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On August 14 2013 20:40 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 20:21 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 14 2013 20:20 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 20:14 NarutO wrote:On August 14 2013 20:11 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 20:09 NarutO wrote:On August 14 2013 20:04 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 19:55 lichter wrote:On August 14 2013 19:54 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 19:03 NarutO wrote:
[quote]
Would also be a great global finals if America was to send 5 players... imagine the outcry at the global finals when we have lots of series that are more onesided than ever. No one wants to see it. I want to see it. Watch WCG. Have fun! Who is participating in that tournament? Liquidpedia states nothing. Top 1 / 2 / 3 (depending on country) best of the country. The qualifiers are currently taking place. Do you have a link you could direct me too? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/World_Cyber_Games_2013/Qualifiers Very few players listed there. No explanations why certain players were chosen and where is Sweden? Norway? Any Nordic country? Seems to be a lot missing here.. (Turkey??? Japan?) Because WCG has become a joke in recent years... nobody cares about it. That's exactly the point we were making against region locking. I can also point you to enough tournaments without region lock which aren't exactly big.
But can you point to a gaming tournament with region lock that manages to do as well as WCS has?
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On August 14 2013 20:46 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 20:40 Sissors wrote:On August 14 2013 20:21 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 14 2013 20:20 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 20:14 NarutO wrote:On August 14 2013 20:11 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 20:09 NarutO wrote:On August 14 2013 20:04 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 19:55 lichter wrote:On August 14 2013 19:54 Ohforfsake wrote:
[quote]
I want to see it. Watch WCG. Have fun! Who is participating in that tournament? Liquidpedia states nothing. Top 1 / 2 / 3 (depending on country) best of the country. The qualifiers are currently taking place. Do you have a link you could direct me too? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/World_Cyber_Games_2013/Qualifiers Very few players listed there. No explanations why certain players were chosen and where is Sweden? Norway? Any Nordic country? Seems to be a lot missing here.. (Turkey??? Japan?) Because WCG has become a joke in recent years... nobody cares about it. That's exactly the point we were making against region locking. I can also point you to enough tournaments without region lock which aren't exactly big. But can you point to a gaming tournament with region lock that manages to do as well as WCS has?
Even tho you were right about the numbers (also found the teamliquid thread) I'll still point you to WCS Europe 2012. I had the highest numbers 2012 and it was region locked. There is no telling what numbers it would have 2013 if it was aired as all viewer numbers seems higher this year. Either way I'd say that tournament constitutes as proof and a good business case that tournaments with region locks (and therefore without the top players in the world) can be a huge success.
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I'm not in favor of region locking but am in favor of putting in a system that makes sure 1-2 Americans, 1-2 from China, and 3-4 from Europe are in the final event. Not sure if you do a separate mini wildcard tournament with only people from their region but you need to foster the opportunities.
Think about basketball around the world. When the US was dominating in the early 90s the Olympics didn't just give up on the sport. The US is still dominant but the rest of the world has caught up because events like the Olympics, and leagues around the world. I know it isn't a perfect comparison but the point is that if you don't give players hope/opportunity than you won't foster new talent.
Players like Gowser, Scarlet, Huk are certainly good enough to show competetive games, and win series. It would help viewership too.
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On August 14 2013 20:55 Ohforfsake wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 20:46 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 14 2013 20:40 Sissors wrote:On August 14 2013 20:21 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 14 2013 20:20 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 20:14 NarutO wrote:On August 14 2013 20:11 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 20:09 NarutO wrote:On August 14 2013 20:04 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 19:55 lichter wrote:
[quote]
Watch WCG. Have fun! Who is participating in that tournament? Liquidpedia states nothing. Top 1 / 2 / 3 (depending on country) best of the country. The qualifiers are currently taking place. Do you have a link you could direct me too? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/World_Cyber_Games_2013/Qualifiers Very few players listed there. No explanations why certain players were chosen and where is Sweden? Norway? Any Nordic country? Seems to be a lot missing here.. (Turkey??? Japan?) Because WCG has become a joke in recent years... nobody cares about it. That's exactly the point we were making against region locking. I can also point you to enough tournaments without region lock which aren't exactly big. But can you point to a gaming tournament with region lock that manages to do as well as WCS has? Even tho you were right about the numbers (also found the teamliquid thread) I'll still point you to WCS Europe 2012. I had the highest numbers 2012 and it was region locked. There is no telling what numbers it would have 2013 if it was aired as all viewer numbers seems higher this year. Either way I'd say that tournament constitutes as proof and a good business case that tournaments with region locks (and therefore without the top players in the world) can be a huge success.
It was the WCS grand final that hit those numbers, with Koreans in it. If you want to judge, you would need to judge on the qualifiers from France, Spain, Germany etc and I can guarantee, those qualifiers didn't hit what WCS hits.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On August 14 2013 20:55 Ohforfsake wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 20:46 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 14 2013 20:40 Sissors wrote:On August 14 2013 20:21 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 14 2013 20:20 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 20:14 NarutO wrote:On August 14 2013 20:11 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 20:09 NarutO wrote:On August 14 2013 20:04 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 19:55 lichter wrote:
[quote]
Watch WCG. Have fun! Who is participating in that tournament? Liquidpedia states nothing. Top 1 / 2 / 3 (depending on country) best of the country. The qualifiers are currently taking place. Do you have a link you could direct me too? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/World_Cyber_Games_2013/Qualifiers Very few players listed there. No explanations why certain players were chosen and where is Sweden? Norway? Any Nordic country? Seems to be a lot missing here.. (Turkey??? Japan?) Because WCG has become a joke in recent years... nobody cares about it. That's exactly the point we were making against region locking. I can also point you to enough tournaments without region lock which aren't exactly big. But can you point to a gaming tournament with region lock that manages to do as well as WCS has? Even tho you were right about the numbers (also found the teamliquid thread) I'll still point you to WCS Europe 2012. I had the highest numbers 2012 and it was region locked. There is no telling what numbers it would have 2013 if it was aired as all viewer numbers seems higher this year. Either way I'd say that tournament constitutes as proof and a good business case that tournaments with region locks (and therefore without the top players in the world) can be a huge success.
It's the highest stream numbers for 2012 that we are definitively aware of. Undoubtedly some of the Korean tournaments had more viewers since we only know English twitch.tv viewers and not Gomplayer, TV, Korean streams, etc. It's common knowledge that no foreign tournament has matched those numbers, even though we don't know the exact figures.
Yes it is possible to be successful, but that's not what WCS is meant to be.
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What's the difference between the koreans dominating every foreigner at the global finals or them dominating every foreigner at the regionals?
I don't really see why people advocate the latter while condemning the former.
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On August 14 2013 20:46 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 20:40 Sissors wrote:On August 14 2013 20:21 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 14 2013 20:20 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 20:14 NarutO wrote:On August 14 2013 20:11 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 20:09 NarutO wrote:On August 14 2013 20:04 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 19:55 lichter wrote:On August 14 2013 19:54 Ohforfsake wrote:
[quote]
I want to see it. Watch WCG. Have fun! Who is participating in that tournament? Liquidpedia states nothing. Top 1 / 2 / 3 (depending on country) best of the country. The qualifiers are currently taking place. Do you have a link you could direct me too? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/World_Cyber_Games_2013/Qualifiers Very few players listed there. No explanations why certain players were chosen and where is Sweden? Norway? Any Nordic country? Seems to be a lot missing here.. (Turkey??? Japan?) Because WCG has become a joke in recent years... nobody cares about it. That's exactly the point we were making against region locking. I can also point you to enough tournaments without region lock which aren't exactly big. But can you point to a gaming tournament with region lock that manages to do as well as WCS has?
LCS
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Russian Federation125 Posts
yeh american wcs has more koreans so american region is stronger than europe...
rofl
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Yes it is possible to be successful, but that's not what WCS is meant to be.
Say what? WCS isn't ment to be successful? That explains A LOT.
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On August 14 2013 20:46 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 20:40 Sissors wrote:On August 14 2013 20:21 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 14 2013 20:20 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 20:14 NarutO wrote:On August 14 2013 20:11 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 20:09 NarutO wrote:On August 14 2013 20:04 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 19:55 lichter wrote:On August 14 2013 19:54 Ohforfsake wrote:
[quote]
I want to see it. Watch WCG. Have fun! Who is participating in that tournament? Liquidpedia states nothing. Top 1 / 2 / 3 (depending on country) best of the country. The qualifiers are currently taking place. Do you have a link you could direct me too? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/World_Cyber_Games_2013/Qualifiers Very few players listed there. No explanations why certain players were chosen and where is Sweden? Norway? Any Nordic country? Seems to be a lot missing here.. (Turkey??? Japan?) Because WCG has become a joke in recent years... nobody cares about it. That's exactly the point we were making against region locking. I can also point you to enough tournaments without region lock which aren't exactly big. But can you point to a gaming tournament with region lock that manages to do as well as WCS has?
WCS Europe last year.
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On August 14 2013 20:57 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 20:55 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 20:46 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 14 2013 20:40 Sissors wrote:On August 14 2013 20:21 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 14 2013 20:20 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 20:14 NarutO wrote:On August 14 2013 20:11 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 20:09 NarutO wrote:On August 14 2013 20:04 Ohforfsake wrote:
[quote]
Who is participating in that tournament? Liquidpedia states nothing. Top 1 / 2 / 3 (depending on country) best of the country. The qualifiers are currently taking place. Do you have a link you could direct me too? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/World_Cyber_Games_2013/Qualifiers Very few players listed there. No explanations why certain players were chosen and where is Sweden? Norway? Any Nordic country? Seems to be a lot missing here.. (Turkey??? Japan?) Because WCG has become a joke in recent years... nobody cares about it. That's exactly the point we were making against region locking. I can also point you to enough tournaments without region lock which aren't exactly big. But can you point to a gaming tournament with region lock that manages to do as well as WCS has? Even tho you were right about the numbers (also found the teamliquid thread) I'll still point you to WCS Europe 2012. I had the highest numbers 2012 and it was region locked. There is no telling what numbers it would have 2013 if it was aired as all viewer numbers seems higher this year. Either way I'd say that tournament constitutes as proof and a good business case that tournaments with region locks (and therefore without the top players in the world) can be a huge success. It was the WCS grand final that hit those numbers, with Koreans in it. If you want to judge, you would need to judge on the qualifiers from France, Spain, Germany etc and I can guarantee, those qualifiers didn't hit what WCS hits.
No it was EU that hit those numbers. The grand finals was a flop.
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On August 14 2013 21:01 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 20:46 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 14 2013 20:40 Sissors wrote:On August 14 2013 20:21 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 14 2013 20:20 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 20:14 NarutO wrote:On August 14 2013 20:11 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 20:09 NarutO wrote:On August 14 2013 20:04 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 19:55 lichter wrote:
[quote]
Watch WCG. Have fun! Who is participating in that tournament? Liquidpedia states nothing. Top 1 / 2 / 3 (depending on country) best of the country. The qualifiers are currently taking place. Do you have a link you could direct me too? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/World_Cyber_Games_2013/Qualifiers Very few players listed there. No explanations why certain players were chosen and where is Sweden? Norway? Any Nordic country? Seems to be a lot missing here.. (Turkey??? Japan?) Because WCG has become a joke in recent years... nobody cares about it. That's exactly the point we were making against region locking. I can also point you to enough tournaments without region lock which aren't exactly big. But can you point to a gaming tournament with region lock that manages to do as well as WCS has? LCS
See, iNcontroL brought up a fantastic point last night on ITG. People like to point at LoL's viewer numbers and go "urgh see that? sc2 ded". But what they don't actually realize is that they're looking at a game that has what, 10-20 times the playerbase? Maybe even more? I'm sure someone can do the math if they so desire, but a rough estimate will do. When you take this fact into account, it makes the discrepancy seem a lot smaller.
Now I haven't seen any estimates on LCS' viewership, or maybe Riot releases exact numbers, I don't know, but I highly doubt that their regional finals pull in anywhere near 10-20 times the viewership that WCS did.
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On August 14 2013 21:07 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 21:01 kollin wrote:On August 14 2013 20:46 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 14 2013 20:40 Sissors wrote:On August 14 2013 20:21 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 14 2013 20:20 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 20:14 NarutO wrote:On August 14 2013 20:11 Ohforfsake wrote:On August 14 2013 20:09 NarutO wrote:On August 14 2013 20:04 Ohforfsake wrote:
[quote]
Who is participating in that tournament? Liquidpedia states nothing. Top 1 / 2 / 3 (depending on country) best of the country. The qualifiers are currently taking place. Do you have a link you could direct me too? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/World_Cyber_Games_2013/Qualifiers Very few players listed there. No explanations why certain players were chosen and where is Sweden? Norway? Any Nordic country? Seems to be a lot missing here.. (Turkey??? Japan?) Because WCG has become a joke in recent years... nobody cares about it. That's exactly the point we were making against region locking. I can also point you to enough tournaments without region lock which aren't exactly big. But can you point to a gaming tournament with region lock that manages to do as well as WCS has? LCS See, iNcontroL brought up a fantastic point last night on ITG. People like to point at LoL's viewer numbers and go "urgh see that? sc2 ded". But what they don't actually realize is that they're looking at a game that has what, 10-20 times the playerbase? Maybe even more? I'm sure someone can do the math if they so desire, but a rough estimate will do. When you take this fact into account, it makes the discrepancy seem a lot smaller. Now I haven't seen any estimates on LCS' viewership, or maybe Riot releases exact numbers, I don't know, but I highly doubt that their regional finals pull in anywhere near 10-20 times the viewership that WCS did.
You also can't really draw a direct correlation between playerbase and viewership. Expecting 10-20 times the numbers is unfair
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On August 14 2013 21:11 rearee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 21:07 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 14 2013 21:01 kollin wrote:On August 14 2013 20:46 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 14 2013 20:40 Sissors wrote:On August 14 2013 20:21 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 14 2013 20:20 Ohforfsake wrote:Very few players listed there. No explanations why certain players were chosen and where is Sweden? Norway? Any Nordic country? Seems to be a lot missing here.. (Turkey??? Japan?) Because WCG has become a joke in recent years... nobody cares about it. That's exactly the point we were making against region locking. I can also point you to enough tournaments without region lock which aren't exactly big. But can you point to a gaming tournament with region lock that manages to do as well as WCS has? LCS See, iNcontroL brought up a fantastic point last night on ITG. People like to point at LoL's viewer numbers and go "urgh see that? sc2 ded". But what they don't actually realize is that they're looking at a game that has what, 10-20 times the playerbase? Maybe even more? I'm sure someone can do the math if they so desire, but a rough estimate will do. When you take this fact into account, it makes the discrepancy seem a lot smaller. Now I haven't seen any estimates on LCS' viewership, or maybe Riot releases exact numbers, I don't know, but I highly doubt that their regional finals pull in anywhere near 10-20 times the viewership that WCS did. You also can't really draw a direct correlation between playerbase and viewership. Expecting 10-20 times the numbers is unfair
And why exactly is that?
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On August 14 2013 20:59 rearee wrote:
What's the difference between the koreans dominating every foreigner at the global finals or them dominating every foreigner at the regionals?
I don't really see why people advocate the latter while condemning the former.
I want to see who is the best player in Europe tho. If you want to have an explanation for that you will have to dig into sports psychology. It's easier to root for your hometown team than someone on the other side of the earth (literally).
If I wanna know who's the best korean I'll watch GSL or the world finals and get the answer. I do not understand why there is a need for more tournaments than those two to determine who's the best korean.
Now here's the counter question. Why do you have something against a European tournament with just europeans? Or American tournament with just americans? You can watch GSL and the world finals to see your koreans at any time while the rest of us watch our regional tournaments. (If we just had any)
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On August 14 2013 21:12 Ohforfsake wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 20:59 rearee wrote:
What's the difference between the koreans dominating every foreigner at the global finals or them dominating every foreigner at the regionals?
I don't really see why people advocate the latter while condemning the former. I want to see who is the best player in Europe tho. If you want to have an explanation for that you will have to dig into sports psychology. It's easier to root for your hometown team than someone on the other side of the earth (literally). If I wanna know who's the best korean I'll watch GSL or the world finals and get the answer. I do not understand why there is a need for more tournaments than those two to determine who's the best korean. Now here's the counter question. Why do you have something against a European tournament with just europeans? Or American tournament with just americans? You can watch GSL and the world finals to see your koreans at any time while the rest of us watch our regional tournaments. (If we just had any)
(We're on the same side)
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Because people want to see how "we" do against the best of the best
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WCS regions should be locked to nationality in my opinion,
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On August 14 2013 21:12 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 21:11 rearee wrote:On August 14 2013 21:07 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 14 2013 21:01 kollin wrote:On August 14 2013 20:46 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 14 2013 20:40 Sissors wrote:On August 14 2013 20:21 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On August 14 2013 20:20 Ohforfsake wrote:Very few players listed there. No explanations why certain players were chosen and where is Sweden? Norway? Any Nordic country? Seems to be a lot missing here.. (Turkey??? Japan?) Because WCG has become a joke in recent years... nobody cares about it. That's exactly the point we were making against region locking. I can also point you to enough tournaments without region lock which aren't exactly big. But can you point to a gaming tournament with region lock that manages to do as well as WCS has? LCS See, iNcontroL brought up a fantastic point last night on ITG. People like to point at LoL's viewer numbers and go "urgh see that? sc2 ded". But what they don't actually realize is that they're looking at a game that has what, 10-20 times the playerbase? Maybe even more? I'm sure someone can do the math if they so desire, but a rough estimate will do. When you take this fact into account, it makes the discrepancy seem a lot smaller. Now I haven't seen any estimates on LCS' viewership, or maybe Riot releases exact numbers, I don't know, but I highly doubt that their regional finals pull in anywhere near 10-20 times the viewership that WCS did. You also can't really draw a direct correlation between playerbase and viewership. Expecting 10-20 times the numbers is unfair And why exactly is that?
WoW has a bigger playerbase than LoL and has a smaller viewership
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Russian Federation40186 Posts
On August 14 2013 21:25 [STXSoul]INnoVation wrote:
WCS regions should be locked to nationality in my opinion,
Not sure if i should laugh or not.
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EPT
