EPTGood changes to the oracle as well and thank the flying spaghetti monster for no sprinting DTs. Solid patch notes overall.
Updated Balance Test Map - Page 4
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
Good changes to the oracle as well and thank the flying spaghetti monster for no sprinting DTs. Solid patch notes overall. | ||
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pmp10
3396 Posts
On September 26 2013 05:25 Archas wrote: As someone who isn't as informed about the state of Terran as I'd like to be, how drastic can one expect the buff to Siege Tank attack time to be? A 0.3 second difference between volleys seems almost negligible to me, given how quickly a battle can start and finish, and the number of different units that can quickly close the gap and get inside a tank's blind spot. The buff will only really be significant in a long shootouts. For example it should make mech better against swarmhosts. Most other battles are decided way too fast for it to matter. On September 26 2013 05:34 Lorch wrote: They also removed the warhound that they worked for 2+ years on, because the community bitched for a week. Mech would probably be viable across the board if they hadn't, but hey that way we get to combine armory upgrades! That they removed it withing 2 weeks suggests that they didn't spent even 2 months on the unit. On September 26 2013 05:39 Squat wrote: I like that they're sticking to their guns with the widow mine nerf. It might not be popular, but it's likely necessary, can't just buff zerg until TvZ is fine, it would just break PvZ. That nerf is very popular and while it may leave PvZ alone it will break TvP instead. The difference being that it may take a year to fix terran while zerg/protoss problems are tackled much more quickly. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3509 Posts
Hope they come up with other new exciting changes for Protoss! | ||
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willoc
Canada1530 Posts
On September 26 2013 05:39 Squat wrote: I like that they're sticking to their guns with the widow mine nerf. It might not be popular, but it's likely necessary, can't just buff zerg until TvZ is fine, it would just break PvZ. Following that reasoning, it will break TvP no? | ||
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onPHYRE
Bulgaria925 Posts
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Lumi
United States1616 Posts
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fried_rice
198 Posts
On September 26 2013 05:52 willoc wrote: Following that reasoning, it will break TvP no? Except TvP is way more broken than ZvT, and none of these changes is even significant for TvP (except for PvT, where protoss gets free buffs) | ||
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Telenil
France484 Posts
On September 26 2013 05:52 willoc wrote: ? Few TvP battles were decisively affected by the splash radius of the widow mine, while a lot of TvZ certainly were.Following that reasoning, it will break TvP no? | ||
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KrazyTrumpet
United States2520 Posts
On September 26 2013 06:09 Lumi wrote: I hate to rain on the party of everyone who is excited about the oracle, but this acceleration and speed buff actually means that you literally can't run your workers away from them, ever. Before there was room for an oracle user to stutter step micro in the same direction as the workers, to kill off as many as it could before they actually got out of its range and stayed there. Now it really doesn't matter if you move your drones or not. This makes this the dumbest harass to view / 'defend' in the game, lol. Not to mention that there's like nothing that can catch this thing now. Complete silliness. Blizzard seems to love pulling random changes out of their bum to try with Protoss even more than with the other races. If you've properly scouted and put defenses in place, this isn't a problem. No different than being caught unprepared against banshees or mutas, imo. | ||
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Lumi
United States1616 Posts
On September 26 2013 06:16 KrazyTrumpet wrote: If you've properly scouted and put defenses in place, this isn't a problem. No different than being caught unprepared against banshees or mutas, imo. Except that this is faster than those units and it kills workers even quicker than both of them to begin with. It's faster to get in and faster to get away. The ability to shut it down even harder because a player really has to not be looking to lose this unit, with that speed. Do you like how banshee harass in tvt is close and scan radius and scan timings are relevant and sometimes people get the kill and sometimes they don't? Well that's not going to happen here. Zooooom. Plus it's a spellcaster with two other abilities. Come on now. | ||
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Qwyn
United States2781 Posts
Ok well never mind the zergling still has 4.6 or so movement speed...but still, that level of speed is just absurd. | ||
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KrazyTrumpet
United States2520 Posts
On September 26 2013 06:20 Lumi wrote: Except that this is faster than those units and it kills workers even quicker than both of them to begin with. Plus it's a spellcaster with two other abilities. Come on now. And more easily shut down. Zzzzzz On September 26 2013 06:21 Qwyn wrote: Ok, is the oracle now the fastest unit in the game with these changes? I would like to think that lings could outrun it if you microed >.>. Ok well never mind the zergling still has 4.6 or so movement speed...but still, that level of speed is just absurd. Pheonix is 4 speed, yes? edit: nope, 4.25 | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 26 2013 06:20 Lumi wrote: Except that this is faster than those units and it kills workers even quicker than both of them to begin with. Plus it's a spellcaster with two other abilities. Come on now. Muta and the oracle will move at the exact same speed. And you can't mass oracles like you can mutas. The workers will still be able to get away. | ||
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Lumi
United States1616 Posts
"Easier to shut down" than banshees is hilarious. And comparing whether you can or 'should' mass mutas or oracles as a way to attempt to compensate for or 'address' totally different matters is. lol. I'VE GOTTA GET OUT OF HERE | ||
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Qwyn
United States2781 Posts
On September 26 2013 06:21 KrazyTrumpet wrote: And more easily shut down. Zzzzzz Pheonix is 4 speed, yes? edit: nope, 4.25 In my mind, I held the horrible image of stimmed DTs. Under fear of certain doom, I neglected to consider an even faster threat! | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On September 26 2013 06:16 KrazyTrumpet wrote: If you've properly scouted and put defenses in place, this isn't a problem. No different than being caught unprepared against banshees or mutas, imo. The problem is that it seems they add stuff into game that makes you react/scout perfectly or just die. It happens to be Protoss that has those options. So now this is another thing you have to scout for and prepare otherwise you instantly lose the game. Something like DTs. You could say build Missile Turrets to defend both DTs and Oracles, but there is difference in turret placement. In high level games, if you missplace your Turret, your opponent is going to exploit this and you could lose the game from there. So you have to build more Missile Turrets (say 3), which is 300 minerals. Well, good luck defending some well thought Warpgate/Immortal bust.. Or Voidray allin, or you know, Blink allin, the list goes on.. This is the issue with Protoss allins. There are just so many of them. In early WoL days, 4gate was scary as fuck. I have died to it so many times, but then I learnt how to defend it and I was no longer scaret of it. Say there are 3 strong allins Protoss could do. Chances are you will learn them, defend them and start cutting corners, because noone would ever use them, because it is relatively easy to defend them if you scout them and react properly (this is how allin should work, right?). But if you cut too many corners, you will die from time to time to certain allin. The problem is, there are literally like 10 very strong allins or openers if you want Protoss can do that you can't just scout or guess correctly every game. On the other side, what do we have as Terrans? 15 min mark SCV pull. Nothing else works really. That hits after Protoss is done allining.. edit: Im not complaining, I like this patch and I will play the game as it is. But I feel like people need to understeand that it is not certain allin that is problematic, it is the fact there are so many of them and you really need to play on top of your game to not die one of them. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
I am a little bummed about the removal of the DT change, though. Speed DT would have been hilarious. Although, I agree that unless it was tied to an updrade like Charge at Twilight or at Shrine, then it would likely be horrendously OP. I do like the tweaks to the Oracle, though. Now, about reducing the mineral cost, Mr. Kim... | ||
iHirO
United Kingdom1381 Posts
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On September 26 2013 05:52 willoc wrote: Following that reasoning, it will break TvP no? Mines aren't nearly as big a part of TvP as they are in TvZ. | ||
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