Well, what goes around comes around. 2-3 years ago, same things were happening in the BW scene, SC2 fans all going "YAAAAAY PLZ COME TO SC2" and shit. I guess they now understand how BW fans felt that time, because now they are feeling the exact same thing. Still, it's sad to see SC2 scene falling apart this fast.
On September 18 2013 22:39 edlover420 wrote: I think a quality free to play RTS game could be extremely successful, if it was enjoyable to play casually versus friends and if it would be player friendly.
In my opinion the main problem with starcraft 2 is the price and a simple fact that most people just don't really find it fun to play at all...
I hate to break it to you, most people don't enjoy RTS games as a multiplayer game. Most people never touch the competitive aspect of any RTS game because they know how hard it will be. All my friends who know I play SC2 competitively say the same thing "But I will have to deal with people cheesing me, right?" and I have to answer yes. Most folks do not enjoy the super stressful aspect of SC2 or any RTS game. But it that stress and variety of gameplay that defines them.
I played BW endlessly even while games like Dota and CS existed, it's not RTS genre it's the fact that Sc2 just isn't as fun as BW was, this is a simple problem that people try to ignore and it sucks I know but it's true for a lot of people. If BW got a graphical update and similiar "Dota" treatment ala valve (cool community building stuff like tournament tickets etc) you can bet it would demolish Sc2 and be a serious contender on the competitive market.
Regardless sad to see beasty go, always enjoyed watching his games back in WOL but can't say his decision to switch to LoL is a bad one.
I am just talking raw stats and units bought to number of people who play multiplayer. RTS games have always had a very low number of people who get super deep into competitive multiplayer. Every company that makes them has stated this. It is more due to the nature of RTS games themselves, rather than SC2.
RTS wasn't in decline. BW and Dota 1 co-existed just fine for many years.
Coexist is an exaggerate word. BW was never big outside of Korea. Before SC2, this Teamliquid.net forum had only like couple hundred posters at most. BW was more like a hobby than a career/game to die for. A lot of people did what we are doing right now, aka not playing the game or play very casual (1 game/week) but just sit around and talk about the game. Every scene, even fighting, or AoE scene were bigger than BW preSC2.
On September 19 2013 04:22 Djagulingu wrote: Well, what goes around comes around. 2-3 years ago, same things were happening in the BW scene, SC2 fans all going "YAAAAAY PLZ COME TO SC2" and shit. I guess they now understand how BW fans felt that time, because now they are feeling the exact same thing. Still, it's sad to see SC2 scene falling apart this fast.
How scene is falling apart lol?
We have more progamers than ever. Look at WCS, you see new players coming all the time. (at least EU)
Im still wating to see at least 5-6 koreanprogamers to retire (and that's good thing). In korea is WAAAAAAAAAAY too much progamers.
I understand retirement totaly if you havent made any results for longtime. GG Beasty!
On September 18 2013 22:39 edlover420 wrote: I think a quality free to play RTS game could be extremely successful, if it was enjoyable to play casually versus friends and if it would be player friendly.
In my opinion the main problem with starcraft 2 is the price and a simple fact that most people just don't really find it fun to play at all...
I hate to break it to you, most people don't enjoy RTS games as a multiplayer game. Most people never touch the competitive aspect of any RTS game because they know how hard it will be. All my friends who know I play SC2 competitively say the same thing "But I will have to deal with people cheesing me, right?" and I have to answer yes. Most folks do not enjoy the super stressful aspect of SC2 or any RTS game. But it that stress and variety of gameplay that defines them.
I played BW endlessly even while games like Dota and CS existed, it's not RTS genre it's the fact that Sc2 just isn't as fun as BW was, this is a simple problem that people try to ignore and it sucks I know but it's true for a lot of people. If BW got a graphical update and similiar "Dota" treatment ala valve (cool community building stuff like tournament tickets etc) you can bet it would demolish Sc2 and be a serious contender on the competitive market.
Regardless sad to see beasty go, always enjoyed watching his games back in WOL but can't say his decision to switch to LoL is a bad one.
I am just talking raw stats and units bought to number of people who play multiplayer. RTS games have always had a very low number of people who get super deep into competitive multiplayer. Every company that makes them has stated this. It is more due to the nature of RTS games themselves, rather than SC2.
RTS wasn't in decline. BW and Dota 1 co-existed just fine for many years.
Coexist is an exaggerate word. BW was never big outside of Korea. Before SC2, this Teamliquid.net forum had only like couple hundred posters at most. BW was more like a hobby than a career/game to die for. A lot of people did what we are doing right now, aka not playing the game or play very casual (1 game/week) but just sit around and talk about the game. Every scene, even fighting, or AoE scene were bigger than BW preSC2.
Lots of missinformation. 1. TL was far more bigger than 200 posters. 2. BW was being played nonstop in PC bangs and home lans (AND not only in Korea). Just because internet sucked back then doesnt mean people didn't play bw. 3. Other games couldn't take over Korea, coz bw provided enough fun for casuals and epic shows for viewers. Which sc2 didnt manage to do, therefore losing players/viewers to other games.
On September 18 2013 22:39 edlover420 wrote: I think a quality free to play RTS game could be extremely successful, if it was enjoyable to play casually versus friends and if it would be player friendly.
In my opinion the main problem with starcraft 2 is the price and a simple fact that most people just don't really find it fun to play at all...
I hate to break it to you, most people don't enjoy RTS games as a multiplayer game. Most people never touch the competitive aspect of any RTS game because they know how hard it will be. All my friends who know I play SC2 competitively say the same thing "But I will have to deal with people cheesing me, right?" and I have to answer yes. Most folks do not enjoy the super stressful aspect of SC2 or any RTS game. But it that stress and variety of gameplay that defines them.
I played BW endlessly even while games like Dota and CS existed, it's not RTS genre it's the fact that Sc2 just isn't as fun as BW was, this is a simple problem that people try to ignore and it sucks I know but it's true for a lot of people. If BW got a graphical update and similiar "Dota" treatment ala valve (cool community building stuff like tournament tickets etc) you can bet it would demolish Sc2 and be a serious contender on the competitive market.
Regardless sad to see beasty go, always enjoyed watching his games back in WOL but can't say his decision to switch to LoL is a bad one.
I am just talking raw stats and units bought to number of people who play multiplayer. RTS games have always had a very low number of people who get super deep into competitive multiplayer. Every company that makes them has stated this. It is more due to the nature of RTS games themselves, rather than SC2.
RTS wasn't in decline. BW and Dota 1 co-existed just fine for many years.
Coexist is an exaggerate word. BW was never big outside of Korea. Before SC2, this Teamliquid.net forum had only like couple hundred posters at most. BW was more like a hobby than a career/game to die for. A lot of people did what we are doing right now, aka not playing the game or play very casual (1 game/week) but just sit around and talk about the game. Every scene, even fighting, or AoE scene were bigger than BW preSC2.
Lots of missinformation. 1. TL was far more bigger than 200 posters. 2. BW was being played nonstop in PC bangs and home lans (AND not only in Korea). Just because internet sucked back then doesnt mean people didn't play bw. 3. Other games couldn't take over Korea, coz bw provided enough fun for casuals and epic shows for viewers. Which sc2 didnt manage to do, therefore losing players/viewers to other games.
He is 100% correct that BW was never big outside of KR. I don't know how it compared to other RTS games of the time, but the game was never huge. SC2 is has had the largest impact world wide(aka, not limited to Korea) of any RTS game out there when it comes to competitive Esports.
On September 18 2013 22:39 edlover420 wrote: I think a quality free to play RTS game could be extremely successful, if it was enjoyable to play casually versus friends and if it would be player friendly.
In my opinion the main problem with starcraft 2 is the price and a simple fact that most people just don't really find it fun to play at all...
I hate to break it to you, most people don't enjoy RTS games as a multiplayer game. Most people never touch the competitive aspect of any RTS game because they know how hard it will be. All my friends who know I play SC2 competitively say the same thing "But I will have to deal with people cheesing me, right?" and I have to answer yes. Most folks do not enjoy the super stressful aspect of SC2 or any RTS game. But it that stress and variety of gameplay that defines them.
I played BW endlessly even while games like Dota and CS existed, it's not RTS genre it's the fact that Sc2 just isn't as fun as BW was, this is a simple problem that people try to ignore and it sucks I know but it's true for a lot of people. If BW got a graphical update and similiar "Dota" treatment ala valve (cool community building stuff like tournament tickets etc) you can bet it would demolish Sc2 and be a serious contender on the competitive market.
Regardless sad to see beasty go, always enjoyed watching his games back in WOL but can't say his decision to switch to LoL is a bad one.
I am just talking raw stats and units bought to number of people who play multiplayer. RTS games have always had a very low number of people who get super deep into competitive multiplayer. Every company that makes them has stated this. It is more due to the nature of RTS games themselves, rather than SC2.
RTS wasn't in decline. BW and Dota 1 co-existed just fine for many years.
Coexist is an exaggerate word. BW was never big outside of Korea. Before SC2, this Teamliquid.net forum had only like couple hundred posters at most. BW was more like a hobby than a career/game to die for. A lot of people did what we are doing right now, aka not playing the game or play very casual (1 game/week) but just sit around and talk about the game. Every scene, even fighting, or AoE scene were bigger than BW preSC2.
Lots of missinformation. 1. TL was far more bigger than 200 posters. 2. BW was being played nonstop in PC bangs and home lans (AND not only in Korea). Just because internet sucked back then doesnt mean people didn't play bw. 3. Other games couldn't take over Korea, coz bw provided enough fun for casuals and epic shows for viewers. Which sc2 didnt manage to do, therefore losing players/viewers to other games.
1. Are we talking about active posters or just random posters? Because I don't think there were more than 200 active posters. 2. BW may be played nonstop in YOUR circle, but the overall gaming scene, BW was really small. It was played on LAN in internet cafe/pc bangs, but after WC3 came out which is 2002, most people don't care about BW anymore. Remember that most gamers in local internet cafe/pc bangs are casual players. Noone knows jack about the Korean pro scene. I can't remember any internet cafe/PC bangs that I've been in that still install BW past 2003, besides some version like Gundam. 3. I don't see how it has anything to do with my statement, which BW was never big outside Korea....
On September 18 2013 09:59 jbeL wrote: Of course he goes to LoL. Its: 1.) Easier 2.) More viewers 3.) More Money 4.) Cheaper 5.) More rewarding 6.) Less exhausting 7.) MORE MONEY AGAIN
How can an online game be easier than another online game?
You are claiming that all online games have the same difficulty?
On September 18 2013 09:59 jbeL wrote: Of course he goes to LoL. Its: 1.) Easier 2.) More viewers 3.) More Money 4.) Cheaper 5.) More rewarding 6.) Less exhausting 7.) MORE MONEY AGAIN
How can an online game be easier than another online game?
You are claiming that all online games have the same difficulty?
PvP games yes, since the enemy is another player, and not the game.
On September 18 2013 09:59 jbeL wrote: Of course he goes to LoL. Its: 1.) Easier 2.) More viewers 3.) More Money 4.) Cheaper 5.) More rewarding 6.) Less exhausting 7.) MORE MONEY AGAIN
How can an online game be easier than another online game?
You are claiming that all online games have the same difficulty?
Games may have lower skill floor, but there's no way to know if it has lower skill ceiling, since no one ever reachs it.
On September 18 2013 22:39 edlover420 wrote: I think a quality free to play RTS game could be extremely successful, if it was enjoyable to play casually versus friends and if it would be player friendly.
In my opinion the main problem with starcraft 2 is the price and a simple fact that most people just don't really find it fun to play at all...
I hate to break it to you, most people don't enjoy RTS games as a multiplayer game. Most people never touch the competitive aspect of any RTS game because they know how hard it will be. All my friends who know I play SC2 competitively say the same thing "But I will have to deal with people cheesing me, right?" and I have to answer yes. Most folks do not enjoy the super stressful aspect of SC2 or any RTS game. But it that stress and variety of gameplay that defines them.
I played BW endlessly even while games like Dota and CS existed, it's not RTS genre it's the fact that Sc2 just isn't as fun as BW was, this is a simple problem that people try to ignore and it sucks I know but it's true for a lot of people. If BW got a graphical update and similiar "Dota" treatment ala valve (cool community building stuff like tournament tickets etc) you can bet it would demolish Sc2 and be a serious contender on the competitive market.
Regardless sad to see beasty go, always enjoyed watching his games back in WOL but can't say his decision to switch to LoL is a bad one.
I am just talking raw stats and units bought to number of people who play multiplayer. RTS games have always had a very low number of people who get super deep into competitive multiplayer. Every company that makes them has stated this. It is more due to the nature of RTS games themselves, rather than SC2.
RTS wasn't in decline. BW and Dota 1 co-existed just fine for many years.
Coexist is an exaggerate word. BW was never big outside of Korea. Before SC2, this Teamliquid.net forum had only like couple hundred posters at most. BW was more like a hobby than a career/game to die for. A lot of people did what we are doing right now, aka not playing the game or play very casual (1 game/week) but just sit around and talk about the game. Every scene, even fighting, or AoE scene were bigger than BW preSC2.
Lots of missinformation. 1. TL was far more bigger than 200 posters. 2. BW was being played nonstop in PC bangs and home lans (AND not only in Korea). Just because internet sucked back then doesnt mean people didn't play bw. 3. Other games couldn't take over Korea, coz bw provided enough fun for casuals and epic shows for viewers. Which sc2 didnt manage to do, therefore losing players/viewers to other games.
He is 100% correct that BW was never big outside of KR. I don't know how it compared to other RTS games of the time, but the game was never huge. SC2 is has had the largest impact world wide(aka, not limited to Korea) of any RTS game out there when it comes to competitive Esports.
BW was the #1 RTS game in Canada since it was released. Every Korean PC Bang in Toronto featured the game prominently. #1 in PC Bangs in general, #1 on console, #1 on LANs, WGTour was "the place" compete.
Canada is outside Korea. of course, you can still say something about the definition of "big". 14 years after its release i can still buy the Starcraft Battle Chest at any EB Games. Every other PC game on the shelf has been released within the past year.
BW is a timeless classic. But, this is way off topic.
On September 18 2013 22:39 edlover420 wrote: I think a quality free to play RTS game could be extremely successful, if it was enjoyable to play casually versus friends and if it would be player friendly.
In my opinion the main problem with starcraft 2 is the price and a simple fact that most people just don't really find it fun to play at all...
I hate to break it to you, most people don't enjoy RTS games as a multiplayer game. Most people never touch the competitive aspect of any RTS game because they know how hard it will be. All my friends who know I play SC2 competitively say the same thing "But I will have to deal with people cheesing me, right?" and I have to answer yes. Most folks do not enjoy the super stressful aspect of SC2 or any RTS game. But it that stress and variety of gameplay that defines them.
I played BW endlessly even while games like Dota and CS existed, it's not RTS genre it's the fact that Sc2 just isn't as fun as BW was, this is a simple problem that people try to ignore and it sucks I know but it's true for a lot of people. If BW got a graphical update and similiar "Dota" treatment ala valve (cool community building stuff like tournament tickets etc) you can bet it would demolish Sc2 and be a serious contender on the competitive market.
Regardless sad to see beasty go, always enjoyed watching his games back in WOL but can't say his decision to switch to LoL is a bad one.
I am just talking raw stats and units bought to number of people who play multiplayer. RTS games have always had a very low number of people who get super deep into competitive multiplayer. Every company that makes them has stated this. It is more due to the nature of RTS games themselves, rather than SC2.
RTS wasn't in decline. BW and Dota 1 co-existed just fine for many years.
Coexist is an exaggerate word. BW was never big outside of Korea. Before SC2, this Teamliquid.net forum had only like couple hundred posters at most. BW was more like a hobby than a career/game to die for. A lot of people did what we are doing right now, aka not playing the game or play very casual (1 game/week) but just sit around and talk about the game. Every scene, even fighting, or AoE scene were bigger than BW preSC2.
Lots of missinformation. 1. TL was far more bigger than 200 posters. 2. BW was being played nonstop in PC bangs and home lans (AND not only in Korea). Just because internet sucked back then doesnt mean people didn't play bw. 3. Other games couldn't take over Korea, coz bw provided enough fun for casuals and epic shows for viewers. Which sc2 didnt manage to do, therefore losing players/viewers to other games.
He is 100% correct that BW was never big outside of KR. I don't know how it compared to other RTS games of the time, but the game was never huge. SC2 is has had the largest impact world wide(aka, not limited to Korea) of any RTS game out there when it comes to competitive Esports.
BW was the #1 RTS game in Canada since it was released. Every Korean PC Bang in Toronto featured the game prominently. #1 in PC Bangs in general, #1 on console, #1 on LANs, WGTour was "the place" compete.
Canada is outside Korea. of course, you can still say something about the definition of "big". 14 years after its release i can still buy the Starcraft Battle Chest at any EB Games. Every other PC game on the shelf has been released within the past year.
They were talking competitive Esports. Yeah, BW is still one of the best selling RTS games, and yes, you can still buy a Battle.net chest, but that says nothing about the professional competition scene or even the number of people that touched Ladder play (regular or ICCUP).
And yeah, of course a Korean PC Bang in Canada would feature BW heavily...if it's specifically a Korean-targeted business, of course it will follow Korean culture. Quake and CS (not to mention Console games like Golden Eye, Smash Brothers, etc.) were a lot bigger in North American culture.
EPT
