Excerpt from his blog but still check it out for more details.
"Hey! Just got done streaming for the day and I'm currently talking on Inside The Game. I've decided to talk a bit about my future plans. To do this, I'll have to go back to 1½ years ago.
It was a period when I was feeling very bad. I was playing very decent Starcraft but I wasn't feeling very well as a human being. I sat at home and mostly just played and went to tournaments. Nothing really wrong with that but I had no plans for the future and I didn't think playing was as fun anymore. I was mostly playing because it was the only thing I knew. I felt a lot of anxiety and it felt like I didn't really have anything to live for. I started becoming depressed and spent a lot of time searching the Internet for aid. I was very confused and didn't know who I was or where I was going in life. I regretted the past and worried over the future. I started becoming interested in what I read and kept getting more and more interested in psychology, psychiatry and general mental health. After a while I started buying books on the subject that I gladly read through. I felt that this was something I had a passion for, something I wanted to do in the future. I decided that psychiatry was my thing. I immediately started feeling better, this was something I needed to get rid of my anxiety. When I started feeling better I felt that I was still interested and that it wasn't something I developed an interest for just to help myself. I wanted to be able to help others too.
My grades in high school were pretty good, but not good enough for med school. This was something I had developed a lot of anxiety over, because one of the reasons for not having better grades was my high absence. I had however completed the SAT a couple of times and kept doing it every time I could because why not as long as I wasn't already studying and had a bunch of free time anyway. I managed to score very decently so I stopped worrying as much over my grades.
I'm 22 years old now and I've told myself and others for a long time that I don't want to keep doing e-sports full time for too long, because according to me it doesn't provide you with a very secure or bright future, especially not if you've 'only' been a progamer. I've applied for university every year since I finished high school but always turned it down because I wanted to keep being a progamer. My motivation has swindled and I feel that I still want to keep playing, but not put all my eggs in the Starcraft 2 basket so to speak. I played more Starcraft and improved my play much faster when Starcraft was a hobby and not a job. Now I've decided to accept my university invitation and will be studying at Linköping's med school program starting this autumn and 5½ years forward, while I keep playing Starcraft on the side as much as I can. It won't be easy and I'll probably devote almost all my time to studying and playing Starcraft, and not much else. I've spoken with EG and will still be representing them in the future.
Hopefully it's not as bad as it sounds despite not exactly being an easy field of study. For better or worse, I was never the kind of player to play a whole lot to begin with, but we'll see how it ends up.
On August 14 2013 18:47 ramask2 wrote: One thing for sure, I have a much easier time picturing Thorzain as a doctor than I do Stephano!
Really? I don't. In terms of the social dynamic, stephano has a sort of natural arrogance, where as thorzain always gave me the impression he was still really socially awkward and afraid. I'm not insulting him, i'm that way also .
Excerpt from his blog but still check it out for more details.
"I'm more starcraft and improved my game a lot faster when starcraft was a hobby, not a job. now I have decided to accept the University and will be studying at medical school in Linköping now for autumn and 5 ½ years, and play starcraft as much as I can outside of school stuff. It will not be easy and I will probably spend most of my time to plug and starcraft, and not much else. I've talked with the EC and will continue to represent them in the future."
Best of luck Thorzain!
EC = EG; Google translate doing some weird translation here. Anyway: GL to Thorzain.
Here's a full translation you can edit into the OP, enjoy. The quality of writing reflects that of the original text.
Future plans
Hey! Just got done streaming for the day and I'm currently talking on Inside The Game. I've decided to talk a bit about my future plans. To do this, I'll have to go back to 1½ years ago.
It was a period when I was feeling very bad. I was playing very decent Starcraft but I wasn't feeling very well as a human being. I sat at home and mostly just played and went to tournaments. Nothing really wrong with that but I had no plans for the future and I didn't think playing was as fun anymore. I was mostly playing because it was the only thing I knew. I felt a lot of anxiety and it felt like I didn't really have anything to live for. I started becoming depressed and spent a lot of time searching the Internet for aid. I was very confused and didn't know who I was or where I was going in life. I regretted the past and worried over the future. I started becoming interested in what I read and kept getting more and more interested in psychology, psychiatry and general mental health. After a while I started buying books on the subject that I gladly read through. I felt that this was something I had a passion for, something I wanted to do in the future. I decided that psychiatry was my thing. I immediately started feeling better, this was something I needed to get rid of my anxiety. When I started feeling better I felt that I was still interested and that it wasn't something I developed an interest for just to help myself. I wanted to be able to help others too.
My grades in high school were pretty good, but not good enough for med school. This was something I had developed a lot of anxiety over, because one of the reasons for not having better grades was my high absence. I had however completed the SAT a couple of times and kept doing it every time I could because why not as long as I wasn't already studying and had a bunch of free time anyway. I managed to score very decently so I stopped worrying as much over my grades.
I'm 22 years old now and I've told myself and others for a long time that I don't want to keep doing e-sports full time for too long, because according to me it doesn't provide you with a very secure or bright future, especially not if you've 'only' been a progamer. I've applied for university every year since I finished high school but always turned it down because I wanted to keep being a progamer. My motivation has swindled and I feel that I still want to keep playing, but not put all my eggs in the Starcraft 2 basket so to speak. I played more Starcraft and improved my play much faster when Starcraft was a hobby and not a job. Now I've decided to accept my university invitation and will be studying at Linköping's med school program starting this autumn and 5½ years forward, while I keep playing Starcraft on the side as much as I can. It won't be easy and I'll probably devote almost all my time to studying and playing Starcraft, and not much else. I've spoken with EG and will still be representing them in the future.
Hopefully it's not as bad as it sounds despite not exactly being an easy field of study. For better or worse, I was never the kind of player to play a whole lot to begin with, but we'll see how it ends up.
Reading this, it feels he's doing the right thing !
Will miss a bit the Spoon Terran (well, he doesn't retire, but we may see less of him), the first terran I really rooted for back in the middle of TSL3 !
On August 14 2013 18:47 ramask2 wrote: One thing for sure, I have a much easier time picturing Thorzain as a doctor than I do Stephano!
Stephano said at WCS EU Finals Season 1 that he doesn't want to study medicine anymore, because it takes too long. He wants to study ...engineering... somewhat.
@ Topic: More and more of the progamers that were Topnotch when i started with SC2 are now retiring or are not really as active or good as they were back in 2011. IEM CeBIT 2011 and TSL 3 were the first tournaments i watched and loved. AcE, Moon, ThorZaIN, NaNiwa, HuK, even MC. Quite sad to realize that time goes by. Even sadder to realize time goes by through SC2 Announcements...
On August 14 2013 18:54 Lonyo wrote: Guess that means EG will have even more money to spend on players when JD's contract is up for renewal, no Idra, half a Thorzain and no Stephano.
EG gonna buy all the Kespa teams with their dirty esports money
Thank you vrok for the effort you went through with the full transcript, it makes the situation easier to understand.
I can't fault Thorzain's reasoning behind moving towards playing part-time given that his results aren't showing themselves to be the best anymore and he DOES still have the option of pushing for his future through more "standard" channels. He's right, it's very hard to support yourself if you're a progamer and not a content-provider / caster / personality.
Best of luck to Thorzain in his future endeavors I am excited to see what we will get from him when he is enjoying the game more instead of playing for its own sake. It has done wonders for other EG players that have stepped down ^_^
On August 14 2013 18:49 Dreamer.T wrote: Thorzain vs Stephano bo3 in knowledge of medicine.
Didn't Stephano say that he was going to study Engineering? I think that's what I heard at WCS EU when he was speaking on camera.
Hmm, I'm not sure. All the information from before indicated he was going into the medical field. If it's true he's going into engineering, cool as well. MvE .
Good choice Thorzain You should definitely think about your future and long term plans in life. Thanks for all the amazing games so far, but I still do hope to see more of you in the future GL & HF at med school, or wherever you choose to go!
I'm sad to see him go, though his results as of late haven't been up to his previous standard. If I ever happen to need a surgeon, someone as meticulous as Thorzain would be ideal!
Funny enough: Thorzain beat Classic in a PL TvT, becoming the first foreigner in ages to win a PL match, and Classic proceeded to race-switch and become one of the better protoss players, probably quite embarrassed by that loss.
On August 14 2013 18:57 vrok wrote: It was a period when I was feeling very bad. I was playing very decent Starcraft but I wasn't feeling very well as a human being. I sat at home and mostly just played and went to tournaments. Nothing really wrong with that but I had no plans for the future and I didn't think playing was as fun anymore. I was mostly playing because it was the only thing I knew. I felt a lot of anxiety and it felt like I didn't really have anything to live for. I started becoming depressed and spent a lot of time searching the Internet for aid. I was very confused and didn't know who I was or where I was going in life. I regretted the past and worried over the future.
An interesting read and this paragraph particularly got through to me as it's something I've thought about in the past. Even if you do somehow make it to pro level, "pro gamer", for SC2 in particular, seems like an incredibly lonely career. Sure you can treat it like an eight till five job, but when you finish for the day then what? Not so easy to just go to the pub with co-workers since you're on your own the whole time. I guess it would be different with the whole team house thing but I can only think of three foreign teams that actually use team houses and in each of those team only a small portion of the players actually live there.
Good luck Thorzain! I'll still be super excited to see you play when you do decide to play. Hope your studies go well! I also want to thank you for choosing that discipline. Mental health is often dismissed, and we really need more people to provide help and awareness. (:
Hopefully it's not as bad as it sounds despite not exactly being an easy field of study. For better or worse, I was never the kind of player to play a whole lot to begin with, but we'll see how it ends up.
Best of luck Thorzain!
As a final year medical student (also with particular interest in psychiatry) I can confirm that its an amazing course and I can imagine you will love it.
Make sure SC2 doesn't get in the way of your studies. In my vain attempt to reach top master, it certainly has gotten in the way of mine!
well it was sad to see that since he joined EG his rate success started to go down quite a bit and now he is in danger of dropping out of WCS EU too (CURSED) but gl to him for his future career (yes I know he is going to keep playing but I don't think that playing while studying really works too well (at least from what I have seen from some german players))
I hope he has made some good money from his time on EG and has a nice life
On August 14 2013 19:05 Ragnarork wrote: Reading this, it feels he's doing the right thing !
Will miss a bit the Spoon Terran (well, he doesn't retire, but we may see less of him), the first terran I really rooted for back in the middle of TSL3 !
Yea, TSL3 was his moment of glory! Praethorians Thorzain ...so cute.
Good luck ThorZaIN ! EG is losing a lot of fan favorite players (IdrA, Stephano, ThorZaIN). They should easily resign Jaedong. But I'm looking forward to see their future plans.
On August 14 2013 18:46 Gorribal wrote: Foreign Terran just not viable anymore
I don't know that it ever really was.
Lucifron/Happy/Demuslim are pretty good.
Thorzain is still the only Foreign terran to win a major. IN 3 YEARS
So yeah, it's hard.
He´s not the only one, Sjow won the IEM European Championship in Kiev 2010 and Naama won DH Winter 2010, beating TOP, who won ode A shortly after.
This is probably the best thing for Thorzain, he secures his future with this and while playing part time is a slight disadvantadge, players like Nerchio and Welmu do it as well and Luci&Vortix did it for the longest time, so I don´t think it effects his play that much. GL with medical school, ThorZaiN.
Guys he will still attend lans and play, just not as much as he used to, so we will still see him play The difference might only be his skill. There is still plenty of spoon terran left to watch(when he has time ofc) :D
On August 14 2013 21:59 SpecialistSc wrote: I'm in med school. He won't have time to play sc2...
Sadly, this. Not to be a Debbie Downer, but medical programs are brutal regardless of your area of expertise. Well, he should have time to play during his first year, and maybe second, since the course load won't be TOO bad then, but after that...
Its a smart decision, kinda surprised cuz i always feel declining pros cling to their stuff and cant move on. gl with the studies, the first months probably are the hardest after living the full time pro gamer live.
On August 14 2013 21:59 SpecialistSc wrote: I'm in med school. He won't have time to play sc2...
Sadly, this. Not to be a Debbie Downer, but medical programs are brutal regardless of your area of expertise. Well, he should have time to play during his first year, and maybe second, since the course load won't be TOO bad then, but after that...
not really true. im a final year medical student in the UK and have plenty of time to mess around on sc2. im not thorzains level obviously, but he will have enough time to stay pretty good at the game i believe
Wow, great blog and I'm glad that he has found motivation doing something even if it won't be Starcraft going forward. Best of luck, and hopefully he will have a few more great tournaments in him!
Lets all be serious here hes staying as a marketing player since thats what EG really is with their foreign players. I mean im sure he will still stay at the GM level it doesnt seem hard to do once you reach his level.
But at the rate SC2, foreign SC2 is going(even tho EU doing well) best decision you can make is go to school. Dont be in IdrA
Wise decision You need to think about the future too as a progammer.
Also people med school does not mean doctor all the time,there are tons of other job you can do with a bachelor in medical,you don't have to go all the way to Phd and become doc...
This is a fantastic opportunity for someone in our community to start a new stage in his life! And while he may- almost entirely- end up leaving the scene for his studies, I think it's great if this is what he wants to pursue in the long run.
I love EG and I love Thorzain, and I hope Marcus aggressively follows his (other) passion!
Never a foolish decision to be thinking about your long term future and something I just have to respect. I hope to at least see Thorzain playing in some EU tournaments on occasion, but whatever comes of that, I hope he puts school first and is successful at that. GL Thorzain!
I don't think this is sad at all... I mean this is what players like Suppy and Polt are doing and they still seem to be able keep up their skills and play competitively. Not only is this the smarter move for his future, but if he feels it will help him be more motivated to play and enjoy the game then good luck to him!
On August 14 2013 18:47 ramask2 wrote: One thing for sure, I have a much easier time picturing Thorzain as a doctor than I do Stephano!
Stephano said at WCS EU Finals Season 1 that he doesn't want to study medicine anymore, because it takes too long. He wants to study ...engineering... somewhat.
That's interesting. I've heard (from some in this forum and other forums) that some of these European doctoral/ other programs are more... laid back? not as challenging? not as hard to complete or apply to? as those in America. Here, you can't just arbitrarily snap your fingers and go "meh I'll start to study medicine/ engineering/ plenty of other things now kthxbye" with no prior education.
On August 14 2013 18:47 ramask2 wrote: One thing for sure, I have a much easier time picturing Thorzain as a doctor than I do Stephano!
Stephano said at WCS EU Finals Season 1 that he doesn't want to study medicine anymore, because it takes too long. He wants to study ...engineering... somewhat.
That's interesting. I've heard (from some in this forum and other forums) that some of these European doctoral/ other programs are more... laid back? not as challenging? not as hard to complete or apply to? as those in America. Here, you can't just arbitrarily snap your fingers and go "meh I'll start to study medicine/ engineering/ plenty of other things now kthxbye" with no prior education.
i know about UK and france (as gf is a french medical student)
in UK its very hard to get in (normally 10 apply per place) but once you do get in, its alot more fun and relaxed than people make out (but still very challenging at times). in france its opposite. its easy to get into medicine, but the 1st year exams are a nightmare and only the top 10% continue. i dont know what sweden is like
On August 14 2013 18:49 Dreamer.T wrote: Thorzain vs Stephano bo3 in knowledge of medicine.
They become world class doctors and argue with each other of the same player. ANd have to duke it out in starcraft to see who does the operation >.< one can dream
it's true eSports does not provide a stable future and going back to school is the best choice, I get worried when kids want to go pro rather than go to school. Its hard and depressing and in the end you get 5 minutes of fame and left with nothing.
Ya, I think this is pretty smart. It is good to know when you should just move on from SC II. I hate to say it, but I don't think Thorzain is going to win another major.
On August 15 2013 00:44 aka_star wrote: it's true eSports does not provide a stable future and going back to school is the best choice, I get worried when kids want to go pro rather than go to school. Its hard and depressing and in the end you get 5 minutes of fame and left with nothing.
you can normally go back to school/college/university at 18-25 years old. if you get the opportunity to be a pro gamer for a few years, take it!
Good luck, pretty sure Thorazain can pull of studying and still be relevant in the foreign scene, just like Nerchio and many others. I actually have no idea why Stephano doesn't continue playing part time, since he didn't train as much in the first place.
And Stephano can’t do the same, why? Thorzain said he practices every day for like 8-10 hours. Stephano said he barely practiced at all and had more success. Stephano should have remained the part time progamer since he only practices for like 1-3 hours a day and still places high at tournaments.
On August 15 2013 00:56 ladysman09 wrote: And Stephano can’t do the same, why? Thorzain said he practices every day for like 8-10 hours. Stephano said he barely practiced at all and had more success. Stephano should have remained the part time progamer since he only practices for like 1-3 hours a day and still places high at tournaments.
this was debunked several times by his teammates, even incontrol. Maybe at times he only played a few hours a day, but I also heard several times that he really busted his ass training at this game, and bragged about only putting in a few hours just for show to maintain that kind of rock star "i dont give a shit" image.
On August 15 2013 00:56 ladysman09 wrote: And Stephano can’t do the same, why? Thorzain said he practices every day for like 8-10 hours. Stephano said he barely practiced at all and had more success. Stephano should have remained the part time progamer since he only practices for like 1-3 hours a day and still places high at tournaments.
this was debunked several times by his teammates, even incontrol. Maybe at times he only played a few hours a day, but I also heard several times that he really busted his ass training at this game, and bragged about only putting in a few hours just for show to maintain that kind of rock star "i dont give a shit" image.
Mondragon has claimed to never practice throughout his career despite visibly spending all his free time in op tot) looking for games.
Transitioning from playing SC2 full time to medical school prerequisites at the age of 22, and thinking of playing the game on the side... a little overambitious if he's not some sort of prodigy. Hard to overcome the lower plasticity in an adult brain.
Gl Marcus, i expect there wont be much time for SC since medschool takes up pretty much all the time you´ve got, but i can see how his is the right choise best of luck, hope to see you stream again.
On August 15 2013 01:06 SonZHi wrote: Transitioning from playing SC2 full time to medical school prerequisites at the age of 22, and thinking of playing the game on the side... a little overambitious if he's not some sort of prodigy. Hard to overcome the lower plasticity in an adult brain.
Err,...what? Do you really think it makes such a big difference to start medical school at 22 years compared to 19 for example? Lower plasticity in an adult brain...lol.
On August 15 2013 00:56 ladysman09 wrote: And Stephano can’t do the same, why? Thorzain said he practices every day for like 8-10 hours. Stephano said he barely practiced at all and had more success. Stephano should have remained the part time progamer since he only practices for like 1-3 hours a day and still places high at tournaments.
On August 15 2013 01:06 SonZHi wrote: Transitioning from playing SC2 full time to medical school prerequisites at the age of 22, and thinking of playing the game on the side... a little overambitious if he's not some sort of prodigy. Hard to overcome the lower plasticity in an adult brain.
So much negativity ... . Many people start studying with 22 or even later, and graduate students often are 26-30. So, based on experience, I don't think this is a valid point.
Playing SC2 while studying can be harmful, though. SC2 requires you to multitask, to observe minimal movements on the minimap, and to make quick decisions and actions. These skills are quite detrimental to concentrating on a book...
Obviously Thorzain in his infinite spoon wisdom has decided that it will benefit him to spend 5+ years studying the psychology of mind games and korean mentality.
Welcome to Linköping and glhf with the studies! =)
In the U.S., before going to "medical school", there is a regular 4 year undergraduate study at a university, after which you can apply to medical school, which is 3 years. It's very, very competitive and difficult to get in without being the cream of the crop. For context, could someone explain the equivalent process for which Thorzain is applying ? It seems a bit premature to announce "medical school" before having started the initial 4 years of undergraduate work, at least in the U.S. Is it different in Europe ? Does the process in Europe not involved several hundred thousand in debt for the medical school part alone ? Is it not as competitive as a barrier to entry as it is in the U.S. ?
On August 15 2013 01:06 SonZHi wrote: Transitioning from playing SC2 full time to medical school prerequisites at the age of 22, and thinking of playing the game on the side... a little overambitious if he's not some sort of prodigy. Hard to overcome the lower plasticity in an adult brain.
Err,...what? Do you really think it makes such a big difference to start medical school at 22 years compared to 19 for example? Lower plasticity in an adult brain...lol.
I dunno what the EU is like but I'd have to agree. Canadian med schools don't even take you until you've done an undergrad.
On August 15 2013 04:18 Kaitlin wrote: In the U.S., before going to "medical school", there is a regular 4 year undergraduate study at a university, after which you can apply to medical school, which is 3 years. It's very, very competitive and difficult to get in without being the cream of the crop. For context, could someone explain the equivalent process for which Thorzain is applying ? It seems a bit premature to announce "medical school" before having started the initial 4 years of undergraduate work, at least in the U.S. Is it different in Europe ? Does the process in Europe not involved several hundred thousand in debt for the medical school part alone ? Is it not as competitive as a barrier to entry as it is in the U.S. ?
In France you can enter it freely and then there's a major exam at the end of the first year, where only 10 to 15% of student pass to the second year. Dunno if it's the same in Sweden but it's probably something closer to that than the american system
On August 15 2013 04:18 Kaitlin wrote: In the U.S., before going to "medical school", there is a regular 4 year undergraduate study at a university, after which you can apply to medical school, which is 3 years. It's very, very competitive and difficult to get in without being the cream of the crop. For context, could someone explain the equivalent process for which Thorzain is applying ? It seems a bit premature to announce "medical school" before having started the initial 4 years of undergraduate work, at least in the U.S. Is it different in Europe ? Does the process in Europe not involved several hundred thousand in debt for the medical school part alone ? Is it not as competitive as a barrier to entry as it is in the U.S. ?
In France you can enter it freely and then there's a major exam at the end of the first year, where only 10 to 15% of student pass to the second year. Dunno if it's the same in Sweden but it's probably something closer to that than the american system
Is that before the initial 4 years to get the undergraduate degree from a university ? Also, it seems pretty costly to have a completely open door to the initial year of education before the screening process takes place. Does the student bear these costs or is it the taxpayer ?
Sad b/c i have been dreaming to be a professional gamer since i was 14 and rank 1 on azerothe for wc3:tft and hes on the best foreign team imo...
Happy b/c games and depression coincide. Reaching the pinnacle of your career and realizing theres so much more to life then an unstable esports career.
I'm astounded at people thinking this is a win/win situation for thorzain. This is rather a lose-lose situation. If he wants to get far and successful in either field, it's inevitable to drop one. Same goes for suppy, he's spending time that he could have spent otherwise in research, volunteer, shadowing, into professional gaming. It's only a matter of time before thorzain quit competitive computer gaming completely. Only a logical option.
On August 15 2013 04:18 Kaitlin wrote: In the U.S., before going to "medical school", there is a regular 4 year undergraduate study at a university, after which you can apply to medical school, which is 3 years. It's very, very competitive and difficult to get in without being the cream of the crop. For context, could someone explain the equivalent process for which Thorzain is applying ? It seems a bit premature to announce "medical school" before having started the initial 4 years of undergraduate work, at least in the U.S. Is it different in Europe ? Does the process in Europe not involved several hundred thousand in debt for the medical school part alone ? Is it not as competitive as a barrier to entry as it is in the U.S. ?
Dunno about the specifics in Sweden, but here in Germany you apply for medical school after high school. You typically do your "A-levels" with 18 or 19, then apply at an university (you typically need really good grades to make it) and study for around six years, whereof the last year is partical training at a hospital. Afterwards, however, many students decide to continue their studies and become medical specialists, which takes another five years.
However, I am not a doctor, so I may have missed some subtleties.
On August 15 2013 04:18 Kaitlin wrote: In the U.S., before going to "medical school", there is a regular 4 year undergraduate study at a university, after which you can apply to medical school, which is 3 years. It's very, very competitive and difficult to get in without being the cream of the crop. For context, could someone explain the equivalent process for which Thorzain is applying ? It seems a bit premature to announce "medical school" before having started the initial 4 years of undergraduate work, at least in the U.S. Is it different in Europe ? Does the process in Europe not involved several hundred thousand in debt for the medical school part alone ? Is it not as competitive as a barrier to entry as it is in the U.S. ?
In France you can enter it freely and then there's a major exam at the end of the first year, where only 10 to 15% of student pass to the second year. Dunno if it's the same in Sweden but it's probably something closer to that than the american system
Is that before the initial 4 years to get the undergraduate degree from a university ? Also, it seems pretty costly to have a completely open door to the initial year of education before the screening process takes place. Does the student bear these costs or is it the taxpayer ?
Dude, here in Europe, it's always the taxpayer! And yes, it is before.
Actually, I was wrong about it being 3 years in the U.S. It's 4 years of Medical School, after the 4 years of undergraduate study. Of course, after medical school is another 3 years of "hands on" as an intern. Every step of the way is very restrictive (competitively and financially) and it's hardly something you can expect to complete, especially before having even started the process at all.
On August 15 2013 04:18 Kaitlin wrote: In the U.S., before going to "medical school", there is a regular 4 year undergraduate study at a university, after which you can apply to medical school, which is 3 years. It's very, very competitive and difficult to get in without being the cream of the crop. For context, could someone explain the equivalent process for which Thorzain is applying ? It seems a bit premature to announce "medical school" before having started the initial 4 years of undergraduate work, at least in the U.S. Is it different in Europe ? Does the process in Europe not involved several hundred thousand in debt for the medical school part alone ? Is it not as competitive as a barrier to entry as it is in the U.S. ?
In France you can enter it freely and then there's a major exam at the end of the first year, where only 10 to 15% of student pass to the second year. Dunno if it's the same in Sweden but it's probably something closer to that than the american system
Is that before the initial 4 years to get the undergraduate degree from a university ? Also, it seems pretty costly to have a completely open door to the initial year of education before the screening process takes place. Does the student bear these costs or is it the taxpayer ?
Tax payer, Public University (all med school are) in france are more or less free (at most 750e/y if your parents are wealthy and with only one child iirc) and yes it's just after HS.
As far as I know (from what I've heard from friends who're going down the same route as Thorzain), you apply for "medical school" right after "high school". Our educational system is a little different from for example that of the U.S. Post-high school studies don't work like they do for Americans, for example, and you don't pay for the studies themselves (though you do pay for all study material, but that's a minor expense in comparison to the enormous bills many medical students in the U.S seem to end up with). Though there's much more to do before you can actually call yourself a doctor - much like medical studies require an undergrad in the U.S. Anyway, If the guy thinks he can handle studies + SC2, then he probably can. I don't think he came up with this idea on the fly just yesterday.
On August 15 2013 05:04 Kaitlin wrote: Actually, I was wrong about it being 3 years in the U.S. It's 4 years of Medical School, after the 4 years of undergraduate study. Of course, after medical school is another 3 years of "hands on" as an intern. Every step of the way is very restrictive (competitively and financially) and it's hardly something you can expect to complete, especially before having even started the process at all.
yea
4 years of undergrad (usually, some people can complete college degree in 3 years) 2 years of pre clinical studies in medical school USMLE, step 1 - a single most important exam in all medical students' lives 2 years of clinicals in medical school -> MD degree 4 years of residency 2 or more years of fellowship
So it's a long long process to become a doctor in the US
Hey, nyan. First time posting! And an MD to boot! :D
The Swedish system probably has a system like the majority of the European systems in which you can get to med school either through a 6-year program straight from high school or a 4-year program designed for people with a bachelor's degree. The degree's official title would likely be MBBS (not MD. MD is a denomination used for US and Canadian medical schools). The 6-year program is probably something like a condensed 2-year bachelor program with a 4-year medicine program.
My prediction with TZain? This is retirement. As much as I want to see him do both, it's pretty much impossible. 1st year in the 4 year program is full-time for 10 of 12 months of the year, and generally encompasses anatomy, biochemistry, histology, bioethics, physiology, neurology, behavioural sciences, etc. for any non-system-based program, or GI, cardio, etc. for any system based program. Nobody knows how hard it is until they go through it. Nobody expects med school to be as hard as it actually is. Anatomy tore me a new butthole while biochem and histo dumped their load in said new butthole during my first 6 months of med school, with a followup from physiology and neurology tag-team action. That was the easier of the 2 basic sciences years.
The US medical system is this: Undergraduate degree MCAT Med school years 1/2 (Basic sciences) USMLE step 1 <-- This is the SECOND most important exam Med school year 3 (clinical) USMLE Step 2 CS/CK <-- THIS is the most important exam Med school year 4 (clinical) Graduate --> you are officially an MD at this point USMLE Step 3 (which can be taken any time after graduation, but must be completed before year 2 is over) <-- This is the most important exam in a med student's life if you didn't match OR if you want fellowship. Residency (minimum 3 years, in something like family medicine) Boards (taken at the end of residency) Licensure If you want to specialize, fellowships
Most systems have similar requirements, but in general you do need a lot of country-wide examinations.
If TZain is somehow godlike in medicine, the clinical years does give you a lot more leeway in terms of time to practice for SC2. Of course, like the first years before the clinical years, you can't really take days off to go off on a tournament or something silly like that. It's too bad though, Since he has always been my favourite foreign terran.
Its a wise decision by Thorzain, and I hope the best for you Marcus! I know you will do great at school and just keep yourself motivated. Best of luck!~
I know medical school works differently in Europe than it does in the US; where premed & medical school is essentially merged into one program (the reason why it is 5 1/2 years for him), but coming from someone who went to medical school... I think it's pretty insane to think he'll have substantial time for anything.
For me, it was literally 12 hours of studying a day, 6 days a week.
But maybe the first couple years won't be so bad (the "premed" years?).
I love to see players try and actually have a life outside of the game and make both work! Its going well for Polt, and it probably could have worked out well for Stephano too. Glad to see Thorzain giving it a go.
On August 15 2013 05:04 Kaitlin wrote: Actually, I was wrong about it being 3 years in the U.S. It's 4 years of Medical School, after the 4 years of undergraduate study. Of course, after medical school is another 3 years of "hands on" as an intern. Every step of the way is very restrictive (competitively and financially) and it's hardly something you can expect to complete, especially before having even started the process at all.
Actually, it goes something like this:
You're right that first you need an undergraduate degree (on top of a combination of research experience, volunteer experience, physician shadowing experience, acute patient care work experience, etc. etc.). Then you take your MCAT and apply to medical school. (You can do this during your senior year in undergrad, but many students take a year or 2 off to fill out their resume and become more competitive.)
After that, you're also right that medical school takes 4 years. 2 preclinical years and 2 years of clinical rotations. (Rotations are set in teaching hospitals where you get experience in different areas of medicine. These areas include pediatrics, OBGYN, emegency, etc. These rotations are all standard, but you also take elective rotations of your choice. At the end of each rotation, you get graded by the doctor you're working under/alongside.)
Once you get your degree, the first year as an actual doctor is considered your Internship year. In this year you're still going to be watched over very carefully but you'll obviously have much more responsibility. Note that you have to complete your Internship if you want to open a private practice or something like that. This year is mandatory (unless there are some exceptions I don't know about?).
The years after that, you are considered a Resident... but that's another story.
The main bottle neck is getting into medical school itself. There is zero bottleneck in becoming a "premed" student. And US medical schools actually have a very high matriculation rate (85%+). Meaning, once you get accepted, through the screening process, you probably have what it takes to graduate if you don't screw around. I'm saying that the screening process from premed to medical school is hyper competitive.
Anyone can declare themselves a "premed" student. That title actually means zero except among premed students (and impressing your friends & family). The only thing "premed" means (in the US) is that you intend to complete the prerequisite classes required for admittance into medical school during your time in college (no matter what your major is).
On August 15 2013 06:47 MrSexington wrote: The main bottle neck is getting into medical school itself. There is zero bottleneck in becoming a "premed" student. And US medical schools actually have a very high matriculation rate (85%+). Meaning, once you get accepted, through the screening process, you probably have what it takes to graduate if you don't screw around. The same goes for getting your medical degree to becoming an intern to becoming a resident. I'm not saying medical school is easy. I'm saying that the screening process from premed to medical school is hyper competitive.
Well.....residency is the second bottleneck....It's no longer reasonable to state that if you are a US med graduate, you automatically can get a residency (even if it's family med). But I agree with the assertions you made, nyan.
Whatever it is, I do hope to see ThorZain once in a while, nyan.
On August 15 2013 04:59 SpecialistSc wrote: I'm astounded at people thinking this is a win/win situation for thorzain. This is rather a lose-lose situation. If he wants to get far and successful in either field, it's inevitable to drop one. Same goes for suppy, he's spending time that he could have spent otherwise in research, volunteer, shadowing, into professional gaming. It's only a matter of time before thorzain quit competitive computer gaming completely. Only a logical option.
This is the death knell for his progaming career imo. I think he's just preparing now which is a lot smarter than dropping progaming (i.e. a salary, streaming revenue) cold turkey. If he plays part time there's a good chance that he'll still earn enough/save enough to make a significant dent in his student loans.
On August 14 2013 18:47 ramask2 wrote: One thing for sure, I have a much easier time picturing Thorzain as a doctor than I do Stephano!
Really? I don't. In terms of the social dynamic, stephano has a sort of natural arrogance, where as thorzain always gave me the impression he was still really socially awkward and afraid. I'm not insulting him, i'm that way also .
I rather trust a doctor that is a bit "socially akward" then one who sat in the drunk tank the last night from partying and throwing up.
On August 15 2013 04:59 SpecialistSc wrote: I'm astounded at people thinking this is a win/win situation for thorzain. This is rather a lose-lose situation. If he wants to get far and successful in either field, it's inevitable to drop one. Same goes for suppy, he's spending time that he could have spent otherwise in research, volunteer, shadowing, into professional gaming. It's only a matter of time before thorzain quit competitive computer gaming completely. Only a logical option.
This is the death knell for his progaming career imo. I think he's just preparing now which is a lot smarter than dropping progaming (i.e. a salary, streaming revenue) cold turkey. If he plays part time there's a good chance that he'll still earn enough/save enough to make a significant dent in his student loans.
Remember that we're talking about Swedish student loans here he's probably just playing part-time because he enjoys it.
On August 15 2013 04:59 SpecialistSc wrote: I'm astounded at people thinking this is a win/win situation for thorzain. This is rather a lose-lose situation. If he wants to get far and successful in either field, it's inevitable to drop one. Same goes for suppy, he's spending time that he could have spent otherwise in research, volunteer, shadowing, into professional gaming. It's only a matter of time before thorzain quit competitive computer gaming completely. Only a logical option.
This is the death knell for his progaming career imo. I think he's just preparing now which is a lot smarter than dropping progaming (i.e. a salary, streaming revenue) cold turkey. If he plays part time there's a good chance that he'll still earn enough/save enough to make a significant dent in his student loans.
Remember that we're talking about Swedish student loans here he's probably just playing part-time because he enjoys it.
On August 14 2013 18:47 ramask2 wrote: One thing for sure, I have a much easier time picturing Thorzain as a doctor than I do Stephano!
Really? I don't. In terms of the social dynamic, stephano has a sort of natural arrogance, where as thorzain always gave me the impression he was still really socially awkward and afraid. I'm not insulting him, i'm that way also .
I rather trust a doctor that is a bit "socially akward" then one who sat in the drunk tank the last night from partying and throwing up.
a) stephano ain't doin med school b) pretty sure if he did med school and became a doctor he would not be getting piss drunk and thrown in jail the night before doing a procedure
On August 15 2013 07:35 mjuuy wrote: What now EG? Ending SC2 team?
wow wow wow, well, I think he doesn't realize what it takes to go to med school. I really doubt he will have any spare time for SC2, even not in a professional level... so, this may as well be a goodbye for ever...
i think this is the best decision thorzain can make for himself. im happy he found his path. and im glad hes not giving up progaming to follow it. best of luck juggling the two of them. it wont be easy but your fans will deffinitely appreciate your dedication to your job as one of the best foreign terrans out there. best of luck <3
Thorzain said that he is gonna study for the next 6 years, but actually he needs to study for 12 years if he wanted to be psychiatric. To become psychiatric, you need to first go through licensiate of medicine and then get the specialization degree which takes another 6 years.
Pretty sure this has been said already, but to become a psychiatrist in Sweden: "Swedish High School" with special courses in Science and Mathematics -> -> 5½ years of study at a medical university -> -> 1½ years of internship at a hospital -> -> You got your medical degree! -> -> Another 5 years of working and part-time education and internships to get your specialization degree, for example psychiatrist
Good luck Thorzain and welcome to my town, I'll buy you a beer for beating MC =D
Önskar dig all lycka i världen, du kommer alltid vara vår kung i norr GLHF (Wish you all the luck in the world, you will always be our king in the north GLHF)
EPT
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cqbB4Is.png)
