On October 31 2013 03:55 Wombat_NI wrote: Case in point, you start vanilla SC as a colonial Marshall right? Zerg appear, Duke is being useless, Raynor saves your hide. By accepting his help you are effectively an enemy of the confederacy so there is this feeling of having your destiny intertwined with the named characters.
Protoss similar again, Zerg show up, shit hits the fan on Aiur, Fenix dies plus returns (so beautiful). Tassadar and his heretical pursuit of finding the Dark Templar, all of which you the nameless but REFERRED TO Executor are privy to. You can't choose the arc, but you were there. Briefing screen you're chilling and planning etc.
I actually enjoyed walking around between every SC2 mission and chatting (mostly to my good buddy Abathur, but I never got the feeling that I was a part of the overall shebang. A simple 'Sup Executor?' (or racial equivalent) would have been an improvement.
That said, to me (regardless of the aforementioned women's gossip mag-esque plot) prophecy arcs generally blow because they give me the feeling of complete uninvolvement in proceedings
I think they simply took the "written in the stars" comment Duran made a bit too seriously. The secret mission in BW was the dumbest part of the campaign.
On October 31 2013 03:55 Wombat_NI wrote: Case in point, you start vanilla SC as a colonial Marshall right? Zerg appear, Duke is being useless, Raynor saves your hide. By accepting his help you are effectively an enemy of the confederacy so there is this feeling of having your destiny intertwined with the named characters.
Protoss similar again, Zerg show up, shit hits the fan on Aiur, Fenix dies plus returns (so beautiful). Tassadar and his heretical pursuit of finding the Dark Templar, all of which you the nameless but REFERRED TO Executor are privy to. You can't choose the arc, but you were there. Briefing screen you're chilling and planning etc.
I actually enjoyed walking around between every SC2 mission and chatting (mostly to my good buddy Abathur, but I never got the feeling that I was a part of the overall shebang. A simple 'Sup Executor?' (or racial equivalent) would have been an improvement.
That said, to me (regardless of the aforementioned women's gossip mag-esque plot) prophecy arcs generally blow because they give me the feeling of complete uninvolvement in proceedings
I think they simply took the "written in the stars" comment Duran made a bit too seriously. The secret mission in BW was the dumbest part of the campaign.
I thought the sense of impending, yet unspecified doom was pretty cool. It set up the stage, but in SC2 it all went wrong as it somehow became the focal point of the entire lore. Hinting at things and offering small glimpses is often so much more effective than shoving the whole story in the player's face, with no real room for interpretation or imagination. Now with the big villain already revealed and Kerrigan having taken off to fight some impossible battle, it's going to be Zeratul who finds some deus ex machina super duper gummibear juice and that will be that.
That, or the voice in the closet or whatever it was just fucking kills everyone and the game ends with a giant trollface logo, something I would strongly support at this point.
Also, having real strong characters(strong as in taking up lots of space in the narrative) as the player avatar is usually a bad idea. It's almost impossible to feel anything but annoyed with any of the characters in SC2 that are supposed to represent the player, because they're all idiots and/or completely erratic and irrational. Zero immersion.
Amon isn't even a real character. Did literally nobody at Blizzard notice that it makes no sense to promote a Xel'Naga science advisor to "Fallen God, older and more powerful than the universe, that can be resurrected"? Weren't the Xel'Naga just some race with highly advanced capabilities? Amon functions somewhat like Sauron in the Numenor arc, a sly advisor with a sinister purpose, but since he doesn't have a special god-like origin I fail to see why he should have any absurd individual power.
I mean, the Starcraft lore is very vulnerable to this. I for one don't understand the specific threat that Kerrigan posed outside of her leadership capabilities. A nuke or a few shots from a rocket launcher will still kill her after all, her combat strength hardly matters. Insect hives are very resilient, in any case, if you kill their queen a new one will be formed, and after Tassadar dispatched of the overmind several cerebrates merged together to create a new version and cause more trouble. I think that the in-fighting zerg queens were mentioned as a recent Kerrigan invention?
But this is Starcraft as imagined by Chris Metzen, comic book fan, who envisions Kerrigan leveling up at Zerus as the best method to help her deal with Mengsk. Personally I would be concerned with getting some sort of army if I wanted to invade a planet, but what do I know..
On October 31 2013 04:34 Grumbels wrote: Amon isn't even a real character. Did literally nobody at Blizzard notice that it makes no sense to promote a Xel'Naga science advisor to "Fallen God, older and more powerful than the universe, that can be resurrected"? Weren't the Xel'Naga just some race with highly advanced capabilities? Amon functions somewhat like Sauron in the Numenor arc, a sly advisor with a sinister purpose, but since he doesn't have a special god-like origin I fail to see why he should have any absurd individual power.
I mean, the Starcraft lore is very vulnerable to this. I for one don't understand the specific threat that Kerrigan posed outside of her leadership capabilities. A nuke or a few shots from a rocket launcher will still kill her after all, her combat strength hardly matters. Insect hives are very resilient, in any case, if you kill their queen a new one will be formed, and after Tassadar dispatched of the overmind several cerebrates merged together to create a new version and cause more trouble. I think that the in-fighting zerg queens were mentioned as a recent Kerrigan invention?
But this is Starcraft as imagined by Chris Metzen, comic book fan, who envisions Kerrigan leveling up at Zerus as the best method to help her deal with Mengsk. Personally I would be concerned with getting some sort of army if I wanted to invade a planet, but what do I know..
That's what made her and Mengsk so cool in BW, individuals were defined by their personality and their force of will, not ability to tear apart battlecruisers with a gesture. I recall that hero units, Zeratul and Kerrigan in particular, were very powerful, but could still get ripped up in seconds if used recklessly. They felt more like very powerful people and less like unstoppable demigods.
In HotS I felt like the whole setting was like Queen, with Kerrigan as Freddy Mercury and the rest of the band being everyone else.
On October 31 2013 04:43 Thieving Magpie wrote: I think it's dumb to have evil xel naga since the over mind already beat them in the lore.
I feel safe is saying that all video game stories are pretty dumb. Only recently have they become passable. We remember BWs story was just as terrible, but we were all young and did not have refined palets
On October 31 2013 04:43 Thieving Magpie wrote: I think it's dumb to have evil xel naga since the over mind already beat them in the lore.
I feel safe is saying that all video game stories are pretty dumb. Only recently have they become passable. We remember BWs story was just as terrible, but we were all young and did not have refined palets
I only recently replayed the BW campaign, I found it hugely more entertaining both from a gameplay and narrative perspective.
Some games have good story arcs, I really liked Arkham Asylum and City, Mass Effect 1 and 2 also. Oh, and Diablo 3 of course, the pinnacle of interactive storytelling.
On October 31 2013 04:43 Thieving Magpie wrote: I think it's dumb to have evil xel naga since the over mind already beat them in the lore.
I feel safe is saying that all video game stories are pretty dumb. Only recently have they become passable. We remember BWs story was just as terrible, but we were all young and did not have refined palets
The reason it bugs me is that Zerg was like the Frankenstein's monster to me. They didn't feel scary until I read the booklet that came with the game, killers of their masters. WoL felt like silly side missions to me, but HoTS felt like rewriting the story from chapter 0 onward.
Zerg was supposed to be God's mistake running rampant on the world. Creatures that were too evil even for the Xel Naga to control, too pure of being to be stopped by science and technology. It felt like it was hopeless to fight them since a race of beings far more advanced than either Protoss OR Terran have already fallen under the heel of the swarm. Now it turns out that entire booklet is a lie.
One xel naga is now more powerful than the swarm. Prophecies, train robberies, etc... It feels like the sense of hopelessness is gone.
On October 30 2013 08:04 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Guys, the new C&C game coming out will be the best RTS game ever made. Everyone will stop playing Starcraft and none of this will matter.
edit- EA just cancelled the new C&C and fired everyone and shut down the entire RTS game studio
I do agree though with the crux of your point, unfortunate choice of analogy in my case :p [/QUOTE]
The United States, being caught for all their scandals spying, government at home ect. Having to reform, or face a revolt by the people.[/QUOTE] Huh? What are you talking about?
I do agree though with the crux of your point, unfortunate choice of analogy in my case :p
The United States, being caught for all their scandals spying, government at home ect. Having to reform, or face a revolt by the people.[/QUOTE] Huh? What are you talking about?[/QUOTE]
Turn on CNN.
Better yet
just relate everything he says to TL, and the truth as a High Templar you shall see
2. Story. I've tried to finger why, and there are many reasons to me. Chief for me, maybe not for others is no longer being immersed, which I figured was due to two main factors. WHO are you in SC2? You seem to be just somebody either observing the protagonists doing their thing, like a narrator, or are actually the characters themselves? In the originals you are an adjutant [sic], or a cerebrate or whatever. Now this may sound minor but it created a real feeling of immersion in the story for me. You're a military coordinator, not in charge of the 'big picture' in terms of strategy, but entrusted with organising the troops in the field, without you the overarching plot arms can't really happen. SC2s story IMO missed this link, I think I'm right but maybe not, anyway I wont risk a thread on the topic :p
On October 31 2013 03:29 Wombat_NI wrote:
Does anybody agree with me on the 'who you are' flaw in the campaign? I don't know, I just really feel disconnected from the goings-on in the Koprulu sector now. Other problems such as the soap-esque story I find problematic, but to me that's a bad narrative arc and distinct from the idea of immersing you, the player in the events.
Wow...actually I never even thought of that before but you're right.
I actually kinda like the SC2 story. I didn't have my hopes set very high and its been adequate enough to be entertaining, if a little silly. I always found Blizzard stories to be quite hammy and felt SC2 fit in well with that. But yeah, now that you mention it there was definitely something lost in the feeling of being "involved".
If you want a good example of it look at Command and Conquer. In the C&C games you're always explicitly a Commander being given orders or being in briefings (I think literally every C&C game is like that). You're referred to and talked to directly in the cut scenes. And hearing the AI's voice saying "Welcome back, Commander" always raised a smile because it really drew me into the game which is quite hard to do with an RTS since its a lot more of an objective playing viewpoint than most types of game.
Not having that kind of thing for SC2 was something of a disappointment in retrospect. Missed opportunity.
On October 30 2013 08:04 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Guys, the new C&C game coming out will be the best RTS game ever made. Everyone will stop playing Starcraft and none of this will matter.
edit- EA just cancelled the new C&C and fired everyone and shut down the entire RTS game studio
Yeah, and you know the reasoning for it? Because they wanted to make it competitive multiplayer focused instead of campaign/singleplayer focused. And the reception for that route was very bad right from the start.
--> Stop shitting on SC2, the problem is that people don't worship the genre anymore.
On October 30 2013 08:04 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Guys, the new C&C game coming out will be the best RTS game ever made. Everyone will stop playing Starcraft and none of this will matter.
edit- EA just cancelled the new C&C and fired everyone and shut down the entire RTS game studio
Yeah, and you know the reasoning for it? Because they wanted to make it competitive multiplayer focused instead of campaign/singleplayer focused. And the reception for that route was very bad right from the start.
--> Stop shitting on SC2, the problem is that people don't worship the genre anymore.
no it was cause the game fucking sucked and was pay2win, pls dont use c&c as any kind of excuse. Yes rts is in decline but i bet if this game would have been good and wouldnt have been a pay2win game, c&c would have been played A LOT.
just relate everything he says to TL, and the truth as a High Templar you shall see
That was one of the dumbest freshman-undergrad political theorycrafting I have ever heard.
Its Russell Brand. What do you expect? :-\
People have been posting that all over my facebook talking about how he "gets" it and how he schools some old guy. NEver had time to watch it till it popped up on TL and its ridiculous. Le sigh....
EPT
