This translated interview is a shortened version from the DES's interview about Flash and Madlife (CJ's LoL player).
As always, it is important to note about the things that lost during the two translation processes.
Q: Do you know that people call you God?
Flash: I have good result in BW. I win lots of championships, so I was called "God Young-Ho". But after transition to SC2, I am not there yet. So calling me "Commoner Young-Ho" is more fitting now.
Q: Flash, have you played LoL? There is rumor that your LoL skill is as good as your Starcraft skill.
Flash: The first time I played LoL is when KT formed its LoL team. That was when the LoL players came to KT's team house. So our Starcraft players started to learn LoL and our LoL players started to learn SC2. They have recommended champions like Ryze and Ezreal to me. I think they fit my play style after playing with them. No matter it's LoL or Starcraft, I like to increase the kill count and lead our team to victory. As to the rumor that I am that good at LoL, it's just a rumor.
Q: What's interesting about LoL?
Flash: LoL has 5 positions. This is interesting. We used to have special force team and that game had only 2 positions. The team play and interaction are the the interesting factors about LoL. And the large amount of champions is a good aspect too.
I have also played many FPS games such as Counter-Strike, Rainbow Six, Medal of Honor, etc. As to RTS, I have played Warcraft3.
Q: You are supposed to be in the university with young people with the same age. Do you regret being a progamer?
Flash: Of course I envy the college student. You can have people introducing girlfriend to you if going to college. I envy dating a girlfriend. There are times I want to have a girlfriend. When my friends all go to meet girlfriends, I am very envious. Being a progamer doesn't give you too much time. When there are several tournaments, you don't even have enough time to practice. Even after the end of the tournament, I don't know want to do. There was a week-long vocation since August 5. But I was in the training room for 2 days. I am not a person who knows how to go out and have fun.
Q: You were standing on such a high position in SC1. But you didn't make to the same height in SC2. You must have some different views.
Flash: It's a pity. When I was dominating in SC1, every time I played a game, it was exciting. But now I can't experience that environment. Although I miss SC1, there is no way to go back. Instead of turtling in the past glory, I think working hard to make SC2 more popular is a better thing to do. Accepting the reality and improving on what's lacking.
Q: LoL's LCS has more prize money and is bigger in size. What do you think?
Flash: When transition to SC2, I did find that the size of the tournament should increase. LCS makes advertisement around the world. There will be tens of billions of prize money (in Korean won). So players’ purpose becomes very clear. I think WCS should increase size and prize pool to give players more incentives.
Q: Terran is the strongest race in BW. But Protoss is stronger in SC2. Have you thought about changing race?
Flash: I am still regretting about that even to today. When I first played SC2, I was already thinking that Protoss is really good. Even now I still think that. The management of SC2’s Protoss is exactly the same as BW’s Terran. First, you defend, then you produce your composition, and then move out. The most urgent thing about SC2’s Terran is to ameliorate mech. In BW, going bio or going mech is a choice and will make your opponent guessing and confused. But now SC2 is 100% bio, so you can’t play mind game and you don’t have strategic choice.
Q: Will your ruler get a sponsor?
Flash: There was a time when my fans like to give rulers to me as gift. Before every game, I use a 30CM ruler to measure my mousepad, the height of the Mouse Bungee, the distance between monitor and keyboard, etc. When I saw the rulers from my fans, I realized for the first time that there are so many kinds of rulers. Sometimes I receive 5-6 rulers everyday. And they are all different.
Q: What do "Esports" mean to you?
Flash: It's a very important thing to me. It is like that in the past, in the present, and will be the same in the future. It's a field that makes me famous. I want to contribute my power to develop it. In order to not regret choosing esports and being a progamer, I will work harder.
How can flash think he has the same skill in LoL as he does in sc2? In LoL there 100+ champions to pick from while in sc2 there are 3 races. The amount of strategies that are employed in that game will never be understood by someone that plays a 1v1.
On August 19 2013 13:47 insectoidform wrote: How can flash think he has the same skill in LoL as he does in sc2? In LoL there 100+ champions to pick from while in sc2 there are 3 races. The amount of strategies that are employed in that game will never be understood by someone that plays a 1v1.
You read it wrong. It's the interviewer who says that
On August 19 2013 13:47 insectoidform wrote: How can flash think he has the same skill in LoL as he does in sc2? In LoL there 100+ champions to pick from while in sc2 there are 3 races. The amount of strategies that are employed in that game will never be understood by someone that plays a 1v1.
He doesn't: "As to the rumor that I am that good at LoL, it's just a rumor."
On August 19 2013 13:47 insectoidform wrote: How can flash think he has the same skill in LoL as he does in sc2? In LoL there 100+ champions to pick from while in sc2 there are 3 races. The amount of strategies that are employed in that game will never be understood by someone that plays a 1v1.
You read it wrong. It's the interviewer who says that
He might as well have said it because the interviewer said so. If you tackle someone on a basketball court, the team suffers because a player gets a penalty. If this game is to be taken seriously as an E-sport and be on the level of basketball he will have to take the penalty for the interviewer will he not?
On August 19 2013 13:47 insectoidform wrote: How can flash think he has the same skill in LoL as he does in sc2? In LoL there 100+ champions to pick from while in sc2 there are 3 races. The amount of strategies that are employed in that game will never be understood by someone that plays a 1v1.
You read it wrong. It's the interviewer who says that
He might as well have said it because the interviewer said so. If you tackle someone on a basketball court, the team suffers because a player gets a penalty. If this game is to be taken seriously as an E-sport and be on the level of basketball he will have to take the penalty for the interviewer will he not?
On August 19 2013 13:50 SuperFanBoy wrote: Would be epic to see him in LoL, I can imagine playing top lane and shitting on every1.
Unlike sc2, LoL has measures to prevent defecation on other players. He will be banned immediately for such immature actions. Not like much is more is expected out of an sc2 player however. Not to mention all the legal action that will be taken for that.
I think the reason why Flash said he was excited to play every game in BW is because it was more popular. (not him) (星际1的人气最高的时候每次出场都让人感到开心。现在是感受不到那时候的气氛了) And thank god (/flash) for speaking out for mech style.
Hopefully David Kim can start opening his mind up before saying things like "do we even want mech to be as viable as bio?"
Nice interview. It's always nice to hear interviews from any pros. It really is inspiring in a way for some people who only dream about being progamers.
I love interviews on pro players and especially Korean players. Getting a little insight into the life of Flash and hearing what he thinks about certain topics can really spark conversations. From the way I read the interview I felt like it seemed Flash wasn't enjoying Sc2 nearly as much as BW (which yes I know he would still want to be playing BW) but it seemed almost to the point that he's not enjoying he life as a progamer as much either. Would love to see David Kim answer to his comment about mech though! :D
On August 19 2013 13:47 insectoidform wrote: How can flash think he has the same skill in LoL as he does in sc2? In LoL there 100+ champions to pick from while in sc2 there are 3 races. The amount of strategies that are employed in that game will never be understood by someone that plays a 1v1.
You read it wrong. It's the interviewer who says that
He might as well have said it because the interviewer said so. If you tackle someone on a basketball court, the team suffers because a player gets a penalty. If this game is to be taken seriously as an E-sport and be on the level of basketball he will have to take the penalty for the interviewer will he not?
Never before in my life have I seen such a logical comment.
On August 19 2013 13:38 larse wrote: Flash: When transition to SC2, I did find that the size of the tournament should increase. LCS makes advertisement around the world. There will be tens of billions of prize money (in Korean yen). So players’ purpose becomes very clear. I think WCS should increase size and prize pool to give players more incentives.
Korean Won.
Nice interview, thank you. If I even meet him, I'll have to buy and ruler and get him to sign it!
On August 19 2013 13:47 insectoidform wrote: How can flash think he has the same skill in LoL as he does in sc2? In LoL there 100+ champions to pick from while in sc2 there are 3 races. The amount of strategies that are employed in that game will never be understood by someone that plays a 1v1.
You read it wrong. It's the interviewer who says that
He might as well have said it because the interviewer said so. If you tackle someone on a basketball court, the team suffers because a player gets a penalty. If this game is to be taken seriously as an E-sport and be on the level of basketball he will have to take the penalty for the interviewer will he not?
So if the interviewer said Flash enjoyed stabbing people in his spare time, would we accept that and think "Hmm, there's a chance the interviewer did a mis-translation OR the more likely option: Flash is a serial kill." You've got a good point. It's the only way we can take SC2 to the next level.
i always get the idea than in written interviews especially translated ones things sound a bit different than the guy giving the interview had intended.Also lack of context is really annoying.He could have given an interview similing and trolling but this translation makes it feel like he is cringing.It also could have been one of those "speak my mind" types of intervies wher ehe just states certain facts.Anyways good job with the interview.
How can flash think he has the same skill in LoL as he does in sc2? In LoL there 100+ champions to pick from while in sc2 there are 3 races. The amount of strategies that are employed in that game will never be understood by someone that plays a 1v1.
100 heroes divided by 5 positions=20 heroes for each postion out of which only 4-5 actually see proplay the other ones being "teemo" type aka good on ladder but not good against pros.Now considering each player has a maximum of 3(that if you consider madlife level) that he can actually play at lcs level and actually be effective you end up with less heroes than terran has barracks units.Not to mention the itemization for each role is the same in 95 percent of the cases so yeah sc2 is a bit more complex.When you will see heroes such as warwick,teemo,singed,akali,katarina,fizz in more than 3 matches in lcs nowadays give me a ring.
On August 19 2013 13:38 larse wrote: Flash: When transition to SC2, I did find that the size of the tournament should increase. LCS makes advertisement around the world. There will be tens of billions of prize money (in Korean yen). So players’ purpose becomes very clear. I think WCS should increase size and prize pool to give players more incentives.
On August 19 2013 13:47 insectoidform wrote: How can flash think he has the same skill in LoL as he does in sc2? In LoL there 100+ champions to pick from while in sc2 there are 3 races. The amount of strategies that are employed in that game will never be understood by someone that plays a 1v1.
You read it wrong. It's the interviewer who says that
He might as well have said it because the interviewer said so. If you tackle someone on a basketball court, the team suffers because a player gets a penalty. If this game is to be taken seriously as an E-sport and be on the level of basketball he will have to take the penalty for the interviewer will he not?
Never before in my life have I seen such a logical comment.
On August 19 2013 13:47 insectoidform wrote: How can flash think he has the same skill in LoL as he does in sc2? In LoL there 100+ champions to pick from while in sc2 there are 3 races. The amount of strategies that are employed in that game will never be understood by someone that plays a 1v1.
You read it wrong. It's the interviewer who says that
He might as well have said it because the interviewer said so. If you tackle someone on a basketball court, the team suffers because a player gets a penalty. If this game is to be taken seriously as an E-sport and be on the level of basketball he will have to take the penalty for the interviewer will he not?
So if the interviewer said Flash enjoyed stabbing people in his spare time, would we accept that and think "Hmm, there's a chance the interviewer did a mis-translation OR the more likely option: Flash is a serial kill." You've got a good point. It's the only way we can take SC2 to the next level.
This is the tradeoff for Esports to be taken as seriously as a real sport. Otherwise it is teenagers playing a video game. In the real world, if you say something it is taken seriously, just like on a basketball court. Why should this be any different?
On August 19 2013 14:27 Aquila- wrote: Flash needs to tell Blizzard to make mech viable, maybe then they will finally listen.
wasn't mech the only thing viable until the hellbat nerf?I sort of remember before the nerf the only thing viable were hellbat drops followed by tanks harrass.
On August 19 2013 13:47 insectoidform wrote: How can flash think he has the same skill in LoL as he does in sc2? In LoL there 100+ champions to pick from while in sc2 there are 3 races. The amount of strategies that are employed in that game will never be understood by someone that plays a 1v1.
You read it wrong. It's the interviewer who says that
He might as well have said it because the interviewer said so. If you tackle someone on a basketball court, the team suffers because a player gets a penalty. If this game is to be taken seriously as an E-sport and be on the level of basketball he will have to take the penalty for the interviewer will he not?
So if the interviewer said Flash enjoyed stabbing people in his spare time, would we accept that and think "Hmm, there's a chance the interviewer did a mis-translation OR the more likely option: Flash is a serial kill." You've got a good point. It's the only way we can take SC2 to the next level.
This is the tradeoff for Esports to be taken as seriously as a real sport. Otherwise it is teenagers playing a video game. In the real world, if you say something it is taken seriously, just like on a basketball court. Why should this be any different?
Man, why are you trying to defend something that is so insignificant? Stop making a big deal out of nothing.
On August 19 2013 14:27 Aquila- wrote: Flash needs to tell Blizzard to make mech viable, maybe then they will finally listen.
wasn't mech the only thing viable until the hellbat nerf?I sort of remember before the nerf the only thing viable were hellbat drops followed by tanks harrass.
That was just early game; it hardly ever transitioned into mech beyond that except in TvT.
On August 19 2013 13:47 insectoidform wrote: How can flash think he has the same skill in LoL as he does in sc2? In LoL there 100+ champions to pick from while in sc2 there are 3 races. The amount of strategies that are employed in that game will never be understood by someone that plays a 1v1.
You read it wrong. It's the interviewer who says that
He might as well have said it because the interviewer said so. If you tackle someone on a basketball court, the team suffers because a player gets a penalty. If this game is to be taken seriously as an E-sport and be on the level of basketball he will have to take the penalty for the interviewer will he not?
So if the interviewer said Flash enjoyed stabbing people in his spare time, would we accept that and think "Hmm, there's a chance the interviewer did a mis-translation OR the more likely option: Flash is a serial kill." You've got a good point. It's the only way we can take SC2 to the next level.
This is the tradeoff for Esports to be taken as seriously as a real sport. Otherwise it is teenagers playing a video game. In the real world, if you say something it is taken seriously, just like on a basketball court. Why should this be any different?
Man, why are you trying to defend something that is so insignificant? Stop making a big deal out of nothing.
Super obvious and now banned troll is...well, super obvious and banned. 100% chance that account was made purely for trolling purposes.
On August 19 2013 14:27 Aquila- wrote: Flash needs to tell Blizzard to make mech viable, maybe then they will finally listen.
wasn't mech the only thing viable until the hellbat nerf?I sort of remember before the nerf the only thing viable were hellbat drops followed by tanks harrass.
That was just early game; it hardly ever transitioned into mech beyond that except in TvT.
whenever i watched osl or proleague it was always hellbat drops followed by tanks,hellbat,thor or hellion armies.Until bomber beat innovation or flash after the nerf I did not see any succesfull high level bio in osl or proleague.
I can just feel the frustration that he is feeling. He wants to go back to his game that he loves!! T.T forced to play sc2 for living and has to say only good things about sc2
On August 19 2013 14:41 Shinokuki wrote: I can just feel the frustration that he is feeling. He wants to go back to his game that he loves!! T.T forced to play sc2 for living and has to say only good things about sc2
Haha, troll accounts are standing in line for this one it seems.
Maybe it´s a fake interview, created by the mods to lure them out.
On August 19 2013 14:41 Shinokuki wrote: I can just feel the frustration that he is feeling. He wants to go back to his game that he loves!! T.T forced to play sc2 for living and has to say only good things about sc2
Haha, troll accounts are standing in line for this one it seems.
Maybe it´s a fake interview, created by the mods to lure them out.
I would have to agree I got that feeling in the interview
God has spoken ! He's right I think, concerning mech I say. Terran can't mech anymore, except in TvT, I hope Blizzard takes this into account for LotV and future HotS patches.
Wow even Flash is talking about how LoL is interesting. Also, when he says after during games in BW, he would feel excitement, it makes me think he intends to tell us he is not enjoying Starcraft 2. This interview makes me sad for our scene but also happy that such a player like Flash has graced us by being in it.
On August 19 2013 14:27 Aquila- wrote: Flash needs to tell Blizzard to make mech viable, maybe then they will finally listen.
wasn't mech the only thing viable until the hellbat nerf?I sort of remember before the nerf the only thing viable were hellbat drops followed by tanks harrass.
That was just early game; it hardly ever transitioned into mech beyond that except in TvT.
whenever i watched osl or proleague it was always hellbat drops followed by tanks,hellbat,thor or hellion armies.Until bomber beat innovation or flash after the nerf I did not see any succesfull high level bio in osl or proleague.
That's because we hardly ever saw the game go beyond hellbat drops.
On August 19 2013 15:14 winthrop wrote: get some steppes , blizzard. Or we may see flash playing riot games
I don't think we will ever see Flash switch to LoL given how much he's put into SC2 so far. He probably says its interesting because it's something new. After playing a 1v1 game for so long he probably finds the team aspect fresh and exciting.
On August 19 2013 13:52 KingFool wrote: Wrong game. Wrong race. Wrong life decision. This interview seems brutal
agreed, this is the most depressing sc2 interview ever.
lol that's what I felt too. I really wish I were still watching Flash play BW. Even Dota or LoL feels more of a spiritual successor to BW than SC2 does.
On August 19 2013 13:52 KingFool wrote: Wrong game. Wrong race. Wrong life decision. This interview seems brutal
agreed, this is the most depressing sc2 interview ever.
lol that's what I felt too. I really wish I were still watching Flash play BW. Even Dota or LoL feels more of a spiritual successor to BW than SC2 does.
Sad truth. There was way more excitement around Brood War. Not to mention an overall more enjoyable spectator experience.
Reddit and TL would implode if Flash suddenly switched to LoL but I'd love to see it happen Whatever makes him feel better since he doesn't seem to be quite happy where he is now...
I hope Flash doesn't give up the Mech fight, he's one of the few pros I know of that are vocal about the issue of wanting Mech back for Terran.
Very few pros have the kind of influence he does, maybe if he keeps voicing that opinion the devs might rethink their unilateral stance of wanting to keep Mech irrelevant.
On August 19 2013 16:01 Kergy wrote: Reddit and TL would implode if Flash suddenly switched to LoL but I'd love to see it happen Whatever makes him feel better since he doesn't seem to be quite happy where he is now...
who knows, that interviewer seemed like he was putting pressure on him, i feel like he might have been just giving the polite reply considering league is so popular.
On August 19 2013 16:15 Vindicare605 wrote: I hope Flash doesn't give up the Mech fight, he's one of the few pros I know of that are vocal about the issue of wanting Mech back for Terran.
Very few pros have the kind of influence he does, maybe if he keeps voicing that opinion the devs might rethink their unilateral stance of wanting to keep Mech irrelevant.
Not enough pros use or try mech on a big stage to draw attention to it. Yeah Bomber tried it on Rain on OSL but it was pretty bad and no one thought it would work (I guess that is the problem with it). When was the last time mech was a real, promising option in a non TvT matchup? Mvp vs Life?
Really great to see Flash respect League of Legends. Random master level SC2 players get all elitists but the fucking god of motherfucking Starcraft Broodwar respects the game, that's great to see.
On August 19 2013 16:15 Vindicare605 wrote: I hope Flash doesn't give up the Mech fight, he's one of the few pros I know of that are vocal about the issue of wanting Mech back for Terran.
Very few pros have the kind of influence he does, maybe if he keeps voicing that opinion the devs might rethink their unilateral stance of wanting to keep Mech irrelevant.
Hasn't MVP been vocal about balance too? I'm not sure if it was mech TvZ/TvP specifically, but even despite the gap in fame between the two, it seems like professional opinions -- even legendary ones, have regularly fallen on deaf ears.
On August 19 2013 16:15 Vindicare605 wrote: I hope Flash doesn't give up the Mech fight, he's one of the few pros I know of that are vocal about the issue of wanting Mech back for Terran.
Very few pros have the kind of influence he does, maybe if he keeps voicing that opinion the devs might rethink their unilateral stance of wanting to keep Mech irrelevant.
Not enough pros use or try mech on a big stage to draw attention to it. Yeah Bomber tried it on Rain on OSL but it was pretty bad and no one thought it would work (I guess that is the problem with it). When was the last time mech was a real, promising option in a non TvT matchup? Mvp vs Life?
I'm not trying to start a Mvp circlejerk here but I seriously can't think of anyone else who has tried to use mech vs Zerg in HotS and actually won with it on a high profile stage.
Hopefully blizzard will take some steps to improving SC2. They've already improved (compare the 2010 blizzard "Do you even want chat channels?" to the current 2013 blizzard who are more active in the community) but still it needs improvement.
I would hate to see a legend such as Flash quit SC2 because of blizzard's piss poor management of their esports game.
On August 19 2013 13:52 KingFool wrote: Wrong game. Wrong race. Wrong life decision. This interview seems brutal
agreed, this is the most depressing sc2 interview ever.
The former CJ coach's interview is more depressing.
Would you happen to have a link to it? Also I thought the ruler talk was incredibly funny.
"I don't agree with the statement that esports is in a crisis situation. LOL is doing really well right now so why is esports in a crisis? Why is the crisis for SC2 (and Korean SC2 at that) lumped as an esports crisis? Of course that would be because all the corporations have managed SC2 centric teams until now. I think we're just going through a period of trial and error. LOL is doing well, but another game could emerge and have great success at any time, and the baton will continue being passed. People can't help but play games. Recreational culture like Go and Janggi is still alive and games will probably grow even further than that. In the end, the game may change, but I think growth will continue under the banner of esports."
There are already many LOL teams that have been formed under KeSPA, including CJ. For the past year, LOL players have sprung up everywhere and that is still the case now. Isn't it a bit late to make a LOL team now?
"I don't think that way. Did TaekBangLeeSsang do well in Starcraft because they started first? There will always be emerging new heroes that surpass that era. There's nothing that can't be done just because you're a latecomer. A methodical system is important, but the most important thing is making sure that players play a game because they want to. That's the difference between Starcraft 1 and Starcraft 2. To put it bluntly, there aren't many players that started SC2 like that. It's good if they naturally get into a game because it's fun, but having to study a game just for the purposes of being good at it isn't good. But LOL is different. Everyone really wants to play it. If that prerequisite is in place, then all I need to do is offer a clear goal to players. That goal may be different for everyone, but I think finding that is my specialty. If I were to give a little hint, I hate all the players becoming consumables. I'm confident I can form a consensus with players."
On August 19 2013 16:15 Vindicare605 wrote: I hope Flash doesn't give up the Mech fight, he's one of the few pros I know of that are vocal about the issue of wanting Mech back for Terran.
Very few pros have the kind of influence he does, maybe if he keeps voicing that opinion the devs might rethink their unilateral stance of wanting to keep Mech irrelevant.
Not enough pros use or try mech on a big stage to draw attention to it. Yeah Bomber tried it on Rain on OSL but it was pretty bad and no one thought it would work (I guess that is the problem with it). When was the last time mech was a real, promising option in a non TvT matchup? Mvp vs Life?
The fact none of them are using it should be evidence enough shouldn't it? Especially when in Flash's case they WANT to?
These are guys that are playing to win with money on the line, they aren't going to use a strategy on televised games that they aren't absolutely confident in. I can be sure that nearly every Terran pro at some point has tried meching in practice or on the ladder. Saying, "well we don't know it's weak unless they use it where we can see it." is a dumb argument.
On August 19 2013 13:59 Wildmoon wrote: What's funny is in BW, it was always mech except for TvZ but Flash said there was a choice. -_-"
Like many people I don't know much about BroodWar strategies, so it's your word against Flash word to us. In order to fully understand what chance your word stands against his when it comes to BroodWar, you must first understand a thing or two about quantum mechanics and Planck length. From wikipedia: "the Planck length is so many orders of magnitude smaller than any current instrument could possibly measure..."
On August 19 2013 16:15 Vindicare605 wrote: I hope Flash doesn't give up the Mech fight, he's one of the few pros I know of that are vocal about the issue of wanting Mech back for Terran.
Very few pros have the kind of influence he does, maybe if he keeps voicing that opinion the devs might rethink their unilateral stance of wanting to keep Mech irrelevant.
Not enough pros use or try mech on a big stage to draw attention to it. Yeah Bomber tried it on Rain on OSL but it was pretty bad and no one thought it would work (I guess that is the problem with it). When was the last time mech was a real, promising option in a non TvT matchup? Mvp vs Life?
The fact none of them are using it should be evidence enough shouldn't it? Especially when in Flash's case they WANT to?
These are guys that are playing to win with money on the line, they aren't going to use a strategy on televised games that they aren't absolutely confident in. I can be sure that nearly every Terran pro at some point has tried meching in practice or on the ladder. Saying, "well we don't know it's weak unless they use it where we can see it." is a dumb argument.
Not sure why you are arguing with me. I said not enough pros have tried it, thus not a lot of negative attention. Not that we have lack of evidence. Mech lacks attention.
Basically I am saying "we knew Bomber was dumb for using mech vs Rain because everyone knows it doesn't work" and "no one has used mech non TvT since Mvp, and that reveals something of a problem (that no one has used it since)", not that we don't have enough evidence -_-''
On August 19 2013 13:54 ETisME wrote: I think the reason why Flash said he was excited to play every game in BW is because it was more popular. (not him) (星际1的人气最高的时候每次出场都让人感到开心。现在是感受不到那时候的气氛了) And thank god (/flash) for speaking out for mech style.
Hopefully David Kim can start opening his mind up before saying things like "do we even want mech to be as viable as bio?"
Starcraft 1 popularity at its peak, everytime I went out to play I felt happy. Now I cannot feel the atmosphere anymore..
I remember Flash said Protoss is very strong and force field is very good~~ Ahhh.. Shit, now I keep imagine how he uses force field... Maybe in his mind, he has alot ideas to use force field. But we never know now..
Can he do a switch now? Or will it set him back alot?
On August 19 2013 16:15 Vindicare605 wrote: I hope Flash doesn't give up the Mech fight, he's one of the few pros I know of that are vocal about the issue of wanting Mech back for Terran.
Very few pros have the kind of influence he does, maybe if he keeps voicing that opinion the devs might rethink their unilateral stance of wanting to keep Mech irrelevant.
Not enough pros use or try mech on a big stage to draw attention to it. Yeah Bomber tried it on Rain on OSL but it was pretty bad and no one thought it would work (I guess that is the problem with it). When was the last time mech was a real, promising option in a non TvT matchup? Mvp vs Life?
The fact none of them are using it should be evidence enough shouldn't it? Especially when in Flash's case they WANT to?
These are guys that are playing to win with money on the line, they aren't going to use a strategy on televised games that they aren't absolutely confident in. I can be sure that nearly every Terran pro at some point has tried meching in practice or on the ladder. Saying, "well we don't know it's weak unless they use it where we can see it." is a dumb argument.
Not sure why you are arguing with me. I said not enough pros have tried it, thus not a lot of negative attention. Not that we have lack of evidence. Mech lacks attention.
Basically I am saying "we knew Bomber was dumb for using mech vs Rain because everyone knows it doesn't work" and "no one has used mech non TvT since Mvp, and that reveals something of a problem (that no one has used it since)", not that we don't have enough evidence -_-''
The negative attention is in them not using it. I'm pretty sure the other poster is correct to argue that its pretty silly a Terran player might play mech like as if it were a public statement to draw attention to mech with money on the line.
On August 19 2013 16:15 Vindicare605 wrote: I hope Flash doesn't give up the Mech fight, he's one of the few pros I know of that are vocal about the issue of wanting Mech back for Terran.
Very few pros have the kind of influence he does, maybe if he keeps voicing that opinion the devs might rethink their unilateral stance of wanting to keep Mech irrelevant.
Not enough pros use or try mech on a big stage to draw attention to it. Yeah Bomber tried it on Rain on OSL but it was pretty bad and no one thought it would work (I guess that is the problem with it). When was the last time mech was a real, promising option in a non TvT matchup? Mvp vs Life?
The fact none of them are using it should be evidence enough shouldn't it? Especially when in Flash's case they WANT to?
These are guys that are playing to win with money on the line, they aren't going to use a strategy on televised games that they aren't absolutely confident in. I can be sure that nearly every Terran pro at some point has tried meching in practice or on the ladder. Saying, "well we don't know it's weak unless they use it where we can see it." is a dumb argument.
Not sure why you are arguing with me. I said not enough pros have tried it, thus not a lot of negative attention. Not that we have lack of evidence. Mech lacks attention.
Basically I am saying "we knew Bomber was dumb for using mech vs Rain because everyone knows it doesn't work" and "no one has used mech non TvT since Mvp, and that reveals something of a problem (that no one has used it since)", not that we don't have enough evidence -_-''
The negative attention is in them not using it. I'm pretty sure the other poster is correct to argue that its pretty silly a Terran player might play mech like as if it were a public statement to draw attention to mech with money on the line.
Yes it is negative attention not to use it. But is it enough?
Blizz and anti-Terran fans will always point to the "we haven't seen people use it how can we know it's bad" argument, and point at winrates.
Yes I know those aren't good arguments. But mech buffs will have a hard time receiving popular backing as long as Terran keeps winning without mech and people can still make the above argument.
Poor Flash, wanted to play Protoss, shame your made a bad move there You can make Terran work though, i have faith mr Flash, im sure David Kim will email you with some things you might want changed
Also he asked about LoL because it's a joint interview with the Korean God of LoL, CJ Frost's Madlife. It's a joint interview with the two current icons of e-sports in Korea.
On August 19 2013 15:13 SAFenix wrote: Wow even Flash is talking about how LoL is interesting. Also, when he says after during games in BW, he would feel excitement, it makes me think he intends to tell us he is not enjoying Starcraft 2. This interview makes me sad for our scene but also happy that such a player like Flash has graced us by being in it.
I thought the excitement part might have referred to the spectators being excited about Flash playing and not his own feelings when going into a match. Also I doubt he'd ever say negative things about LoL in an dual-interview with a LoL player.
Poor Flash got teased by Blizzard when they were all "yeah making mech viable is a priority for us in hots bla bla etc" Now in hots the iconic siege tank is no where to be seen except in TvT and instead we have bioballs running around with unlimited stim because of huge medivac counts. Remember the days when you had to spend gas on tanks and therefore only had a few medivacs and the zerg could bait out stims and it actually mattered? If the day comes when Flash enjoys the strategic options in this game then he will be back on the throne. Stay strong!
On August 19 2013 13:47 insectoidform wrote: How can flash think he has the same skill in LoL as he does in sc2? In LoL there 100+ champions to pick from while in sc2 there are 3 races. The amount of strategies that are employed in that game will never be understood by someone that plays a 1v1.
On August 19 2013 13:47 insectoidform wrote: How can flash think he has the same skill in LoL as he does in sc2? In LoL there 100+ champions to pick from while in sc2 there are 3 races. The amount of strategies that are employed in that game will never be understood by someone that plays a 1v1.
You read it wrong. It's the interviewer who says that
He might as well have said it because the interviewer said so. If you tackle someone on a basketball court, the team suffers because a player gets a penalty. If this game is to be taken seriously as an E-sport and be on the level of basketball he will have to take the penalty for the interviewer will he not?
So if the interviewer said Flash enjoyed stabbing people in his spare time, would we accept that and think "Hmm, there's a chance the interviewer did a mis-translation OR the more likely option: Flash is a serial kill." You've got a good point. It's the only way we can take SC2 to the next level.
This is the tradeoff for Esports to be taken as seriously as a real sport. Otherwise it is teenagers playing a video game. In the real world, if you say something it is taken seriously, just like on a basketball court. Why should this be any different?
...You, sir, need to stop pretending as if you mean what you said. You know perfectly well how wrong you are.
In the world of interviews, its -often- that the interviewer has made a mistake. It is often that the interviewee needs to correct them on their mistake. If you mean to tell me that an interviewer messing up should be blamed on the player, even after the player has attempted to correct the interviewers mistake, then I refuse to believe thats your honest viewpoint.
Looking forward to seeing more variation, more transitions etc. Even if "Mech was played most" in TvP BW, it was still a more fluid mech. You couldn't just mass tanks. It was a measurement of Tanks and Vultures to keep a healthy amount of flank and map control. Afterwards, you'd need to add in Science Vessels for EMP and detection. Assuming he'd go air, you'd have to have a transition to Goliath/Wraith ready. It was a fluid and transitional mech, with each unit serving a purpose.
On August 19 2013 17:41 Fionn wrote: Also he asked about LoL because it's a joint interview with the Korean God of LoL, CJ Frost's Madlife. It's a joint interview with the two current icons of e-sports in Korea.
Is there a translated version of madlifes interview ?
Strange how people perceive Bombers failed Hellbat/ Thor experiment as the ultimate proof of mech not being viable. Not saying that it is but that game isn't exactly a good example of it.
On August 19 2013 18:13 Penev wrote: Strange how people perceive Bombers failed Hellbat/ Thor experiment as the ultimate proof of mech not being viable. Not saying that it is but that game isn't exactly a good example of it.
Sorry but using just 1 and a half of a mech is NOT a mech army ...
On August 19 2013 18:13 Penev wrote: Strange how people perceive Bombers failed Hellbat/ Thor experiment as the ultimate proof of mech not being viable. Not saying that it is but that game isn't exactly a good example of it.
Sorry but using just 1 and a half of a mech is NOT a mech army ...
On August 19 2013 13:47 insectoidform wrote: How can flash think he has the same skill in LoL as he does in sc2? In LoL there 100+ champions to pick from while in sc2 there are 3 races. The amount of strategies that are employed in that game will never be understood by someone that plays a 1v1.
You read it wrong. It's the interviewer who says that
He might as well have said it because the interviewer said so. If you tackle someone on a basketball court, the team suffers because a player gets a penalty. If this game is to be taken seriously as an E-sport and be on the level of basketball he will have to take the penalty for the interviewer will he not?
On August 19 2013 16:28 HazMat wrote: Really great to see Flash respect League of Legends. Random master level SC2 players get all elitists but the fucking god of motherfucking Starcraft Broodwar respects the game, that's great to see.
I hate LoL, but a very well worded good point, made me LOL hard, I'm not being sarcastic. But still, he is one of the most polite progamers out there and it is a joint interview with a LoL player, just saying..
On August 19 2013 18:13 Penev wrote: Strange how people perceive Bombers failed Hellbat/ Thor experiment as the ultimate proof of mech not being viable. Not saying that it is but that game isn't exactly a good example of it.
Hellbat/Thor isn't mech, it's Protoss with Terran units.
Mech involves using the Siege Tank as a backbone, positional play, turtling, and slowly creeping the map with depot walls and turrets, eliminating bases and securing advantages.
The Siege Tank proved too strong in the WoL beta, but here we are 3 years later and the Siege Tank is nearly unused in non-mirror matchups. I think David Kim needs to start taking a look at the Siege Tank. If not only for balance, but for more variety in Terran play and interest for spectators.
On August 19 2013 18:13 Penev wrote: Strange how people perceive Bombers failed Hellbat/ Thor experiment as the ultimate proof of mech not being viable. Not saying that it is but that game isn't exactly a good example of it.
That's because there were many more failures than just Bombers. Relatively recently we had attempts from Maru, Dayshi, Beastyqt and Strelok using different openings and mid-game transitions. Of them only a single one worked and it was a 2 base all-in.
On August 19 2013 13:47 insectoidform wrote: How can flash think he has the same skill in LoL as he does in sc2? In LoL there 100+ champions to pick from while in sc2 there are 3 races. The amount of strategies that are employed in that game will never be understood by someone that plays a 1v1.
You read it wrong. It's the interviewer who says that
He might as well have said it because the interviewer said so. If you tackle someone on a basketball court, the team suffers because a player gets a penalty. If this game is to be taken seriously as an E-sport and be on the level of basketball he will have to take the penalty for the interviewer will he not?
Ahahaha, made my day.. I don't even want to understeand, so much fun.. :D
On August 19 2013 18:13 Penev wrote: Strange how people perceive Bombers failed Hellbat/ Thor experiment as the ultimate proof of mech not being viable. Not saying that it is but that game isn't exactly a good example of it.
Hellbat/Thor isn't mech, it's Protoss with Terran units.
Mech involves using the Siege Tank as a backbone, positional play, turtling, and slowly creeping the map with depot walls and turrets, eliminating bases and securing advantages.
The Siege Tank proved too strong in the WoL beta, but here we are 3 years later and the Siege Tank is nearly unused in non-mirror matchups. I think David Kim needs to start taking a look at the Siege Tank. If not only for balance, but for more variety in Terran play and interest for spectators.
I must have worded my post badly I guess? Yes I agree, just Hellbats + Thors isn't mech.
On August 19 2013 18:13 Penev wrote: Strange how people perceive Bombers failed Hellbat/ Thor experiment as the ultimate proof of mech not being viable. Not saying that it is but that game isn't exactly a good example of it.
That's because there were many more failures than just Bombers. Relatively recently we had attempts from Maru, Dayshi, Beastyqt and Strelok using different openings and mid-game transitions. Of them only a single one worked and it was a 2 base all-in.
I'm aware of the current status of mech. But the Bomber Rain match shouldn't be used as an example for how good or bad mech is in HotS. That wasn't mech; He just massed Hellbats and Thors and a-moved into storms and Immortals.
On August 19 2013 18:13 Penev wrote: Strange how people perceive Bombers failed Hellbat/ Thor experiment as the ultimate proof of mech not being viable. Not saying that it is but that game isn't exactly a good example of it.
Since Kop? (I think) we haven't seen mech in Korea outside of TvT in HoTS... ever I think?
If that doesn't show it's not viable then I have no idea what people need to do to make it obvious to you.
There was a time when my fans like to give rulers to me as gift. Before every game, I use a 30CM ruler to measure my mousepad, the height of the Mouse Bungee, the distance between monitor and keyboard, etc. When I saw the rulers from my fans, I realized for the first time that there are so many kinds of rulers. Sometimes I receive 5-6 rulers everyday. And they are all different.
Also this is the best thing I've ever heard. 5-6 rulers a day... damn he has quite the collection :D
On August 19 2013 15:47 tl2212 wrote: FLASH WAS REALLY A PROTOSS PLAYER ALL ALONG
He's like nal ra and reach , i hope he transitions into protoss in sc2.
this is actually amazing. this is such an awesome interview
If you understood how to play LoL as 2 characters at one time, you would understand how to play starcraft as LoL x 100
Wasn't anyone else disturbed by his protoss play in allstar matches? His offrace protoss looked as good as some of the worse dragons.
This thread as usually is more sane than the reddit thread.
On August 19 2013 16:15 Vindicare605 wrote: I hope Flash doesn't give up the Mech fight, he's one of the few pros I know of that are vocal about the issue of wanting Mech back for Terran.
Very few pros have the kind of influence he does, maybe if he keeps voicing that opinion the devs might rethink their unilateral stance of wanting to keep Mech irrelevant.
BW Mech was awesome to watch. Is that possible in a game where bio is so strong? Questionable. Would the casual playerbase survive going mech v protoss every time? Even more questionable.
On August 19 2013 18:13 Penev wrote: Strange how people perceive Bombers failed Hellbat/ Thor experiment as the ultimate proof of mech not being viable.
Not saying that it is but that game isn't exactly a good example of it.
Since Kop? (I think) we haven't seen mech in Korea outside of TvT in HoTS... ever I think?
If that doesn't show it's not viable then I have no idea what people need to do to make it obvious to you.
There was a time when my fans like to give rulers to me as gift. Before every game, I use a 30CM ruler to measure my mousepad, the height of the Mouse Bungee, the distance between monitor and keyboard, etc. When I saw the rulers from my fans, I realized for the first time that there are so many kinds of rulers. Sometimes I receive 5-6 rulers everyday. And they are all different.
Also this is the best thing I've ever heard. 5-6 rulers a day... damn he has quite the collection :D
I'm curious; How do you interpret this sentence?
Not saying that it is but that game isn't exactly a good example of it.
On August 19 2013 16:15 Vindicare605 wrote: I hope Flash doesn't give up the Mech fight, he's one of the few pros I know of that are vocal about the issue of wanting Mech back for Terran.
Very few pros have the kind of influence he does, maybe if he keeps voicing that opinion the devs might rethink their unilateral stance of wanting to keep Mech irrelevant.
BW Mech was awesome to watch. Is that possible in a game where bio is so strong? Questionable. Would the casual playerbase survive going mech v protoss every time? Even more questionable.
Allstar match? I didnt watch it.. is it recent games? I wanna watch ..
I remember 1 interview saying Bisu more suited for terran, more multitask. And Flash say Protoss is good for him. Turtling and composition and he like force field ....
weird how flash said that you could go mech or bio in BW against protoss. i swear it was only mech and bio was crap against protoss and only good against zerg
TBH is nice to see that the best players are just as frustrated with SC2 as some fans are (me ). If the fans criticism is ignored and viewed as "hating" then hopefully Flashs opinion will be seen as feedback.
On August 19 2013 17:41 Fionn wrote: Also he asked about LoL because it's a joint interview with the Korean God of LoL, CJ Frost's Madlife. It's a joint interview with the two current icons of e-sports in Korea.
That is good for context, because it seemed weird they were asking that out of the blue. I love how people are just taking that to mean that SC2 is failing because Flash says "They should have more prize money." Because there is a really good chance a pro gamer would say "Nah, we are getting enough right now."
Seriously, we never miss a chance to shit on the game.
Although flash wishes he played protoss in this game, im glad he plays terran. Hopefully the results will come soon enough making him one of the best consistent SC2 pro gamers.
Q: Terran is the strongest race in BW. But Protoss is stronger in SC2. Have you thought about changing race?
Flash: I am still regretting about that even to today. When I first played SC2, I was already thinking that Protoss is really good. Even now I still think that. The management of SC2’s Protoss is exactly the same as BW’s Terran. First, you defend, then you produce your composition, and then move out. The most urgent thing about SC2’s Terran is to ameliorate mech. In BW, going bio or going mech is a choice and will make your opponent guessing and confused. But now SC2 is 100% bio, so you can’t play mind game and you don’t have strategic choice.
oh shit .. if flash really thinks terran is onedimensional i would love to see him switch to toss .. and this should be the blizz balance team indicator that mech MUST BE VIABLE. .. the highest level progamer from BW is already telling them .. i dont understand D. Kim hesitation over this
On August 19 2013 20:08 Kaeru wrote: Don't play LoL Flash, please go for Dota insted if you're gonna play something else for fun!
yeah dota is better
They both have their merits LoL is the more balanced and fun to play game (imo).
really depends on per person basis .. i had fun with dota (although i am playing it for almost 8 years now) .. i tried Lol i didnt have much fun and it felt awkward to play the game .. maybe its just me
On August 19 2013 18:13 Penev wrote: Strange how people perceive Bombers failed Hellbat/ Thor experiment as the ultimate proof of mech not being viable. Not saying that it is but that game isn't exactly a good example of it.
Hellbat/Thor isn't mech, it's Protoss with Terran units.
Mech involves using the Siege Tank as a backbone, positional play, turtling, and slowly creeping the map with depot walls and turrets, eliminating bases and securing advantages.
The Siege Tank proved too strong in the WoL beta, but here we are 3 years later and the Siege Tank is nearly unused in non-mirror matchups. I think David Kim needs to start taking a look at the Siege Tank. If not only for balance, but for more variety in Terran play and interest for spectators.
more options is definitely better .. it would be nice to see two-kinds crowd control units to be utilized alternatively or together .. not just widow mine for zerg and pure bio + viking for protoss
On August 19 2013 19:33 acinx wrote: weird how flash said that you could go mech or bio in BW against protoss. i swear it was only mech and bio was crap against protoss and only good against zerg
Bio gets destroyed by P once templars hit but there were various bio timings/builds like deep six. Atm in SC2 Mech timings aren't even viable in the meta-game.
TvZ also both mech and bio viable. In SC2, not really. MMMM just so much better than mech.
Don't mean to sound hateful or anything but sometimes I forget that those guys are nerds that play videogames for life, and there's only so much money and "fame" can make it to you, relationship wise.
This interview kinda made me feel better about myself. While I'm not in the 6-figure pay check club yet, at least I'm not a virgin, have my own house, have lots of friends, free time, hang out a lot, etc. I still don't have a qt3.14 kr gf tho ;_;
About the prize money, LoL may very well be bigger, but it's split in 5 guys, so there ya go.
And protoss being the stronger race in sc2.... well........................
On August 19 2013 19:29 Sabu113 wrote: I think limited mobility mech is more interesting than hyper dps hyper mobile bio.
The problem is mech play probably cannot be fun or deep in SC2 due to its fundamental design. MEch is all about positional play and controlling space. The most fundamental change SC2 made is precisely making positioning far less important, in multiple ways.
flash said in an earlier interview that he sticks with terran because the crowd expects it of him... also bad interview questions in terms of: Protoss is stronger.. this kind of prejudgement doesn't belong in an interview that should be accepted and read by all races... This kind of questions turns always everything into a race war... really disappointed about this...
Im not going to lie. Although there are no data to back up my claim, I reckon about half the fan base playing this game is playing because its "starcraft". Theres no other alternative RTS to jump ship to since games like dota/LoL aren't in that genre (1v1v ladder is where the game is at! ).
Like someone already mentioned, I feel as if most pro players find this game not fun at all and are playing because its their "job". The game does look shiny indeed.. but if you put it under a microscope.. or hell put your glasses on the game itself is one dimensional with primitive "countering" system that favors aggression over defense while promoting "action" over "strategy" in a god damn RTS game.
edit - for the love of god, water down the hard counters, bring back mech (positional play not some A-move thors/hellbats) so that 70% of the units in SC2 can actually become part of the metagame already /smh. Almost all the units not used are actually counters to the siege tank haha what a design mess.
On August 19 2013 21:48 YyapSsap wrote: Im not going to lie. Although there are no data to back up my claim, I reckon about half the fan base playing this game is playing because its "starcraft". Theres no other alternative RTS to jump ship to since games like dota/LoL aren't in that genre (1v1v ladder is where the game is at! ).
Like someone already mentioned, I feel as if most pro players find this game not fun at all and are playing because its their "job". The game does look shiny indeed.. but if you put it under a microscope.. or hell put your glasses on the game itself is one dimensional with primitive "countering" system that favors aggression over defense while promoting "action" over "strategy" in a god damn RTS game.
Haha, everybody complains about SC2 being too passive and turtley. I also don't get this countering system, what counter Marine Marauder Medivac / Ghost Viking vs Protoss / Mine vs Zerg?
On August 19 2013 21:48 YyapSsap wrote: Im not going to lie. Although there are no data to back up my claim, I reckon about half the fan base playing this game is playing because its "starcraft". Theres no other alternative RTS to jump ship to since games like dota/LoL aren't in that genre (1v1v ladder is where the game is at! ).
Like someone already mentioned, I feel as if most pro players find this game not fun at all and are playing because its their "job". The game does look shiny indeed.. but if you put it under a microscope.. or hell put your glasses on the game itself is one dimensional with primitive "countering" system that favors aggression over defense while promoting "action" over "strategy" in a god damn RTS game.
Haha, everybody complains about SC2 being too passive and turtley. I also don't get this countering system, what counter Marine Marauder Medivac / Ghost Viking vs Protoss / Mine vs Zerg?
They could fix the passive/turtley nature if they actually fixed the game economy and how easily you can get up to 200/200 in under 13mins. Im sure there was a TL thread on this.. but basically they need to make it so that you need less workers i.e. less income/makes harasses a little less effective, gives more incentive to get more bases, mineral patch/gas geyser adjustments along with how the macro boosts work.
On August 19 2013 21:48 YyapSsap wrote: Im not going to lie. Although there are no data to back up my claim, I reckon about half the fan base playing this game is playing because its "starcraft". Theres no other alternative RTS to jump ship to since games like dota/LoL aren't in that genre (1v1v ladder is where the game is at! ).
Like someone already mentioned, I feel as if most pro players find this game not fun at all and are playing because its their "job". The game does look shiny indeed.. but if you put it under a microscope.. or hell put your glasses on the game itself is one dimensional with primitive "countering" system that favors aggression over defense while promoting "action" over "strategy" in a god damn RTS game.
Haha, everybody complains about SC2 being too passive and turtley. I also don't get this countering system, what counter Marine Marauder Medivac / Ghost Viking vs Protoss / Mine vs Zerg?
They could fix the passive/turtley nature if they actually fixed the game economy and how easily you can get up to 200/200 in under 13mins. Im sure there was a TL thread on this.. but basically they need to make it so that you need less workers i.e. less income/makes harasses a little less effective, gives more incentive to get more bases, mineral patch/gas geyser adjustments along with how the macro boosts work.
Jesus, give us a break, already. We don't need this kind of discussion in every thread.
On August 19 2013 21:10 Xpace wrote: The title made me laugh out loud... lol, bw, mech, ruler & girl. 5 topics nobody would ever string in an interview except with Flash.
lol me too .. the ruler is what made it awkward .. how the hell did they get to talk about rulers ? seriously ?
On August 19 2013 21:48 YyapSsap wrote: Im not going to lie. Although there are no data to back up my claim, I reckon about half the fan base playing this game is playing because its "starcraft". Theres no other alternative RTS to jump ship to since games like dota/LoL aren't in that genre (1v1v ladder is where the game is at! ).
Like someone already mentioned, I feel as if most pro players find this game not fun at all and are playing because its their "job". The game does look shiny indeed.. but if you put it under a microscope.. or hell put your glasses on the game itself is one dimensional with primitive "countering" system that favors aggression over defense while promoting "action" over "strategy" in a god damn RTS game.
Haha, everybody complains about SC2 being too passive and turtley. I also don't get this countering system, what counter Marine Marauder Medivac / Ghost Viking vs Protoss / Mine vs Zerg?
They could fix the passive/turtley nature if they actually fixed the game economy and how easily you can get up to 200/200 in under 13mins. Im sure there was a TL thread on this.. but basically they need to make it so that you need less workers i.e. less income/makes harasses a little less effective, gives more incentive to get more bases, mineral patch/gas geyser adjustments along with how the macro boosts work.
Jesus, give us a break, already. We don't need this kind of discussion in every thread.
Oh, but we do. Nothing makes people enjoy SC2 more than everyone one the world complaining about it in every thread. Seriously Flash talks about other things like finding a girlfriend, being envious of people going to college and spending almost all his time practicing. All of those are interesting topics. Yet the only thing people focus on is LoL vs SC2 and complaining about mech.
On August 19 2013 21:48 YyapSsap wrote: Im not going to lie. Although there are no data to back up my claim, I reckon about half the fan base playing this game is playing because its "starcraft". Theres no other alternative RTS to jump ship to since games like dota/LoL aren't in that genre (1v1v ladder is where the game is at! ).
Like someone already mentioned, I feel as if most pro players find this game not fun at all and are playing because its their "job". The game does look shiny indeed.. but if you put it under a microscope.. or hell put your glasses on the game itself is one dimensional with primitive "countering" system that favors aggression over defense while promoting "action" over "strategy" in a god damn RTS game.
Haha, everybody complains about SC2 being too passive and turtley. I also don't get this countering system, what counter Marine Marauder Medivac / Ghost Viking vs Protoss / Mine vs Zerg?
They could fix the passive/turtley nature if they actually fixed the game economy and how easily you can get up to 200/200 in under 13mins. Im sure there was a TL thread on this.. but basically they need to make it so that you need less workers i.e. less income/makes harasses a little less effective, gives more incentive to get more bases, mineral patch/gas geyser adjustments along with how the macro boosts work.
Jesus, give us a break, already. We don't need this kind of discussion in every thread.
Oh, but we do. Nothing makes people enjoy SC2 more than everyone one the world complaining about it in every thread. Seriously Flash talks about other things like finding a girlfriend, being envious of people going to college and spending almost all his time practicing. All of those are interesting topics. Yet the only thing people focus on is LoL vs SC2 and complaining about mech.
uhmm .. i think because TL is about gaming discussion ? since the thread is not on the general section ?
On August 19 2013 21:48 YyapSsap wrote: Im not going to lie. Although there are no data to back up my claim, I reckon about half the fan base playing this game is playing because its "starcraft". Theres no other alternative RTS to jump ship to since games like dota/LoL aren't in that genre (1v1v ladder is where the game is at! ).
Like someone already mentioned, I feel as if most pro players find this game not fun at all and are playing because its their "job". The game does look shiny indeed.. but if you put it under a microscope.. or hell put your glasses on the game itself is one dimensional with primitive "countering" system that favors aggression over defense while promoting "action" over "strategy" in a god damn RTS game.
Haha, everybody complains about SC2 being too passive and turtley. I also don't get this countering system, what counter Marine Marauder Medivac / Ghost Viking vs Protoss / Mine vs Zerg?
They could fix the passive/turtley nature if they actually fixed the game economy and how easily you can get up to 200/200 in under 13mins. Im sure there was a TL thread on this.. but basically they need to make it so that you need less workers i.e. less income/makes harasses a little less effective, gives more incentive to get more bases, mineral patch/gas geyser adjustments along with how the macro boosts work.
Jesus, give us a break, already. We don't need this kind of discussion in every thread.
Oh, but we do. Nothing makes people enjoy SC2 more than everyone one the world complaining about it in every thread. Seriously Flash talks about other things like finding a girlfriend, being envious of people going to college and spending almost all his time practicing. All of those are interesting topics. Yet the only thing people focus on is LoL vs SC2 and complaining about mech.
uhmm .. i think because TL is about gaming discussion ? since the thread is not on the general section ?
Those are still part of the interview and interesting topics about the life of one of the top Korean professional gamers. His insight into mech and how it should function are interesting. But the LoL vs SC2 is one of the most over discussed topics on TL.
On August 19 2013 21:48 YyapSsap wrote: Im not going to lie. Although there are no data to back up my claim, I reckon about half the fan base playing this game is playing because its "starcraft". Theres no other alternative RTS to jump ship to since games like dota/LoL aren't in that genre (1v1v ladder is where the game is at! ).
Like someone already mentioned, I feel as if most pro players find this game not fun at all and are playing because its their "job". The game does look shiny indeed.. but if you put it under a microscope.. or hell put your glasses on the game itself is one dimensional with primitive "countering" system that favors aggression over defense while promoting "action" over "strategy" in a god damn RTS game.
Haha, everybody complains about SC2 being too passive and turtley. I also don't get this countering system, what counter Marine Marauder Medivac / Ghost Viking vs Protoss / Mine vs Zerg?
They could fix the passive/turtley nature if they actually fixed the game economy and how easily you can get up to 200/200 in under 13mins. Im sure there was a TL thread on this.. but basically they need to make it so that you need less workers i.e. less income/makes harasses a little less effective, gives more incentive to get more bases, mineral patch/gas geyser adjustments along with how the macro boosts work.
Jesus, give us a break, already. We don't need this kind of discussion in every thread.
Oh, but we do. Nothing makes people enjoy SC2 more than everyone one the world complaining about it in every thread. Seriously Flash talks about other things like finding a girlfriend, being envious of people going to college and spending almost all his time practicing. All of those are interesting topics. Yet the only thing people focus on is LoL vs SC2 and complaining about mech.
uhmm .. i think because TL is about gaming discussion ? since the thread is not on the general section ?
It's fine to talk about the game and Flash has made some good obversations how you could (possibly) improve the game but as usual the hate-train arrived at the thread and bored everyone to death with the same whining used in literally every thread related to Blizzard or Stracraft.
There is a fine line between constructice critizism and useless bitching about a game someone doesn't seem to enjoy. And as mentioned SC2 vs LoL is really getting old.
On August 19 2013 13:54 ETisME wrote: I think the reason why Flash said he was excited to play every game in BW is because it was more popular. (not him) (星际1的人气最高的时候每次出场都让人感到开心。现在是感受不到那时候的气氛了) And thank god (/flash) for speaking out for mech style.
Hopefully David Kim can start opening his mind up before saying things like "do we even want mech to be as viable as bio?"
Starcraft 1 popularity at its peak, everytime I went out to play I felt happy. Now I cannot feel the atmosphere anymore..
I remember Flash said Protoss is very strong and force field is very good~~ Ahhh.. Shit, now I keep imagine how he uses force field... Maybe in his mind, he has alot ideas to use force field. But we never know now..
Can he do a switch now? Or will it set him back alot?
We can only speculate but it worked out quite well for Classic who switched to Protoss for HotS in round 5, won against Fantasy in his first match and got a 3-1 score in total. In round 6 he beat Rain, Turn, Puzzle, Effort, JYP and only lost to sOs.
On August 19 2013 21:48 YyapSsap wrote: Im not going to lie. Although there are no data to back up my claim, I reckon about half the fan base playing this game is playing because its "starcraft". Theres no other alternative RTS to jump ship to since games like dota/LoL aren't in that genre (1v1v ladder is where the game is at! ).
Like someone already mentioned, I feel as if most pro players find this game not fun at all and are playing because its their "job". The game does look shiny indeed.. but if you put it under a microscope.. or hell put your glasses on the game itself is one dimensional with primitive "countering" system that favors aggression over defense while promoting "action" over "strategy" in a god damn RTS game.
Haha, everybody complains about SC2 being too passive and turtley. I also don't get this countering system, what counter Marine Marauder Medivac / Ghost Viking vs Protoss / Mine vs Zerg?
They could fix the passive/turtley nature if they actually fixed the game economy and how easily you can get up to 200/200 in under 13mins. Im sure there was a TL thread on this.. but basically they need to make it so that you need less workers i.e. less income/makes harasses a little less effective, gives more incentive to get more bases, mineral patch/gas geyser adjustments along with how the macro boosts work.
Jesus, give us a break, already. We don't need this kind of discussion in every thread.
Oh, but we do. Nothing makes people enjoy SC2 more than everyone one the world complaining about it in every thread. Seriously Flash talks about other things like finding a girlfriend, being envious of people going to college and spending almost all his time practicing. All of those are interesting topics. Yet the only thing people focus on is LoL vs SC2 and complaining about mech.
Don't worry, once the "problem" (I'll just state that it is a problem, since most professionals agree) is fixed, I bet people will stop complaining.
Anyways, I really wonder what Flash does to keep his wrists from breaking (again). He seems to play a lot and due to his medical history, he must be very diligent about his wrists.
On August 19 2013 21:48 YyapSsap wrote: Im not going to lie. Although there are no data to back up my claim, I reckon about half the fan base playing this game is playing because its "starcraft". Theres no other alternative RTS to jump ship to since games like dota/LoL aren't in that genre (1v1v ladder is where the game is at! ).
Like someone already mentioned, I feel as if most pro players find this game not fun at all and are playing because its their "job". The game does look shiny indeed.. but if you put it under a microscope.. or hell put your glasses on the game itself is one dimensional with primitive "countering" system that favors aggression over defense while promoting "action" over "strategy" in a god damn RTS game.
Haha, everybody complains about SC2 being too passive and turtley. I also don't get this countering system, what counter Marine Marauder Medivac / Ghost Viking vs Protoss / Mine vs Zerg?
They could fix the passive/turtley nature if they actually fixed the game economy and how easily you can get up to 200/200 in under 13mins. Im sure there was a TL thread on this.. but basically they need to make it so that you need less workers i.e. less income/makes harasses a little less effective, gives more incentive to get more bases, mineral patch/gas geyser adjustments along with how the macro boosts work.
Jesus, give us a break, already. We don't need this kind of discussion in every thread.
Oh, but we do. Nothing makes people enjoy SC2 more than everyone one the world complaining about it in every thread. Seriously Flash talks about other things like finding a girlfriend, being envious of people going to college and spending almost all his time practicing. All of those are interesting topics. Yet the only thing people focus on is LoL vs SC2 and complaining about mech.
Don't worry, once the "problem" (I'll just state that it is a problem, since most professionals agree) is fixed, I bet people will stop complaining.
Anyways, I really wonder what Flash does to keep his wrists from breaking (again). He seems to play a lot and due to his medical history, he must be very diligent about his wrists.
Mech would be an interesting alternative to bio and I think the game would be better if it was an option. I think the problem is that people don’t know how to make mech better without making the game more passive and boring. If Blizzard wants to make mech better, they should work on harassment options for terrans that do not involve the medivac and center around factor units, rather than buff the siege tank like everyone keeps asking for.
On August 19 2013 13:52 KingFool wrote: Wrong game. Wrong race. Wrong life decision. This interview seems brutal
agreed, this is the most depressing sc2 interview ever.
The former CJ coach's interview is more depressing.
Would you happen to have a link to it? Also I thought the ruler talk was incredibly funny.
"I don't agree with the statement that esports is in a crisis situation. LOL is doing really well right now so why is esports in a crisis? Why is the crisis for SC2 (and Korean SC2 at that) lumped as an esports crisis? Of course that would be because all the corporations have managed SC2 centric teams until now. I think we're just going through a period of trial and error. LOL is doing well, but another game could emerge and have great success at any time, and the baton will continue being passed. People can't help but play games. Recreational culture like Go and Janggi is still alive and games will probably grow even further than that. In the end, the game may change, but I think growth will continue under the banner of esports."
There are already many LOL teams that have been formed under KeSPA, including CJ. For the past year, LOL players have sprung up everywhere and that is still the case now. Isn't it a bit late to make a LOL team now?
"I don't think that way. Did TaekBangLeeSsang do well in Starcraft because they started first? There will always be emerging new heroes that surpass that era. There's nothing that can't be done just because you're a latecomer. A methodical system is important, but the most important thing is making sure that players play a game because they want to. That's the difference between Starcraft 1 and Starcraft 2. To put it bluntly, there aren't many players that started SC2 like that. It's good if they naturally get into a game because it's fun, but having to study a game just for the purposes of being good at it isn't good. But LOL is different. Everyone really wants to play it. If that prerequisite is in place, then all I need to do is offer a clear goal to players. That goal may be different for everyone, but I think finding that is my specialty. If I were to give a little hint, I hate all the players becoming consumables. I'm confident I can form a consensus with players."
On August 19 2013 21:48 YyapSsap wrote: Im not going to lie. Although there are no data to back up my claim, I reckon about half the fan base playing this game is playing because its "starcraft". Theres no other alternative RTS to jump ship to since games like dota/LoL aren't in that genre (1v1v ladder is where the game is at! ).
Like someone already mentioned, I feel as if most pro players find this game not fun at all and are playing because its their "job". The game does look shiny indeed.. but if you put it under a microscope.. or hell put your glasses on the game itself is one dimensional with primitive "countering" system that favors aggression over defense while promoting "action" over "strategy" in a god damn RTS game.
Haha, everybody complains about SC2 being too passive and turtley. I also don't get this countering system, what counter Marine Marauder Medivac / Ghost Viking vs Protoss / Mine vs Zerg?
They could fix the passive/turtley nature if they actually fixed the game economy and how easily you can get up to 200/200 in under 13mins. Im sure there was a TL thread on this.. but basically they need to make it so that you need less workers i.e. less income/makes harasses a little less effective, gives more incentive to get more bases, mineral patch/gas geyser adjustments along with how the macro boosts work.
Jesus, give us a break, already. We don't need this kind of discussion in every thread.
Oh, but we do. Nothing makes people enjoy SC2 more than everyone one the world complaining about it in every thread. Seriously Flash talks about other things like finding a girlfriend, being envious of people going to college and spending almost all his time practicing. All of those are interesting topics. Yet the only thing people focus on is LoL vs SC2 and complaining about mech.
Don't worry, once the "problem" (I'll just state that it is a problem, since most professionals agree) is fixed, I bet people will stop complaining.
Anyways, I really wonder what Flash does to keep his wrists from breaking (again). He seems to play a lot and due to his medical history, he must be very diligent about his wrists.
Mech would be an interesting alternative to bio and I think the game would be better if it was an option. I think the problem is that people don’t know how to make mech better without making the game more passive and boring. If Blizzard wants to make mech better, they should work on harassment options for terrans that do not involve the medivac and center around factor units, rather than buff the siege tank like everyone keeps asking for.
Well, mech can use the medivac a lot (widow mines and hellbat drops) and banshee openings transition quite well into mech play. Not to mention hellion runbies. I think Mech is a style that can harass very heavily in HotS.
I really believe that the tank/thor - the main combat units - are the problem. Especially with the tank: due to how it works (long range, slow, setup, expensive in cost/supply, only GtG capable unit), it is simply questionable that there are units in the game that can beat it in a deathball vs deathball battle - aka ultralisks, immortals, archons. I think in theory mass tank should just beat any form of equal cost ground army if the tanks are sieged, simply judging from its design and costs. And the gameplay to counter tankplay should be to abuse mobility, economy and air units. The problem is, you can easily combine the tank with the marine which already rapes most ground and all air units. So the tank cannot be able to do what it was designed for, as you cannot abuse mobility, economy and air units against a marine/tank build.
On August 19 2013 21:48 YyapSsap wrote: Im not going to lie. Although there are no data to back up my claim, I reckon about half the fan base playing this game is playing because its "starcraft". Theres no other alternative RTS to jump ship to since games like dota/LoL aren't in that genre (1v1v ladder is where the game is at! ).
Like someone already mentioned, I feel as if most pro players find this game not fun at all and are playing because its their "job". The game does look shiny indeed.. but if you put it under a microscope.. or hell put your glasses on the game itself is one dimensional with primitive "countering" system that favors aggression over defense while promoting "action" over "strategy" in a god damn RTS game.
Haha, everybody complains about SC2 being too passive and turtley. I also don't get this countering system, what counter Marine Marauder Medivac / Ghost Viking vs Protoss / Mine vs Zerg?
They could fix the passive/turtley nature if they actually fixed the game economy and how easily you can get up to 200/200 in under 13mins. Im sure there was a TL thread on this.. but basically they need to make it so that you need less workers i.e. less income/makes harasses a little less effective, gives more incentive to get more bases, mineral patch/gas geyser adjustments along with how the macro boosts work.
Jesus, give us a break, already. We don't need this kind of discussion in every thread.
Oh, but we do. Nothing makes people enjoy SC2 more than everyone one the world complaining about it in every thread. Seriously Flash talks about other things like finding a girlfriend, being envious of people going to college and spending almost all his time practicing. All of those are interesting topics. Yet the only thing people focus on is LoL vs SC2 and complaining about mech.
Don't worry, once the "problem" (I'll just state that it is a problem, since most professionals agree) is fixed, I bet people will stop complaining.
Anyways, I really wonder what Flash does to keep his wrists from breaking (again). He seems to play a lot and due to his medical history, he must be very diligent about his wrists.
Mech would be an interesting alternative to bio and I think the game would be better if it was an option. I think the problem is that people don’t know how to make mech better without making the game more passive and boring. If Blizzard wants to make mech better, they should work on harassment options for terrans that do not involve the medivac and center around factor units, rather than buff the siege tank like everyone keeps asking for.
Well, mech can use the medivac a lot (widow mines and hellbat drops) and banshee openings transition quite well into mech play. Not to mention hellion runbies. I think Mech is a style that can harass very heavily in HotS.
I really believe that the tank/thor - the main combat units - are the problem. Especially with the tank: due to how it works (long range, slow, setup, expensive in cost/supply, only GtG capable unit), it is simply questionable that there are units in the game that can beat it in a deathball vs deathball battle - aka ultralisks, immortals, archons. I think in theory mass tank should just beat any form of equal cost ground army if the tanks are sieged, simply judging from its design and costs. And the gameplay to counter tankplay should be to abuse mobility, economy and air units. The problem is, you can easily combine the tank with the marine which already rapes most ground and all air units. So the tank cannot be able to do what it was designed for, as you cannot abuse mobility, economy and air units against a marine/tank build.
you can still easily use mobilty vs a terran who goes bio no matter what race you play and we see it alot, zealot-zerglings and marines have been used to pull terran bio-comps apart, and there are a bunch of other tools you have to make bio look slow.
On August 19 2013 21:48 YyapSsap wrote: Im not going to lie. Although there are no data to back up my claim, I reckon about half the fan base playing this game is playing because its "starcraft". Theres no other alternative RTS to jump ship to since games like dota/LoL aren't in that genre (1v1v ladder is where the game is at! ).
Like someone already mentioned, I feel as if most pro players find this game not fun at all and are playing because its their "job". The game does look shiny indeed.. but if you put it under a microscope.. or hell put your glasses on the game itself is one dimensional with primitive "countering" system that favors aggression over defense while promoting "action" over "strategy" in a god damn RTS game.
Haha, everybody complains about SC2 being too passive and turtley. I also don't get this countering system, what counter Marine Marauder Medivac / Ghost Viking vs Protoss / Mine vs Zerg?
They could fix the passive/turtley nature if they actually fixed the game economy and how easily you can get up to 200/200 in under 13mins. Im sure there was a TL thread on this.. but basically they need to make it so that you need less workers i.e. less income/makes harasses a little less effective, gives more incentive to get more bases, mineral patch/gas geyser adjustments along with how the macro boosts work.
Jesus, give us a break, already. We don't need this kind of discussion in every thread.
Oh, but we do. Nothing makes people enjoy SC2 more than everyone one the world complaining about it in every thread. Seriously Flash talks about other things like finding a girlfriend, being envious of people going to college and spending almost all his time practicing. All of those are interesting topics. Yet the only thing people focus on is LoL vs SC2 and complaining about mech.
Don't worry, once the "problem" (I'll just state that it is a problem, since most professionals agree) is fixed, I bet people will stop complaining.
Anyways, I really wonder what Flash does to keep his wrists from breaking (again). He seems to play a lot and due to his medical history, he must be very diligent about his wrists.
Mech would be an interesting alternative to bio and I think the game would be better if it was an option. I think the problem is that people don’t know how to make mech better without making the game more passive and boring. If Blizzard wants to make mech better, they should work on harassment options for terrans that do not involve the medivac and center around factor units, rather than buff the siege tank like everyone keeps asking for.
Well, I don't really want to derail the thread, so I try to keep it short: The main reason (that I see), why some people claim that sc2 is boring, is that whole battles might be decided within the blink of an eye. The ratio (action time / buildup time) is important.
Good interview, interesting insights into Flash's life and feelings. And then I broke the #1 rule of the internet "Don't read the comments." and now my brain feels like it's melting a bit. The screeching about LoL (from both sides) is a little much.
Anyway, had no idea about the rulers thing, and with as many fangirls as people have been saying Flash has I would have expected him to have a girlfriend.
BW is awesome because although there are "soft" counters, every unit has a high skill cap that allows the players to overcome these differences.
I am sad that Flash is held back by SC2. Despite him saying he will play for another 4 years, I hope he retires and plays BW again. He misses BW and obviously is not enjoying SC2. This is not going to change once he starts winning tournaments.
Could swear there's also older matches where Flash played a PvT as protoss and was ridiculously good.
I think limited mobility mech is more interesting than hyper dps hyper mobile bio.
That's because Blizzard completely fucked up the tradeoff between mobility and power. Armies with limited mobility should be able to trade efficiently with more mobile armies since you have to split them all over the map. Mobile armies are just way too powerful for the entirety of the game's lifespan. I followed SC2 from the moment it was revealed and it seemed almost every other unit they introduced was something that can counter the siege tank by being A-moved into it. The lurker was just removed straight up.
In many ways, terran is actually the zerg race of SC2. It's difficult for the more famous players to switch races since they have already established a reputation and a fanbase with their race.
sigh, feel bad for flash. david kim just sees things a lot differently from him in terms of the direction the gameplay of sc2 is going. i wish he'd just switch to protoss if it'll make things better. i'm sure the fans will still be fans even if he did this. i know i'll be
On August 19 2013 23:14 purakushi wrote: BW is awesome because although there are "soft" counters, every unit has a high skill cap that allows the players to overcome these differences.
I am sad that Flash is held back by SC2. Despite him saying he will play for another 4 years, I hope he retires and plays BW again. He misses BW and obviously is not enjoying SC2. This is not going to change once he starts winning tournaments.
I have to thank SC2 for slowly revitalising BW.
Also, LoL is a good game.
I think I have discovered a long hidden scientific revelation: BW-Fans can read the minds of players and exactly tell if they enjoy a game or not.
Have you ever considered working for the NSA? Who needs Prism when you have telepaths.
On August 19 2013 13:59 Wildmoon wrote: What's funny is in BW, it was always mech except for TvZ but Flash said there was a choice. -_-"
Deep Six. There's always a choice.
Deep Six...... nah... let's do the Bio Mech push . Seriously I miss flash playing broodwar and no matter what games he play right now I would spiritually support you . Still looking at flash comments about sc2 not being so versatile as broodwar was is kind of enlightening for me maybe some one will listen now.
Speaking of Flash, why isn't there a thread on TL about him beginning to stream very soon? I saw the thread on reddit, but I assumed it would've made it over here aswell!
On August 20 2013 00:06 eurTsItniH wrote: Speaking of Flash, why isn't there a thread on TL about him beginning to stream very soon? I saw the thread on reddit, but I assumed it would've made it over here aswell!
On August 19 2013 13:59 Wildmoon wrote: What's funny is in BW, it was always mech except for TvZ but Flash said there was a choice. -_-"
Deep Six. There's always a choice.
Deep Six...... nah... let's do the Bio Mech push . Seriously I miss flash playing broodwar and no matter what games he play right now I would spiritually support you . Still looking at flash comments about sc2 not being so versatile as broodwar was is kind of enlightening for me maybe some one will listen now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvKI6wIzzsQ
On August 19 2013 16:15 Vindicare605 wrote: I hope Flash doesn't give up the Mech fight, he's one of the few pros I know of that are vocal about the issue of wanting Mech back for Terran.
Very few pros have the kind of influence he does, maybe if he keeps voicing that opinion the devs might rethink their unilateral stance of wanting to keep Mech irrelevant.
Not enough pros use or try mech on a big stage to draw attention to it. Yeah Bomber tried it on Rain on OSL but it was pretty bad and no one thought it would work (I guess that is the problem with it). When was the last time mech was a real, promising option in a non TvT matchup? Mvp vs Life?
The fact none of them are using it should be evidence enough shouldn't it? Especially when in Flash's case they WANT to?
These are guys that are playing to win with money on the line, they aren't going to use a strategy on televised games that they aren't absolutely confident in. I can be sure that nearly every Terran pro at some point has tried meching in practice or on the ladder. Saying, "well we don't know it's weak unless they use it where we can see it." is a dumb argument.
Not sure why you are arguing with me. I said not enough pros have tried it, thus not a lot of negative attention. Not that we have lack of evidence. Mech lacks attention.
Basically I am saying "we knew Bomber was dumb for using mech vs Rain because everyone knows it doesn't work" and "no one has used mech non TvT since Mvp, and that reveals something of a problem (that no one has used it since)", not that we don't have enough evidence -_-''
The negative attention is in them not using it. I'm pretty sure the other poster is correct to argue that its pretty silly a Terran player might play mech like as if it were a public statement to draw attention to mech with money on the line.
Yes it is negative attention not to use it. But is it enough?
Blizz and anti-Terran fans will always point to the "we haven't seen people use it how can we know it's bad" argument, and point at winrates.
Yes I know those aren't good arguments. But mech buffs will have a hard time receiving popular backing as long as Terran keeps winning without mech and people can still make the above argument.
But we know that the anti-Terran fans who actually try to argue "we don't see mech" are genuinely dumb and short sighted. Every time one rears its head it gets shot down. I have a hard time believing that Blizzard is holding back on buffing mech for reasons that primarily revolve around reading those arguments on the cesspool of the battle net forums. That would have to imply serious incompetence -- more so than people like to casually throw around because their/x race is up/op. I'm inclined to say it's more likely that Blizzard is either being extremely cautious about not breaking a match-up, or they just dont want to see mech being equally viable.
On August 19 2013 23:14 purakushi wrote: BW is awesome because although there are "soft" counters, every unit has a high skill cap that allows the players to overcome these differences.
I am sad that Flash is held back by SC2. Despite him saying he will play for another 4 years, I hope he retires and plays BW again. He misses BW and obviously is not enjoying SC2. This is not going to change once he starts winning tournaments.
I have to thank SC2 for slowly revitalising BW.
Also, LoL is a good game.
I think I have discovered a long hidden scientific revelation: BW-Fans can read the minds of players and exactly tell if they enjoy a game or not.
Have you ever considered working for the NSA? Who needs Prism when you have telepaths.
I think it is pretty clear from the interview that Flash does not enjoy SC2. At the very least, he explicitly stated he misses BW and his regret about playing SC2 Terran. He continues to play by "accepting the reality" of not doing as well in SC2 and the poor state of SC2/Terran gameplay.
When I first played SC2, I was already thinking that Protoss is really good. Even now I still think that. The management of SC2’s Protoss is exactly the same as BW’s Terran. First, you defend, then you produce your composition, and then move out.
And then go to reddit where the next flavor of the week "omg Forcefields and Warpgates" - thread is running berserk.
When I saw the rulers from my fans, I realized for the first time that there are so many kinds of rulers. Sometimes I receive 5-6 rulers everyday. And they are all different.
On August 19 2013 13:47 insectoidform wrote: How can flash think he has the same skill in LoL as he does in sc2? In LoL there 100+ champions to pick from while in sc2 there are 3 races. The amount of strategies that are employed in that game will never be understood by someone that plays a 1v1.
You read it wrong. It's the interviewer who says that
He might as well have said it because the interviewer said so. If you tackle someone on a basketball court, the team suffers because a player gets a penalty. If this game is to be taken seriously as an E-sport and be on the level of basketball he will have to take the penalty for the interviewer will he not?
He might as well have said it because the interviewer said so. If you tackle someone on a basketball court, the team suffers because a player gets a penalty. If this game is to be taken seriously as an E-sport and be on the level of basketball he will have to take the penalty for the interviewer will he not?[/QUOTE] another retard who doesnt wanna admit that he was stupid..
When I think about it last night, the reason that Flash says mech should be improved in two occasions (he said that in the other interview) is that frontal combat is more of his style than harassment. But SC2's Terran is almost entirely based on harassment such as drop and multifront attack. Flash basically can't play his game, though he is still very good.
On August 19 2013 21:48 YyapSsap wrote: Im not going to lie. Although there are no data to back up my claim, I reckon about half the fan base playing this game is playing because its "starcraft". Theres no other alternative RTS to jump ship to since games like dota/LoL aren't in that genre (1v1v ladder is where the game is at! ).
Like someone already mentioned, I feel as if most pro players find this game not fun at all and are playing because its their "job". The game does look shiny indeed.. but if you put it under a microscope.. or hell put your glasses on the game itself is one dimensional with primitive "countering" system that favors aggression over defense while promoting "action" over "strategy" in a god damn RTS game.
edit - for the love of god, water down the hard counters, bring back mech (positional play not some A-move thors/hellbats) so that 70% of the units in SC2 can actually become part of the metagame already /smh. Almost all the units not used are actually counters to the siege tank haha what a design mess.
You aren't wrong I reckon, I only pay sc2 because I have literally no other decent 1v1 alternative, now that I have hearthstone I haven't touched sc2 in a while. Blizzard really needs to step up and improve this game but we all know they won't.
Maybe we should all just go back to BW they still have some tournaments going on and the game is still fun, maybe if Blizzard sees people going back to bw they will capitalise on it and make lotv more bw sequence.
I feel a little sorry for pro gamers like Flash. I am sure he enjoys sc2, but maybe not enough to dedicate himself to the game like he did with bw. Thing is there are currently no other RTS games to turn to at a pro level, meaning he would have to probably switch to a MOBA to stay as a pro gamer and that would surely be a disappointment in some regards for an uber skilled player such as Flash.
When I first played SC2, I was already thinking that Protoss is really good. Even now I still think that. The management of SC2’s Protoss is exactly the same as BW’s Terran. First, you defend, then you produce your composition, and then move out.
And then go to reddit where the next flavor of the week "omg Forcefields and Warpgates" - thread is running berserk.
The thread was started because of Flash's statement, fyi.
On August 20 2013 01:08 Big J wrote: It's funny to read that part:
When I first played SC2, I was already thinking that Protoss is really good. Even now I still think that. The management of SC2’s Protoss is exactly the same as BW’s Terran. First, you defend, then you produce your composition, and then move out.
And then go to reddit where the next flavor of the week "omg Forcefields and Warpgates" - thread is running berserk.
The thread was started because of Flash's statement, fyi.
yeah, I know the thread starts like that. But never says what about the Flash interview made him think that Protoss is shit designed. I mean, Flash basically says he likes how Protoss is being played.
On August 20 2013 01:08 Big J wrote: It's funny to read that part:
When I first played SC2, I was already thinking that Protoss is really good. Even now I still think that. The management of SC2’s Protoss is exactly the same as BW’s Terran. First, you defend, then you produce your composition, and then move out.
And then go to reddit where the next flavor of the week "omg Forcefields and Warpgates" - thread is running berserk.
The thread was started because of Flash's statement, fyi.
Yes, but we don't need to feed into it. Just because a progamer says another race is powerful does not mean that it is fact. Protoss are on the upswing, but that doesn't mean that they are going to be amazing forever. If you listened to Meta this week with artotsis, Terrans are already trying new shit against them.
On August 20 2013 01:08 Big J wrote: It's funny to read that part:
When I first played SC2, I was already thinking that Protoss is really good. Even now I still think that. The management of SC2’s Protoss is exactly the same as BW’s Terran. First, you defend, then you produce your composition, and then move out.
And then go to reddit where the next flavor of the week "omg Forcefields and Warpgates" - thread is running berserk.
The thread was started because of Flash's statement, fyi.
Yes, but we don't need to feed into it. Just because a progamer says another race is powerful does not mean that it is fact. Protoss are on the upswing, but that doesn't mean that they are going to be amazing forever. If you listened to Meta this week with artotsis, Terrans are already trying new shit against them.
On August 19 2013 13:59 Wildmoon wrote: What's funny is in BW, it was always mech except for TvZ but Flash said there was a choice. -_-"
Like many people I don't know much about BroodWar strategies, so it's your word against Flash word to us. In order to fully understand what chance your word stands against his when it comes to BroodWar, you must first understand a thing or two about quantum mechanics and Planck length. From wikipedia: "the Planck length is so many orders of magnitude smaller than any current instrument could possibly measure..."
There are also many people here who did follow BW though and they would confirm that bio was only really used against Zerg in BW. It is alright to be sceptical because many people on here don't know what they are talking about but this one is right this time.
On August 20 2013 00:06 eurTsItniH wrote: Speaking of Flash, why isn't there a thread on TL about him beginning to stream very soon? I saw the thread on reddit, but I assumed it would've made it over here aswell!
On August 20 2013 01:08 Big J wrote: It's funny to read that part:
When I first played SC2, I was already thinking that Protoss is really good. Even now I still think that. The management of SC2’s Protoss is exactly the same as BW’s Terran. First, you defend, then you produce your composition, and then move out.
And then go to reddit where the next flavor of the week "omg Forcefields and Warpgates" - thread is running berserk.
The thread was started because of Flash's statement, fyi.
Yes, but we don't need to feed into it. Just because a progamer says another race is powerful does not mean that it is fact. Protoss are on the upswing, but that doesn't mean that they are going to be amazing forever. If you listened to Meta this week with artotsis, Terrans are already trying new shit against them.
What new shit? You mean the shit called mech?
Why don't you go listen to Meta from last week and you can hear all about it? They discuss the change in the meta at lenght.
On August 20 2013 00:06 eurTsItniH wrote: Speaking of Flash, why isn't there a thread on TL about him beginning to stream very soon? I saw the thread on reddit, but I assumed it would've made it over here aswell!
On August 20 2013 01:08 Big J wrote: It's funny to read that part:
When I first played SC2, I was already thinking that Protoss is really good. Even now I still think that. The management of SC2’s Protoss is exactly the same as BW’s Terran. First, you defend, then you produce your composition, and then move out.
And then go to reddit where the next flavor of the week "omg Forcefields and Warpgates" - thread is running berserk.
The thread was started because of Flash's statement, fyi.
Yes, but we don't need to feed into it. Just because a progamer says another race is powerful does not mean that it is fact. Protoss are on the upswing, but that doesn't mean that they are going to be amazing forever. If you listened to Meta this week with artotsis, Terrans are already trying new shit against them.
What new shit? You mean the shit called mech?
Why don't you go listen to Meta from last week and you can hear all about it? They discuss the change in the meta at lenght.
So you mean the different builds and timings of MMMVG right?
On August 20 2013 01:08 Big J wrote: It's funny to read that part:
When I first played SC2, I was already thinking that Protoss is really good. Even now I still think that. The management of SC2’s Protoss is exactly the same as BW’s Terran. First, you defend, then you produce your composition, and then move out.
And then go to reddit where the next flavor of the week "omg Forcefields and Warpgates" - thread is running berserk.
The thread was started because of Flash's statement, fyi.
Yes, but we don't need to feed into it. Just because a progamer says another race is powerful does not mean that it is fact. Protoss are on the upswing, but that doesn't mean that they are going to be amazing forever. If you listened to Meta this week with artotsis, Terrans are already trying new shit against them.
What new shit? You mean the shit called mech?
Why don't you go listen to Meta from last week and you can hear all about it? They discuss the change in the meta at lenght.
So you mean the different builds and timings of MMMVG right?
I think they discussed how Korean Terrans are considering 3CC openings safe these days.
On August 20 2013 01:08 Big J wrote: It's funny to read that part:
When I first played SC2, I was already thinking that Protoss is really good. Even now I still think that. The management of SC2’s Protoss is exactly the same as BW’s Terran. First, you defend, then you produce your composition, and then move out.
And then go to reddit where the next flavor of the week "omg Forcefields and Warpgates" - thread is running berserk.
The thread was started because of Flash's statement, fyi.
Yes, but we don't need to feed into it. Just because a progamer says another race is powerful does not mean that it is fact. Protoss are on the upswing, but that doesn't mean that they are going to be amazing forever. If you listened to Meta this week with artotsis, Terrans are already trying new shit against them.
What new shit? You mean the shit called mech?
Why don't you go listen to Meta from last week and you can hear all about it? They discuss the change in the meta at lenght.
So you mean the different builds and timings of MMMVG right?
It was a 15 minute discussion about openings and what is safe and what the new openings are and how protoss will respond. But yes, it was not about the new glorious return of mech, if that is what you are asking.
On August 20 2013 01:08 Big J wrote: It's funny to read that part:
When I first played SC2, I was already thinking that Protoss is really good. Even now I still think that. The management of SC2’s Protoss is exactly the same as BW’s Terran. First, you defend, then you produce your composition, and then move out.
And then go to reddit where the next flavor of the week "omg Forcefields and Warpgates" - thread is running berserk.
The thread was started because of Flash's statement, fyi.
Yes, but we don't need to feed into it. Just because a progamer says another race is powerful does not mean that it is fact. Protoss are on the upswing, but that doesn't mean that they are going to be amazing forever. If you listened to Meta this week with artotsis, Terrans are already trying new shit against them.
What new shit? You mean the shit called mech?
Why don't you go listen to Meta from last week and you can hear all about it? They discuss the change in the meta at lenght.
So you mean the different builds and timings of MMMVG right?
It was a 15 minute discussion about openings and what is safe and what the new openings are and how protoss will respond. But yes, it was not about the new glorious return of mech, if that is what you are asking.
I think I watched that. Maybe I was expecting "new shit" means something really new. I guess you may think 3CC is a really new thing.
On August 20 2013 01:08 Big J wrote: It's funny to read that part:
When I first played SC2, I was already thinking that Protoss is really good. Even now I still think that. The management of SC2’s Protoss is exactly the same as BW’s Terran. First, you defend, then you produce your composition, and then move out.
And then go to reddit where the next flavor of the week "omg Forcefields and Warpgates" - thread is running berserk.
The thread was started because of Flash's statement, fyi.
Yes, but we don't need to feed into it. Just because a progamer says another race is powerful does not mean that it is fact. Protoss are on the upswing, but that doesn't mean that they are going to be amazing forever. If you listened to Meta this week with artotsis, Terrans are already trying new shit against them.
What new shit? You mean the shit called mech?
Why don't you go listen to Meta from last week and you can hear all about it? They discuss the change in the meta at lenght.
So you mean the different builds and timings of MMMVG right?
I think they discussed how Korean Terrans are considering 3CC openings safe these days.
With MC in Europe I guess there's no-one left to 6gate immortal all-in them into oblivion.
On August 20 2013 02:18 Swift118 wrote: I feel a little sorry for pro gamers like Flash. I am sure he enjoys sc2, but maybe not enough to dedicate himself to the game like he did with bw. Thing is there are currently no other RTS games to turn to at a pro level, meaning he would have to probably switch to a MOBA to stay as a pro gamer and that would surely be a disappointment in some regards for an uber skilled player such as Flash.
I'm pretty sure Flash is already disappointed in some regards with SC2 because he is an uber skilled player. If anything, MOBAs might reignite some of his passion because he has to work as a team. He might even find passion in being a coach, or switching to the BW amateur scene.
It seems to me a lot of people disregard how much strategy is truly involved in MOBA games.
On August 20 2013 01:08 Big J wrote: It's funny to read that part:
When I first played SC2, I was already thinking that Protoss is really good. Even now I still think that. The management of SC2’s Protoss is exactly the same as BW’s Terran. First, you defend, then you produce your composition, and then move out.
And then go to reddit where the next flavor of the week "omg Forcefields and Warpgates" - thread is running berserk.
The thread was started because of Flash's statement, fyi.
Yes, but we don't need to feed into it. Just because a progamer says another race is powerful does not mean that it is fact. Protoss are on the upswing, but that doesn't mean that they are going to be amazing forever. If you listened to Meta this week with artotsis, Terrans are already trying new shit against them.
What new shit? You mean the shit called mech?
Why don't you go listen to Meta from last week and you can hear all about it? They discuss the change in the meta at lenght.
So you mean the different builds and timings of MMMVG right?
I think they discussed how Korean Terrans are considering 3CC openings safe these days.
With MC in Europe I guess there's no-one left to 6gate immortal all-in them into oblivion.
Well, what did you expect when the only SC2's OSL back-to-back finalist does 3 gate immortal all-in. EDIT: on interview: dammit, poor Flash EDIT2: Another note: sometimes i start to feel like most KeSPA players feel like Terran in BW(*hint*Classic*hint*) = Toss in SC2 and so is Toss in BW (*cough*Bisu*cough*)=Terran in SC2.
On August 20 2013 01:08 Big J wrote: It's funny to read that part:
When I first played SC2, I was already thinking that Protoss is really good. Even now I still think that. The management of SC2’s Protoss is exactly the same as BW’s Terran. First, you defend, then you produce your composition, and then move out.
And then go to reddit where the next flavor of the week "omg Forcefields and Warpgates" - thread is running berserk.
The thread was started because of Flash's statement, fyi.
Yes, but we don't need to feed into it. Just because a progamer says another race is powerful does not mean that it is fact. Protoss are on the upswing, but that doesn't mean that they are going to be amazing forever. If you listened to Meta this week with artotsis, Terrans are already trying new shit against them.
What new shit? You mean the shit called mech?
Why don't you go listen to Meta from last week and you can hear all about it? They discuss the change in the meta at lenght.
So you mean the different builds and timings of MMMVG right?
I think they discussed how Korean Terrans are considering 3CC openings safe these days.
With MC in Europe I guess there's no-one left to 6gate immortal all-in them into oblivion.
Its just the standard shift in the meta from aggression, followed by safe builds from the defender stopping most aggression and then the aggressive players moving to more greedy builds. It will always be like that and I am sure the protoss will figure out awesome ways to punish the greedy 3 cc openers when they scout them after a while.
On August 19 2013 13:59 Wildmoon wrote: What's funny is in BW, it was always mech except for TvZ but Flash said there was a choice. -_-"
Deep Six. There's always a choice.
Deep Six...... nah... let's do the Bio Mech push . Seriously I miss flash playing broodwar and no matter what games he play right now I would spiritually support you . Still looking at flash comments about sc2 not being so versatile as broodwar was is kind of enlightening for me maybe some one will listen now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvKI6wIzzsQ
damn, that must be hell to pull off and to hold as well. I honestly can't see many players other than Flash being able to biomech against someone with that reaver control either. He almost broke through that but lost the reaver. Bio is difficult in TvP in BW but to some degree, it's still possible. On the other hand, mech is the way to go in TvT and TvP.
I have to say that I'm kinda disappointed that mech isn't possible in TvZ in SCII. I used to enjoy bio play but it feels so bland nowadays lol. The ability to switch from bio to mech and change up your style in BW is something I've always loved to see and it opens up so many varieties in the game. As for Flash, I wish he would just switch to protoss already. The race suits him more seeing as how he loves the defensive style. LOL at the ruler comment and sadly, I feel that he doesn't enjoy SCII as much as he did BW. Hopefully, he starts enjoys the game soon!
Didn't want to make a new thread for this strange request, but I'd REALLY appreciate it if someone could shed some light on what Flash uses as his CC hotkey, he has rebound '0' to something.
On August 20 2013 03:27 mau5mat wrote: Didn't want to make a new thread for this strange request, but I'd REALLY appreciate it if someone could shed some light on what Flash uses as his CC hotkey, he has rebound '0' to something.
On August 20 2013 03:27 mau5mat wrote: Didn't want to make a new thread for this strange request, but I'd REALLY appreciate it if someone could shed some light on what Flash uses as his CC hotkey, he has rebound '0' to something.
I have been following starcraft for more than a decade now.. What i have learned is: If you want to be at the very top, you have to enjoy the game and be 100% focused.
That is not a given anymore for Flash, SC2 is his job and he wants to meet girls (this is not to be underestimated!) and play other games This won't change in the future and that is why you won't ever see Flash dominate again, I can assure you this.
Man, I don't like and I don't watch (or maybe one induces the other) LoL, Dota etc., but still I'd very happily accept if Flash switched, he fucking deserves something better. The guy had mastered BW probably like no one else and he enjoyed his success by rights... only to discover blizzard wants to sell their new game and it doesn't mix very well with the biggest e-sport thing in history involving their other game, 10 years old. I wonder if the time has come for him to follow KT legends Nal_ra, Reach, Yellow and many others ex-bw pros into that other game.
On August 20 2013 03:49 MapleLeafSirup wrote: I have been following starcraft for more than a decade now.. What i have learned is: If you want to be at the very top, you have to enjoy the game and be 100% focused.
That is not a given anymore for Flash, SC2 is his job and he wants to meet girls (this is not to be underestimated!) and play other games This won't change in the future and that is why you won't ever see Flash dominate again, I can assure you this.
(It's amazing how good he is nonetheless)
You're half-right, but I think the fact that his problem stems from motivation means that it can be resolved. I think KT need to provide Flash with some serious competition, the KT roster is geared entirely towards Proleague and no one can challenge Flash for the ace position (if someone like Stats plays an ace match they're still viewed as Flash's right hand). Their lack of activity in individual leagues, and near-total dependence on Flash in team leagues means that this isn't fun for him any more, he's actually got the job of carrying his team.
I think if Flash could be given a chance to develop a rivalry and play in more tournaments, and his teammates step it up big time, then he'll be dominating again in no time.
On August 19 2013 16:31 Hellbat wrote: Hopefully blizzard will take some steps to improving SC2. They've already improved (compare the 2010 blizzard "Do you even want chat channels?" to the current 2013 blizzard who are more active in the community) but still it needs improvement.
I would hate to see a legend such as Flash quit SC2 because of blizzard's piss poor management of their esports game.
Don't you mean you would hate to see a legend such as Flash quit SC2 because he can only win with Terran in BW? It's funny how Terran in SC2 have all the same early game advantages such as denying scouting, repair, expanding in main with CC then float... yet require Terran be aggressive, and Flash suddenly can't win as much as before. I don't think he's well rounded and never was he just was the perfect turtle to play Terran in BW. Sorry fanboys.
On August 19 2013 16:31 Hellbat wrote: Hopefully blizzard will take some steps to improving SC2. They've already improved (compare the 2010 blizzard "Do you even want chat channels?" to the current 2013 blizzard who are more active in the community) but still it needs improvement.
I would hate to see a legend such as Flash quit SC2 because of blizzard's piss poor management of their esports game.
Don't you mean you would hate to see a legend such as Flash quit SC2 because he can only win with Terran in BW? It's funny how Terran in SC2 have all the same early game advantages such as denying scouting, repair, expanding in main with CC then float... yet require Terran be aggressive, and Flash suddenly can't win as much as before. I don't think he's well rounded and never was he just was the perfect turtle to play Terran in BW. Sorry fanboys.
you haven't been watching enough of his matches to make such an opinion as this. He was known as a cheezer early in his career, then developed a fully macro/micro based game based on unique openings and timings where he would be ahead in upgrades for like 2 minutes. He would also knew how to counter every unit to every race. Flash could be the only one that could be a random player and win OSL TBHWY
On August 19 2013 16:31 Hellbat wrote: Hopefully blizzard will take some steps to improving SC2. They've already improved (compare the 2010 blizzard "Do you even want chat channels?" to the current 2013 blizzard who are more active in the community) but still it needs improvement.
I would hate to see a legend such as Flash quit SC2 because of blizzard's piss poor management of their esports game.
Don't you mean you would hate to see a legend such as Flash quit SC2 because he can only win with Terran in BW? It's funny how Terran in SC2 have all the same early game advantages such as denying scouting, repair, expanding in main with CC then float... yet require Terran be aggressive, and Flash suddenly can't win as much as before. I don't think he's well rounded and never was he just was the perfect turtle to play Terran in BW. Sorry fanboys.
Hence all the talk of Protoss in SC2 being closer to what Terran was in BW than the actual SC2 Terran is.
But no, fuck reading comprehension, let's just throw a wild edgy post out there instead.
On August 19 2013 16:31 Hellbat wrote: Hopefully blizzard will take some steps to improving SC2. They've already improved (compare the 2010 blizzard "Do you even want chat channels?" to the current 2013 blizzard who are more active in the community) but still it needs improvement.
I would hate to see a legend such as Flash quit SC2 because of blizzard's piss poor management of their esports game.
Don't you mean you would hate to see a legend such as Flash quit SC2 because he can only win with Terran in BW? It's funny how Terran in SC2 have all the same early game advantages such as denying scouting, repair, expanding in main with CC then float... yet require Terran be aggressive, and Flash suddenly can't win as much as before. I don't think he's well rounded and never was he just was the perfect turtle to play Terran in BW. Sorry fanboys.
you haven't been watching enough of his matches to make such an opinion as this. He was known as a cheezer early in his career, then developed a fully macro/micro based game based on unique openings and timings where he would be ahead in upgrades for like 2 minutes. He would also knew how to counter every unit to every race. Flash could be the only one that could be a random player and win OSL TBHWY
Sorry, i heard there was a random (well, kinda random) player that won OSL.
On August 19 2013 18:13 Penev wrote: Strange how people perceive Bombers failed Hellbat/ Thor experiment as the ultimate proof of mech not being viable. Not saying that it is but that game isn't exactly a good example of it.
Sorry but using just 1 and a half of a mech is NOT a mech army ...
I guess it's just not a mech army until mass siegetanks can beat skytoss, Broodlord infestor, and swarmhosts.
Hey Blizzard, can we just get Terran designed so they are completely unbreakable for 40 minutes, and then have a slow pushing tank deathball supported by anti-air that builds out of factories so we don't have to scout either? B/c that's what us Terrans want... the ability to win against any composition with tanks. We are just bored with bio... killing stuff fast is so boring. We don't want no stinking harass. We want to push up the front, kill everything in the way, float our CCs above our army, invulnerable style.
On August 20 2013 03:27 mau5mat wrote: Didn't want to make a new thread for this strange request, but I'd REALLY appreciate it if someone could shed some light on what Flash uses as his CC hotkey, he has rebound '0' to something.
On August 20 2013 03:27 mau5mat wrote: Didn't want to make a new thread for this strange request, but I'd REALLY appreciate it if someone could shed some light on what Flash uses as his CC hotkey, he has rebound '0' to something.
His play, give me the urge. Makes me feel like buying SC2 and try it kekeke.
It has been a long time since I saw Flash on live game . Not sure when he will appear soon . . .
Well, GSL starts 27th August AFAIK, and he is in it. So we should see him play soon enough (but GSL has so many toss this season... and Flash's TvP is not hot (well, there are not many terrans with hot TvP :D).
haha its rly not that p is stronger, its just that p is like t was in sc1, and since terrans was best in sc1, they now complaining about not being the best anymore because they see p in their old style.
i rly think sc1 p are better sc2 terrans and sc1 terrans are better sc2 protoss xD and no one is zerg, zerg is stupid xD
On August 20 2013 05:15 Drake wrote: haha its rly not that p is stronger, its just that p is like t was in sc1, and since terrans was best in sc1, they now complaining about not being the best anymore because they see p in their old style.
i rly think sc1 p are better sc2 terrans and sc1 terrans are better sc2 protoss xD and no one is zerg, zerg is stupid xD
SC terran is good as SC2 random :D Mech terran however is SC2 toss for sure.
On August 20 2013 05:15 Drake wrote: haha its rly not that p is stronger, its just that p is like t was in sc1, and since terrans was best in sc1, they now complaining about not being the best anymore because they see p in their old style.
i rly think sc1 p are better sc2 terrans and sc1 terrans are better sc2 protoss xD and no one is zerg, zerg is stupid xD
SC terran is good as SC2 random :D Mech terran however is SC2 toss for sure.
Mech was fking hard in BW.3base pushes against P were the most stupidly hard thing to do.And TvT was very very hard.SC2 protoss on the other hand is very easy to use
On August 20 2013 05:15 Drake wrote: haha its rly not that p is stronger, its just that p is like t was in sc1, and since terrans was best in sc1, they now complaining about not being the best anymore because they see p in their old style.
i rly think sc1 p are better sc2 terrans and sc1 terrans are better sc2 protoss xD and no one is zerg, zerg is stupid xD
SC terran is good as SC2 random :D Mech terran however is SC2 toss for sure.
Mech was fking hard in BW.3base pushes against P were the most stupidly hard thing to do.And TvT was very very hard.SC2 protoss on the other hand is very easy to use
Playing BW was fking hard. From ideology sc2 toss and mech bw t look pretty darn similar to me: gather powerful army and proceed to do what you know how to do .
On August 19 2013 18:13 Penev wrote: Strange how people perceive Bombers failed Hellbat/ Thor experiment as the ultimate proof of mech not being viable. Not saying that it is but that game isn't exactly a good example of it.
Sorry but using just 1 and a half of a mech is NOT a mech army ...
I guess it's just not a mech army until mass siegetanks can beat skytoss, Broodlord infestor, and swarmhosts.
Hey Blizzard, can we just get Terran designed so they are completely unbreakable for 40 (overcharge,forcefield)minutes, and then have a slow pushing tank(collosus) deathball supported by anti-air that builds out of factories so we don't have to scout(overcharge + photon cannon in min lines) either? B/c that's what us Terrans want... the ability to win against any composition with tanks(immortals/archons). We are just bored with bio... killing stuff fast(all ins) is so boring. We don't want no stinking harass(warp prism harasss entering meta after 2.5+ years of it being considered white ra special tactics). We want to push up the front, kill everything in the way, float our CCs above our army, invulnerable style(timewarp+collosi+storm).
I guess that explains why so many terrans switch to protoss, you even get to all in if you want short games and you get to choose between several not just 11/11.
On August 20 2013 03:45 myminerals wrote: "It's a pity. When I was dominating in SC1, every time I played a game, it was exciting."
This part made me sad not because it sounded sad, but because I felt exactly the same.
I think the translation is not correct, it is something like: Starcraft 1 popularity at its peak, everytime I went out to play I felt happy. Now I cannot feel the same atmosphere anymore..
On August 20 2013 03:27 mau5mat wrote: Didn't want to make a new thread for this strange request, but I'd REALLY appreciate it if someone could shed some light on what Flash uses as his CC hotkey, he has rebound '0' to something.
His play, give me the urge. Makes me feel like buying SC2 and try it kekeke.
It has been a long time since I saw Flash on live game . Not sure when he will appear soon . . .
Well, GSL starts 27th August AFAIK, and he is in it. So we should see him play soon enough (but GSL has so many toss this season... and Flash's TvP is not hot (well, there are not many terrans with hot TvP :D).
Keke, last month able to see him play every week. Need to wait until 27th feels long. Hope he play alot of matches I can imagine Flash getting new breakthrough, and do well soon . BUt that is just imagination, cant wait for real thing hahahaha.
"I realized for the first time that there are so many kinds of rulers."
Yes flash, there are Autocrats, Monarchies, Theocracies, Military Juntas, Dictators, Emperors, Aristocrats, Democratically elected rulers, etc. But I'm sure you haven't heard of them since the entire universe is your domain or what ever.
On August 20 2013 05:39 Canucklehead wrote: Fully expect Flash to show up to an OGN LoL match one day as a champion and walk down the middle lane with a girl on each arm.
I don't know if I agree that Toss is the strongest, but I concur with the strategy he espouses. With recall, Toss can really hurt zergs especially with minimal risk...
On August 20 2013 08:42 dirtydurb82 wrote: I don't know if I agree that Toss is the strongest, but I concur with the strategy he espouses. With recall, Toss can really hurt zergs especially with minimal risk...
That's not exactly a bad thing though.
In WoL every time a toss player left his base it was basically an all in haha.
On August 20 2013 04:19 juvenal wrote: Man, I don't like and I don't watch (or maybe one induces the other) LoL, Dota etc., but still I'd very happily accept if Flash switched, he fucking deserves something better. The guy had mastered BW probably like no one else and he enjoyed his success by rights... only to discover blizzard wants to sell their new game and it doesn't mix very well with the biggest e-sport thing in history involving their other game, 10 years old. I wonder if the time has come for him to follow KT legends Nal_ra, Reach, Yellow and many others ex-bw pros into that other game.
Kind of agree... Really hate how they just pulled the rug out from under these guys. SC2 is the same to BW only in name. It's like taking Michael Jordan at his peak and saying sorry you can only play baseball now.
This is so depressing, and it matches my sentiment about the game at the moment...
Sort of just waiting and hoping for LOTV...the state of Terran is so depressing right now. As a Zerg I have never been happier to face Protoss and even a ZvZ is better than ZvT at the moment...
Whoever made the comment about the removal of the siege tank from the T composition killing off most of the strategy in the MU really struck home for me. Baiting stims, lol.
Also, isn't Protoss favored in PL because of the number of one-shot builds they can come up with? Only other MU that I could definitely see them favored in atm is PvT.
On August 20 2013 03:27 mau5mat wrote: Didn't want to make a new thread for this strange request, but I'd REALLY appreciate it if someone could shed some light on what Flash uses as his CC hotkey, he has rebound '0' to something.
On August 20 2013 03:27 mau5mat wrote: Didn't want to make a new thread for this strange request, but I'd REALLY appreciate it if someone could shed some light on what Flash uses as his CC hotkey, he has rebound '0' to something.
On August 20 2013 03:27 mau5mat wrote: Didn't want to make a new thread for this strange request, but I'd REALLY appreciate it if someone could shed some light on what Flash uses as his CC hotkey, he has rebound '0' to something.
On August 19 2013 13:47 insectoidform wrote: How can flash think he has the same skill in LoL as he does in sc2? In LoL there 100+ champions to pick from while in sc2 there are 3 races. The amount of strategies that are employed in that game will never be understood by someone that plays a 1v1.
What's hilarious is that you've created a false equivalency between champions and races. 99.99% of pro gamers can only play one race at a pro level, while in LoL many pro gamers can play 5 or more champions.
I have been toying with protoss since later stages of WoL for the very reason Flash speaks about terran not allowing for mindgames in most MUs and being totally straight forward. Too bad i actually suck at mindgames.
On August 20 2013 20:32 Godwrath wrote: I have been toying with protoss since later stages of WoL for the very reason Flash speaks about terran not allowing for mindgames in most MUs and being totally straight forward. Too bad i actually suck at mindgames.
Unless you are playing multiple games against the same person, you can't play mindgames to begin with. Doing a cheese/allin on the ladder is simply gambling, because you have no clue what style your opponent will be playing.
On August 20 2013 03:27 mau5mat wrote: Didn't want to make a new thread for this strange request, but I'd REALLY appreciate it if someone could shed some light on what Flash uses as his CC hotkey, he has rebound '0' to something.
On August 20 2013 20:32 Godwrath wrote: I have been toying with protoss since later stages of WoL for the very reason Flash speaks about terran not allowing for mindgames in most MUs and being totally straight forward. Too bad i actually suck at mindgames.
Unless you are playing multiple games against the same person, you can't play mindgames to begin with. Doing a cheese/allin on the ladder is simply gambling, because you have no clue what style your opponent will be playing.
I know, but i mean for those times you face the same person time and time over again, and i had always sucked at PvP.
On August 20 2013 20:32 Godwrath wrote: I have been toying with protoss since later stages of WoL for the very reason Flash speaks about terran not allowing for mindgames in most MUs and being totally straight forward. Too bad i actually suck at mindgames.
Unless you are playing multiple games against the same person, you can't play mindgames to begin with. Doing a cheese/allin on the ladder is simply gambling, because you have no clue what style your opponent will be playing.
I know, but i mean for those times you face the same person time and time over again, and i had always sucked at PvP.
oh yeah. I have never even tried to learn that matchup. Though in HotS now its really good, but in WoL I would just always leave it or proxy 2gate.
i love and always have loved pvp as mainly terran player. i love microing the fights from the first few gate units to lategame engagements. i usually like to play reactively and do what they do with a bit more econ (or counter what they do with more econ)...even in the days where pvp was 4 gate into 2 base 2 robo collo mass...lolol
but i did like orc vs orc in war3...so i guess something is wrong with me.
On August 20 2013 03:27 mau5mat wrote: Didn't want to make a new thread for this strange request, but I'd REALLY appreciate it if someone could shed some light on what Flash uses as his CC hotkey, he has rebound '0' to something.
well, i think the issue is the disturbed balance between being active and being defensive in sc2.
in bw, terran had to be aggressive, mostly with bio openers, in tvz. in the lategame though, zerg got the upper hand. in tvp, by contrast, terran had to start defensively, but had the more potent lategame army. in zvp, zerg had the initiative in the early- and midgame, but in the very lategame, toss had the more potent army compositions.
so in bw, every race had the initiative in one matchup and the stronger lategame army in the other nonmirror. this kept things fresh and interesting for both spectators and players.
in sc2, things are very different. T has to be aggressive in both nonmirrors or they will get crushed. zerg is more defensively oriented and wants to defend until they reach a huge eco and ride that eco advantage to victory in the lategame. toss is like the only race with a mix: defensively oriented against T, but has to deal damage to zergs before their eco gets out of hand, ie an attack has to be coming before the lategame.
exceptions to this pattern are roach/bling and gateway all ins. all ins from terrans are no exception, they are to be expected.
but dont get me wrong: this change of initiative/reactive play patterns across matchups from bw to sc2 is not the cause but the symptom of the issue with sc2. the army compositions and matchups are designed in a way that plays out like that. for example, the lack of a strong lategame direct-engagement army from terrans is what makes them require early damage to win games. this is compensated by the abundant strength of their earlygame units, which stay viable (or rather necessary) into the lategame. but due to this early game strength, blizzard cannot simply buff Ts lategame compositions, like for example mech, because the race as a whole would get too strong then. so to solve the issue, we would require a buff to mech, for example by more flat damage on siege tanks, combined with a simultaneous nerf to, for example, marines.
something like that is almost impossible to pull off in a game that is as developed as sc2, with an ongoing tournament scene and lots of money and careers on the line. simply put, sc2 is and has always been fundamentally flawed at its very core, namely the racial interaction/the racial dynamics. imho this all stems from very early WoL, where terran had so many early harass option that it was ridiculous. they wanted to make terran a fancy, dynamic race and in the process fucked up the whole game.
nowadays, the situation (at least to me) seems beyond recovery. the analogy with michael jordan being told he now can only play baseball is quite fitting. i have the impression that flash is by far not the only bw legend who doesnt truely enjoy sc2. bisu and jd seem the same. their problem is just that they gave up their youth and educational prospects to develop their bw skills, which were kinda devaluated by the switch to sc2. but since they have such a big name, sponsor contracts, salaries and so on, there is no course of action that is more profitable or sensible than going on with the game, even if they dont enjoy it (anymore).
the younger generation of bw pros, like innovation, ty and soulkey, seem to have coped much better with the switch. but this maybe also has to do with age: you can only be a toptier progamer for so long before the desire for a social life, a girlfriend or a career plan after progaming starts distracting.
edit: sorry that my post got kinda out of hand and offtopic at the end.
well, i think the issue is the disturbed balance between being active and being defensive in sc2.
in bw, terran had to be aggressive, mostly with bio openers, in tvz. in the lategame though, zerg got the upper hand. in tvp, by contrast, terran had to start defensively, but had the more potent lategame army. in zvp, zerg had the initiative in the early- and midgame, but in the very lategame, toss had the more potent army compositions.
so in bw, every race had the initiative in one matchup and the stronger lategame army in the other nonmirror. this kept things fresh and interesting for both spectators and players.
in sc2, things are very different. T has to be aggressive in both nonmirrors or they will get crushed. zerg is more defensively oriented and wants to defend until they reach a huge eco and ride that eco advantage to victory in the lategame. toss is like the only race with a mix: defensively oriented against T, but has to deal damage to zergs before their eco gets out of hand, ie an attack has to be coming before the lategame.
exceptions to this pattern are roach/bling and gateway all ins. all ins from terrans are no exception, they are to be expected.
but dont get me wrong: this change of initiative/reactive play patterns across matchups from bw to sc2 is not the cause but the symptom of the issue with sc2. the army compositions and matchups are designed in a way that plays out like that. for example, the lack of a strong lategame direct-engagement army from terrans is what makes them require early damage to win games. this is compensated by the abundant strength of their earlygame units, which stay viable (or rather necessary) into the lategame. but due to this early game strength, blizzard cannot simply buff Ts lategame compositions, like for example mech, because the race as a whole would get too strong then. so to solve the issue, we would require a buff to mech, for example by more flat damage on siege tanks, combined with a simultaneous nerf to, for example, marines.
something like that is almost impossible to pull off in a game that is as developed as sc2, with an ongoing tournament scene and lots of money and careers on the line. simply put, sc2 is and has always been fundamentally flawed at its very core, namely the racial interaction/the racial dynamics. imho this all stems from very early WoL, where terran had so many early harass option that it was ridiculous. they wanted to make terran a fancy, dynamic race and in the process fucked up the whole game.
nowadays, the situation (at least to me) seems beyond recovery. the analogy with michael jordan being told he now can only play baseball is quite fitting. i have the impression that flash is by far not the only bw legend who doesnt truely enjoy sc2. bisu and jd seem the same. their problem is just that they gave up their youth and educational prospects to develop their bw skills, which were kinda devaluated by the switch to sc2. but since they have such a big name, sponsor contracts, salaries and so on, there is no course of action that is more profitable or sensible than going on with the game, even if they dont enjoy it (anymore).
the younger generation of bw pros, like innovation, ty and soulkey, seem to have coped much better with the switch. but this maybe also has to do with age: you can only be a toptier progamer for so long before the desire for a social life, a girlfriend or a career plan after progaming starts distracting.
edit: sorry that my post got kinda out of hand and offtopic at the end.
I like your analysis for the differences between BW and SC2. Innovation, Soulkey and Flash are actually all the same generation however. Innovation is only 1 year younger than Flash, and Soulkey is 1 year older than Flash (just checked it, suprised me as well); so you can't justify their dominance with their young age.
well, i think the issue is the disturbed balance between being active and being defensive in sc2.
in bw, terran had to be aggressive, mostly with bio openers, in tvz. in the lategame though, zerg got the upper hand. in tvp, by contrast, terran had to start defensively, but had the more potent lategame army. in zvp, zerg had the initiative in the early- and midgame, but in the very lategame, toss had the more potent army compositions.
so in bw, every race had the initiative in one matchup and the stronger lategame army in the other nonmirror. this kept things fresh and interesting for both spectators and players.
in sc2, things are very different. T has to be aggressive in both nonmirrors or they will get crushed. zerg is more defensively oriented and wants to defend until they reach a huge eco and ride that eco advantage to victory in the lategame. toss is like the only race with a mix: defensively oriented against T, but has to deal damage to zergs before their eco gets out of hand, ie an attack has to be coming before the lategame.
exceptions to this pattern are roach/bling and gateway all ins. all ins from terrans are no exception, they are to be expected.
but dont get me wrong: this change of initiative/reactive play patterns across matchups from bw to sc2 is not the cause but the symptom of the issue with sc2. the army compositions and matchups are designed in a way that plays out like that. for example, the lack of a strong lategame direct-engagement army from terrans is what makes them require early damage to win games. this is compensated by the abundant strength of their earlygame units, which stay viable (or rather necessary) into the lategame. but due to this early game strength, blizzard cannot simply buff Ts lategame compositions, like for example mech, because the race as a whole would get too strong then. so to solve the issue, we would require a buff to mech, for example by more flat damage on siege tanks, combined with a simultaneous nerf to, for example, marines.
something like that is almost impossible to pull off in a game that is as developed as sc2, with an ongoing tournament scene and lots of money and careers on the line. simply put, sc2 is and has always been fundamentally flawed at its very core, namely the racial interaction/the racial dynamics. imho this all stems from very early WoL, where terran had so many early harass option that it was ridiculous. they wanted to make terran a fancy, dynamic race and in the process fucked up the whole game.
nowadays, the situation (at least to me) seems beyond recovery. the analogy with michael jordan being told he now can only play baseball is quite fitting. i have the impression that flash is by far not the only bw legend who doesnt truely enjoy sc2. bisu and jd seem the same. their problem is just that they gave up their youth and educational prospects to develop their bw skills, which were kinda devaluated by the switch to sc2. but since they have such a big name, sponsor contracts, salaries and so on, there is no course of action that is more profitable or sensible than going on with the game, even if they dont enjoy it (anymore).
the younger generation of bw pros, like innovation, ty and soulkey, seem to have coped much better with the switch. but this maybe also has to do with age: you can only be a toptier progamer for so long before the desire for a social life, a girlfriend or a career plan after progaming starts distracting.
edit: sorry that my post got kinda out of hand and offtopic at the end.
I like your analysis for the differences between BW and SC2. Innovation, Soulkey and Flash are actually all the same generation however. Innovation is only 1 year younger than Flash, and Soulkey is 1 year older than Flash (just checked it, suprised me as well); so you can't justify their dominance with their young age.
flash is an exception to the usual age trends because he had his breakthrough as a progamer at an unusually young age. this means that he has spent more time as a fulltime progamer with all the associated mental pressure and sacrificial lifestyle than most other pros of his age. therefore, i think he is closer to being burnt out or even retiring than his age would suggest.
in particular, i believe that having to carry his team on his own for all those years really took a toll on him. and as we could see in the proleague playoffs, KTRolster rather being KTFlash did not change between bw and sc2.
I lol'd at the girlfriend part. He's friggin Flash, getting a GF is no problem. What got me was him thinking about going to Protoss. If he felt that strongly about it, maybe he should have made the switch. idk.
So everyone talking about mech lol, what do you do to make mech good without breaking the game? Maybe a buff to PDD could help, slight buff to seige tank? thor?
On August 31 2013 04:44 Havik_ wrote: I lol'd at the girlfriend part. He's friggin Flash, getting a GF is no problem.
Getting a girlfriend is no problem, keeping one when you're training 12 or more hours a day is probably a completely different story. ;p
On August 31 2013 04:44 Havik_ wrote: What got me was him thinking about going to Protoss. If he felt that strongly about it, maybe he should have made the switch. idk.
A lot of pros feel that they would be cheating their fans if they switch races, so even though it might suit their style more they'd rather keep playing the same race. I also think this mentality is a hindrance but at the end of the day it's their choice to make. :s
Q: Terran is the strongest race in BW. But Protoss is stronger in SC2. Have you thought about changing race?
What kind of question is this? How does anyone even think this?
In terms of results, overall win rates, premier tournament participation ect... Terran has the most throughout SC2 history with Zerg trailing slightly at this point, and Protoss is a distant third. Doesn't anyone remember GomTvT?
Q: Terran is the strongest race in BW. But Protoss is stronger in SC2. Have you thought about changing race?
What kind of question is this? How does anyone even think this?
In terms of results, win rates, premier tournament participation ect... Terran has the most throughout SC2 history with Zerg trailing slightly at this point, and Protoss is a distant third. Doesn't anyone remember GomTvT?
This is Kespa. And since you bring up GomTvT, why not look at the fact that those times are long gone and now we have PvProLeague (which is Kespa's)? ^^
Q: Terran is the strongest race in BW. But Protoss is stronger in SC2. Have you thought about changing race?
What kind of question is this? How does anyone even think this?
In terms of results, win rates, premier tournament participation ect... Terran has the most throughout SC2 history with Zerg trailing slightly at this point, and Protoss is a distant third. Doesn't anyone remember GomTvT?
This is Kespa. And since you bring up GomTvT, why not look at the fact that those times are long gone and now we have PvProLeague (which is Kespa's)? ^^
Proleague is a different beast all together, but to ignore the history of WOL and says that Protoss has been stronger than Terran in SC2 is just ignorant and biased. But to look at the last OSL... it had 17 Protoss, 15 Terran and 18 Zerg. At the height of GomTvT in the late summer/fall of 2011, Terran had 32 of the players, half of the league in August. For Code S in October and November, Terran had 20 of 32 spots and 19 of 32 spots respectively.
As for Proleague, frankly, I don't think it measures skill well at all. I've even picked off several really good players (ROOTFitzy and Ver) in best of 1's in TL Opens. I don't think they indicate skill very well, and as a Protoss I can attest that you can plan a build, execute it well and catch someone off guard and win a single game. And part of this is due to the fact that Chronoboost can be used to speed up tech and units unlike the other macro mechanics, so it gives Protoss more wiggle room when creating builds. But winning a series is far more difficult for Protoss, and the results show this.
And honestly, a series is what shows skill. I think we all know this. So looking at the recent OSL and GSL is a better indicator and we certainly, don't see near the domination that Terran or even Zerg has achieved...
But yes, for the short history of Proleague SC2, where best of 1's dominate, Protoss has done well. If you changed the format of Proleague to all-kill, then suddenly the Protoss domination ceases. You can see this by looking at the winrates in Proleague. Overall, last season, Protoss had a 54% winrate vs Terran (this average includes the all-kill rounds, take them out and it goes up). But in the all-kill rounds, Protoss averaged 50% vs Terran.
So when Protoss can't plan a specific build for each opponent and snipe them in a best of 1, their win rate drops off fast.
Q: Terran is the strongest race in BW. But Protoss is stronger in SC2. Have you thought about changing race?
What kind of question is this? How does anyone even think this?
In terms of results, win rates, premier tournament participation ect... Terran has the most throughout SC2 history with Zerg trailing slightly at this point, and Protoss is a distant third. Doesn't anyone remember GomTvT?
This is Kespa. And since you bring up GomTvT, why not look at the fact that those times are long gone and now we have PvProLeague (which is Kespa's)? ^^
Proleague is a different beast all together, but to ignore the history of WOL and says that Protoss has been stronger than Terran in SC2 is just ignorant and biased.
Actually the interviewer said "Protoss is stronger in SC2". Not "historically Protoss has been the strongest in SC2". He probably means right now, not in October 2011, nor overall.
I'm afraid you've misunderstood.
And of course there's going to be some bias because it's Kespa, of course they're going to consider their own tournaments over the GSL and foreign ones.
Q: Terran is the strongest race in BW. But Protoss is stronger in SC2. Have you thought about changing race?
What kind of question is this? How does anyone even think this?
In terms of results, win rates, premier tournament participation ect... Terran has the most throughout SC2 history with Zerg trailing slightly at this point, and Protoss is a distant third. Doesn't anyone remember GomTvT?
This is Kespa. And since you bring up GomTvT, why not look at the fact that those times are long gone and now we have PvProLeague (which is Kespa's)? ^^
Proleague is a different beast all together, but to ignore the history of WOL and says that Protoss has been stronger than Terran in SC2 is just ignorant and biased.
Actually the interviewer said "Protoss is stronger in SC2". Not "historically Protoss has been the strongest in SC2". He probably means right now, not in October 2011, nor overall.
I'm afraid you've misunderstood.
And of course there's going to be some bias because it's Kespa, of course they're going to consider their own tournaments over the GSL and foreign ones.
I don't think I misunderstood, perhaps the translation is bad, but what he said is pretty clear.
Q: Terran is the strongest race in BW. But Protoss is stronger in SC2. Have you thought about changing race?
What kind of question is this? How does anyone even think this?
In terms of results, win rates, premier tournament participation ect... Terran has the most throughout SC2 history with Zerg trailing slightly at this point, and Protoss is a distant third. Doesn't anyone remember GomTvT?
This is Kespa. And since you bring up GomTvT, why not look at the fact that those times are long gone and now we have PvProLeague (which is Kespa's)? ^^
Proleague is a different beast all together, but to ignore the history of WOL and says that Protoss has been stronger than Terran in SC2 is just ignorant and biased.
Actually the interviewer said "Protoss is stronger in SC2". Not "historically Protoss has been the strongest in SC2". He probably means right now, not in October 2011, nor overall.
I'm afraid you've misunderstood.
And of course there's going to be some bias because it's Kespa, of course they're going to consider their own tournaments over the GSL and foreign ones.
I don't think I misunderstood, perhaps the translation is bad, but what he said is pretty clear.
I agree, the choice of verb tense used is pretty clear, and indicates the present. ^^
Q: Terran is the strongest race in BW. But Protoss is stronger in SC2. Have you thought about changing race?
What kind of question is this? How does anyone even think this?
In terms of results, overall win rates, premier tournament participation ect... Terran has the most throughout SC2 history with Zerg trailing slightly at this point, and Protoss is a distant third. Doesn't anyone remember GomTvT?
I just don't see a lot of green here:
It refers to PvProleague which is way more valid argument than GomTvT - which happen almost 3 years ago. Also WCS EU speaks a lot about how good protoss really is, not necessarily IMBA, but really good.
If esports EVER wants to be taken seriously, then go remove the questions for girlfriends. It's like "Man, you're earning money with playing - you can't have a girlfriend, can you? Ever tried?" - just stupid.
Every single time that question (or a similar one) pops up, wherever it is, be it Korea, AM or EU, MLG, WCS, NASL, Dreamhack, GSL, OSL, ..., I want to punch the interviewer in the face.
And yes, I do play SC2, and I do have a girlfriend . So it's not about any personal issues.
Q: Terran is the strongest race in BW. But Protoss is stronger in SC2. Have you thought about changing race?
What kind of question is this? How does anyone even think this?
In terms of results, win rates, premier tournament participation ect... Terran has the most throughout SC2 history with Zerg trailing slightly at this point, and Protoss is a distant third. Doesn't anyone remember GomTvT?
This is Kespa. And since you bring up GomTvT, why not look at the fact that those times are long gone and now we have PvProLeague (which is Kespa's)? ^^
Proleague is a different beast all together, but to ignore the history of WOL and says that Protoss has been stronger than Terran in SC2 is just ignorant and biased. But to look at the last OSL... it had 17 Protoss, 15 Terran and 18 Zerg. At the height of GomTvT in the late summer/fall of 2011, Terran had 32 of the players, half of the league in August. For Code S in October and November, Terran had 20 of 32 spots and 19 of 32 spots respectively.
As for Proleague, frankly, I don't think it measures skill well at all. I've even picked off several really good players (ROOTFitzy and Ver) in best of 1's in TL Opens. I don't think they indicate skill very well, and as a Protoss I can attest that you can plan a build, execute it well and catch someone off guard and win a single game. And part of this is due to the fact that Chronoboost can be used to speed up tech and units unlike the other macro mechanics, so it gives Protoss more wiggle room when creating builds. But winning a series is far more difficult for Protoss, and the results show this.
And honestly, a series is what shows skill. I think we all know this. So looking at the recent OSL and GSL is a better indicator and we certainly, don't see near the domination that Terran or even Zerg has achieved...
But yes, for the short history of Proleague SC2, where best of 1's dominate, Protoss has done well. If you changed the format of Proleague to all-kill, then suddenly the Protoss domination ceases. You can see this by looking at the winrates in Proleague. Overall, last season, Protoss had a 54% winrate vs Terran (this average includes the all-kill rounds, take them out and it goes up). But in the all-kill rounds, Protoss averaged 50% vs Terran.
So when Protoss can't plan a specific build for each opponent and snipe them in a best of 1, their win rate drops off fast.
I think all he implied by that was it seems strong atm and he just wanted Flash's thoughts. We know how chaotic the patches can be and you'll see people whining about the silly game non-stop where ever you go. Just look at Dear 4-0ing Supernova and all the bitching afterwards. *sigh* It happens all the time.
i knew that question would bring out all the angry protoss...hes dead on about mech, blizzard needs to make it viable. Not just for balance but to make the game more fun, interesting and more enjoyable to the viewer.
It's so ridiculous. Just yet ANOTHER LoL advertisement post/interview/guide in SC2 forums! WTF?
@ LoL people/TL.net LoL staff: Why can't you just let us SC2/BW/RTS fans alone? It's like an offense if you make an interview with the best SCBW progamer ever and an top SC2 player (Flash) and the half of the questions are about LoL, and how LoL price money is bigger than SC2's.
Wtf @ Tl.net? Wtf...
Long live Starcraft & RTS! I don't want any other game. People that change games only because the other game is more popular/has more prize money are sad.
On August 31 2013 06:53 Caladan wrote: It's so ridiculous. Just yet ANOTHER LoL advertisement post/interview/guide in SC2 forums! WTF?
@ LoL people/TL.net LoL staff: Why can't you just let us SC2/BW/RTS fans alone? It's like an offense if you make an interview with the best SCBW progamer ever and an top SC2 player (Flash) and the half of the questions are about LoL, and how LoL price money is bigger than SC2's.
Wtf @ Tl.net? Wtf...
Long live Starcraft & RTS! I don't want any other game. People that change games only because the other game is more popular/has more prize money are sad.
Probably because of this.
This translated interview is a shortened version from the DES's interview about Flash and Madlife (CJ's LoL player).
IDK what/who DES is but it looks like TL just did the translation here and nothing else.
On August 31 2013 06:53 Caladan wrote: It's so ridiculous. Just yet ANOTHER LoL advertisement post/interview/guide in SC2 forums! WTF?
@ LoL people/TL.net LoL staff: Why can't you just let us SC2/BW/RTS fans alone? It's like an offense if you make an interview with the best SCBW progamer ever and an top SC2 player (Flash) and the half of the questions are about LoL, and how LoL price money is bigger than SC2's.
Wtf @ Tl.net? Wtf...
Long live Starcraft & RTS! I don't want any other game. People that change games only because the other game is more popular/has more prize money are sad.
lol it's an interview with both Flash and CJ Frost's Madlife which is a LoL player. TL or rather the OP only translated it, not interviewed them.
It doesn't sounds like Flash enjoys the game very much anymore . Not to sounds overly negative but maybe its affecting his results. So the inevitable seems to be true, SC2 seems to be dying a slow death if the players dont enjoty the game and the prize money isnt as high as in Dota and LoL.
On August 31 2013 22:18 ShootingQuasar wrote: It doesn't sounds like Flash enjoys the game very much anymore . Not to sounds overly negative but maybe its affecting his results. So the inevitable seems to be true, SC2 seems to be dying a slow death if the players dont enjoty the game and the prize money isnt as high as in Dota and LoL.
Agreed. Also I still think Flash is the best player in terms of discipline and strong will. Amazing guy! Do we know what he wants to do after pro-gaming? E.g. what job. Was it IT or am I misled?
Edit: I think Flash will quit within 1 year and apply for university.
On August 31 2013 22:18 ShootingQuasar wrote: It doesn't sounds like Flash enjoys the game very much anymore . Not to sounds overly negative but maybe its affecting his results. So the inevitable seems to be true, SC2 seems to be dying a slow death if the players dont enjoty the game and the prize money isnt as high as in Dota and LoL.
Agreed. Also I still think Flash is the best player in terms of discipline and strong will. Amazing guy! Do we know what he wants to do after pro-gaming? E.g. what job. Was it IT or am I misled?
Edit: I think Flash will quit within 1 year and apply for university.
Flash will still have a high salary and he's still a title favorite. I think he will enjoy the game more once he actually wins something.
I saw a video where he said he wanted to be a prosecutor? Man the game will really die if people like Flash and Jaedong quit But yea its nice to see their perfectionist mentality, something that can be learnt from and applied anywhere in life really.
On August 31 2013 22:51 ShootingQuasar wrote: I saw a video where he said he wanted to be a prosecutor? Man the game will really die if people like Flash and Jaedong quit But yea its nice to see their perfectionist mentality, something that can be learnt from and applied anywhere in life really.
How/why game would die when Flash or/and Jaedong retire?
On August 31 2013 22:51 ShootingQuasar wrote: I saw a video where he said he wanted to be a prosecutor? Man the game will really die if people like Flash and Jaedong quit But yea its nice to see their perfectionist mentality, something that can be learnt from and applied anywhere in life really.
How/why game would die when Flash or/and Jaedong retire?
Leessangs = Star power. With no superstar to replace them = corporate losing interests in game. Game not played in PL and OSL being cancel, huge blow to the infrastructure. System down = unsustainable "career" path = tentatives in participating = scene diminishing = GG.
On August 31 2013 23:33 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: These bw fans are always so dramatic realistic
Fixed, us fans have been there, done that when our superstars cease to play the game.
On August 31 2013 06:53 Caladan wrote: It's so ridiculous. Just yet ANOTHER LoL advertisement post/interview/guide in SC2 forums! WTF?
@ LoL people/TL.net LoL staff: Why can't you just let us SC2/BW/RTS fans alone? It's like an offense if you make an interview with the best SCBW progamer ever and an top SC2 player (Flash) and the half of the questions are about LoL, and how LoL price money is bigger than SC2's.
Wtf @ Tl.net? Wtf...
Long live Starcraft & RTS! I don't want any other game. People that change games only because the other game is more popular/has more prize money are sad.
Then you would have to hate huge parts of KeSPA/SC2 players, too? I can't tell you how much I hate it when people put BW and SC2 into one pot as if it was the same thing and try to transfer BW's glory to SC2. It's just ridiculous the way you try to take some kind of moral highground when you don't even seem to be informed about many BW fan's view on the BW to SC2 transition. Everybody abandonded BW because they thought SC2 was the superior game, right?! Had nothing to do with money and popularity or where people thought the future would be, right?!
Sorry for being a bit rude but this is the stuff that really, really grinds my gears.
When I saw the rulers from my fans, I realized for the first time that there are so many kinds of rulers. Sometimes I receive 5-6 rulers everyday. And they are all different.
So much comes through with this short interview and a lot of it doesn't seem so good for SC2 Probably the reason flash doesn't sound so pumped is because he hasn't won anything big in a while especially because he was so dominant just before switching games But it's not just that the fact that the ultimate Terran would consider ditching his race because of its lack of depth in strategic decisions is worrying he is basically saying there is 1 way to play and that makes it a lot more shallow That's much more worrying for the long term But hey I'm sure some people disagree
Flash Interview after Today's GSL: "My heart hurts when I saw Jangbi retired. Actually I also lost interest in SC2 at one point.
A quick translation of Flash Interview after Today's GSL.
Q: You are worrying about WCS points?
Flash: This is the last chance for the WCS points. My priority now is to get more WCS points. I need to overcome the curse of RO16.
Q: Does Jaedong stimulate you?
Flash: Instead of stimulating, I think JD gave me great support. In the situation of lots of retirement, JD is fighting hard on his own. That's wonderful.
Q: How is your streaming?
Flash: I went to vocation for month, and then I played 4-5 days before streaming. My mood is much better after vocation and I can keep going now. Please forgot my performance. I am kinda unfamiliar with that. There won't be that kind of performance anymore.
Q: Some final thought?
Flash: When I was back from Thailand, I have cleaned up my mood. A few months ago, my mind was in a complicated situation. Jangbi and other skillful players' retirement is really a regretful thing. My heart hurts when I saw the news. Actually I also lost interest in SC2 at one point. But I have stabilized my mind now. To fulfill the promise of my fans, I will keep working hard.
Oh boy am I happy that he didn't retire aswell and now made up his mind. However, the thought of having Flash stream BW on Afreeca like Jangbi... (sorry couldn't help but fantasize about that )
On September 06 2013 06:32 purakushi wrote: It is expected when he is so used to playing BW, but it is so sad to see that Flash has to try so hard to be interested in this game.
It is only a matter of time. BW revival!
That's like the opposite of what he said in his interview.
Instead of turtling in the past glory, I think working hard to make SC2 more popular is a better thing to do. Accepting the reality and improving on what's lacking.
On September 06 2013 06:32 purakushi wrote: It is expected when he is so used to playing BW, but it is so sad to see that Flash has to try so hard to be interested in this game.
It is only a matter of time. BW revival!
That's like the opposite of what he said in his interview.
Instead of turtling in the past glory, I think working hard to make SC2 more popular is a better thing to do. Accepting the reality and improving on what's lacking.
You can't really read anything into that either way. I mean FlaSh has been around for a while, Kespa does PR training with their pros, of course he's gonna be very positive about SC2 (which is his job at the moment) regardless of what he truly feels. Also has to do with pleasing his fans and maybe dispelling some of this monolith of negativity that's been around lately.
So yeah, don't read too much into it. If he said anything close to the opposite, then there'd be some serious issues.
Besides, it's all up to interpretation anyway. You think he likes the game and wants to work hard. Maybe others would interpret the subtlety of "instead of turtling in the past glory" as an obvious nod to the fact that BW was much more glorious/greater etc... also the "accepting the reality and improving on what's lacking", I mean it can be interpreted as saying SC2 is not as good.
It's all about how you spin it, so it's not worth getting all caught up in imo
On September 06 2013 06:32 purakushi wrote: It is expected when he is so used to playing BW, but it is so sad to see that Flash has to try so hard to be interested in this game.
It is only a matter of time. BW revival!
That's like the opposite of what he said in his interview.
Instead of turtling in the past glory, I think working hard to make SC2 more popular is a better thing to do. Accepting the reality and improving on what's lacking.
Ditto what MasterOfPuppets said, especially the spoiler.
On September 06 2013 06:32 purakushi wrote: It is expected when he is so used to playing BW, but it is so sad to see that Flash has to try so hard to be interested in this game.
It is only a matter of time. BW revival!
That's like the opposite of what he said in his interview.
Instead of turtling in the past glory, I think working hard to make SC2 more popular is a better thing to do. Accepting the reality and improving on what's lacking.
You can't really read anything into that either way. I mean FlaSh has been around for a while, Kespa does PR training with their pros, of course he's gonna be very positive about SC2 (which is his job at the moment) regardless of what he truly feels. Also has to do with pleasing his fans and maybe dispelling some of this monolith of negativity that's been around lately.
So yeah, don't read too much into it. If he said anything close to the opposite, then there'd be some serious issues.
Besides, it's all up to interpretation anyway. You think he likes the game and wants to work hard. Maybe others would interpret the subtlety of "instead of turtling in the past glory" as an obvious nod to the fact that BW was much more glorious/greater etc... also the "accepting the reality and improving on what's lacking", I mean it can be interpreted as saying SC2 is not as good.
It's all about how you spin it, so it's not worth getting all caught up in imo
See this is what i really dislike. This constant doomsaying no matter what. Pro's say to be positive? Clearly he does not truly think so and is just being a PR machine but the second they say something negative its all over the place. Let's not even begin with this "reading between the lines" bullshit people here love to do.
On September 06 2013 06:32 purakushi wrote: It is expected when he is so used to playing BW, but it is so sad to see that Flash has to try so hard to be interested in this game.
It is only a matter of time. BW revival!
That's like the opposite of what he said in his interview.
Instead of turtling in the past glory, I think working hard to make SC2 more popular is a better thing to do. Accepting the reality and improving on what's lacking.
You can't really read anything into that either way. I mean FlaSh has been around for a while, Kespa does PR training with their pros, of course he's gonna be very positive about SC2 (which is his job at the moment) regardless of what he truly feels. Also has to do with pleasing his fans and maybe dispelling some of this monolith of negativity that's been around lately.
So yeah, don't read too much into it. If he said anything close to the opposite, then there'd be some serious issues.
Besides, it's all up to interpretation anyway. You think he likes the game and wants to work hard. Maybe others would interpret the subtlety of "instead of turtling in the past glory" as an obvious nod to the fact that BW was much more glorious/greater etc... also the "accepting the reality and improving on what's lacking", I mean it can be interpreted as saying SC2 is not as good.
It's all about how you spin it, so it's not worth getting all caught up in imo
See this is what i really dislike. This constant doomsaying no matter what. Pro's say to be positive? Clearly he does not truly think so and is just being a PR machine but the second they say something negative its all over the place. Let's not even begin with this "reading between the lines" bullshit people here love to do.
Wow way to miss the point even though I stated it like 3 times.
it's like asking a Go player to play tic tac toe, yea there's a lot of money and his career involved, but it's no longer a passion he can commit to on his own.
actually not tic tac toe, just rock scissor paper. the former is balanced LOL
On September 06 2013 06:32 purakushi wrote: It is expected when he is so used to playing BW, but it is so sad to see that Flash has to try so hard to be interested in this game.
It is only a matter of time. BW revival!
That's like the opposite of what he said in his interview.
Instead of turtling in the past glory, I think working hard to make SC2 more popular is a better thing to do. Accepting the reality and improving on what's lacking.
You can't really read anything into that either way. I mean FlaSh has been around for a while, Kespa does PR training with their pros, of course he's gonna be very positive about SC2 (which is his job at the moment) regardless of what he truly feels. Also has to do with pleasing his fans and maybe dispelling some of this monolith of negativity that's been around lately.
So yeah, don't read too much into it. If he said anything close to the opposite, then there'd be some serious issues.
Besides, it's all up to interpretation anyway. You think he likes the game and wants to work hard. Maybe others would interpret the subtlety of "instead of turtling in the past glory" as an obvious nod to the fact that BW was much more glorious/greater etc... also the "accepting the reality and improving on what's lacking", I mean it can be interpreted as saying SC2 is not as good.
It's all about how you spin it, so it's not worth getting all caught up in imo
See this is what i really dislike. This constant doomsaying no matter what. Pro's say to be positive? Clearly he does not truly think so and is just being a PR machine but the second they say something negative its all over the place. Let's not even begin with this "reading between the lines" bullshit people here love to do.
What? He only wrote one possible interpretation of what Flash said, and you can read it too.
On September 06 2013 08:36 oneofthem wrote: it's like asking a Go player to play tic tac toe, yea there's a lot of money and his career involved, but it's no longer a passion he can commit to on his own.
actually not tic tac toe, just rock scissor paper. the former is balanced LOL
Yeah man that fucking rock has too high of a winrate! Paper and scissors clearly need a buff
It often feels like all the things we complained about SC2 when it first came out like unlimited unit highlighting, auto-mining, smart cast.....
..have all sort of trivialized the greatness about a lot of pro players that switched over. I think they felt the excitement in BW because there was almost really no "speed cap" so to speak simply because there was always so much shit to be done once you were 3+ bases. Those sick drops people used to do like using HTs in shuttles.... remember seeing boxer a long ass time ago doing crazy shit with dropships? People were so amazed because it was nuts how good someone had to be to just move the units and do commands like that. Good defiler use TO THIS DAY is amazing to watch. It's such a shitty weak little unit that is so hard to use correctly and takes so much micro.... that's why people were so fucking amazed to see its use. But how amazed were people by the infestor?
Now whenever you see someone play, I don't think anyone sees the actions of a player and goes "OH MY GOD THAT WAS SO AMAZING HOW DID HE DO THAT SO FAST" because all the actions can be done by fairly low level players because of the command options now.
Amazing things were trivialized in SC2 So it's really just not as entertaining. The mystery of the current meta was all there really was, but now it seems like matchups are figured out. I also loved the randomness of units sometimes in BW. They'd like scatter all around when they moved instead of being 100% perfectly fluid movements. Whenever someone had to pull back from an attack they had to hit a ton of hotkeys and also highlight (especially if zerg) and pull all that shit back. In BW that's about 20 moves.. in SC2 it's 1 click and whole army avoids the battle
Oh well, I'll just praise the snipealot2 stream for keeping my viewing fun
..just wish they wouldn't listen to such girly pop music constantly but whatever that's the culture ;(
Just look at these fuckin guys in snipealot2, whenever they win they get out of their chair or they cheer or something crazy. The win really gets them pumped. In basically every SC2 stream what happens when a player wins? They don't give a shit.
On September 06 2013 05:39 larse wrote: Flash Interview after Today's GSL: "My heart hurts when I saw Jangbi retired. Actually I also lost interest in SC2 at one point.
A quick translation of Flash Interview after Today's GSL.
Q: You are worrying about WCS points?
Flash: This is the last chance for the WCS points. My priority now is to get more WCS points. I need to overcome the curse of RO16.
Q: Does Jaedong stimulate you?
Flash: Instead of stimulating, I think JD gave me great support. In the situation of lots of retirement, JD is fighting hard on his own. That's wonderful.
Q: How is your streaming?
Flash: I went to vocation for month, and then I played 4-5 days before streaming. My mood is much better after vocation and I can keep going now. Please forgot my performance. I am kinda unfamiliar with that. There won't be that kind of performance anymore.
Q: Some final thought?
Flash: When I was back from Thailand, I have cleaned up my mood. A few months ago, my mind was in a complicated situation. Jangbi and other skillful players' retirement is really a regretful thing. My heart hurts when I saw the news. Actually I also lost interest in SC2 at one point. But I have stabilized my mind now. To fulfill the promise of my fans, I will keep working hard.
On September 06 2013 06:32 purakushi wrote: It is expected when he is so used to playing BW, but it is so sad to see that Flash has to try so hard to be interested in this game.
It is only a matter of time. BW revival!
That's like the opposite of what he said in his interview.
Instead of turtling in the past glory, I think working hard to make SC2 more popular is a better thing to do. Accepting the reality and improving on what's lacking.
You can't really read anything into that either way. I mean FlaSh has been around for a while, Kespa does PR training with their pros, of course he's gonna be very positive about SC2 (which is his job at the moment) regardless of what he truly feels. Also has to do with pleasing his fans and maybe dispelling some of this monolith of negativity that's been around lately.
So yeah, don't read too much into it. If he said anything close to the opposite, then there'd be some serious issues.
Besides, it's all up to interpretation anyway. You think he likes the game and wants to work hard. Maybe others would interpret the subtlety of "instead of turtling in the past glory" as an obvious nod to the fact that BW was much more glorious/greater etc... also the "accepting the reality and improving on what's lacking", I mean it can be interpreted as saying SC2 is not as good.
It's all about how you spin it, so it's not worth getting all caught up in imo
On September 06 2013 08:36 oneofthem wrote: it's like asking a Go player to play tic tac toe, yea there's a lot of money and his career involved, but it's no longer a passion he can commit to on his own.
actually not tic tac toe, just rock scissor paper. the former is balanced LOL
Standard tictactoe isn't balanced.
It is possible for the first player to never lose.
On September 06 2013 15:29 Gruntt wrote: It often feels like all the things we complained about SC2 when it first came out like unlimited unit highlighting, auto-mining, smart cast.....
..have all sort of trivialized the greatness about a lot of pro players that switched over. I think they felt the excitement in BW because there was almost really no "speed cap" so to speak simply because there was always so much shit to be done once you were 3+ bases. Those sick drops people used to do like using HTs in shuttles.... remember seeing boxer a long ass time ago doing crazy shit with dropships? People were so amazed because it was nuts how good someone had to be to just move the units and do commands like that. Good defiler use TO THIS DAY is amazing to watch. It's such a shitty weak little unit that is so hard to use correctly and takes so much micro.... that's why people were so fucking amazed to see its use. But how amazed were people by the infestor?
Now whenever you see someone play, I don't think anyone sees the actions of a player and goes "OH MY GOD THAT WAS SO AMAZING HOW DID HE DO THAT SO FAST" because all the actions can be done by fairly low level players because of the command options now.
Amazing things were trivialized in SC2 So it's really just not as entertaining. The mystery of the current meta was all there really was, but now it seems like matchups are figured out. I also loved the randomness of units sometimes in BW. They'd like scatter all around when they moved instead of being 100% perfectly fluid movements. Whenever someone had to pull back from an attack they had to hit a ton of hotkeys and also highlight (especially if zerg) and pull all that shit back. In BW that's about 20 moves.. in SC2 it's 1 click and whole army avoids the battle
Oh well, I'll just praise the snipealot2 stream for keeping my viewing fun
..just wish they wouldn't listen to such girly pop music constantly but whatever that's the culture ;(
Just look at these fuckin guys in snipealot2, whenever they win they get out of their chair or they cheer or something crazy. The win really gets them pumped. In basically every SC2 stream what happens when a player wins? They don't give a shit.
Great comment going unnoticed. Thanks, sums up what I've been thinking for a long time : SC2 is too easy to be truely interesting.
On September 06 2013 15:29 Gruntt wrote: It often feels like all the things we complained about SC2 when it first came out like unlimited unit highlighting, auto-mining, smart cast.....
..have all sort of trivialized the greatness about a lot of pro players that switched over. I think they felt the excitement in BW because there was almost really no "speed cap" so to speak simply because there was always so much shit to be done once you were 3+ bases. Those sick drops people used to do like using HTs in shuttles.... remember seeing boxer a long ass time ago doing crazy shit with dropships? People were so amazed because it was nuts how good someone had to be to just move the units and do commands like that. Good defiler use TO THIS DAY is amazing to watch. It's such a shitty weak little unit that is so hard to use correctly and takes so much micro.... that's why people were so fucking amazed to see its use. But how amazed were people by the infestor?
Now whenever you see someone play, I don't think anyone sees the actions of a player and goes "OH MY GOD THAT WAS SO AMAZING HOW DID HE DO THAT SO FAST" because all the actions can be done by fairly low level players because of the command options now.
Amazing things were trivialized in SC2 So it's really just not as entertaining. The mystery of the current meta was all there really was, but now it seems like matchups are figured out. I also loved the randomness of units sometimes in BW. They'd like scatter all around when they moved instead of being 100% perfectly fluid movements. Whenever someone had to pull back from an attack they had to hit a ton of hotkeys and also highlight (especially if zerg) and pull all that shit back. In BW that's about 20 moves.. in SC2 it's 1 click and whole army avoids the battle
Oh well, I'll just praise the snipealot2 stream for keeping my viewing fun
..just wish they wouldn't listen to such girly pop music constantly but whatever that's the culture ;(
Just look at these fuckin guys in snipealot2, whenever they win they get out of their chair or they cheer or something crazy. The win really gets them pumped. In basically every SC2 stream what happens when a player wins? They don't give a shit.
so you get excited because an army retreat successfully because he just pressed 20 keys instead of 1? lol
On September 06 2013 15:29 Gruntt wrote: It often feels like all the things we complained about SC2 when it first came out like unlimited unit highlighting, auto-mining, smart cast.....
..have all sort of trivialized the greatness about a lot of pro players that switched over. I think they felt the excitement in BW because there was almost really no "speed cap" so to speak simply because there was always so much shit to be done once you were 3+ bases. Those sick drops people used to do like using HTs in shuttles.... remember seeing boxer a long ass time ago doing crazy shit with dropships? People were so amazed because it was nuts how good someone had to be to just move the units and do commands like that. Good defiler use TO THIS DAY is amazing to watch. It's such a shitty weak little unit that is so hard to use correctly and takes so much micro.... that's why people were so fucking amazed to see its use. But how amazed were people by the infestor?
Now whenever you see someone play, I don't think anyone sees the actions of a player and goes "OH MY GOD THAT WAS SO AMAZING HOW DID HE DO THAT SO FAST" because all the actions can be done by fairly low level players because of the command options now.
Amazing things were trivialized in SC2 So it's really just not as entertaining. The mystery of the current meta was all there really was, but now it seems like matchups are figured out. I also loved the randomness of units sometimes in BW. They'd like scatter all around when they moved instead of being 100% perfectly fluid movements. Whenever someone had to pull back from an attack they had to hit a ton of hotkeys and also highlight (especially if zerg) and pull all that shit back. In BW that's about 20 moves.. in SC2 it's 1 click and whole army avoids the battle
Oh well, I'll just praise the snipealot2 stream for keeping my viewing fun
..just wish they wouldn't listen to such girly pop music constantly but whatever that's the culture ;(
Just look at these fuckin guys in snipealot2, whenever they win they get out of their chair or they cheer or something crazy. The win really gets them pumped. In basically every SC2 stream what happens when a player wins? They don't give a shit.
so you get excited because an army retreat successfully because he just pressed 20 keys instead of 1? lol
Why not though? Its bloody hard to actually dance your 200/200 force without slipping many units.
In BW most things the pros did - holy how did he do that???? e.g. storms everywhere. In SC2 most things the pros do = I could probably do that.. most of the time given some practice.
Just watching a macro beast in BW was so awe inspiring because you know that you cannot group your buildings and press A or E to produce the units.. and yet some of the pros were 24/7 producing units non stop. Same goes for orchestrating an attack with 4+ control groups including spell casters/micro control. It was simply unreal.
Ive mentioned this before but easing the game does make the game better for casuals who ladder (not those who play custom games) in return for lowering the skill gap since one can do so much with such limitation (spectators will take the hit here). Tbh, if some of the ingame controls were reversed back e.g. unit control group number back to 12, perhaps no smart cast, the leagues would probably really differentiated among each other and the pros could really flex their muscle here.
On September 06 2013 15:29 Gruntt wrote: It often feels like all the things we complained about SC2 when it first came out like unlimited unit highlighting, auto-mining, smart cast.....
..have all sort of trivialized the greatness about a lot of pro players that switched over. I think they felt the excitement in BW because there was almost really no "speed cap" so to speak simply because there was always so much shit to be done once you were 3+ bases. Those sick drops people used to do like using HTs in shuttles.... remember seeing boxer a long ass time ago doing crazy shit with dropships? People were so amazed because it was nuts how good someone had to be to just move the units and do commands like that. Good defiler use TO THIS DAY is amazing to watch. It's such a shitty weak little unit that is so hard to use correctly and takes so much micro.... that's why people were so fucking amazed to see its use. But how amazed were people by the infestor?
Now whenever you see someone play, I don't think anyone sees the actions of a player and goes "OH MY GOD THAT WAS SO AMAZING HOW DID HE DO THAT SO FAST" because all the actions can be done by fairly low level players because of the command options now.
Amazing things were trivialized in SC2 So it's really just not as entertaining. The mystery of the current meta was all there really was, but now it seems like matchups are figured out. I also loved the randomness of units sometimes in BW. They'd like scatter all around when they moved instead of being 100% perfectly fluid movements. Whenever someone had to pull back from an attack they had to hit a ton of hotkeys and also highlight (especially if zerg) and pull all that shit back. In BW that's about 20 moves.. in SC2 it's 1 click and whole army avoids the battle
Oh well, I'll just praise the snipealot2 stream for keeping my viewing fun
..just wish they wouldn't listen to such girly pop music constantly but whatever that's the culture ;(
Just look at these fuckin guys in snipealot2, whenever they win they get out of their chair or they cheer or something crazy. The win really gets them pumped. In basically every SC2 stream what happens when a player wins? They don't give a shit.
so you get excited because an army retreat successfully because he just pressed 20 keys instead of 1? lol
ur a r*tard, he obviously meant sc1 games are more adrenaline rush for the players than sc2..
On September 06 2013 15:29 Gruntt wrote: It often feels like all the things we complained about SC2 when it first came out like unlimited unit highlighting, auto-mining, smart cast.....
..have all sort of trivialized the greatness about a lot of pro players that switched over. I think they felt the excitement in BW because there was almost really no "speed cap" so to speak simply because there was always so much shit to be done once you were 3+ bases. Those sick drops people used to do like using HTs in shuttles.... remember seeing boxer a long ass time ago doing crazy shit with dropships? People were so amazed because it was nuts how good someone had to be to just move the units and do commands like that. Good defiler use TO THIS DAY is amazing to watch. It's such a shitty weak little unit that is so hard to use correctly and takes so much micro.... that's why people were so fucking amazed to see its use. But how amazed were people by the infestor?
Now whenever you see someone play, I don't think anyone sees the actions of a player and goes "OH MY GOD THAT WAS SO AMAZING HOW DID HE DO THAT SO FAST" because all the actions can be done by fairly low level players because of the command options now.
Amazing things were trivialized in SC2 So it's really just not as entertaining. The mystery of the current meta was all there really was, but now it seems like matchups are figured out. I also loved the randomness of units sometimes in BW. They'd like scatter all around when they moved instead of being 100% perfectly fluid movements. Whenever someone had to pull back from an attack they had to hit a ton of hotkeys and also highlight (especially if zerg) and pull all that shit back. In BW that's about 20 moves.. in SC2 it's 1 click and whole army avoids the battle
Oh well, I'll just praise the snipealot2 stream for keeping my viewing fun
..just wish they wouldn't listen to such girly pop music constantly but whatever that's the culture ;(
Just look at these fuckin guys in snipealot2, whenever they win they get out of their chair or they cheer or something crazy. The win really gets them pumped. In basically every SC2 stream what happens when a player wins? They don't give a shit.
so you get excited because an army retreat successfully because he just pressed 20 keys instead of 1? lol
Why not though? Its bloody hard to actually dance your 200/200 force without slipping many units.
In BW most things the pros did - holy how did he do that???? e.g. storms everywhere. In SC2 most things the pros do = I could probably do that.. most of the time given some practice.
Just watching a macro beast in BW was so awe inspiring because you know that you cannot group your buildings and press A or E to produce the units.. and yet some of the pros were 24/7 producing units non stop. Same goes for orchestrating an attack with 4+ control groups including spell casters/micro control. It was simply unreal.
Ive mentioned this before but easing the game does make the game better for casuals who ladder (not those who play custom games) in return for lowering the skill gap since one can do so much with such limitation (spectators will take the hit here). Tbh, if some of the ingame controls were reversed back e.g. unit control group number back to 12, perhaps no smart cast, the leagues would probably really differentiated among each other and the pros could really flex their muscle here.
because should a retreat be a part of WOW HOW DID HE DO THAT moment? If BW required 3000 clicks to even move one pixel, are you going to be excited because he moved five pixels? It should be the moves that the player is achieving, not an ordinary move that impresses you. For example siege tank: Sure retreating is awesome, for bw it might be awesome to watch the player just retreat with the tanks. but in SC2 a better player can differentiate himself by leap frog siege much better than an ordinary player Landing a storm is still super interesting because you have to flank or even do warp prism drop or out micro the T ghost to land them.
On September 06 2013 15:29 Gruntt wrote: It often feels like all the things we complained about SC2 when it first came out like unlimited unit highlighting, auto-mining, smart cast.....
..have all sort of trivialized the greatness about a lot of pro players that switched over. I think they felt the excitement in BW because there was almost really no "speed cap" so to speak simply because there was always so much shit to be done once you were 3+ bases. Those sick drops people used to do like using HTs in shuttles.... remember seeing boxer a long ass time ago doing crazy shit with dropships? People were so amazed because it was nuts how good someone had to be to just move the units and do commands like that. Good defiler use TO THIS DAY is amazing to watch. It's such a shitty weak little unit that is so hard to use correctly and takes so much micro.... that's why people were so fucking amazed to see its use. But how amazed were people by the infestor?
Now whenever you see someone play, I don't think anyone sees the actions of a player and goes "OH MY GOD THAT WAS SO AMAZING HOW DID HE DO THAT SO FAST" because all the actions can be done by fairly low level players because of the command options now.
Amazing things were trivialized in SC2 So it's really just not as entertaining. The mystery of the current meta was all there really was, but now it seems like matchups are figured out. I also loved the randomness of units sometimes in BW. They'd like scatter all around when they moved instead of being 100% perfectly fluid movements. Whenever someone had to pull back from an attack they had to hit a ton of hotkeys and also highlight (especially if zerg) and pull all that shit back. In BW that's about 20 moves.. in SC2 it's 1 click and whole army avoids the battle
Oh well, I'll just praise the snipealot2 stream for keeping my viewing fun
..just wish they wouldn't listen to such girly pop music constantly but whatever that's the culture ;(
Just look at these fuckin guys in snipealot2, whenever they win they get out of their chair or they cheer or something crazy. The win really gets them pumped. In basically every SC2 stream what happens when a player wins? They don't give a shit.
so you get excited because an army retreat successfully because he just pressed 20 keys instead of 1? lol
ur a r*tard, he obviously meant sc1 games are more adrenaline rush for the players than sc2..
Lol no, also for the viewer, because you've got many of those "mind=blown" moments, when they magically make something happen that you can't even imagine ever doing yourself.
I just wished more things happened in SC2, because it is kind of illogical that less things happen during engagements, despite them being easier.
It has to do with automatization of certain behaviors, like the moment you break the first line of your opponents in TvT and you get superior position, the game most of the time ends there.
Innovation vs MMA game 2, Artosis said "At this level even when you are ahead but you make a mistake, you lose. No its not even that your opponent is back in the game, you lose" (paraphrasing)
I think that shows the difference between BW and SC2, the unlinearity of BW unit/macro/micro makes that most of the "you are back in the game" instead of "you win".
In the memory of recent retiree.
Before the big push JangBi was "dead", however the most epic storm turnover in history of BW, evened out the field, JB did not win outright, he won the game later, because he had +3 mining bases and succesful economy storm drop.
Lalush was saying he is preparing some big article summarizing the differences in eco etc. between games. So why that happens probably will be there.
On September 06 2013 15:29 Gruntt wrote: It often feels like all the things we complained about SC2 when it first came out like unlimited unit highlighting, auto-mining, smart cast.....
..have all sort of trivialized the greatness about a lot of pro players that switched over. I think they felt the excitement in BW because there was almost really no "speed cap" so to speak simply because there was always so much shit to be done once you were 3+ bases. Those sick drops people used to do like using HTs in shuttles.... remember seeing boxer a long ass time ago doing crazy shit with dropships? People were so amazed because it was nuts how good someone had to be to just move the units and do commands like that. Good defiler use TO THIS DAY is amazing to watch. It's such a shitty weak little unit that is so hard to use correctly and takes so much micro.... that's why people were so fucking amazed to see its use. But how amazed were people by the infestor?
Now whenever you see someone play, I don't think anyone sees the actions of a player and goes "OH MY GOD THAT WAS SO AMAZING HOW DID HE DO THAT SO FAST" because all the actions can be done by fairly low level players because of the command options now.
Amazing things were trivialized in SC2 So it's really just not as entertaining. The mystery of the current meta was all there really was, but now it seems like matchups are figured out. I also loved the randomness of units sometimes in BW. They'd like scatter all around when they moved instead of being 100% perfectly fluid movements. Whenever someone had to pull back from an attack they had to hit a ton of hotkeys and also highlight (especially if zerg) and pull all that shit back. In BW that's about 20 moves.. in SC2 it's 1 click and whole army avoids the battle
Oh well, I'll just praise the snipealot2 stream for keeping my viewing fun
..just wish they wouldn't listen to such girly pop music constantly but whatever that's the culture ;(
Just look at these fuckin guys in snipealot2, whenever they win they get out of their chair or they cheer or something crazy. The win really gets them pumped. In basically every SC2 stream what happens when a player wins? They don't give a shit.
so you get excited because an army retreat successfully because he just pressed 20 keys instead of 1? lol
Why not though? Its bloody hard to actually dance your 200/200 force without slipping many units.
In BW most things the pros did - holy how did he do that???? e.g. storms everywhere. In SC2 most things the pros do = I could probably do that.. most of the time given some practice.
Just watching a macro beast in BW was so awe inspiring because you know that you cannot group your buildings and press A or E to produce the units.. and yet some of the pros were 24/7 producing units non stop. Same goes for orchestrating an attack with 4+ control groups including spell casters/micro control. It was simply unreal.
Ive mentioned this before but easing the game does make the game better for casuals who ladder (not those who play custom games) in return for lowering the skill gap since one can do so much with such limitation (spectators will take the hit here). Tbh, if some of the ingame controls were reversed back e.g. unit control group number back to 12, perhaps no smart cast, the leagues would probably really differentiated among each other and the pros could really flex their muscle here.
because should a retreat be a part of WOW HOW DID HE DO THAT moment? If BW required 3000 clicks to even move one pixel, are you going to be excited because he moved five pixels? It should be the moves that the player is achieving, not an ordinary move that impresses you. For example siege tank: Sure retreating is awesome, for bw it might be awesome to watch the player just retreat with the tanks. but in SC2 a better player can differentiate himself by leap frog siege much better than an ordinary player Landing a storm is still super interesting because you have to flank or even do warp prism drop or out micro the T ghost to land them.
The highest factor that differentiates pros in SC2 is decision making. Sure mechanics aren't perfected, but mostly everyone is equal on those. There are a couple of outliers like Bomber's macro used to be or more recently Innovation but those aren't enough of a factor to make a big difference in player skill just because of how SC2 works.
I do not know why you bring up leap frogging/storms when they are much more impressive in BW all because of how tough is to control and manage units.
I will give you that the dynamic between ghost HT/warprism is interesting.
On September 06 2013 15:29 Gruntt wrote: It often feels like all the things we complained about SC2 when it first came out like unlimited unit highlighting, auto-mining, smart cast.....
..have all sort of trivialized the greatness about a lot of pro players that switched over. I think they felt the excitement in BW because there was almost really no "speed cap" so to speak simply because there was always so much shit to be done once you were 3+ bases. Those sick drops people used to do like using HTs in shuttles.... remember seeing boxer a long ass time ago doing crazy shit with dropships? People were so amazed because it was nuts how good someone had to be to just move the units and do commands like that. Good defiler use TO THIS DAY is amazing to watch. It's such a shitty weak little unit that is so hard to use correctly and takes so much micro.... that's why people were so fucking amazed to see its use. But how amazed were people by the infestor?
Now whenever you see someone play, I don't think anyone sees the actions of a player and goes "OH MY GOD THAT WAS SO AMAZING HOW DID HE DO THAT SO FAST" because all the actions can be done by fairly low level players because of the command options now.
Amazing things were trivialized in SC2 So it's really just not as entertaining. The mystery of the current meta was all there really was, but now it seems like matchups are figured out. I also loved the randomness of units sometimes in BW. They'd like scatter all around when they moved instead of being 100% perfectly fluid movements. Whenever someone had to pull back from an attack they had to hit a ton of hotkeys and also highlight (especially if zerg) and pull all that shit back. In BW that's about 20 moves.. in SC2 it's 1 click and whole army avoids the battle
Oh well, I'll just praise the snipealot2 stream for keeping my viewing fun
..just wish they wouldn't listen to such girly pop music constantly but whatever that's the culture ;(
Just look at these fuckin guys in snipealot2, whenever they win they get out of their chair or they cheer or something crazy. The win really gets them pumped. In basically every SC2 stream what happens when a player wins? They don't give a shit.
so you get excited because an army retreat successfully because he just pressed 20 keys instead of 1? lol
Why not though? Its bloody hard to actually dance your 200/200 force without slipping many units.
In BW most things the pros did - holy how did he do that???? e.g. storms everywhere. In SC2 most things the pros do = I could probably do that.. most of the time given some practice.
Just watching a macro beast in BW was so awe inspiring because you know that you cannot group your buildings and press A or E to produce the units.. and yet some of the pros were 24/7 producing units non stop. Same goes for orchestrating an attack with 4+ control groups including spell casters/micro control. It was simply unreal.
Ive mentioned this before but easing the game does make the game better for casuals who ladder (not those who play custom games) in return for lowering the skill gap since one can do so much with such limitation (spectators will take the hit here). Tbh, if some of the ingame controls were reversed back e.g. unit control group number back to 12, perhaps no smart cast, the leagues would probably really differentiated among each other and the pros could really flex their muscle here.
because should a retreat be a part of WOW HOW DID HE DO THAT moment? If BW required 3000 clicks to even move one pixel, are you going to be excited because he moved five pixels? It should be the moves that the player is achieving, not an ordinary move that impresses you. For example siege tank: Sure retreating is awesome, for bw it might be awesome to watch the player just retreat with the tanks. but in SC2 a better player can differentiate himself by leap frog siege much better than an ordinary player Landing a storm is still super interesting because you have to flank or even do warp prism drop or out micro the T ghost to land them.
One's more difficult, the other is less.
More difficulty to pull off = more respect given = more applaud from the crowd.
Retreat with tanks while simultaneously hold positioning to land on a few extra shots to other units = awesome to watch because of the amount of focus requires.
Overall speaking, BW pans out better than SC2 because of the newly introduced unit clumping, the fact that units can't hold any substantial space in SC2, and dearth of high ground advantage so you'll end up losing more map presence. That being said in BW, if you lose a battle, you'll still manage a huge portion of ground control, you cannot say that for SC2. In SC2, the splash dmg are less significant so people aren't afraid to engage and while knowing this, most people won't even bother setting up stronghold as they aren't as efficacious as to take up the offensive.
On September 06 2013 15:29 Gruntt wrote: It often feels like all the things we complained about SC2 when it first came out like unlimited unit highlighting, auto-mining, smart cast.....
..have all sort of trivialized the greatness about a lot of pro players that switched over. I think they felt the excitement in BW because there was almost really no "speed cap" so to speak simply because there was always so much shit to be done once you were 3+ bases. Those sick drops people used to do like using HTs in shuttles.... remember seeing boxer a long ass time ago doing crazy shit with dropships? People were so amazed because it was nuts how good someone had to be to just move the units and do commands like that. Good defiler use TO THIS DAY is amazing to watch. It's such a shitty weak little unit that is so hard to use correctly and takes so much micro.... that's why people were so fucking amazed to see its use. But how amazed were people by the infestor?
Now whenever you see someone play, I don't think anyone sees the actions of a player and goes "OH MY GOD THAT WAS SO AMAZING HOW DID HE DO THAT SO FAST" because all the actions can be done by fairly low level players because of the command options now.
Amazing things were trivialized in SC2 So it's really just not as entertaining. The mystery of the current meta was all there really was, but now it seems like matchups are figured out. I also loved the randomness of units sometimes in BW. They'd like scatter all around when they moved instead of being 100% perfectly fluid movements. Whenever someone had to pull back from an attack they had to hit a ton of hotkeys and also highlight (especially if zerg) and pull all that shit back. In BW that's about 20 moves.. in SC2 it's 1 click and whole army avoids the battle
Oh well, I'll just praise the snipealot2 stream for keeping my viewing fun
..just wish they wouldn't listen to such girly pop music constantly but whatever that's the culture ;(
Just look at these fuckin guys in snipealot2, whenever they win they get out of their chair or they cheer or something crazy. The win really gets them pumped. In basically every SC2 stream what happens when a player wins? They don't give a shit.
so you get excited because an army retreat successfully because he just pressed 20 keys instead of 1? lol
Why not though? Its bloody hard to actually dance your 200/200 force without slipping many units.
In BW most things the pros did - holy how did he do that???? e.g. storms everywhere. In SC2 most things the pros do = I could probably do that.. most of the time given some practice.
Just watching a macro beast in BW was so awe inspiring because you know that you cannot group your buildings and press A or E to produce the units.. and yet some of the pros were 24/7 producing units non stop. Same goes for orchestrating an attack with 4+ control groups including spell casters/micro control. It was simply unreal.
Ive mentioned this before but easing the game does make the game better for casuals who ladder (not those who play custom games) in return for lowering the skill gap since one can do so much with such limitation (spectators will take the hit here). Tbh, if some of the ingame controls were reversed back e.g. unit control group number back to 12, perhaps no smart cast, the leagues would probably really differentiated among each other and the pros could really flex their muscle here.
because should a retreat be a part of WOW HOW DID HE DO THAT moment? If BW required 3000 clicks to even move one pixel, are you going to be excited because he moved five pixels? It should be the moves that the player is achieving, not an ordinary move that impresses you. For example siege tank: Sure retreating is awesome, for bw it might be awesome to watch the player just retreat with the tanks. but in SC2 a better player can differentiate himself by leap frog siege much better than an ordinary player Landing a storm is still super interesting because you have to flank or even do warp prism drop or out micro the T ghost to land them.
One's more difficult, the other is less.
More difficulty to pull off = more respect given = more applaud from the crowd.
Retreat with tanks while simultaneously hold positioning to land on a few extra shots to other units = awesome to watch because of the amount of focus requires.
Overall speaking, BW pans out better than SC2 because of the newly introduced unit clumping, the fact that units can't hold any substantial space in SC2, and dearth of high ground advantage so you'll end up losing more map presence. That being said in BW, if you lose a battle, you'll still manage a huge portion of ground control, you cannot say that for SC2. In SC2, the splash dmg are less significant so people aren't afraid to engage and while knowing this, most people won't even bother setting up stronghold as they aren't as efficacious as to take up the offensive.
honestly it all comes down on that question I asked early: would you still be interested in BW if it required 300 apm to do a simple movement and would you be shocked to see a pro moving his harvesters and able to attack? And maybe a Pro with 1000 APM was able to do stutterstep micro and that would be all there is to the game. just because it is more difficult doesn't mean it is more interesting for the speculator, especially for the viewers who have little experience of it. I would give the guy more respect but certainly it just feels like the game isn't done right to me.
I was watching a tournament in HK, hardly anyone knows what is going on but at least some would say wow that is some nice aggression from 2 sides or wow that's a lot of units. But even if sc2 was only played with mouse only, it wouldn't make the crowd go louder because unless the people know how hard it is, they just won't be able to appreciate the moves more.
I would take it a bit off topic to compare two MOBA games that I play. A lot of people say League of Legend gameplay is easier than dota because it doesn't have the turning rate, creep denying, unit blocking etc. But the game is spot on with the core mechanics: knowing where your champion stands, when to use what on who, when to get a bit more aggressive, when to back off, what items to get in what order. I am hearing a lot more cheer for LoL engagements than Dota2 just because it is simple and clear for the crowd to get what's going on and yet the player can stand out from the bad ones by all those things LoL had it right. Those mechanical challenging things, especially blocking isn't all that impressive to look at other than a few games where it becomes significant such as blocking to save/ assist a kill.
I might get hated a lot for saying this: BW is an awesome game but it doesn't suit well to the current gamer base. If BW is released today, it won't even get close to where SC2 is right now, being quite successful internationally, even when facing off against League. The amount of time needed to get to anywhere as normal player is way too high. Players will be turned off by the controls and mechanics Hell, I know A TONNES of people in HK thinks SC2 is fricking hard already, even though they were quite into WC3 The only thing that SC2 is lacking is more interesting unit interaction and more units like marines which can really differentiate good and bad player.
and for those who say, but SC2 isn't competing against League, different game. Except this isn't all that true, netcafe serves like the sport ground for school. If LoL has 20hours a day, the remaining 4hours is SC2. Which would the school pay more focus on? I remember when my boarding house won a competition in Badminton, no one cares. They cheered for football even when we were last place only because football is more popular. Team shirt? Football team had it. who would want to play badminton if all the focus is on football? Comm interview also said similar problem where League player is treated way better than SC2 players in China (mostly because it isn't as popular) And if BW is SC2 at this position, can you imagine how bad it would be? Don't forget there won't be a vivid pro scene like what we had in KR for BW back then. The game might not even be taken seriously
On September 06 2013 15:29 Gruntt wrote: It often feels like all the things we complained about SC2 when it first came out like unlimited unit highlighting, auto-mining, smart cast.....
..have all sort of trivialized the greatness about a lot of pro players that switched over. I think they felt the excitement in BW because there was almost really no "speed cap" so to speak simply because there was always so much shit to be done once you were 3+ bases. Those sick drops people used to do like using HTs in shuttles.... remember seeing boxer a long ass time ago doing crazy shit with dropships? People were so amazed because it was nuts how good someone had to be to just move the units and do commands like that. Good defiler use TO THIS DAY is amazing to watch. It's such a shitty weak little unit that is so hard to use correctly and takes so much micro.... that's why people were so fucking amazed to see its use. But how amazed were people by the infestor?
Now whenever you see someone play, I don't think anyone sees the actions of a player and goes "OH MY GOD THAT WAS SO AMAZING HOW DID HE DO THAT SO FAST" because all the actions can be done by fairly low level players because of the command options now.
Amazing things were trivialized in SC2 So it's really just not as entertaining. The mystery of the current meta was all there really was, but now it seems like matchups are figured out. I also loved the randomness of units sometimes in BW. They'd like scatter all around when they moved instead of being 100% perfectly fluid movements. Whenever someone had to pull back from an attack they had to hit a ton of hotkeys and also highlight (especially if zerg) and pull all that shit back. In BW that's about 20 moves.. in SC2 it's 1 click and whole army avoids the battle
Oh well, I'll just praise the snipealot2 stream for keeping my viewing fun
..just wish they wouldn't listen to such girly pop music constantly but whatever that's the culture ;(
Just look at these fuckin guys in snipealot2, whenever they win they get out of their chair or they cheer or something crazy. The win really gets them pumped. In basically every SC2 stream what happens when a player wins? They don't give a shit.
Great comment going unnoticed. Thanks, sums up what I've been thinking for a long time : SC2 is too easy to be truely interesting.
Exactly. That's why so many of the BW greats have been getting smashed. Because it's too easy.
On September 06 2013 15:29 Gruntt wrote: It often feels like all the things we complained about SC2 when it first came out like unlimited unit highlighting, auto-mining, smart cast.....
..have all sort of trivialized the greatness about a lot of pro players that switched over. I think they felt the excitement in BW because there was almost really no "speed cap" so to speak simply because there was always so much shit to be done once you were 3+ bases. Those sick drops people used to do like using HTs in shuttles.... remember seeing boxer a long ass time ago doing crazy shit with dropships? People were so amazed because it was nuts how good someone had to be to just move the units and do commands like that. Good defiler use TO THIS DAY is amazing to watch. It's such a shitty weak little unit that is so hard to use correctly and takes so much micro.... that's why people were so fucking amazed to see its use. But how amazed were people by the infestor?
Now whenever you see someone play, I don't think anyone sees the actions of a player and goes "OH MY GOD THAT WAS SO AMAZING HOW DID HE DO THAT SO FAST" because all the actions can be done by fairly low level players because of the command options now.
Amazing things were trivialized in SC2 So it's really just not as entertaining. The mystery of the current meta was all there really was, but now it seems like matchups are figured out. I also loved the randomness of units sometimes in BW. They'd like scatter all around when they moved instead of being 100% perfectly fluid movements. Whenever someone had to pull back from an attack they had to hit a ton of hotkeys and also highlight (especially if zerg) and pull all that shit back. In BW that's about 20 moves.. in SC2 it's 1 click and whole army avoids the battle
Oh well, I'll just praise the snipealot2 stream for keeping my viewing fun
..just wish they wouldn't listen to such girly pop music constantly but whatever that's the culture ;(
Just look at these fuckin guys in snipealot2, whenever they win they get out of their chair or they cheer or something crazy. The win really gets them pumped. In basically every SC2 stream what happens when a player wins? They don't give a shit.
so you get excited because an army retreat successfully because he just pressed 20 keys instead of 1? lol
Why not though? Its bloody hard to actually dance your 200/200 force without slipping many units.
In BW most things the pros did - holy how did he do that???? e.g. storms everywhere. In SC2 most things the pros do = I could probably do that.. most of the time given some practice.
Just watching a macro beast in BW was so awe inspiring because you know that you cannot group your buildings and press A or E to produce the units.. and yet some of the pros were 24/7 producing units non stop. Same goes for orchestrating an attack with 4+ control groups including spell casters/micro control. It was simply unreal.
Ive mentioned this before but easing the game does make the game better for casuals who ladder (not those who play custom games) in return for lowering the skill gap since one can do so much with such limitation (spectators will take the hit here). Tbh, if some of the ingame controls were reversed back e.g. unit control group number back to 12, perhaps no smart cast, the leagues would probably really differentiated among each other and the pros could really flex their muscle here.
because should a retreat be a part of WOW HOW DID HE DO THAT moment? If BW required 3000 clicks to even move one pixel, are you going to be excited because he moved five pixels? It should be the moves that the player is achieving, not an ordinary move that impresses you. For example siege tank: Sure retreating is awesome, for bw it might be awesome to watch the player just retreat with the tanks. but in SC2 a better player can differentiate himself by leap frog siege much better than an ordinary player Landing a storm is still super interesting because you have to flank or even do warp prism drop or out micro the T ghost to land them.
The highest factor that differentiates pros in SC2 is decision making. Sure mechanics aren't perfected, but mostly everyone is equal on those. There are a couple of outliers like Bomber's macro used to be or more recently Innovation but those aren't enough of a factor to make a big difference in player skill just because of how SC2 works.
If you think flash cant make it in lol, you are bronce or silver(in lol) He could single handly carry anyone in LoL, and pick either MID or TOP(most 1v1 lane in the game) and just outplay anyone. He could be the Faker of top lane or defeat faker mid. Remember that LoL is not only a team game, you need to win your lane + be careful not to get ganked + control the enemy skills + control the enemy wards. So as far as we know flash can do all those except for Team play(but he might be super good at this and shut everyone )
On August 19 2013 13:47 insectoidform wrote: How can flash think he has the same skill in LoL as he does in sc2? In LoL there 100+ champions to pick from while in sc2 there are 3 races. The amount of strategies that are employed in that game will never be understood by someone that plays a 1v1.
dude i'm better then you at everything in life. so i know for a fact flash is. especially games. don't question him. he said he is NOT good at lol learn to read. and the skill for that game is pretty much 0 you ass. there's not endless strategies to that game. just like any other game LoL is mapped out completely. flash could literally master it in a matter of days. starcraft play takes years to develop. speed and decision making is more beneficial in sc than any other game because of the capacity for skill. the capacity to press 5 buttons and hide in a bush until some dumb noob like you moves too far outa position and gets jumped by a button spammer. get a clue kid. that game is losing popularity so quick because its way too basic. and has very low entertainment quality. no 2 buttom spam moba noob who obviously doesn't even know their own game could ever possibly wrap their head around the skill and dedication it takes to be solid at rts.
On October 08 2013 08:51 Requiem- wrote: If you think flash cant make it in lol, you are bronce or silver(in lol) He could single handly carry anyone in LoL, and pick either MID or TOP(most 1v1 lane in the game) and just outplay anyone. He could be the Faker of top lane or defeat faker mid. Remember that LoL is not only a team game, you need to win your lane + be careful not to get ganked + control the enemy skills + control the enemy wards. So as far as we know flash can do all those except for Team play(but he might be super good at this and shut everyone )
uh duh. thank you for helping smoke this downs case kid
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Dg1W6vX.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/K2gE6c9.jpg)
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