EPT
SC2 Power Rank - August 2013 - Page 14
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
theMagus
578 Posts
| ||
|
Kasaraki
Denmark7115 Posts
| ||
|
theMagus
578 Posts
On August 09 2013 19:30 Kasaraki wrote: I like this power rank, glad to see Flash finally getting punished for his actual gameplay and results instead of getting a somewhat undeserved high PR based purely on proleague and hype. yeah, cause losing 4 games to innovation and bomber is much more meaningful than maintaining his #1 ranking in proleague in the course of an entire season. i agree with you however, this is august power ranking and flash didn't really have enough chances to show results so it's understandable, kind of  | ||
|
boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
| ||
|
RKC
2848 Posts
On August 09 2013 19:01 Big J wrote: well, but previously Innovation was such an easy pick for #1 because he was arguably the best TvZ, TvT and TvP player around. He now got destroyed in 2 TvTs (Bomber and Maru), and a lot of Terrans have caught up to his TvZ. And we have seen little of his TvP this month. It may not be enough to dethrone him, yet, the situation for him is getting quite dire. Yes, agreed. Inno is still No. 1, but only barely. In June, he was miles ahead of everyone. In July, his lead has been cut down tremendously. Nevertheless, he's still up there - for now. I think May's PR was even more controversial - SK beating Inno in WCS Korea, yet can't dethrone Inno in PR. Certainly SK back then had a greater claim to No. 1 than Maru now. Maru or Rain winning tomorrow will be a big lift for himself. Then again, there's still the WCS Global Finals (does it all take place in August?), which gives Inno and others the chance to catch up. | ||
|
Krogan
Sweden375 Posts
| ||
|
xAdra
Singapore1858 Posts
On August 09 2013 15:37 BronzeKnee wrote: He also argues that Innovation is better than Maru... Some people can't see past their own bias. I can't believe no one called this guy out for his own bias yet. It's making my head hurt. It's anti-innovation bias. No matter how you put it, I am completely bamboozled, and in your own words "literally disgusted" (as opposed to what? figuratively disgusted?) at how badly you want to renounce innovation's no.1, just because he got "smashed" (you use this word 5-10 times in this thread) in one series that wasn't even close. You wanna know what else is in the criteria for ranking, besides recent results? They're right at the top of the article Difficulty of opponents: Let's put it this way: if the PR existed last year, we probably wouldn't have given PartinG the #1 spot for his BWC run. Quality of play: How impressed were we with this player's performance, especially over the last month? Summary, not a predictor: The PR is a rating based on previous results, not a scouting report for who will do well in the future. We can't believe this is not completely obvious. As others have said before, Innovation has faced Rain, Soulkey and many others, coming on top, while Maru is not yet tested against these guys. He also spent the month leading his team to the finals of the proleague, which you "disgustingly" disregard as just a "team game". Now for quality of play. Maru used cheese. Not taking away anything from cheese, but really, it was cheese. The cheese paid off. Now look at how Innovation played all of his other games. Strong, jaw-dropingly powerful macro games. Not losing a macro PvT in 4 months. Does being 50% at a matchup, a mirror even (most easily cheesable matchup for all 3 races) while being 89% at TvZ and 70+% at TvP make you better than the guy who smartly cheesed you out of a semifinal? I think not. I am not even Innovation biased, since I exclusively support Protoss players. I even like Maru, and half of me wants him to win the OSL final to get the title of Optimus Prime. I just seriously have no idea how your logic of valuing head-to-head so highly over overall performance works. Then again, if it's your opinion, then I accept your opinion; however you should also accept the opinion of the TL writers, instead of denouncing it as "innovation bias". | ||
|
FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On August 09 2013 20:24 boxerfred wrote: So sOs won over flash, whoa. That justifies him to be in the top10? and his "solid" appearance vs. lesser opponents? pfff Well, they're comparable in SPL stats (slight advantage to Flash there), Flash made it a little further than sOs but still wasn't so hot in the OSL, and both stomped their way back into code S after falling out. BUT, there is a bit of weight also given to past results in HotS and sOs kills Flash there. Flash still doesn't even have a first place to his name in sc2 yet, nor has he gone past a ro16. sOs won something, almost made the finals in WCS season 1, and DID make the finals of the following regional. So yeah, it does justify him in the top 10. | ||
|
Gben592
United Kingdom281 Posts
| ||
|
tozi
United States506 Posts
He lost 0-4 vs Maru and defeated two very much lesser KT players in proleague. | ||
|
Sejanus
Lithuania550 Posts
#2 Flash (+2), a champion of MLG, Dreamhack, GSL, Asus ROG and Mauritania Cup this month. #1 Innovation. (+- 0, same as in previous PR). Yes, he lost almost every official game he played this month, but mostly due to small mistakes in the end. Every game it looked like he played in such a dominating fashion, if not those small mistakes by the end. Also did you know he qualified for Major Extreme Hwaiting (MEH) tournament with 2:1 over QueenE? Only dropping a game to cheese? | ||
|
polpot
3002 Posts
| ||
|
Gben592
United Kingdom281 Posts
On August 09 2013 15:28 BronzeKnee wrote: Frankly, I just find it disgusting and disrespectful to Maru that people would say "Hey great work, you smashed Innovation the best player in the world, your now #4!" and say to Innovation "Hey good try, no worries bud you're still #1!" No other Power Rank in any other sport works like this. The Patriots were ranked #1 after they upset the Rams in 2001, despite the Rams being heavily favored and having recently won another Superbowl. It wasn't like their game was a group stage game, there was 4 players left, and both of these guys went through incredible competition, and to say that somehow Innovation is better is to completely ignore the results of a best of seven series. Sweet he won a bunch of SPL matches and did well in WCG... seriously that is great, but a lot of other, lesser players did the same thing in July. Those results in SPL and WCG aren't enough alone to keep someone at #1, especially when they drop a huge series 0-4 against an opponent they were favored, and end the month going a mediocre 7-6 in the OSL. Trap performed better in the playoffs for STX statistically he never dropped a game. Innovation dropped a game to BeSt. Finally, I'd like to say, that Innovation can't have it both ways. You can't say "Innovation is better than Maru because of his SPL wins, and his OSL loss is excusable because of his SPL wins." He can't both get an excuse for his OSL loss because he was preparing for SPL, but then get all this credit for wins in SPL. It is one or the other. The fact Innovation split his time is his own fault, and if it negatively affects his play, than that is his problem. This is also why a ton of games and big win percentage shouldn't be the be all end all for the Power Rank. The entire game isn't TvT, and no, no it isn't his fault, and yes, it should be taken into account. Performing well, over a range of tournaments and stuff, over a range of time, in different matchups... that's what makes someone no. 1 Innovation may have dropped a game against BeSt, but Maru lost a Bo3 to zest 0-2 (Inno is also coming up against zest soon, in the WCG qualifiers, so we shall see...) | ||
|
1handsomE
United States199 Posts
| ||
|
Neemi
Netherlands656 Posts
On August 09 2013 23:52 Gben592 wrote: The entire game isn't TvT, and no, no it isn't his fault, and yes, it should be taken into account. Performing well, over a range of tournaments and stuff, over a range of time, in different matchups... that's what makes someone no. 1 Innovation may have dropped a game against BeSt, but Maru lost a Bo3 to zest 0-2 (Inno is also coming up against zest soon, in the WCG qualifiers, so we shall see...) And to add to this ^ Even if Maru and Innovation performed similarly well this month, did you just forget every month that came before? Innovation got 2nd at WCS KR Season 1, won Season finals, won every game but one in PL, 3rd/4th at WCS KR Season 2, still in WCG KR, compared to Maru who will "only" be 1st or 2nd at WCS KR. This is an incredible accomplishment, but just look back at the old BW Power Ranks. Maru wasn't even a CBNC in the power rank before this one, yet you immediately want him to be #1 this month? As far as I know this has never happened. Even more extreme: Flash was first & Jaedong second before an MSL final which Jaedong won 3-1 in January 2010, and STILL Flash was #1 based on his play. Soulkey also beat Innovation 4-3 while playing pretty amazing for a while and even then he was only #2. Doing very well in 1 (and only one) tournament so far this year isn't enough to justify him being the best player of the world when people like Soulkey, Innovation & Rain have been performing and playing well for a while now. Also, let's look at Aligulac: Maru: 15-8 Soulkey: 15-8 (but had a much higher rank coming into this) Rain: 21-13 Innovation: 29-11 The only one whose win/lose ratio is worse is Rain, the other OSL-finalist also coming in with a way higher ranking. The ranking is volatile enough as it is (Flash crashing out after being #4 for losing to Innovation & Bomber), and now you want to give #1 for winning ONE boX against Innovation to someone who wasn't even in there last time? It's not disrespectful, it's giving credit for general consistency where it's due which Maru still has to build up. If he wins WCS KR and the season finals, I'm happy with him being #1. | ||
|
Like a Boss
502 Posts
| ||
|
awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
| ||
|
LittleRedBoy
United States229 Posts
| ||
|
StarStruck
25339 Posts
On August 09 2013 20:03 theMagus wrote: yeah, cause losing 4 games to innovation and bomber is much more meaningful than maintaining his #1 ranking in proleague in the course of an entire season. i agree with you however, this is august power ranking and flash didn't really have enough chances to show results so it's understandable, kind of Got to love selective reasoning. ;o | ||
|
Ammanas
Slovakia2166 Posts
On August 10 2013 05:01 LittleRedBoy wrote: Barring a complete collapse of either Maru or Rain in the finals, I think that most people here would be forced to concede that the winner deserves the #1 spot over Innovation. Why would someone deserve #1 spot in July for a result that happens in mid August? O_o | ||
| ||
