenience you could also check out some older BW posts BW was never dying and Kespa would still play it, and we would witness new OSL champions and crowded stadiums and new amazing games. All this could be our today's reality. SC2 better be alive and flourishing, I think we sacrificed too much for its sake. Can you tell me why there was such a big time gap between jinair and tving starleague? I also want to to know why skt is sponsoring proleague. Youre dillusional if you really think broodwar wasnt dying Dude thats like totally natural and shit. Just like mbc game shutting down and fox/hero/hyte/oz disbanding. BW was totally on the up and up towards its end. The introduction of dota 2 to korea will also be really good for lol, competition and all you know. Then again when WC3 started being broadcasted in Korea nothing much changed in the BW world really If Blizzard just made a visual revamp to BW, then I'm pretty sure it'll still be going strong(er than ever).
They would have also needed to be smart about the accessibility from the start. I believe in the beginning it was really hard for PC bangs to get SC2, because they needed to pay some expensive license or something. I'm not sure, though.
I'm not sure if just a revamp would have been the best thing, but maybe a revamp + some additional stuff, so basically like another addon.
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On October 02 2013 17:19 MikeMM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 16:24 myminerals wrote:On October 02 2013 14:54 UmberBane wrote:On October 02 2013 14:50 Rickyvalle21 wrote:
And so it continues. I wonder what warcraft3 forums was like everday when the game was dying. For convenience you could also check out some older BW posts BW was never dying and Kespa would still play it, and we would witness new OSL champions and crowded stadiums and new amazing games. All this could be our today's reality. SC2 better be alive and flourishing, I think we sacrificed too much for its sake. The problem is SC2 was really a huge disappointement in Korea. It was supposed to be better than BW and revive popularity of SC in Korea. Lets suppose that popularity of BW was really in decline. If SC2 was a better game than BW its popularity would have surpassed popularity of BW and would have matched LOL.
All is too late cuz OGN had chosen LoL to be their flagship content, Blizzard only has themselves to blame
And I cant imagine they would ever take magnificient measures like including LAN or changing their game design so yeah, starcraft might be hopeless in Korea
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On October 02 2013 17:36 UmberBane wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 17:31 1ntrigue wrote:On October 02 2013 17:05 UmberBane wrote:On October 02 2013 17:01 Lorch wrote:On October 02 2013 16:57 mongmong wrote:On October 02 2013 16:24 myminerals wrote:On October 02 2013 14:54 UmberBane wrote:On October 02 2013 14:50 Rickyvalle21 wrote:
And so it continues. I wonder what warcraft3 forums was like everday when the game was dying. For convenience you could also check out some older BW posts BW was never dying and Kespa would still play it, and we would witness new OSL champions and crowded stadiums and new amazing games. All this could be our today's reality. SC2 better be alive and flourishing, I think we sacrificed too much for its sake. Can you tell me why there was such a big time gap between jinair and tving starleague? I also want to to know why skt is sponsoring proleague. Youre dillusional if you really think broodwar wasnt dying Dude thats like totally natural and shit. Just like mbc game shutting down and fox/hero/hyte/oz disbanding. BW was totally on the up and up towards its end. The introduction of dota 2 to korea will also be really good for lol, competition and all you know. Then again when WC3 started being broadcasted in Korea nothing much changed in the BW world really If Blizzard just made a visual revamp to BW, then I'm pretty sure it'll still be going strong(er than ever). They would have also needed to be smart about the accessibility from the start. I believe in the beginning it was really hard for PC bangs to get SC2, because they needed to pay some expensive license or something. I'm not sure if just a revamp would have been the best thing, but maybe a revamp + some additional stuff, so basically like another addon.
I feel like if Blizzard released a SCII with 2010 graphics and BW unit pathing/AI, that would have raised some eyebrows. As a full-on sequel SCII is expected to have certain characteristics that any modern game would have, for better or worse.
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On October 02 2013 15:55 Dragoonstorm7 wrote:
There were... what 9-10 korean teams before the KeSPA switch?
Now theres 5gtsl + 6kespa (7 depending on stars) + Prime,MVP,IM = 14 (or15)
If carrying capacity was 9-10, I not going to say the sky is falling unless another 4or5 drop.
Same goes for players: If the player pool is at carrying capacity, and then doubles, it makes sense that many would retire.
Idk, thats just me tho.
Edit: somehow that sounded really negative while technically being optimistic at the same time...weird. o.O
This is what I have said for long time.
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On October 02 2013 17:40 slowbacontron wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 17:36 UmberBane wrote:On October 02 2013 17:31 1ntrigue wrote:On October 02 2013 17:05 UmberBane wrote:On October 02 2013 17:01 Lorch wrote:On October 02 2013 16:57 mongmong wrote:On October 02 2013 16:24 myminerals wrote:On October 02 2013 14:54 UmberBane wrote:On October 02 2013 14:50 Rickyvalle21 wrote:
And so it continues. I wonder what warcraft3 forums was like everday when the game was dying. For convenience you could also check out some older BW posts BW was never dying and Kespa would still play it, and we would witness new OSL champions and crowded stadiums and new amazing games. All this could be our today's reality. SC2 better be alive and flourishing, I think we sacrificed too much for its sake. Can you tell me why there was such a big time gap between jinair and tving starleague? I also want to to know why skt is sponsoring proleague. Youre dillusional if you really think broodwar wasnt dying Dude thats like totally natural and shit. Just like mbc game shutting down and fox/hero/hyte/oz disbanding. BW was totally on the up and up towards its end. The introduction of dota 2 to korea will also be really good for lol, competition and all you know. Then again when WC3 started being broadcasted in Korea nothing much changed in the BW world really If Blizzard just made a visual revamp to BW, then I'm pretty sure it'll still be going strong(er than ever). They would have also needed to be smart about the accessibility from the start. I believe in the beginning it was really hard for PC bangs to get SC2, because they needed to pay some expensive license or something. I'm not sure if just a revamp would have been the best thing, but maybe a revamp + some additional stuff, so basically like another addon. I feel like if Blizzard released a SCII with 2010 graphics and BW unit pathing/AI, that would have raised some eyebrows. As a full-on sequel SCII is expected to have certain characteristics that any modern game would have, for better or worse.
Oh yeah, at least in the West definitely, it would probably have been perceived as old fashioned and archaic by the mainstream game press. In Korea I think it wouldn't have been a problem. In hindsight it's always easy, but I think back then most people just kinda expected the Korean scene to take care of itself eventually, even if the game is different, simply because of how big SC1 was.
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On October 02 2013 17:36 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 17:33 LeLfe wrote:On October 02 2013 14:22 Dodgin wrote:On October 02 2013 14:19 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:ugh, just punch after punch to the stomach  as long as IM doesn't disband or lose all their sponsors I think I can survive this you might want to sit for a while... If you know something spit it out don't be a fucking tease
just rumors, but what I've heard from Korea is that they can't find an agreement with LG and that's not looking too good atm. But once again it's all rumors...
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On October 02 2013 17:43 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 15:55 Dragoonstorm7 wrote:
There were... what 9-10 korean teams before the KeSPA switch?
Now theres 5gtsl + 6kespa (7 depending on stars) + Prime,MVP,IM = 14 (or15)
If carrying capacity was 9-10, I not going to say the sky is falling unless another 4or5 drop.
Same goes for players: If the player pool is at carrying capacity, and then doubles, it makes sense that many would retire.
Idk, thats just me tho.
Edit: somehow that sounded really negative while technically being optimistic at the same time...weird. o.O This is what I have said for long time.
this is what they were saying about the wc3 scene in 2009. look at what happened...
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Although it's kindof expected to see this of thing happen, it still pains me every time ):
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So that leaves StarTale as the only financially stable eSF team?
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Remember a few months back when people thought the whole "esports is dying!" thing was just a joke? Yeah, not so funny now is it?
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On October 02 2013 17:46 LeLfe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 17:36 Dodgin wrote:On October 02 2013 17:33 LeLfe wrote:On October 02 2013 14:22 Dodgin wrote:On October 02 2013 14:19 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:ugh, just punch after punch to the stomach as long as IM doesn't disband or lose all their sponsors I think I can survive this you might want to sit for a while... If you know something spit it out don't be a fucking tease just rumors, but what I've heard from Korea is that they can't find an agreement with LG and that's not looking too good atm. But once again it's all rumors...
Er yeah we kind of already know that, I said disbands or loses ALL of their sponsors. Making vague cryptic(in a bad way) posts like that is going to give people the wrong idea.
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On October 02 2013 17:47 peidongyang wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 17:43 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On October 02 2013 15:55 Dragoonstorm7 wrote:
There were... what 9-10 korean teams before the KeSPA switch?
Now theres 5gtsl + 6kespa (7 depending on stars) + Prime,MVP,IM = 14 (or15)
If carrying capacity was 9-10, I not going to say the sky is falling unless another 4or5 drop.
Same goes for players: If the player pool is at carrying capacity, and then doubles, it makes sense that many would retire.
Idk, thats just me tho.
Edit: somehow that sounded really negative while technically being optimistic at the same time...weird. o.O This is what I have said for long time. this is what they were saying about the wc3 scene in 2009. look at what happened...
Kespa joined wc3, player pool and teams got double or? lol
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On October 02 2013 17:47 peidongyang wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 17:43 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On October 02 2013 15:55 Dragoonstorm7 wrote:
There were... what 9-10 korean teams before the KeSPA switch?
Now theres 5gtsl + 6kespa (7 depending on stars) + Prime,MVP,IM = 14 (or15)
If carrying capacity was 9-10, I not going to say the sky is falling unless another 4or5 drop.
Same goes for players: If the player pool is at carrying capacity, and then doubles, it makes sense that many would retire.
Idk, thats just me tho.
Edit: somehow that sounded really negative while technically being optimistic at the same time...weird. o.O This is what I have said for long time. this is what they were saying about the wc3 scene in 2009. look at what happened...
Not at all the same thing. A new game pushed and created by the same company who made WC3 in the same genre came in and helped push WC3 out. SC2 took players and viewers from WC3, LoL more than likely will only take viewers, as shown by the guys who attempted a LoL switch in Korea and then came back.
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On October 02 2013 17:40 slowbacontron wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 17:36 UmberBane wrote:On October 02 2013 17:31 1ntrigue wrote:On October 02 2013 17:05 UmberBane wrote:On October 02 2013 17:01 Lorch wrote:On October 02 2013 16:57 mongmong wrote:On October 02 2013 16:24 myminerals wrote:On October 02 2013 14:54 UmberBane wrote:On October 02 2013 14:50 Rickyvalle21 wrote:
And so it continues. I wonder what warcraft3 forums was like everday when the game was dying. For convenience you could also check out some older BW posts BW was never dying and Kespa would still play it, and we would witness new OSL champions and crowded stadiums and new amazing games. All this could be our today's reality. SC2 better be alive and flourishing, I think we sacrificed too much for its sake. Can you tell me why there was such a big time gap between jinair and tving starleague? I also want to to know why skt is sponsoring proleague. Youre dillusional if you really think broodwar wasnt dying Dude thats like totally natural and shit. Just like mbc game shutting down and fox/hero/hyte/oz disbanding. BW was totally on the up and up towards its end. The introduction of dota 2 to korea will also be really good for lol, competition and all you know. Then again when WC3 started being broadcasted in Korea nothing much changed in the BW world really If Blizzard just made a visual revamp to BW, then I'm pretty sure it'll still be going strong(er than ever). They would have also needed to be smart about the accessibility from the start. I believe in the beginning it was really hard for PC bangs to get SC2, because they needed to pay some expensive license or something. I'm not sure if just a revamp would have been the best thing, but maybe a revamp + some additional stuff, so basically like another addon. I feel like if Blizzard released a SCII with 2010 graphics and BW unit pathing/AI, that would have raised some eyebrows. As a full-on sequel SCII is expected to have certain characteristics that any modern game would have, for better or worse.
You can still fix pathing and AI in the parts where they were problematic without compromising the spirit of the original game. The thing is that SC2 didn't "fix" the things that were broken in BW, they implemented completely different mechanics based on different design principles.
You don't have to have Dragoons bumping into each other and getting stuck on corners to have a proper BW sequel. Just make sure the gameplay in general feels the same. You can fix pathfinding issues without making the units clump up into some sort of a goo ball, for example.
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I will blame battle.net 0.2
the lack of lan hurts the pc bangs. it's not the same to play a game without restrictions (BW, LoL) to try to play a game with the paywall of 60 dollars. and if you have in korea your sc2 license, your friends will not have it, so you will not be playing sc2 in pc bangs. the spawning option came too late.
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On October 02 2013 17:57 Penguinator wrote:
Remember a few months back when people thought the whole "esports is dying!" thing was just a joke? Yeah, not so funny now is it?
lolwut? As many have been saying (including myself) if a scene could only support 8ish teams before kespa came why did anyone expect we could magically support double? Also FXO is obv moving out of esports given that they sold the eu team and disbanded the na team before this. SC2 dying is still a huge joke. You guys wanna see a dying game? Take a look at quake.
I say if lotv either promotes spawning or has f2p multiplayer star 2 still has a chance of becoming the big game again, though I fail to see the need to even be the no1 game in korea. The issue is that if you are used to having f2p bw (either via fish or lan) and then the sequal has a 60+ dollar paywall while all your friends are talking about this new f2p teamgame, well not a shocker.
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On October 02 2013 18:06 Wingblade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 17:47 peidongyang wrote:On October 02 2013 17:43 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On October 02 2013 15:55 Dragoonstorm7 wrote:
There were... what 9-10 korean teams before the KeSPA switch?
Now theres 5gtsl + 6kespa (7 depending on stars) + Prime,MVP,IM = 14 (or15)
If carrying capacity was 9-10, I not going to say the sky is falling unless another 4or5 drop.
Same goes for players: If the player pool is at carrying capacity, and then doubles, it makes sense that many would retire.
Idk, thats just me tho.
Edit: somehow that sounded really negative while technically being optimistic at the same time...weird. o.O This is what I have said for long time. this is what they were saying about the wc3 scene in 2009. look at what happened... Not at all the same thing. A new game pushed and created by the same company who made WC3 in the same genre came in and helped push WC3 out. SC2 took players and viewers from WC3, LoL more than likely will only take viewers, as shown by the guys who attempted a LoL switch in Korea and then came back.
While I agree to some degree, I would still say that it does, but on another level. It's not about existing pro players switching, but about the new players and with that future pro players who choose to play one game over the other, which is problematic.
I agree though that there won't ever be a "mass exodus" kind of thing where actual SC2 pros would switch to LoL, for several reasons. Some former BW pros however did, some successfully, and some not, some as players, some as coaches. Besides that I think that bird has flown.
On October 02 2013 18:14 Lorch wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 17:57 Penguinator wrote:
Remember a few months back when people thought the whole "esports is dying!" thing was just a joke? Yeah, not so funny now is it? lolwut? As many have been saying (including myself) if a scene could only support 8ish teams before kespa came why did anyone expect we could magically support double? Also FXO is obv moving out of esports given that they sold the eu team and disbanded the na team before this. SC2 dying is still a huge joke. You guys wanna see a dying game? Take a look at quake.
Hey man, Quake is still alive! It's just resting.
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Getting hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
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On October 02 2013 17:47 peidongyang wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 17:43 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On October 02 2013 15:55 Dragoonstorm7 wrote:
There were... what 9-10 korean teams before the KeSPA switch?
Now theres 5gtsl + 6kespa (7 depending on stars) + Prime,MVP,IM = 14 (or15)
If carrying capacity was 9-10, I not going to say the sky is falling unless another 4or5 drop.
Same goes for players: If the player pool is at carrying capacity, and then doubles, it makes sense that many would retire.
Idk, thats just me tho.
Edit: somehow that sounded really negative while technically being optimistic at the same time...weird. o.O This is what I have said for long time. this is what they were saying about the wc3 scene in 2009. look at what happened...
The hell is that? Wc3 is a completely different story. The game got boring because one race was extincted and one was too abusive, and maps remained mostly the same after what, seven years.
Meanwhile the Korean scene basically ceased to exist since 2005, albeit a few attempts of MBC with the WWW series. It never gathered much success to begin with (hence the map scandal)
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EPT
