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On September 25 2013 06:18 DomeGetta wrote:
So let me get this straight.
To date in the history of SC2 there has never been a foreign Terran to compete at the highest level of play.
You have had Stephano, you have had Naniwa - go ahead and try to name a Terran player that has had even close to their results. Code S balance is about as perfect as it ever has been since the game came out.. and the conclusion you draw from these facts is that we should make the widow mine unusable to set Terran back to WOL status (because that ended so well and balanced) against a zerg that now has vipers, faster overseers, a defense built into standard play to any possible early game all in outside of 11/11, better mutas, and worse infestors that are only worse now because they actually take micro to use? How is it not brutally obvious that this is an awful idea?
And oh yeah resetting the meta game every 3 months with nerfs and buffs to "make the game more fun to watch" is really helpful to the casual gamer.. believe me.. it's easy to stay masters MMR playing a few ladder games a week after work when the meta game changes every 3 months for no reason.
Keep up the awesome work.
Jinro GSL round of 4.
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This made me LOL - that is rich bro - first of all if you are comparing Stephano and Naniwa's results in SC2 to going deep in 1 tournament I think you already lost ... not to mention that this was pre any of the 500 nerfs that Terran has had. What are you gonna say next? Lucifron? lolol
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in long term battles the tank buff might help but im tvz the battles last like a few seconds, usually tanks can only get a couple shots off thus widow mines are way better. but now widow mines are gonna suck?
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On September 25 2013 06:58 DomeGetta wrote:
This made me LOL - that is rich bro - first of all if you are comparing Stephano and Naniwa's results in SC2 to going deep in 1 tournament I think you already lost ... not to mention that this was pre any of the 500 nerfs that Terran has had. What are you gonna say next? Lucifron? lolol
I don't know where you're from, but it's a bad idea to troll people here.
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What trolling is going on?
I asked someone to name a foreign Terran with comparable results to Stephano or Naniwa and he said Jinro.. that's him trolling me. Everything that I said is fact. Cool passive aggressive threat though man..
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On September 25 2013 07:16 DomeGetta wrote:
What trolling is going on?
I asked someone to name a foreign Terran with comparable results to Stephano or Naniwa and he said Jinro.. that's him trolling me. Everything that I said is fact. Cool passive aggressive threat though man..
people that have been on this forum a long time have a bit of a superiority complex
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On September 25 2013 07:16 DomeGetta wrote:
What trolling is going on?
I asked someone to name a foreign Terran with comparable results to Stephano or Naniwa and he said Jinro.. that's him trolling me. Everything that I said is fact. Cool passive aggressive threat though man..
Sorry, I guess it was just me. Posts with mocking "lols" tend to piss me off a bit too much.
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Haha anyways, my bad for railroading the thread.. and I have nothing against Jinro at all if you had to name the best foreign Terran in SC2 I'd say him for sure.. I was just throwing out some data that highlights why bringing wol back is a bad idea.. that is all. glhf
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On September 25 2013 07:25 DomeGetta wrote:
Haha anyways, my bad for railroading the thread.. and I have nothing against Jinro at all if you had to name the best foreign Terran in SC2 I'd say him for sure.. I was just throwing out some data that highlights why bringing wol back is a bad idea.. that is all. glhf
No trouble, it was mostly my fault.
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Looking at the mine radius picture, I cannot actually think of a reason to build mines with splash that size.
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On September 25 2013 07:16 DomeGetta wrote:
What trolling is going on?
I asked someone to name a foreign Terran with comparable results to Stephano or Naniwa and he said Jinro.. that's him trolling me. Everything that I said is fact. Cool passive aggressive threat though man..
It's a legit answer though. You asked for a Terran that was successful. Not only was Jinro's accomplishments better than Naniwa's or Huk's, it was also during the time when the gap between Koreans and Foreigners was the absolute widest, when even BAD koreans would completely route foreign competition.
Naniwa and Stephano came around during the time when it was already within reach to beat Koreans paved by the efforts of Huk, Ret and Idra during MLGs and Huk, Jinro, and Idra in GSL's.
When the metagame shifted towards a pure Terran domination during the GomTvT era--even Europe was dominated by Terran play albeit with very little interaction between foreign terrans and koreans. Stephano and Naniwa did not start showing noteriety until the metagame itself had shifted towards a more Protoss/Zerg leaning play style.
And being the two players who come closest to matching the Huk/Nani/Steph/Jinro results are Grubby and Idra--that's a fucking good short list of players.
But what you're really asking for is not "is there a terran who _____" but more specifically "Is there a foreign terran that plays similar to how Korean terrans play?"
And the answer to that is none right now.
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On September 25 2013 07:33 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 07:16 DomeGetta wrote:
What trolling is going on?
I asked someone to name a foreign Terran with comparable results to Stephano or Naniwa and he said Jinro.. that's him trolling me. Everything that I said is fact. Cool passive aggressive threat though man.. It's a legit answer though. You asked for a Terran that was successful. Not only was Jinro's accomplishments better than Naniwa's or Huk's, it was also during the time when the gap between Koreans and Foreigners was the absolute widest, when even BAD koreans would completely route foreign competition. Naniwa and Stephano came around during the time when it was already within reach to beat Koreans paved by the efforts of Huk, Ret and Idra during MLGs and Huk, Jinro, and Idra in GSL's. When the metagame shifted towards a pure Terran domination during the GomTvT era--even Europe was dominated by Terran play albeit with very little interaction between foreign terrans and koreans. Stephano and Naniwa did not start showing noteriety until the metagame itself had shifted towards a more Protoss/Zerg leaning play style. And being the two players who come closest to matching the Huk/Nani/Steph/Jinro results are Grubby and Idra--that's a fucking good short list of players. But what you're really asking for is not "is there a terran who _____" but more specifically "Is there a foreign terran that plays similar to how Korean terrans play?" And the answer to that is none right now.
I don't agree with that at all. In fact, I would say that it was close to being the opposite.
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all this whine, and protoss flame and overall childish writing, makes this thread unreadable, i wish a mod would come with the banhammer ,,,
every change seems cool at first reaction
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On September 25 2013 07:25 DomeGetta wrote:
Haha anyways, my bad for railroading the thread.. and I have nothing against Jinro at all if you had to name the best foreign Terran in SC2 I'd say him for sure.. I was just throwing out some data that highlights why bringing wol back is a bad idea.. that is all. glhf
Meh. You said no foreign Terran in the history of sc2 competed in the highest level. I brought up Jinro which is 100% accurate. Rather than admit you are wrong, you decide to move the goal posts. Can't say I'm too surprised.
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On September 25 2013 07:58 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 07:25 DomeGetta wrote:
Haha anyways, my bad for railroading the thread.. and I have nothing against Jinro at all if you had to name the best foreign Terran in SC2 I'd say him for sure.. I was just throwing out some data that highlights why bringing wol back is a bad idea.. that is all. glhf Meh. You said no foreign Terran in the history of sc2 competed in the highest level. I brought up Jinro which is 100% accurate. Rather than admit you are wrong, you decide to move the goal posts. Can't say I'm too surprised.
meh it was at a time terran still had tricks up there sleeve, like jinro beat mc with mech....
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On September 25 2013 07:41 Sein wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 07:33 Thieving Magpie wrote:On September 25 2013 07:16 DomeGetta wrote:
What trolling is going on?
I asked someone to name a foreign Terran with comparable results to Stephano or Naniwa and he said Jinro.. that's him trolling me. Everything that I said is fact. Cool passive aggressive threat though man.. It's a legit answer though. You asked for a Terran that was successful. Not only was Jinro's accomplishments better than Naniwa's or Huk's, it was also during the time when the gap between Koreans and Foreigners was the absolute widest, when even BAD koreans would completely route foreign competition. Naniwa and Stephano came around during the time when it was already within reach to beat Koreans paved by the efforts of Huk, Ret and Idra during MLGs and Huk, Jinro, and Idra in GSL's. When the metagame shifted towards a pure Terran domination during the GomTvT era--even Europe was dominated by Terran play albeit with very little interaction between foreign terrans and koreans. Stephano and Naniwa did not start showing noteriety until the metagame itself had shifted towards a more Protoss/Zerg leaning play style. And being the two players who come closest to matching the Huk/Nani/Steph/Jinro results are Grubby and Idra--that's a fucking good short list of players. But what you're really asking for is not "is there a terran who _____" but more specifically "Is there a foreign terran that plays similar to how Korean terrans play?" And the answer to that is none right now. I don't agree with that at all. In fact, I would say that it was close to being the opposite.
Lets agree to disagree then.
Back in those days, Koreans that were nobodies would own it up and run deep in everything they do. Loner was the only other foreign Terran making dents in Korean play but after his blizzcon match vs genius on scrap station he disappeared.
Now even top level Koreans loses games to foreign players. In early WoL, just winning a game here and there was more than enough reason to cheer.
But maybe I'm recalling different than you.
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On September 25 2013 07:11 EleanorRIgby wrote:
in long term battles the tank buff might help but im tvz the battles last like a few seconds, usually tanks can only get a couple shots off thus widow mines are way better. but now widow mines are gonna suck?
This buff could be the difference between getting 1 tank shot off vs getting 2 tank shots off (which is obviously huge).
Also with proper marine micro, map awareness and positioning I think "a few seconds" is a bit of an exaggeration.
Widow mines won't suck - their damage output, reasonable splash and the fact they require detection makes them worthwhile in most situations.
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I think widow mines should be nerfed just because they are so good against everything zerg oriented but i agree some more things need to be buffed in order to compete and the widow mine shouldn't be made shit, just nerf it a little. Maybe keep the range just decrease the AOE area or the damage.
It's not like playing against mech is easy.. thors+tanks+hellbats are still really good it's just that widow mines is easier
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On September 25 2013 08:14 Miscellany wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 07:11 EleanorRIgby wrote:
in long term battles the tank buff might help but im tvz the battles last like a few seconds, usually tanks can only get a couple shots off thus widow mines are way better. but now widow mines are gonna suck? This buff could be the difference between getting 1 tank shot off vs getting 2 tank shots off (which is obviously huge). Also with proper marine micro, map awareness and positioning I think "a few seconds" is a bit of an exaggeration. Widow mines won't suck - their damage output, reasonable splash and the fact they require detection makes them worthwhile in most situations.
Current tank attack cooldown means they fire 1-2 shots per engagement.
This speed increases that to 1-3 shots per engagements which is actually a 33% increase in DPS real world wise.
Slow attack units like Siege Tanks cares more for how many shots per engagement that bland statements like 10% increased attack speed or "10% increased DPS"
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On September 25 2013 06:18 DomeGetta wrote:
So let me get this straight.
To date in the history of SC2 there has never been a foreign Terran to compete at the highest level of play.
You have had Stephano, you have had Naniwa - go ahead and try to name a Terran player that has had even close to their results. Code S balance is about as perfect as it ever has been since the game came out.. and the conclusion you draw from these facts is that we should make the widow mine unusable to set Terran back to WOL status (because that ended so well and balanced) against a zerg that now has vipers, faster overseers, a defense built into standard play to any possible early game all in outside of 11/11, better mutas, and worse infestors that are only worse now because they actually take micro to use? How is it not brutally obvious that this is an awful idea?
And oh yeah resetting the meta game every 3 months with nerfs and buffs to "make the game more fun to watch" is really helpful to the casual gamer.. believe me.. it's easy to stay masters MMR playing a few ladder games a week after work when the meta game changes every 3 months for no reason.
Keep up the awesome work.
I would argue that Thorzain, while not particularly relevant at the moment, has had lots of strong finishes, 1st place in 2012 Dreamhack Stockholm probably being the most prestigious. But even aside from that arguing about balance because a foreigner Terran has not achieved the success of Stephano is silly because no other foreigner (of any race, as strong of a player as Naniwa is) has, either. Stephano is Stephano.
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United States7483 Posts
On September 25 2013 08:38 HeavenResign wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 06:18 DomeGetta wrote:
So let me get this straight.
To date in the history of SC2 there has never been a foreign Terran to compete at the highest level of play.
You have had Stephano, you have had Naniwa - go ahead and try to name a Terran player that has had even close to their results. Code S balance is about as perfect as it ever has been since the game came out.. and the conclusion you draw from these facts is that we should make the widow mine unusable to set Terran back to WOL status (because that ended so well and balanced) against a zerg that now has vipers, faster overseers, a defense built into standard play to any possible early game all in outside of 11/11, better mutas, and worse infestors that are only worse now because they actually take micro to use? How is it not brutally obvious that this is an awful idea?
And oh yeah resetting the meta game every 3 months with nerfs and buffs to "make the game more fun to watch" is really helpful to the casual gamer.. believe me.. it's easy to stay masters MMR playing a few ladder games a week after work when the meta game changes every 3 months for no reason.
Keep up the awesome work.
I would argue that Thorzain, while not particularly relevant at the moment, has had lots of strong finishes, 1st place in 2012 Dreamhack Stockholm probably being the most prestigious. But even aside from that arguing about balance because a foreigner Terran has not achieved the success of Stephano is silly because no other foreigner (of any race, as strong of a player as Naniwa is) has, either. Stephano is Stephano.
ThorZaIN also won TSL3 beating players like MC and Fruitdealer, at a time when everyone thought he was completely doomed. Afterword, MC said that he thought ThorZaIN was one of the best terrans in the world, even better than most Koreans.
But regardless, look to the korean scene for balance, not foreigner scene. Foreigners aren't as good, so balance at that level is less relevant. There certainly was lag involved, which hurts the results a little bit, but ThorZaIN beat Naniwa in the finals and beat really strong other players like Kas too.
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EPT
