EPTThe point again that I was intending to make - and my apologies for offending people - is that the game is balanced - so please stop messing with it for other reasons. It's frustrating for casual players (me - mid master NA) and I have to imagine it's infuriating for professional gamers - who make their living based on this game and who have to re-learn it every few months because we want to "freshen it up" for the viewers. It would be cool if they focused less on people who aren't even watching the game and more on people who play it and minimize the patching - unless statistically - over a long period of time (aka end of wol) one race is dominating the scene - which has not even come close to happening yet.
6 possible balance changes - David Kim - Page 62
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DomeGetta
480 Posts
The point again that I was intending to make - and my apologies for offending people - is that the game is balanced - so please stop messing with it for other reasons. It's frustrating for casual players (me - mid master NA) and I have to imagine it's infuriating for professional gamers - who make their living based on this game and who have to re-learn it every few months because we want to "freshen it up" for the viewers. It would be cool if they focused less on people who aren't even watching the game and more on people who play it and minimize the patching - unless statistically - over a long period of time (aka end of wol) one race is dominating the scene - which has not even come close to happening yet. | ||
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plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
On September 25 2013 08:21 Thieving Magpie wrote: Current tank attack cooldown means they fire 1-2 shots per engagement. This speed increases that to 1-3 shots per engagements which is actually a 33% increase in DPS real world wise. Slow attack units like Siege Tanks cares more for how many shots per engagement that bland statements like 10% increased attack speed or "10% increased DPS" A well positioned tank will definitely fire more than 3 shots - in which case the 'real world' DPS gain is less than 33%. Nevertheless, I welcome changes in small increments and would argue for a smaller nerf to widow-mine radius. | ||
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Suikakuju
Germany238 Posts
On September 25 2013 09:11 DomeGetta wrote: You guys talking about Thorzain and Jinro aren't wrong in saying that they have, in their careers, at single tournaments competed at a high level.. What I was saying, however, is that no foreign Terran has ever been a consistent face at the highest level of play during any meta game ever - while members of both other races certainly have. This is because the race - independent of balance - is the most difficult to play well. One tournament run doesn't fit the criteria I'm talking about. I'm not talking about the foreigner scene or the Korean scene - I'm talking about the global scene. And if you want to talk about the Korean scene, just look at how DRG dealt with Innovation in the last round.. yes he was just eliminated by a Protoss/Zerg combo in ro16- but he did showcase how to deal with bio/mine textbook. We aren't even going to wait and see how this is replicated by even stronger players ? The point again that I was intending to make - and my apologies for offending people - is that the game is balanced - so please stop messing with it for other reasons. It's frustrating for casual players (me - mid master NA) and I have to imagine it's infuriating for professional gamers - who make their living based on this game and who have to re-learn it every few months because we want to "freshen it up" for the viewers. It would be cool if they focused less on people who aren't even watching the game and more on people who play it and minimize the patching - unless statistically - over a long period of time (aka end of wol) one race is dominating the scene - which has not even come close to happening yet. Thinking about Macro mechanics like Inject, MULE, CB I honestly cant see were Terran is the most difficulty race to play. I remember a time when it was the other way around, its quite hard to always inject at the excact moment it is ready. on the other hand its quite good to have more mule at the same time :p Maybe I missed the timing when inject got easy to handle... | ||
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rysecake
United States2632 Posts
On September 25 2013 09:20 Suikakuju wrote: Thinking about Macro mechanics like Inject, MULE, CB I honestly cant see were Terran is the most difficulty race to play. I remember a time when it was the other way around, its quite hard to always inject at the excact moment it is ready. on the other hand its quite good to have more mule at the same time :p Maybe I missed the timing when inject got easy to handle... because macro is the only part of the game... | ||
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Suikakuju
Germany238 Posts
On September 25 2013 09:21 rysecake wrote: because macro is the only part of the game... Well it is not, but hey I dont give a fuck about how many worker you killed from me! I got MULES! xD | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On September 25 2013 09:14 plogamer wrote: A well positioned tank will definitely fire more than 3 shots - in which case the 'real world' DPS gain is less than 33%. Nevertheless, I welcome changes in small increments and would argue for a smaller nerf to widow-mine radius. I was thinking more the moving out on the map and fighting Muta/Ling/Bling  Defensive tank play and tank play once you're actually sieging a base is very different | ||
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Sabu113
United States11075 Posts
On September 25 2013 09:21 rysecake wrote: because macro is the only part of the game... But clicking back and forth frantically- height of thoughtful control. The hardest race nonsense was always apologia for why Foreign terrans were so shit even during times like Gom TvT. Never bought into the argument that terran macro is as difficult as the other races. It's just that terrans get the intiiative earlier and longer than the other races. I think the majority of the bitching about the lategame comes from the relative power advantage terrans tend to have for the early game and midgame. | ||
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On September 25 2013 09:25 Suikakuju wrote: Well it is not, but hey I dont give a fuck about how many worker you killed from me! I got MULES! xD It's more like the amount of attention required to do things. I've always felt like Zerg macro is the easiest because Zerg is the race that is required to look back at their base the least, you only need to build 1 of a tech structure to 'unlock' that tech then you can make those units from larva without and set them to the correct army control groups without ever having to look back at your bases. Injects hardly count as looking back at your base since they happen so quickly (queen hotkey f1 v click f2 v click ect) and because they work on a consistent timer they aren't incredibly hard to execute. Likewise with supply, you dont have to look back at your base and you dont have to worry about placement. Terran macro requires the most attention because you have to manage buildings / building placement, add-ons / add-on swapping, MULEs, ect, in addition to everything Zerg has to do minus injects (creep spread could be argued as well), and all while having an army that's survivability relies on your ability to control it. Just as an example, in an intense ling / bling war if a zerg needs to build an overlord they can quickly press their hatch hotkey + overlord hotkey while still watching their army and being able to micro if necessary. A Terran player would have to look back at their base and choose a location to place the depot, spending more time and not allowing them to watch their army directly, only via minimap. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On September 25 2013 09:42 Pursuit_ wrote: It's more like the amount of attention required to do things. I've always felt like Zerg macro is the easiest because Zerg is the race that is required to look back at their base the least, you only need to build 1 of a tech structure to 'unlock' that tech then you can make those units from larva without and set them to the correct army control groups without ever having to look back at your bases. Injects hardly count as looking back at your base since they happen so quickly (queen hotkey f1 v click f2 v click ect) and because they work on a consistent timer they aren't incredibly hard to execute. Likewise with supply, you dont have to look back at your base and you dont have to worry about placement. Terran macro requires the most attention because you have to manage buildings / building placement, add-ons / add-on swapping, MULEs, ect, in addition to everything Zerg has to do minus injects (creep spread could be argued as well), and all while having an army that's survivability relies on your ability to control it. Just as an example, in an intense ling / bling war if a zerg needs to build an overlord they can quickly press their hatch hotkey + overlord hotkey while still watching their army and being able to micro if necessary. A Terran player would have to look back at their base and choose a location to place the depot, spending more time and not allowing them to watch their army directly, only via minimap. It's not hard to queue depots at all... Terran macro is def easier in that regard imo. You also didn't mention Zerg spreading creep. Also, midbattle is not typically a time you need to build depots as your units are dying. Midbattle is still a time you will need to inject (or possibly CB). Zerg is more forgiving in the sense though if you get supply blocked, you can accumulate the larvae in the meantime. Terran is the least forgiving in that part, but at the same time they have supply call down. Toss is annoying in the sense you have to go back somewhere else to build units. | ||
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plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
On September 25 2013 09:31 Thieving Magpie wrote: I was thinking more the moving out on the map and fighting Muta/Ling/Bling Defensive tank play and tank play once you're actually sieging a base is very different Good positioning isn't limited to only defensive play though. | ||
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DomeGetta
480 Posts
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Sentient42
United States69 Posts
On September 25 2013 09:20 Suikakuju wrote: Thinking about Macro mechanics like Inject, MULE, CB I honestly cant see were Terran is the most difficulty race to play. I remember a time when it was the other way around, its quite hard to always inject at the excact moment it is ready. on the other hand its quite good to have more mule at the same time :p Maybe I missed the timing when inject got easy to handle... Inject got easy to handle when people learned with proper camera and action hotkeys you can inject all your hatcheries in less than a second without even clicking. Zerg benefits by far the most after changing the default layout, not only with inject but tumor placement and infestor use. | ||
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9-BiT
United States1089 Posts
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goody153
44239 Posts
well the armor upgrades was already combined .. i was surprised why the attack upgrades are not combined its kinda weird .. i am ok with this .. i am just kinda concerned on how tvt meta will change because of this .. tvt meta is wonderful today .. bio play might get eliminated in tvt .. although i agree with what they say that they could mix vikings/hellbats more easier .. Widow mine splash radius decreased from 1.75 to 1.1 arent they nerfing the splash radius too much ? 1.3 or 1.4 is fine ... but 1.1 is just a bit too much .. and removing the drilling claws is a more appropriate nerf Siege tank attack period decreased from 3 to 2.7 sounds good .. i dont think this will change tvp Oracle cost decreased from 150/150 to 150/100 this is fine .. oracle dont really do a damn thing in large army confrontations .. at least oracle will be more used this way .. more like banshee's Dark Templar movement speed increased from 2.813 to 3.375 interesting .. more microable DT's .. turrets every base will be a staple of tvp ... i think this is good .. at least it will make the dt's not a suicide unit anymore .. all dts do is being built and die while doing damage as much as possible Roach speed upgrade also increases the burrowed roach movement speed from 1.41 to 2.25 sounds good .. nothing really changes with this .. only varierty on gameplays overall i am ok with everything aside from the mine nerf .. its a bit too much and also i think removing the drilling claws is better | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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sorrowptoss
Canada1431 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On September 25 2013 10:51 sorrowptoss wrote: DT speed buff? lol will definitely be hilarious to watch... thumbs down. Still a weaker harass option that Shuttle/Reaver  | ||
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DjRetro
Chile309 Posts
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convention
United States622 Posts
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pedduck
Thailand468 Posts
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