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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
On August 27 2013 21:55 Markwerf wrote: Looks good for Acer but might as well be his downfall not having the top training partners anymore.. You know that Acer has two training houses right? Axiom and Acer house. One in Korean and one in Germany, why wouldn't he have top training partners? | ||
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NuKE[vZ]
United States249 Posts
On August 27 2013 20:16 zebezt wrote: I don't think Acer will be in proleague after they pissed off Kespa like this. If they wanted to be in proleague, they would have gone the way EG did with JD. I'm sure KeSPA would love to keep Innovation... so if anything Acer might have an even easier way of getting into proleague. | ||
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NuKE[vZ]
United States249 Posts
On August 27 2013 18:04 Fody03 wrote: The most depressing thing is that there is a 44k employees company sinking... Good luck Innovation on the new team Shutting down an eSports division doesn't necessarily mean the company is sinking. They just don't have the funding they need to be able to sponsor an eSports team. | ||
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Cokefreak
Finland8095 Posts
On August 27 2013 23:27 NuKE[vZ] wrote: Shutting down an eSports division doesn't necessarily mean the company is sinking. They just don't have the funding they need to be able to sponsor an eSports team. Well the thing is, the company is sinking (I see what you did there). | ||
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NuKE[vZ]
United States249 Posts
On August 27 2013 09:19 Phil0s0pher wrote: I'm really interested in this question!! Imagine Axiom-Acer with Ryung, Innovation, MMA, Crank, Alicia, Scarlett, Heart ...that is a scary scary line up. +Nerchio and Bly and maybe add another toss, possibly from the sinking STX ship(Trap or Dear)... jee | ||
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vijeze
Netherlands719 Posts
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Nomzter
Sweden2802 Posts
 gg | ||
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bypLy
757 Posts
On August 27 2013 23:51 Nomzter wrote: My least favorite top player in the world joins my least favorite foreign team ggthats what i thought | ||
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sVnteen
Germany2238 Posts
On August 27 2013 23:51 Nomzter wrote: My least favorite top player in the world joins my least favorite foreign team ggshouldn't you be happy he didn't join your favourite team then? ^^ | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On August 27 2013 16:37 Fionn wrote: While it would be easy to say, 'Innovation doesn't need to worry about an easier region! He will crush in 2014 just like he did this year!', you have to think about all the upcoming balance shift, breakout players like Sora, and how things will change when the 2014 season of WCS starts. Go to Europe. Have fun in WCS Europe with MMA, Mvp and the rest of the guys. Go to every foreign tournament possible and farm those precious WCS points. Cruise into Blizzcon '14 with a chance at $100,000 or more. Indeed, now to find that other post I forgot to respond to. On August 27 2013 16:52 Fionn wrote: The whole point of non-region locking was so elite Koreans could go to the other two regions, stay there, and level up the foreigners in said region by practicing on that ladder, joining teams in that region, and living there. That fell apart when they let people from Korea come down to a specific region for six days a tournament and then fly back to Korea, but if they made it so you had to live in that region throughout the year or be there for every offline portion of the tournament, you might actually see what Blizzard dreamed of come true. If you have Innovation and others on the European ladder, living there and actually integrating with the other GM's in Europe, you could see some changes. Now it's pretty much a joke. Mvp can fly down for two weekends, say he's European, beat up the actual Europeans, and then go back to Korea. Hopefully with the Acer house opening up in Germany, we see Innovation and MMA move full-time to Europe and practice there. I guess I have to respond to this. I'm pretty sure you saw what I said about the qualifiers/prelims. You guys really need to stop beating yourselves up about how Blizzard branded it because all they were meant to be was prelims open to everyone. Region had nothing to do with it based on the outline. | ||
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Lock0n
United Kingdom184 Posts
On August 27 2013 23:18 ShoCkeyy wrote: You know that Acer has two training houses right? Axiom and Acer house. One in Korean and one in Germany, why wouldn't he have top training partners? So this means he will be staying at TB's house in Korea? Would expect his TvT to improve a lot with terrans like MMA and Ryung around. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On August 27 2013 08:27 HolyArrow wrote: Painkilla isn't saying that the KeSPA training system doesn't work. He's saying that the myth that the KeSPA training system is BETTER than all others and thus allows all players under that system to be superior to players not under that system has been disproven. In his words, "there is nothing inherently better about Kespa and their training system". He's not saying that the system is bad, but just that it's not inherently better than all the other systems, and it looks like you're actually agreeing with that by saying that different training systems work for different people. Ah ha. Found the post I forgot to respond to. There will always be the what if factor. As in you never know until you actually try something and a lot of the players we listed off never really tired it. We're not talking about spending a few months in a Korean house like Stephano who likes being his own boss and didn't really take to trOt's guidance. The coaching style wasn't for him & he rather figure things out on his own. There are a lot of Western players who are like this. There are countless examples, but there are a few players out who make realizations once they come aboard and go, "Oh shit. The way I was doing things wasn't as efficient as I could be. Maybe if I switch things up I could potentially be a lot better." It's hard to say if these players who like to float at the seam of their pants and do their own thing wouldn't benefit from another style. There are a lot of players who find success and they just stick to what they know because it's what they're familiar with. They're accustomed to it and some people just don't like change. When change could be a good thing. At the end of the day you have to stay happy/positive. If working the way KeSPA players do doesn't keep you passionate about the game then yes, there is no point going down that path even if it could make you a better player. Plus, the system we currently have in place like Fionn said sort of works against it. | ||
Destructicon
4713 Posts
On August 28 2013 00:06 StarStruck wrote: Indeed, now to find that other post I forgot to respond to. I guess I have to respond to this. I'm pretty sure you saw what I said about the qualifiers/prelims. You guys really need to stop beating yourselves up about how Blizzard branded it because all they were meant to be was prelims open to everyone. Region had nothing to do with it based on the outline. You are right about that but, I also felt the need to respond and tell you that, people feel cheated regarding this new version of WCS because Blizzard pulled a full 180 regarding the format in comparison to last year. Last year's WCS was a sort of a grassroots series of tournaments feeding into regional, continental and finally the global final. This year's is a series of GSL format tournaments open to everyone that feeds into a seasonal final and lastly a grand final. Personally I have no problem with Blizzards system, my problem with them, and many others is that they aren't doing anything to also promote and grow local talent. The WCS system doesn't help in that regard, as has been pointed out Koreans can just come for the last two weeks that are required to be in EU or NA, compete in the offline part, win and then go back to Korea. Again this wouldn't be so bad if there was also another tournament, maybe not the same scale or prize pool as WCS, but something consistent to grow the local scene, well so far there is none of that, and there can't be because of one simple reason, you can't broadcast during WCS prime times. Now, did we need the WCS in its current form? In a way yes, we need to be able to see the highest level of play consistently especially for those that can't afford a GSL pass or can't sync their schedule with it. Does it hurt the scene in its current inception? Yes, Korean is hurt because their prize pool for the GSL shrank and it has encouraged some of their greatest players to play abroad thus somewhat worsening the Korean scene, and it has also hurt the EU and NA scenes because the Koreans abroad are still vastly stronger then foreigners and more then guaranteed to win. In a way it also has made the GSL feel somewhat less special, because you now get to see Koreans competing in a GSL esque format everywhere at any time. Could we live with the WCS? Yes but with some adjustments, what must really change is the scheduling, there need to be some off seasons when other smaller local tournaments can take place. We need the highest level of play but we equally so need to grow the local scenes and talent, otherwise in the long run SC2 is shooting itself in the foot. If the WCS system allowed room for smaller scale local tournaments I'd have no problem with its system. I also with they would allow GOM to host a proper GSL with the good old 50k prize pool for first place, that way it would encourage the best Koreans to stay mostly in Korea. On topic. Regarding Innovation, I personally hope he never leaves Korea and continues to train exclusively there, because I strongly fear his level of skill will decline outside of Korea without access to its ladder and he will become a shadow of his former self, without actually contributing too much to the local scene in EU. The problem with Koreans moving here and training here in EU and/or NA is that there need to be a large enough number of top caliber Koreans that have too move for there to be an impact, if 3-4 move they will decrease in level, they won't quite reach the level of the local scene but they will be far from the peaks they could achieve in Korea. Now if 30-40 Koreans move to both EU and NA then that would be a proper number to keep their own skill set sharp and to raise the local level for the GMs. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On August 28 2013 00:30 Destructicon wrote: You are right about that but, I also felt the need to respond and tell you that, people feel cheated regarding this new version of WCS because Blizzard pulled a full 180 regarding the format in comparison to last year. Last year's WCS was a sort of a grassroots series of tournaments feeding into regional, continental and finally the global final. This year's is a series of GSL format tournaments open to everyone that feeds into a seasonal final and lastly a grand final. Personally I have no problem with Blizzards system, my problem with them, and many others is that they aren't doing anything to also promote and grow local talent. The WCS system doesn't help in that regard, as has been pointed out Koreans can just come for the last two weeks that are required to be in EU or NA, compete in the offline part, win and then go back to Korea. Again this wouldn't be so bad if there was also another tournament, maybe not the same scale or prize pool as WCS, but something consistent to grow the local scene, well so far there is none of that, and there can't be because of one simple reason, you can't broadcast during WCS prime times. Now, did we need the WCS in its current form? In a way yes, we need to be able to see the highest level of play consistently especially for those that can't afford a GSL pass or can't sync their schedule with it. Does it hurt the scene in its current inception? Yes, Korean is hurt because their prize pool for the GSL shrank and it has encouraged some of their greatest players to play abroad thus somewhat worsening the Korean scene, and it has also hurt the EU and NA scenes because the Koreans abroad are still vastly stronger then foreigners and more then guaranteed to win. In a way it also has made the GSL feel somewhat less special, because you now get to see Koreans competing in a GSL esque format everywhere at any time. Could we live with the WCS? Yes but with some adjustments, what must really change is the scheduling, there need to be some off seasons when other smaller local tournaments can take place. We need the highest level of play but we equally so need to grow the local scenes and talent, otherwise in the long run SC2 is shooting itself in the foot. If the WCS system allowed room for smaller scale local tournaments I'd have no problem with its system. I also with they would allow GOM to host a proper GSL with the good old 50k prize pool for first place, that way it would encourage the best Koreans to stay mostly in Korea. Blizzard is tinkering to find the best format to benefit all the players. At the end of the day they want to have flexibility so it doesn't matter where you come from, what team your associated with, etc. To promote global talent you really have to put the money down and buy into a system like the one I keep proposing. The biggest problem with my system is getting players out to every major LAN. We have more than enough organizers to promote a World Tour Circuit. Once again the problem comes down to the expenses for the players... the organizers would be keen on their expenses already because the big guns already host approximately four major stops a year, so that's not really the issue. The other really big issue is the the fact you would have to work around PL, OSL, GSL, etc. (there would be a LAN pretty much every several weeks, so you have to find a way to fit it in the schedule). It's pretty complicated and you would have to get everyone together to plan out the annual schedule so everyone's on the same page and there is no overlap. | ||
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Destructicon
4713 Posts
I was just stating the reason why people are really disappointed with this year's WCS and why I am also saddened regarding its format. | ||
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Sejanus
Lithuania550 Posts
On August 27 2013 11:47 tili wrote:  SCII community is leagues above any other I've experienced (Quake III being a close second).Every gamer community is pretty similar and almost every one is claiming to be the best, end of story. | ||
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metroid composite
Canada231 Posts
On August 27 2013 21:55 Markwerf wrote: Looks good for Acer but might as well be his downfall not having the top training partners anymore.. Well...let's see what Aligulac has to say about these training partners... 2. KR P Trap 1571 1541 1470 1703 3. KR P Dear 1548 1517 1526 1599 4. KR P Classic 1483 1413 1537 1501 5. KR Z hyvaa 1399 1451 1422 1325 6. KR P Mini 1304 1300 1379 1233 7. KR Z YoungJoo 1100 1055 1228 1019 ok, now let's look at axiom-acer... 1. KR T MMA 1773 1729 1745 1844 2. CA Z Scarlett 1689 1730 1715 1622 1. KR P Alicia 1630 1617 1743 1530 2. KR T Ryung 1615 1490 1736 1617 3. KR T Heart 1444 1452 1413 1466 4. KR P CranK 1420 1460 1345 1455 Hmmmm Maybe we should be speculating what Innovation will do with stronger practice partners (at least when it comes to Terran and Zerg--STX toss are probably better than Axiom toss). | ||
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Levistus
1134 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On August 28 2013 00:58 metroid composite wrote: I do hope Innovation stays in WCS Korea. That way, in the same weekend we can have Scarlett winning WCS AM, MMA winning WCS EU, and Inno winning WCS Korea. Well...let's see what Aligulac has to say about these training partners... 2. KR P Trap 1571 1541 1470 1703 3. KR P Dear 1548 1517 1526 1599 4. KR P Classic 1483 1413 1537 1501 5. KR Z hyvaa 1399 1451 1422 1325 6. KR P Mini 1304 1300 1379 1233 7. KR Z YoungJoo 1100 1055 1228 1019 ok, now let's look at axiom-acer... 1. KR T MMA 1773 1729 1745 1844 2. CA Z Scarlett 1689 1730 1715 1622 1. KR P Alicia 1630 1617 1743 1530 2. KR T Ryung 1615 1490 1736 1617 3. KR T Heart 1444 1452 1413 1466 4. KR P CranK 1420 1460 1345 1455 Hmmmm Maybe we should be speculating what Innovation will do with stronger practice partners (at least when it comes to Terran and Zerg--STX toss are probably better than Axiom toss). It's annoying to see people quote Aligulac non-stop while the ratings for many players are obviously not where they should be. Aligulac ranks LucifroN higher than for instance jjakji or KeeN, do you seriously think it reflects any kind of reality? | ||
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metroid composite
Canada231 Posts
On August 28 2013 01:04 TheDwf wrote: It's annoying to see people quote Aligulac non-stop while the ratings for many players are obviously not where they should be. Aligulac ranks LucifroN higher than for instance jjakji or KeeN, do you seriously think it reflects any kind of reality? Aligulac tends to overrate foreigners who only play in foreign tournaments. Which is...not the case for any of the Axiom-Acer players quoted (all of whom play in the GSTL). You'll note that I intentionally didn't quote Nerchio's Aligulac score, for instance. (Which, yeah, is probably a little inflated due to playing in mostly local EU tournaments. Also, he's not in the Korean teamhouse anyway). | ||
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