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On September 04 2013 04:50 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 04:48 geokilla wrote:
Isn't Blizzard part of Activision? They only care about the profits.. That is every business in the world, not just Activision. It doesn't mean they can't do both.
yea but it seems Activision care more about profit than others becuase look at what happened to Call of Duty, they just churn the same shit out year after year just to get more money because people were still buying the latest Call of Duty regardless of how shit the game was. They only recently purchased Blizzard right?
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Profits may have played a part in why SC2 has "2" expansions, instead of only 1 expansion like SC1, WC3
more expansions, more money
harder to balance though
investors will see more money from more expansions, thats the important thing right?
guess we have to wait until the final expansion pack, before we get a balanced, variable game like BW?
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This is why we love MC! <3
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If you try to make it like 2010 or like anything it never will be. If you wish to breathe life into something that seems otherwise dead rejuvenate it with passion and a love for the games. The biggest problem I have seen with Starcraft 2 recently is how much entertainment is pushed on you. Think back to the older MLG's or Dreamhacks..they were all just about the game. The love for it and excitement of what was happening on screen. Now we have the EG house just spamming every ad they can find sporting their sponsors(of which should get recognition but not in the way they do it) while taking away from what the game is. Sc2 is an incredible RTS that challenges you at such a level that you literally can never be perfect. It is a game where you can watch 100 games on the same map and none of them will be the same(IE enemy movements, timings, etc.). Once you take the spotlight from the actual gameplay and keep talking about entertainment and "try" to be something is where you fail. Do you think Riot is trying to be the #1 esports game in a snobby/actively way or just displaying this game they love(albeit very well structured) and put all the emphasis on the actual game. In order for Sc2 (IMO) to get back to that kind of level we need to just remember why we love it and show it to people like that. Take all the redtape and bullshit out.
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On September 04 2013 06:05 coopa523 wrote:
If you try to make it like 2010 or like anything it never will be. If you wish to breathe life into something that seems otherwise dead rejuvenate it with passion and a love for the games. The biggest problem I have seen with Starcraft 2 recently is how much entertainment is pushed on you. Think back to the older MLG's or Dreamhacks..they were all just about the game. The love for it and excitement of what was happening on screen. Now we have the EG house just spamming every ad they can find sporting their sponsors(of which should get recognition but not in the way they do it) while taking away from what the game is. Sc2 is an incredible RTS that challenges you at such a level that you literally can never be perfect. It is a game where you can watch 100 games on the same map and none of them will be the same(IE enemy movements, timings, etc.). Once you take the spotlight from the actual gameplay and keep talking about entertainment and "try" to be something is where you fail. Do you think Riot is trying to be the #1 esports game in a snobby/actively way or just displaying this game they love(albeit very well structured) and put all the emphasis on the actual game. In order for Sc2 (IMO) to get back to that kind of level we need to just remember why we love it and show it to people like that. Take all the redtape and bullshit out.
I hate to break it to ya but I can tell you how the next 100 pro tvzs will exactly look like.
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good ty! MC too thinks terran is BROKEN.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On September 04 2013 06:46 XXXSmOke wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 06:05 coopa523 wrote:
If you try to make it like 2010 or like anything it never will be. If you wish to breathe life into something that seems otherwise dead rejuvenate it with passion and a love for the games. The biggest problem I have seen with Starcraft 2 recently is how much entertainment is pushed on you. Think back to the older MLG's or Dreamhacks..they were all just about the game. The love for it and excitement of what was happening on screen. Now we have the EG house just spamming every ad they can find sporting their sponsors(of which should get recognition but not in the way they do it) while taking away from what the game is. Sc2 is an incredible RTS that challenges you at such a level that you literally can never be perfect. It is a game where you can watch 100 games on the same map and none of them will be the same(IE enemy movements, timings, etc.). Once you take the spotlight from the actual gameplay and keep talking about entertainment and "try" to be something is where you fail. Do you think Riot is trying to be the #1 esports game in a snobby/actively way or just displaying this game they love(albeit very well structured) and put all the emphasis on the actual game. In order for Sc2 (IMO) to get back to that kind of level we need to just remember why we love it and show it to people like that. Take all the redtape and bullshit out. I hate to break it to ya but I can tell you how the next 100 pro tvzs will exactly look like.
MMMM against slings+bane+mutas into either death or ultras into terran's death? lol. I think coopa523 makes a valid point. Do it for the game, not the profit and they(profit) will come!
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Thanks Terry, I think MC is spot on with evererything. SC2 needs to change to stay relevant with dota2 and LoLs popularity on the rise and I think blizzard should call MC and consult with him.
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On September 04 2013 06:55 crazyweasel wrote:
good ty! MC too thinks terran is BROKEN.
You didnt read the comparisons to BW, did you? There is something missing in SC2 which BW had and "Terran OP"/"Widow Mine broken" is just the symptom and not the disease.
On September 04 2013 05:04 Hadronsbecrazy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 04:50 Plansix wrote:On September 04 2013 04:48 geokilla wrote:
Isn't Blizzard part of Activision? They only care about the profits.. That is every business in the world, not just Activision. It doesn't mean they can't do both. yea but it seems Activision care more about profit than others becuase look at what happened to Call of Duty, they just churn the same shit out year after year just to get more money because people were still buying the latest Call of Duty regardless of how shit the game was. They only recently purchased Blizzard right?
The greed of the managers only influenced the monetization aspects of the "iron grip on the scene" which has resulted in "no LAN", the tightly run tournament organization monopoly of Blizzard and the failed Facebook integration. Those things dont affect the games whatsoever.
The crappy design of the core mechanics - which in turn make the game pretty much impossible to balance well [i.e. make every unit viable OR preventing "critical numbers" from screwing up balance OR make half-a-second actions decide a whole game OR ...] due to the kill speed - is the fault of Dustin Browder and his team.
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On September 04 2013 07:12 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 06:46 XXXSmOke wrote:On September 04 2013 06:05 coopa523 wrote:
If you try to make it like 2010 or like anything it never will be. If you wish to breathe life into something that seems otherwise dead rejuvenate it with passion and a love for the games. The biggest problem I have seen with Starcraft 2 recently is how much entertainment is pushed on you. Think back to the older MLG's or Dreamhacks..they were all just about the game. The love for it and excitement of what was happening on screen. Now we have the EG house just spamming every ad they can find sporting their sponsors(of which should get recognition but not in the way they do it) while taking away from what the game is. Sc2 is an incredible RTS that challenges you at such a level that you literally can never be perfect. It is a game where you can watch 100 games on the same map and none of them will be the same(IE enemy movements, timings, etc.). Once you take the spotlight from the actual gameplay and keep talking about entertainment and "try" to be something is where you fail. Do you think Riot is trying to be the #1 esports game in a snobby/actively way or just displaying this game they love(albeit very well structured) and put all the emphasis on the actual game. In order for Sc2 (IMO) to get back to that kind of level we need to just remember why we love it and show it to people like that. Take all the redtape and bullshit out. I hate to break it to ya but I can tell you how the next 100 pro tvzs will exactly look like. MMMM against slings+bane+mutas into either death or ultras into terran's death? lol. I think coopa523 makes a valid point. Do it for the game, not the profit and they(profit) will come!
Terran's Death? LOL
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On September 04 2013 13:58 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 06:55 crazyweasel wrote:
good ty! MC too thinks terran is BROKEN. You didnt read the comparisons to BW, did you? There is something missing in SC2 which BW had and "Terran OP"/"Widow Mine broken" is just the symptom and not the disease. Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 05:04 Hadronsbecrazy wrote:On September 04 2013 04:50 Plansix wrote:On September 04 2013 04:48 geokilla wrote:
Isn't Blizzard part of Activision? They only care about the profits.. That is every business in the world, not just Activision. It doesn't mean they can't do both. yea but it seems Activision care more about profit than others becuase look at what happened to Call of Duty, they just churn the same shit out year after year just to get more money because people were still buying the latest Call of Duty regardless of how shit the game was. They only recently purchased Blizzard right? The greed of the managers only influenced the monetization aspects of the "iron grip on the scene" which has resulted in "no LAN", the tightly run tournament organization monopoly of Blizzard and the failed Facebook integration. Th ose things dont affect the games whatsoever. The crappy design of the core mechanics - which in turn make the game pretty much impossible to balance well [i.e. make every unit viable OR preventing "critical numbers" from screwing up balance OR make half-a-second actions decide a whole game OR ...] due to the kill speed - is the fault of Dustin Browder and his team.
I think the bolder part is 100% wrong. So long as developers have the mentality of " there are more expansions to come" what are they more likely to do? Fix shit when shit is identified? Or use the excuse of "change is coming" and leave "needed" changes to be used as a hook to buy the expansion.
Mark my words, nothing will come from the mouths of the devs about misaligned core design choices until they have used up their last lifeline in lotv. Once that comes out there will be a feeling of dread for them "what the fuck do we do now"
Im in agreement with ur last sentence. Remember this is the team that promoted roachVmaruderVstalker on steppes of war/incineration Zone as a competetive rts
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On September 04 2013 00:44 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 00:12 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On September 03 2013 23:13 goody153 wrote:On September 03 2013 23:08 Plansix wrote:On September 03 2013 23:06 Yamato wrote:On September 03 2013 22:36 TheDwf wrote:
The tier discussion is rather idiotic anyway; people call 3/3 Marines "tier1" while you can't have 3/3 before 17', i. e. long after a Battlecruiser theoretically obtainable as early as 7'30. To me it makes no sense to call a 3/3 Zergling with Adrenal Glands or a 3-3-3 Zealot with Charge "tier1" considering the amount of tech/time invested in them, even if they still come from the elementary military building. You can get a BC by 7:30? Time to try out proxy BC's. Your name makes this post extra amusing. lol totally .. tell us if BC's shitty dps worked when you proxied it You've clearly never seen my famous BC's run fly by. I really dislike Blizzard's approach to BCs in SCII. While the animation might be more interesting to watch(debatable), the fact that they do 6 damage a shot means +3 armor units cuts damage in half. That's crazy! If it was only one full damage then you lose at best -3 or -4 so they'll still be beastly late game even when they are not upgraded. Finally got around to reading this. Some good stuff in there. MC makes pretty valid points. Blizzard should find away to make mech viable as well then MMMM is not terrans best option to play the game.
honestly, blizzard are pretty clueless on how to make mech work. Their refusal to buff tank damage is their problem honestly and now they added the widowmine that completely over shadows the tanks (obviously a tank buff now might be too extreme without tuning down mines). Tanks still have usage in TvT but I been saying for a long time now that if blizzard can make mech work, it would make SC2 sooooooo much more interesting. If they make it work, it will also force zerg and protoss to do different unit composition and create an entirely different game. This expansion was a big disappointment for me because they failed to accomplish the only goal I was looking forward to when they announced they wanted to make mech viable as their goal for this expansion.
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On September 04 2013 15:41 SheaR619 wrote:
honestly, blizzard are pretty clueless on how to make mech work.
Blizzard may know how to make mech work - DK understands that the high number of counters are the issue not tank damage.
But why would they bother to fix it?
They think that play-style is boring and they are partially right with all turtling mech currently involves.
Add to that a number of necessary change which may unbalance the game and a host of players that would cry bloody murder and fight for nerfs instead of adapting.
Unless you can get a huge amount of players whining about terran variety mech is not worth the work required.
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On September 04 2013 14:49 IAmHaunteR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 07:12 BigFan wrote:On September 04 2013 06:46 XXXSmOke wrote:On September 04 2013 06:05 coopa523 wrote:
If you try to make it like 2010 or like anything it never will be. If you wish to breathe life into something that seems otherwise dead rejuvenate it with passion and a love for the games. The biggest problem I have seen with Starcraft 2 recently is how much entertainment is pushed on you. Think back to the older MLG's or Dreamhacks..they were all just about the game. The love for it and excitement of what was happening on screen. Now we have the EG house just spamming every ad they can find sporting their sponsors(of which should get recognition but not in the way they do it) while taking away from what the game is. Sc2 is an incredible RTS that challenges you at such a level that you literally can never be perfect. It is a game where you can watch 100 games on the same map and none of them will be the same(IE enemy movements, timings, etc.). Once you take the spotlight from the actual gameplay and keep talking about entertainment and "try" to be something is where you fail. Do you think Riot is trying to be the #1 esports game in a snobby/actively way or just displaying this game they love(albeit very well structured) and put all the emphasis on the actual game. In order for Sc2 (IMO) to get back to that kind of level we need to just remember why we love it and show it to people like that. Take all the redtape and bullshit out. I hate to break it to ya but I can tell you how the next 100 pro tvzs will exactly look like. MMMM against slings+bane+mutas into either death or ultras into terran's death? lol. I think coopa523 makes a valid point. Do it for the game, not the profit and they(profit) will come! Terran's Death? LOL
Failing to kill the zergs 4th and let him have ultras is suicide, cause 3/3 and a handful infestors are around the corner. Bios strength comes from the incredible high dmg density marines provide. Marus just suck (not against roaches and ultras though).
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TLADT24920 Posts
On September 04 2013 14:49 IAmHaunteR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 07:12 BigFan wrote:On September 04 2013 06:46 XXXSmOke wrote:On September 04 2013 06:05 coopa523 wrote:
If you try to make it like 2010 or like anything it never will be. If you wish to breathe life into something that seems otherwise dead rejuvenate it with passion and a love for the games. The biggest problem I have seen with Starcraft 2 recently is how much entertainment is pushed on you. Think back to the older MLG's or Dreamhacks..they were all just about the game. The love for it and excitement of what was happening on screen. Now we have the EG house just spamming every ad they can find sporting their sponsors(of which should get recognition but not in the way they do it) while taking away from what the game is. Sc2 is an incredible RTS that challenges you at such a level that you literally can never be perfect. It is a game where you can watch 100 games on the same map and none of them will be the same(IE enemy movements, timings, etc.). Once you take the spotlight from the actual gameplay and keep talking about entertainment and "try" to be something is where you fail. Do you think Riot is trying to be the #1 esports game in a snobby/actively way or just displaying this game they love(albeit very well structured) and put all the emphasis on the actual game. In order for Sc2 (IMO) to get back to that kind of level we need to just remember why we love it and show it to people like that. Take all the redtape and bullshit out. I hate to break it to ya but I can tell you how the next 100 pro tvzs will exactly look like. MMMM against slings+bane+mutas into either death or ultras into terran's death? lol. I think coopa523 makes a valid point. Do it for the game, not the profit and they(profit) will come! Terran's Death? LOL
If you are heavy on marines then ultras will eat the widow mine shots and rip them to pieces. In games where the zerg managed to get to hive for their 3/3 and get ultras, I believe that the chance of them winning the game increase several folds and 'might' go in their favour.
On September 04 2013 15:41 SheaR619 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 00:44 BigFan wrote:On September 04 2013 00:12 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On September 03 2013 23:13 goody153 wrote:On September 03 2013 23:08 Plansix wrote:On September 03 2013 23:06 Yamato wrote:On September 03 2013 22:36 TheDwf wrote:
The tier discussion is rather idiotic anyway; people call 3/3 Marines "tier1" while you can't have 3/3 before 17', i. e. long after a Battlecruiser theoretically obtainable as early as 7'30. To me it makes no sense to call a 3/3 Zergling with Adrenal Glands or a 3-3-3 Zealot with Charge "tier1" considering the amount of tech/time invested in them, even if they still come from the elementary military building. You can get a BC by 7:30? Time to try out proxy BC's. Your name makes this post extra amusing. lol totally .. tell us if BC's shitty dps worked when you proxied it You've clearly never seen my famous BC's run fly by. I really dislike Blizzard's approach to BCs in SCII. While the animation might be more interesting to watch(debatable), the fact that they do 6 damage a shot means +3 armor units cuts damage in half. That's crazy! If it was only one full damage then you lose at best -3 or -4 so they'll still be beastly late game even when they are not upgraded. Finally got around to reading this. Some good stuff in there. MC makes pretty valid points. Blizzard should find away to make mech viable as well then MMMM is not terrans best option to play the game. honestly, blizzard are pretty clueless on how to make mech work. Their refusal to buff tank damage is their problem honestly and now they added the widowmine that completely over shadows the tanks (obviously a tank buff now might be too extreme without tuning down mines). Tanks still have usage in TvT but I been saying for a long time now that if blizzard can make mech work, it would make SC2 sooooooo much more interesting. If they make it work, it will also force zerg and protoss to do different unit composition and create an entirely different game. This expansion was a big disappointment for me because they failed to accomplish the only goal I was looking forward to when they announced they wanted to make mech viable as their goal for this expansion.
Their refusal to make changes to make mech viable and change a couple of design choices is going to lead SCII down a darker road than it's currently on. I agree, if mech was viable then both bio, biomine and mech can be a possibility. It'll take some tweaking but it's easily doable. I'm surprised that they didn't make mech viable even though they mentioned it's a priority. If anything, abduct negates mech even further XD
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I have given up on it mostly because of the reasons MC mentioned. One small other part is probably the incompetence of the current Blizzard team working at the game. Whenever I see Kim's face, when he is telling us some new bullshit story and what they want to do in the future, I get angry. And I fail to see a reason to support a gaming structure, where a player's value is determined by how many twitch viewers he can attract.
All of this is not something I want to invest my time in, which is kind of sad, because I enjoyed it quite a lot for a long time.
I just stopped caring at some point and moved on.
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Mech won't be so turtley if there was incentives to get more bases and capture high ground or some sort of terrain feature that benefits the defender (so that a few defensive units can fend off enemies 2 to 3 times larger in terms of numbers).
SC2 doesn't do any of the above sadly.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina261 Posts
On September 04 2013 17:59 YyapSsap wrote:
Mech won't be so turtley if there was incentives to get more bases and capture high ground or some sort of terrain feature that benefits the defender (so that a few defensive units can fend off enemies 2 to 3 times larger in terms of numbers).
SC2 doesn't do any of the above sadly.
How would that NOT promote turtling?
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Northern Ireland27202 Posts
Really cool, MC plays the clown so often it's nice to see his serious side
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EPT
