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This is a heated issue, but please keep the debate civil.
Personal insult is not 'discussion' and will be moderated. -Page 17 |
On August 18 2013 21:50 thirtyapm wrote:
heh always thought he was really old.
the baldness really fooled me, more so than the beard
There was a video of him hosting a conference or something like 5 years ago, he looked like a 16 year old lol. The hair definitely fools alot of people
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On August 18 2013 21:40 Chronald wrote:
Been saying this for years. TB does not belong in the SC2 scene. He doesn't have an attachment to the game besides his prospective youtube viewers.
His heart has never been in it, and this should be his cue to GTFO of eSports before he fucks shit up for more hardworking, honest, and dedicated individuals.
TB is a british asshole who thinks he is entitled to some sort of God status within the eSport scene. Buying up a bunch of free agents and not doing anything with them besides complain about WCS and other tournaments does not make for a respectable team. Ryung is the only reason you even perform well at all. If Ryung left, you'd have no team. Get a grip, go eat a sausage (you fat fuck), and then never come back to eSports again. No one wants you or your stupid fat wife here.
I would really suggest you take a few minutes, read your post over a few times, and then think to yourself "is this a quality post?" i don't know what you expect people to do when they read what you just wrote. do you think they'll say "hey! Chronald is right! lets get our pitchforks!" or do you think that they will just think your an idiot.
On topic though. i really really hope that she come back. it was so cool to see her on those sc2 shows.
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On August 18 2013 20:59 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 13:42 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 18 2013 13:24 Kaitlin wrote:On August 18 2013 11:41 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 18 2013 11:29 Kaitlin wrote:On August 18 2013 11:17 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 18 2013 11:12 Kaitlin wrote:On August 18 2013 11:08 AgentW wrote:On August 18 2013 10:54 Kaitlin wrote:On August 18 2013 10:41 InvictusRage wrote:
[quote]
If your timeline wouldn't keep the money locked up for too long, I'd offer your choice of reputable agent to hold the money and stakes up to $2k on my end. What are you even talking about ? Sounds like he's willing to make a two thousand dollar bet if he had the ability to lock up the money for that long but he doesn't have the time to freeze that kind of capital. Yeah, I guess it's been a long time since "I would bet you $2,000 that you're wrong, but I can't tie up my money that long" was a valid counter argument. Those were the days ... I wasn't aware a valid argument was required for baseless supposition. I'm not sure it's such a "baseless supposition" to predict an outcome based upon demonstrated lack of business sense of the two people in charge of Axiom. Well, if you say it's a lack of business sense, I suppose your opinion is far more valid than that of two people who actually run a successful and lucrative internet business. Or, far more likely, you're severely exaggerating the consequences of this. Successful and lucrative business previously run by someone who stepped down as CEO by posting in a blog on TL.net ? Pouring money earned by doing something you are good at (John's work casting and creating content) into an operation run by someone with an overall lack of business sense does not make for a successful business. /cheer them for investing in eSports, fine, but to argue that because they are dumping money into an enterprise that it is successful and lucrative is wrong. My point was that their "model" of "honesty" and "transparency" does not work with serious business people, such as sponsors. When a business makes a concession to help defray the costs for Team Liquid, it doesn't mean they wanted all the other teams, let alone the entire planet to be aware of it. Do you actually think those who didn't get the same deal as Team Liquid aren't going to be a bit sore about it ? Do you actually think that the next time Take endeavors to organize a similar tournament, those other teams aren't going to be expecting more concessions ? Her disclosure hurt her business partners and, in addition, neither of them fucking realize it was wrong. That is the problem. The disclosure isn't even a mistake in their eyes. It's their business model. Also, successful businesspeople don't fucking just give up. They learn from their mistakes and keep on trucking. I think you're seriously confused. Axiom is not their business, it's their side project that may become a profitable venture, but was never expected to give them a living. They already have a business that is largely successful, and it allows them to put money into passion projects like Axiom and like SHOUTcraft America. You believe your opinion has weight in this argument. It doesn't. The General Chat has hundreds of posts screaming how something is dying every single week, and they're just as baseless as yours. If you actually have some real facts and real data backing you up, by all means, show it. Until then, stop pretending that anyone should treat your opinion seriously. To be fair, TB's work is hardly demonstrative of his ability to actually 'run a business'. He has a voice lots of people enjoy, and experience with game reviews and related content - it's a business in a sense, albeit very niche one. It's very much akin to any professional sportsman or mainstream artist etc; being able to make money from a skill or a talent such as this doesn't mean anything about your ability to run a business in any other sphere.
What you say doesn't make sense. He runs a business off a YouTube channel that allows him to support his family and run side projects. Just because it's a YouTube channel doesn't make it less of a business. The taxman certainly doesn't think so. And niche business certainly have a place. Just look at that town in Germany that specializes in making super-high quality musical instruments. That's could be considered pretty niche too.
Your post just makes it sound like you're envious when someone is able to exploit their abilities for profit. I suggest you go ahead and try to do it yourself, instead of posting on the internet putting down other people's success.
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On August 18 2013 22:43 Serek wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:59 Salazarz wrote:On August 18 2013 13:42 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 18 2013 13:24 Kaitlin wrote:On August 18 2013 11:41 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 18 2013 11:29 Kaitlin wrote:On August 18 2013 11:17 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 18 2013 11:12 Kaitlin wrote:On August 18 2013 11:08 AgentW wrote:On August 18 2013 10:54 Kaitlin wrote:
[quote]
What are you even talking about ? Sounds like he's willing to make a two thousand dollar bet if he had the ability to lock up the money for that long but he doesn't have the time to freeze that kind of capital. Yeah, I guess it's been a long time since "I would bet you $2,000 that you're wrong, but I can't tie up my money that long" was a valid counter argument. Those were the days ... I wasn't aware a valid argument was required for baseless supposition. I'm not sure it's such a "baseless supposition" to predict an outcome based upon demonstrated lack of business sense of the two people in charge of Axiom. Well, if you say it's a lack of business sense, I suppose your opinion is far more valid than that of two people who actually run a successful and lucrative internet business. Or, far more likely, you're severely exaggerating the consequences of this. Successful and lucrative business previously run by someone who stepped down as CEO by posting in a blog on TL.net ? Pouring money earned by doing something you are good at (John's work casting and creating content) into an operation run by someone with an overall lack of business sense does not make for a successful business. /cheer them for investing in eSports, fine, but to argue that because they are dumping money into an enterprise that it is successful and lucrative is wrong. My point was that their "model" of "honesty" and "transparency" does not work with serious business people, such as sponsors. When a business makes a concession to help defray the costs for Team Liquid, it doesn't mean they wanted all the other teams, let alone the entire planet to be aware of it. Do you actually think those who didn't get the same deal as Team Liquid aren't going to be a bit sore about it ? Do you actually think that the next time Take endeavors to organize a similar tournament, those other teams aren't going to be expecting more concessions ? Her disclosure hurt her business partners and, in addition, neither of them fucking realize it was wrong. That is the problem. The disclosure isn't even a mistake in their eyes. It's their business model. Also, successful businesspeople don't fucking just give up. They learn from their mistakes and keep on trucking. I think you're seriously confused. Axiom is not their business, it's their side project that may become a profitable venture, but was never expected to give them a living. They already have a business that is largely successful, and it allows them to put money into passion projects like Axiom and like SHOUTcraft America. You believe your opinion has weight in this argument. It doesn't. The General Chat has hundreds of posts screaming how something is dying every single week, and they're just as baseless as yours. If you actually have some real facts and real data backing you up, by all means, show it. Until then, stop pretending that anyone should treat your opinion seriously. To be fair, TB's work is hardly demonstrative of his ability to actually 'run a business'. He has a voice lots of people enjoy, and experience with game reviews and related content - it's a business in a sense, albeit very niche one. It's very much akin to any professional sportsman or mainstream artist etc; being able to make money from a skill or a talent such as this doesn't mean anything about your ability to run a business in any other sphere. What you say doesn't make sense. He runs a business off a YouTube channel that allows him to support his family and run side projects. Just because it's a YouTube channel doesn't make it less of a business. The taxman certainly doesn't think so. And niche business certainly have a place. Just look at that town in Germany that specializes in making super-high quality musical instruments. That's could be considered pretty niche too.Your post just makes it sound like you're envious when someone is able to exploit their abilities for profit. I suggest you go ahead and try to do it yourself, instead of posting on the internet putting down other people's success.
I think his point was that running a succesful YouTube channel does not necesserily make you a good CEO of anything but said YouTube channel. Just like being good at making high end music instruments will not make you a good restaurant owner.
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On August 18 2013 22:43 Serek wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:59 Salazarz wrote:On August 18 2013 13:42 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 18 2013 13:24 Kaitlin wrote:On August 18 2013 11:41 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 18 2013 11:29 Kaitlin wrote:On August 18 2013 11:17 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 18 2013 11:12 Kaitlin wrote:On August 18 2013 11:08 AgentW wrote:On August 18 2013 10:54 Kaitlin wrote:
[quote]
What are you even talking about ? Sounds like he's willing to make a two thousand dollar bet if he had the ability to lock up the money for that long but he doesn't have the time to freeze that kind of capital. Yeah, I guess it's been a long time since "I would bet you $2,000 that you're wrong, but I can't tie up my money that long" was a valid counter argument. Those were the days ... I wasn't aware a valid argument was required for baseless supposition. I'm not sure it's such a "baseless supposition" to predict an outcome based upon demonstrated lack of business sense of the two people in charge of Axiom. Well, if you say it's a lack of business sense, I suppose your opinion is far more valid than that of two people who actually run a successful and lucrative internet business. Or, far more likely, you're severely exaggerating the consequences of this. Successful and lucrative business previously run by someone who stepped down as CEO by posting in a blog on TL.net ? Pouring money earned by doing something you are good at (John's work casting and creating content) into an operation run by someone with an overall lack of business sense does not make for a successful business. /cheer them for investing in eSports, fine, but to argue that because they are dumping money into an enterprise that it is successful and lucrative is wrong. My point was that their "model" of "honesty" and "transparency" does not work with serious business people, such as sponsors. When a business makes a concession to help defray the costs for Team Liquid, it doesn't mean they wanted all the other teams, let alone the entire planet to be aware of it. Do you actually think those who didn't get the same deal as Team Liquid aren't going to be a bit sore about it ? Do you actually think that the next time Take endeavors to organize a similar tournament, those other teams aren't going to be expecting more concessions ? Her disclosure hurt her business partners and, in addition, neither of them fucking realize it was wrong. That is the problem. The disclosure isn't even a mistake in their eyes. It's their business model. Also, successful businesspeople don't fucking just give up. They learn from their mistakes and keep on trucking. I think you're seriously confused. Axiom is not their business, it's their side project that may become a profitable venture, but was never expected to give them a living. They already have a business that is largely successful, and it allows them to put money into passion projects like Axiom and like SHOUTcraft America. You believe your opinion has weight in this argument. It doesn't. The General Chat has hundreds of posts screaming how something is dying every single week, and they're just as baseless as yours. If you actually have some real facts and real data backing you up, by all means, show it. Until then, stop pretending that anyone should treat your opinion seriously. To be fair, TB's work is hardly demonstrative of his ability to actually 'run a business'. He has a voice lots of people enjoy, and experience with game reviews and related content - it's a business in a sense, albeit very niche one. It's very much akin to any professional sportsman or mainstream artist etc; being able to make money from a skill or a talent such as this doesn't mean anything about your ability to run a business in any other sphere. What you say doesn't make sense. He runs a business off a YouTube channel that allows him to support his family and run side projects. Just because it's a YouTube channel doesn't make it less of a business. The taxman certainly doesn't think so. And niche business certainly have a place. Just look at that town in Germany that specializes in making super-high quality musical instruments. That's could be considered pretty niche too. Your post just makes it sound like you're envious when someone is able to exploit their abilities for profit. I suggest you go ahead and try to do it yourself, instead of posting on the internet putting down other people's success.
I'm not saying his youtube channel isn't somehow a business or whatever nonsense you're so upset about. I'm saying that having a popular youtube channel is hardly indicative of your potential as a team manager.
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On August 18 2013 23:20 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 22:43 Serek wrote:On August 18 2013 20:59 Salazarz wrote:On August 18 2013 13:42 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 18 2013 13:24 Kaitlin wrote:On August 18 2013 11:41 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 18 2013 11:29 Kaitlin wrote:On August 18 2013 11:17 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 18 2013 11:12 Kaitlin wrote:On August 18 2013 11:08 AgentW wrote:
[quote]
Sounds like he's willing to make a two thousand dollar bet if he had the ability to lock up the money for that long but he doesn't have the time to freeze that kind of capital. Yeah, I guess it's been a long time since "I would bet you $2,000 that you're wrong, but I can't tie up my money that long" was a valid counter argument. Those were the days ... I wasn't aware a valid argument was required for baseless supposition. I'm not sure it's such a "baseless supposition" to predict an outcome based upon demonstrated lack of business sense of the two people in charge of Axiom. Well, if you say it's a lack of business sense, I suppose your opinion is far more valid than that of two people who actually run a successful and lucrative internet business. Or, far more likely, you're severely exaggerating the consequences of this. Successful and lucrative business previously run by someone who stepped down as CEO by posting in a blog on TL.net ? Pouring money earned by doing something you are good at (John's work casting and creating content) into an operation run by someone with an overall lack of business sense does not make for a successful business. /cheer them for investing in eSports, fine, but to argue that because they are dumping money into an enterprise that it is successful and lucrative is wrong. My point was that their "model" of "honesty" and "transparency" does not work with serious business people, such as sponsors. When a business makes a concession to help defray the costs for Team Liquid, it doesn't mean they wanted all the other teams, let alone the entire planet to be aware of it. Do you actually think those who didn't get the same deal as Team Liquid aren't going to be a bit sore about it ? Do you actually think that the next time Take endeavors to organize a similar tournament, those other teams aren't going to be expecting more concessions ? Her disclosure hurt her business partners and, in addition, neither of them fucking realize it was wrong. That is the problem. The disclosure isn't even a mistake in their eyes. It's their business model. Also, successful businesspeople don't fucking just give up. They learn from their mistakes and keep on trucking. I think you're seriously confused. Axiom is not their business, it's their side project that may become a profitable venture, but was never expected to give them a living. They already have a business that is largely successful, and it allows them to put money into passion projects like Axiom and like SHOUTcraft America. You believe your opinion has weight in this argument. It doesn't. The General Chat has hundreds of posts screaming how something is dying every single week, and they're just as baseless as yours. If you actually have some real facts and real data backing you up, by all means, show it. Until then, stop pretending that anyone should treat your opinion seriously. To be fair, TB's work is hardly demonstrative of his ability to actually 'run a business'. He has a voice lots of people enjoy, and experience with game reviews and related content - it's a business in a sense, albeit very niche one. It's very much akin to any professional sportsman or mainstream artist etc; being able to make money from a skill or a talent such as this doesn't mean anything about your ability to run a business in any other sphere. What you say doesn't make sense. He runs a business off a YouTube channel that allows him to support his family and run side projects. Just because it's a YouTube channel doesn't make it less of a business. The taxman certainly doesn't think so. And niche business certainly have a place. Just look at that town in Germany that specializes in making super-high quality musical instruments. That's could be considered pretty niche too. Your post just makes it sound like you're envious when someone is able to exploit their abilities for profit. I suggest you go ahead and try to do it yourself, instead of posting on the internet putting down other people's success. I'm not saying his youtube channel isn't somehow a business or whatever nonsense you're so upset about. I'm saying that having a popular youtube channel is hardly indicative of your potential as a team manager.
That is true, the skills to run a team are really unknown outside of Korea, which those teams are either heavily sponsored by the Kespa group or looking for sponsors. There is no correct model or skill set for running a SC2 team.
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On August 18 2013 23:04 Prog455 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 22:43 Serek wrote:On August 18 2013 20:59 Salazarz wrote:On August 18 2013 13:42 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 18 2013 13:24 Kaitlin wrote:On August 18 2013 11:41 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 18 2013 11:29 Kaitlin wrote:On August 18 2013 11:17 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 18 2013 11:12 Kaitlin wrote:On August 18 2013 11:08 AgentW wrote:
[quote]
Sounds like he's willing to make a two thousand dollar bet if he had the ability to lock up the money for that long but he doesn't have the time to freeze that kind of capital. Yeah, I guess it's been a long time since "I would bet you $2,000 that you're wrong, but I can't tie up my money that long" was a valid counter argument. Those were the days ... I wasn't aware a valid argument was required for baseless supposition. I'm not sure it's such a "baseless supposition" to predict an outcome based upon demonstrated lack of business sense of the two people in charge of Axiom. Well, if you say it's a lack of business sense, I suppose your opinion is far more valid than that of two people who actually run a successful and lucrative internet business. Or, far more likely, you're severely exaggerating the consequences of this. Successful and lucrative business previously run by someone who stepped down as CEO by posting in a blog on TL.net ? Pouring money earned by doing something you are good at (John's work casting and creating content) into an operation run by someone with an overall lack of business sense does not make for a successful business. /cheer them for investing in eSports, fine, but to argue that because they are dumping money into an enterprise that it is successful and lucrative is wrong. My point was that their "model" of "honesty" and "transparency" does not work with serious business people, such as sponsors. When a business makes a concession to help defray the costs for Team Liquid, it doesn't mean they wanted all the other teams, let alone the entire planet to be aware of it. Do you actually think those who didn't get the same deal as Team Liquid aren't going to be a bit sore about it ? Do you actually think that the next time Take endeavors to organize a similar tournament, those other teams aren't going to be expecting more concessions ? Her disclosure hurt her business partners and, in addition, neither of them fucking realize it was wrong. That is the problem. The disclosure isn't even a mistake in their eyes. It's their business model. Also, successful businesspeople don't fucking just give up. They learn from their mistakes and keep on trucking. I think you're seriously confused. Axiom is not their business, it's their side project that may become a profitable venture, but was never expected to give them a living. They already have a business that is largely successful, and it allows them to put money into passion projects like Axiom and like SHOUTcraft America. You believe your opinion has weight in this argument. It doesn't. The General Chat has hundreds of posts screaming how something is dying every single week, and they're just as baseless as yours. If you actually have some real facts and real data backing you up, by all means, show it. Until then, stop pretending that anyone should treat your opinion seriously. To be fair, TB's work is hardly demonstrative of his ability to actually 'run a business'. He has a voice lots of people enjoy, and experience with game reviews and related content - it's a business in a sense, albeit very niche one. It's very much akin to any professional sportsman or mainstream artist etc; being able to make money from a skill or a talent such as this doesn't mean anything about your ability to run a business in any other sphere. What you say doesn't make sense. He runs a business off a YouTube channel that allows him to support his family and run side projects. Just because it's a YouTube channel doesn't make it less of a business. The taxman certainly doesn't think so. And niche business certainly have a place. Just look at that town in Germany that specializes in making super-high quality musical instruments. That's could be considered pretty niche too.Your post just makes it sound like you're envious when someone is able to exploit their abilities for profit. I suggest you go ahead and try to do it yourself, instead of posting on the internet putting down other people's success. I think his point was that running a succesful YouTube channel does not necesserily make you a good CEO of anything but said YouTube channel. Just like being good at making high end music instruments will not make you a good restaurant owner.
That ignores the fact there are certain things that are common to running any business, otherwise all MBAs would be superfluous (and that's a whole different and valid discussion). The whole premise of the post I replied to relied on the fact that running a YouTube is not a legitimate business, which is something I disagree with.
I don't know whether TB can run a successful SC2 eSports team and frankly don't care. Although I do think he's got a slightly better chance of being successful at it compared to other people because he's been involved in the SC2 scene from early on. Only time will tell.
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On August 18 2013 23:54 Serek wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 23:04 Prog455 wrote:On August 18 2013 22:43 Serek wrote:On August 18 2013 20:59 Salazarz wrote:On August 18 2013 13:42 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 18 2013 13:24 Kaitlin wrote:On August 18 2013 11:41 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 18 2013 11:29 Kaitlin wrote:On August 18 2013 11:17 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 18 2013 11:12 Kaitlin wrote:
[quote]
Yeah, I guess it's been a long time since "I would bet you $2,000 that you're wrong, but I can't tie up my money that long" was a valid counter argument. Those were the days ... I wasn't aware a valid argument was required for baseless supposition. I'm not sure it's such a "baseless supposition" to predict an outcome based upon demonstrated lack of business sense of the two people in charge of Axiom. Well, if you say it's a lack of business sense, I suppose your opinion is far more valid than that of two people who actually run a successful and lucrative internet business. Or, far more likely, you're severely exaggerating the consequences of this. Successful and lucrative business previously run by someone who stepped down as CEO by posting in a blog on TL.net ? Pouring money earned by doing something you are good at (John's work casting and creating content) into an operation run by someone with an overall lack of business sense does not make for a successful business. /cheer them for investing in eSports, fine, but to argue that because they are dumping money into an enterprise that it is successful and lucrative is wrong. My point was that their "model" of "honesty" and "transparency" does not work with serious business people, such as sponsors. When a business makes a concession to help defray the costs for Team Liquid, it doesn't mean they wanted all the other teams, let alone the entire planet to be aware of it. Do you actually think those who didn't get the same deal as Team Liquid aren't going to be a bit sore about it ? Do you actually think that the next time Take endeavors to organize a similar tournament, those other teams aren't going to be expecting more concessions ? Her disclosure hurt her business partners and, in addition, neither of them fucking realize it was wrong. That is the problem. The disclosure isn't even a mistake in their eyes. It's their business model. Also, successful businesspeople don't fucking just give up. They learn from their mistakes and keep on trucking. I think you're seriously confused. Axiom is not their business, it's their side project that may become a profitable venture, but was never expected to give them a living. They already have a business that is largely successful, and it allows them to put money into passion projects like Axiom and like SHOUTcraft America. You believe your opinion has weight in this argument. It doesn't. The General Chat has hundreds of posts screaming how something is dying every single week, and they're just as baseless as yours. If you actually have some real facts and real data backing you up, by all means, show it. Until then, stop pretending that anyone should treat your opinion seriously. To be fair, TB's work is hardly demonstrative of his ability to actually 'run a business'. He has a voice lots of people enjoy, and experience with game reviews and related content - it's a business in a sense, albeit very niche one. It's very much akin to any professional sportsman or mainstream artist etc; being able to make money from a skill or a talent such as this doesn't mean anything about your ability to run a business in any other sphere. What you say doesn't make sense. He runs a business off a YouTube channel that allows him to support his family and run side projects. Just because it's a YouTube channel doesn't make it less of a business. The taxman certainly doesn't think so. And niche business certainly have a place. Just look at that town in Germany that specializes in making super-high quality musical instruments. That's could be considered pretty niche too.Your post just makes it sound like you're envious when someone is able to exploit their abilities for profit. I suggest you go ahead and try to do it yourself, instead of posting on the internet putting down other people's success. I think his point was that running a succesful YouTube channel does not necesserily make you a good CEO of anything but said YouTube channel. Just like being good at making high end music instruments will not make you a good restaurant owner. That ignores the fact there are certain things that are common to running any business, otherwise all MBAs would be superfluous (and that's a whole different and valid discussion). The whole premise of the post I replied to relied on the fact that running a YouTube is not a legitimate business, which is something I disagree with. I don't know whether TB can run a successful SC2 eSports team and frankly don't care. Although I do think he's got a slightly better chance of being successful at it compared to other people because he's been involved in the SC2 scene from early on. Only time will tell.
Of course there are things common to running any business, in doing pretty much everything there is in life, like interpersonal communications (at which TB has shown himself to be terrible). The point of my post was exactly that - there is absolutely no indication as to whether TB can run a successful esports team or not, and using his current youtube business as some sort of a proof that he will definitely be great at it is rather far fetched.
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meh, dont see the big deal.
genna used to be the team owner but we all know that TB was at least working along side with her without explicitely stating what his role is, I believe.
now all they do is switch roles. TB will be team owner and Genna will probably work behind the scenes but nobody knows how much or what role she has. they're married after all and axiom stands and falls with them.
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On August 18 2013 23:58 Salazarz wrote:
Of course there are things common to running any business, in doing pretty much everything there is in life, like interpersonal communications (at which TB has shown himself to be terrible).
i wouldn't generalize TB's P.R. debacles into " TB is terrible at interpersonal communication".
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On August 19 2013 00:13 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 23:58 Salazarz wrote:
Of course there are things common to running any business, in doing pretty much everything there is in life, like interpersonal communications (at which TB has shown himself to be terrible).
i wouldn't generalize TB's P.R. debacles into " TB is terrible at interpersonal communication".
That would be unfair, what is more fair would be "TB lashes out at people frequently, then expects total community forgiveness after apologizing." The guy does this somewhat frequently. I don't believe the attacks on him for being a manager are fair, let's let him do his job and then we can assess his strenghts and weaknesses; still, while I don't like bashing community figures, it irks me when he does this, especially because it makes it seem as if he is entitled to the forgiveness for 1 apology or 1 tweet when that isn't at all comensurate.
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On August 19 2013 00:21 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 00:13 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On August 18 2013 23:58 Salazarz wrote:
Of course there are things common to running any business, in doing pretty much everything there is in life, like interpersonal communications (at which TB has shown himself to be terrible).
i wouldn't generalize TB's P.R. debacles into " TB is terrible at interpersonal communication". That would be unfair, what is more fair would be "TB lashes out at people frequently, then expects total community forgiveness after apologizing." The guy does this somewhat frequently. I don't believe the attacks on him for being a manager are fair, let's let him do his job and then we can assess his strenghts and weaknesses; still, while I don't like bashing community figures, it irks me when he does this, especially because it makes it seem as if he is entitled to the forgiveness for 1 apology or 1 tweet when that isn't at all comensurate.
You assume that TB expects anything from the community other than viewership. His entire modus operandi is essentially two things: 1) Speak his mind, 2) Put out content. I've seen him have spats with individuals, and I've seen him apologize to individuals that are actually involved in the business, but I've never really seen him apologize to the community at large.
Honestly, I agree with him. Maybe not in tone and attitude, but the community is an unappeasable mess that will treat you like shit, and then throw a tantrum when it gets called out (or worse, ignored). If I was remotely involved in the SC2 ESports scene, I wouldn't even bother touching TL or Reddit.
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The thing about degrading the community is that this community is what makes these incomes and lifestyles possible. You don't have to like all your viewers but it's pretty awful and childish to disrespect and degrade them by calling them irrelevant, unimportant, and replaceable the way TB is known to do.
Are there even any other industries where people are praised for being honest and open minded after calling their fanbases / customers retarded and worthless, outside of esports?
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Genna, TB, I don't know if either of you two will read this, but I want to lend you both whatever support a post on TL makes for. TB, I listened to your SoundCloud recording on Genna's retirement, as well as having followed your work since just prior to WoW Cataclysm, and what I respect the most about both you and Genna is how honest and straightforward you've both been. Even if you made points that I disagreed with, I never questioned your integrity or intellectual honesty. The same goes for Genna's management of Axiom. Genna, the transparency and professionalism with which you conducted Axiom's business was a breath of fresh air, and the team's success reflected how well you treated them. I'm very sorry to see you go, and I only wish the best for you in your professional and personal life. It's not much, but I'm going to add you to the short list of people I follow on Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube.
On a more general point, the eSports scene specifically, and gaming in general, is becoming more and more embarrassing. With everything that's been happening recently with the horrible abuse game developers get, and the unreasonable reactions that Genna's been getting, it's starting to feel like a relatively small group of adolescents, teenagers, and immature adults are running the creative and productive people out of town. Astonishingly, it seems like it's for nothing more severe than being told "No" once in a while amid largely being given what we want. It's one thing to be disappointed by a nerf, but death threats? Sometimes I wonder whether arresting the LoL player for writing something stupid on Facebook wasn't such an unreasonable thing, after all.
TLDR: Please don't be a bully online or anywhere. Genna, best of luck to you.
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On August 19 2013 05:25 Salazarz wrote:
The thing about degrading the community is that this community is what makes these incomes and lifestyles possible. You don't have to like all your viewers but it's pretty awful and childish to disrespect and degrade them by calling them irrelevant, unimportant, and replaceable the way TB is known to do.
Are there even any other industries where people are praised for being honest and open minded after calling their fanbases / customers retarded and worthless, outside of esports?
For what it's worth, TB usually distinguishes between the loud, abusive minority and the quiet, reasonable majority of the fanbase. He's perfectly right to do that, too. He's not degrading the community as a whole, he's chiding the people who behave horribly. And those people need to knock it off.
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On August 19 2013 05:25 Salazarz wrote:
The thing about degrading the community is that this community is what makes these incomes and lifestyles possible. You don't have to like all your viewers but it's pretty awful and childish to disrespect and degrade them by calling them irrelevant, unimportant, and replaceable the way TB is known to do.
Are there even any other industries where people are praised for being honest and open minded after calling their fanbases / customers retarded and worthless, outside of esports?
Is there any other industry where you're actually interacting with people in the business on a 1:1 basis?
You really only have two options: Either have these people in the actual community with the occasional lash-out, or have them speak to you through a one-way filter. Or have the community shape up...lol...
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United Kingdom12024 Posts
On August 19 2013 05:49 Mangea wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 05:25 Salazarz wrote:
The thing about degrading the community is that this community is what makes these incomes and lifestyles possible. You don't have to like all your viewers but it's pretty awful and childish to disrespect and degrade them by calling them irrelevant, unimportant, and replaceable the way TB is known to do.
Are there even any other industries where people are praised for being honest and open minded after calling their fanbases / customers retarded and worthless, outside of esports? For what it's worth, TB usually distinguishes between the loud, abusive minority and the quiet, reasonable majority of the fanbase. He's perfectly right to do that, too. He's not degrading the community as a whole, he's chiding the people who behave horribly. And those people need to knock it off.
That would be all well and good if he sometimes took his own advice. I understand that he's controversial purely to get viewers, much like everyone else in any form of media who has an image like his, but he can't do that to people when it's exactly how he acts himself sometimes. It's much like Phil Fish, if you act the way he does all the time you can't get upset when people call you out for it.
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I love John, but he can't be Ghenna on this project. eSports really needs a womans touch - and Ghenna was the right woman.
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Sad to see her go indeed. Best of luck to her.
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On August 19 2013 16:35 Dracolich70 wrote:
I love John, but he can't be Ghenna on this project. eSports really needs a womans touch - and Ghenna was the right woman.
The misspell you did there, that was a typo, right?
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EPT
