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On July 23 2013 09:22 rift wrote:http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/kespa's media arm - top of site has LGIM, MVP logos next to the rest of the Kespa sc2 teams
That makes sense. There is no reason for them not to join. They are good enough by far.
When it comes to EG-TL, they have the sponsorship, they just don't have the raw talent just yet to dominate. If they continue playing, they will though, that is for sure. It's only a matter of time considering they are a huge name in the foreign scene and are a solid team in proleague even if they didn't make it to the playoffs.
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As far as how much money is alotted towards each team, the ultimate goal for corporations in sponsoring starcraft 2 professional teams is advertisement. Instead of traditional advertising such as tv commercials and billboard ads, these companies instead opt to use an alternate avenue to spread the word about their companies + product lines.
So really, the amount of money that companies will choose to spend on sc2 is dependent on how much they estimate the value of these teams to be in terms of alternate forms of advertisement.
On July 23 2013 04:16 DamageControL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 04:08 Glorfindel! wrote:
I must say the OP seem to be a lot of "theory crafting" regarding the economic situation.
I dont want to go into details of any of the mentioned teams. But I dont see any sources that actually shows the economical situation for the teams mentioned.
Sure they are sponsored by rich companies. However there is no sources of how much they are actually provided and therefore claiming that "those teams can afford this and that" is not reliable what so ever. Inside sources on allocation would obviously be helpful but I'm not an eSports insider so I don't have them. I don't know whether I've addressed that in the OP (I'm wrote this at work while waiting for turnaround on the report), but the point you bring up is good and definitely a viable counter-argument. My general claim is that a richer company probably can afford to budget more for their SC2 team. I think this is generally true--when a company as large as CJ, Samsung etc. has picked a team up they usually don't go under and usually don't have the same obvious money struggles as teams sponsored by smaller companies. While there is probably not much of a difference between 15 and 25 billion in company budgeting, a company like Razer, that has so many sponsorships going and brings in a relatively small amount of money is unlikely to be able to give any one of its teams such heavy support.
15 and 25 billion is a HUGE difference man. 15 billion is a medium sized company while 25 billion is a large sized company.
Financing for things such as sc2 teams from large corporations (which makes 10s of millions to quarter billionsof dollars in net profit) is mostly going to be impacted by cash flow of these companies and what they choose to alot their cash too (sc2 teams which falls under advertising, research and development, and product and manufacturing).
Samsung spent 4.6 billion USD in global advertising in the financial year of 2012. Only a fraction, maybe around .1% is going to be spent esports.
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Haha there is a big difference between LG-IM and other Kespa corporate teams. These giant coporates that actually own the fucking teams (like SK telecom being the owner of T1 etc) and LG-IM is a team owned by an individual... There is a massive difference in terms of financial support, training enviroment, salaries etc.
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I hope EG-TL doesn't drop out of the proleague, it was always fun to root for the underdogs and watch them make that crazy comeback after Coach Park joined.
With that being said, I'd also love to see either LG-IM or MVP in Proleague, although I don't know if that'll happen with the GSTL/SPL divide. Would it be possible for a team to compete in both SPL and GSTL? Doubtful, but it'd be pretty awesome to see them try.
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On July 23 2013 04:03 juicyjames wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 03:58 Emzeeshady wrote:
I would love to see a combined SPL/GSTL league
If IM left GSTL then GSTL just wouldn't be the same...
Imagine the hype there would be though if LGIM was taking on KT in the grand finals of SPL :O If nothing else, I hope that we could have a fun showmatch between the winner of GSTL (LG-IM) and winner of SPL (STX or Woongjin). Play SPL format first, GSTL format second, then ace match if necessary!
Damn, this is a great idea. I'm totally down for this.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On July 23 2013 04:03 juicyjames wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 03:58 Emzeeshady wrote:
I would love to see a combined SPL/GSTL league
If IM left GSTL then GSTL just wouldn't be the same...
Imagine the hype there would be though if LGIM was taking on KT in the grand finals of SPL :O If nothing else, I hope that we could have a fun showmatch between the winner of GSTL (LG-IM) and winner of SPL (STX or Woongjin). Play SPL format first, GSTL format second, then ace match if necessary!
FXO was supposed to play CJ last year but CJ pulled out last minute
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
On July 23 2013 10:06 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 04:03 juicyjames wrote:On July 23 2013 03:58 Emzeeshady wrote:
I would love to see a combined SPL/GSTL league
If IM left GSTL then GSTL just wouldn't be the same...
Imagine the hype there would be though if LGIM was taking on KT in the grand finals of SPL :O If nothing else, I hope that we could have a fun showmatch between the winner of GSTL (LG-IM) and winner of SPL (STX or Woongjin). Play SPL format first, GSTL format second, then ace match if necessary! FXO was supposed to play CJ last year but CJ pulled out last minute
Damn!
On July 23 2013 09:22 rift wrote:http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/kespa's media arm - top of site has LGIM, MVP logos next to the rest of the Kespa sc2 teams
If LG-IM did join KeSPA, then it'll increase the chances we can get an LG-IM vs SPL Winner showmatch! Make it happen, KeSPA/OGN!
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On July 23 2013 09:40 Race is Terran wrote:As far as how much money is alotted towards each team, the ultimate goal for corporations in sponsoring starcraft 2 professional teams is advertisement. Instead of traditional advertising such as tv commercials and billboard ads, these companies instead opt to use an alternate avenue to spread the word about their companies + product lines. So really, the amount of money that companies will choose to spend on sc2 is dependent on how much they estimate the value of these teams to be in terms of alternate forms of advertisement. Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 04:16 DamageControL wrote:On July 23 2013 04:08 Glorfindel! wrote:
I must say the OP seem to be a lot of "theory crafting" regarding the economic situation.
I dont want to go into details of any of the mentioned teams. But I dont see any sources that actually shows the economical situation for the teams mentioned.
Sure they are sponsored by rich companies. However there is no sources of how much they are actually provided and therefore claiming that "those teams can afford this and that" is not reliable what so ever. Inside sources on allocation would obviously be helpful but I'm not an eSports insider so I don't have them. I don't know whether I've addressed that in the OP (I'm wrote this at work while waiting for turnaround on the report), but the point you bring up is good and definitely a viable counter-argument. My general claim is that a richer company probably can afford to budget more for their SC2 team. I think this is generally true--when a company as large as CJ, Samsung etc. has picked a team up they usually don't go under and usually don't have the same obvious money struggles as teams sponsored by smaller companies. While there is probably not much of a difference between 15 and 25 billion in company budgeting, a company like Razer, that has so many sponsorships going and brings in a relatively small amount of money is unlikely to be able to give any one of its teams such heavy support. 15 and 25 billion is a HUGE difference man. 15 billion is a medium sized company while 25 billion is a large sized company. Financing for things such as sc2 teams from large corporations (which makes 10s of millions to quarter billionsof dollars in net profit) is mostly going to be impacted by cash flow of these companies and what they choose to alot their cash too (sc2 teams which falls under advertising, research and development, and product and manufacturing). Samsung spent 4.6 billion USD in global advertising in the financial year of 2012. Only a fraction, maybe around .1% is going to be spent esports.
I agree that it's a large difference but I'm not sure how huge a difference it makes in finance.
One thing worth noting is that Samsung (as brought up by another user) is probably funded by a subsidiary instead of by the company at large (similar to how T1 is funded by SKT instead of the SK Group). The SK group is not that much smaller than Samsung (well significantly smaller but still unbelievably huge)
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On July 23 2013 10:14 DamageControL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 09:40 Race is Terran wrote:As far as how much money is alotted towards each team, the ultimate goal for corporations in sponsoring starcraft 2 professional teams is advertisement. Instead of traditional advertising such as tv commercials and billboard ads, these companies instead opt to use an alternate avenue to spread the word about their companies + product lines. So really, the amount of money that companies will choose to spend on sc2 is dependent on how much they estimate the value of these teams to be in terms of alternate forms of advertisement. On July 23 2013 04:16 DamageControL wrote:On July 23 2013 04:08 Glorfindel! wrote:
I must say the OP seem to be a lot of "theory crafting" regarding the economic situation.
I dont want to go into details of any of the mentioned teams. But I dont see any sources that actually shows the economical situation for the teams mentioned.
Sure they are sponsored by rich companies. However there is no sources of how much they are actually provided and therefore claiming that "those teams can afford this and that" is not reliable what so ever. Inside sources on allocation would obviously be helpful but I'm not an eSports insider so I don't have them. I don't know whether I've addressed that in the OP (I'm wrote this at work while waiting for turnaround on the report), but the point you bring up is good and definitely a viable counter-argument. My general claim is that a richer company probably can afford to budget more for their SC2 team. I think this is generally true--when a company as large as CJ, Samsung etc. has picked a team up they usually don't go under and usually don't have the same obvious money struggles as teams sponsored by smaller companies. While there is probably not much of a difference between 15 and 25 billion in company budgeting, a company like Razer, that has so many sponsorships going and brings in a relatively small amount of money is unlikely to be able to give any one of its teams such heavy support. 15 and 25 billion is a HUGE difference man. 15 billion is a medium sized company while 25 billion is a large sized company. Financing for things such as sc2 teams from large corporations (which makes 10s of millions to quarter billionsof dollars in net profit) is mostly going to be impacted by cash flow of these companies and what they choose to alot their cash too (sc2 teams which falls under advertising, research and development, and product and manufacturing). Samsung spent 4.6 billion USD in global advertising in the financial year of 2012. Only a fraction, maybe around .1% is going to be spent esports. I agree that it's a large difference but I'm not sure how huge a difference it makes in finance. One thing worth noting is that Samsung (as brought up by another user) is probably funded by a subsidiary instead of by the company at large (similar to how T1 is funded by SKT instead of the SK Group). The SK group is not that much smaller than Samsung (well significantly smaller but still unbelievably huge)
the only difference that would make really is who the money goes through before it gets to the sc2 players, not how much is given
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On July 23 2013 09:22 rift wrote:http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/kespa's media arm - top of site has LGIM, MVP logos next to the rest of the Kespa sc2 teams
Damn, really nice find! That would be so awesome.
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Guess it's confirmed with MVP and LGIM. I wonder if this means GSTL is going to go out, or if they're in the talks of combining the two.. :/
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On July 23 2013 18:24 Blisse wrote:
Guess it's confirmed with MVP and LGIM. I wonder if this means GSTL is going to go out, or if they're in the talks of combining the two.. :/
They need to be combined. I don't think 8 teams is enough anyway.
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Just because a company makes huge amounts of revenue doesn't mean they have huge amounts to spend on e-sports.
Advertising budget/market cycles etc all come into play with funding things like esports. It would be great if the biggest companies in the world supplied sponsorship dollars of large quantities to esports, but for them to do that it has to be worth it.
Spending extra money on proleague, given the numbers that I have seen for the proleague streams would be relatively dumb in my opinion. Although, I have never controlled such large sums of money (lets say 20 million ad budget) I still think that someone in such a high position would be hesitant to spend a large portion of that on esports, starcraft 2 especially, given the numbers that are currently being pumped out by proleague. Infact, they would probably gain more out of GSTL right now (today).
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On July 23 2013 19:55 FXOBoSs wrote:
Just because a company makes huge amounts of revenue doesn't mean they have huge amounts to spend on e-sports.
Advertising budget/market cycles etc all come into play with funding things like esports. It would be great if the biggest companies in the world supplied sponsorship dollars of large quantities to esports, but for them to do that it has to be worth it.
Spending extra money on proleague, given the numbers that I have seen for the proleague streams would be relatively dumb in my opinion. Although, I have never controlled such large sums of money (lets say 20 million ad budget) I still think that someone in such a high position would be hesitant to spend a large portion of that on esports, starcraft 2 especially, given the numbers that are currently being pumped out by proleague. Infact, they would probably gain more out of GSTL right now (today).
I assume that is for a foreign market? I highly doubt gstl gets more viewers than pl in korea. So I'm assuming that means that at least FXO will stay in gstl?
TBH right now I feel like instead of a merger we will see gstl teams leaving one after another and the league becoming worse every season, just imagine how shity next season would be without the top 2 teams (lgim/mvp).
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WHAT IF....
LG-IM and MVP merged to play in proleague as LG-IMMVP? Then Mvp would finally (kinda) be in team MVP and everybody's OCD would rapidly become unrustled.
Best possible move for the scene at large IMHO
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On July 23 2013 20:02 Lorch wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 19:55 FXOBoSs wrote:
Just because a company makes huge amounts of revenue doesn't mean they have huge amounts to spend on e-sports.
Advertising budget/market cycles etc all come into play with funding things like esports. It would be great if the biggest companies in the world supplied sponsorship dollars of large quantities to esports, but for them to do that it has to be worth it.
Spending extra money on proleague, given the numbers that I have seen for the proleague streams would be relatively dumb in my opinion. Although, I have never controlled such large sums of money (lets say 20 million ad budget) I still think that someone in such a high position would be hesitant to spend a large portion of that on esports, starcraft 2 especially, given the numbers that are currently being pumped out by proleague. Infact, they would probably gain more out of GSTL right now (today).
I assume that is for a foreign market? I highly doubt gstl gets more viewers than pl in korea. So I'm assuming that means that at least FXO will stay in gstl? TBH right now I feel like instead of a merger we will see gstl teams leaving one after another and the league becoming worse every season, just imagine how shity next season would be without the top 2 teams (lgim/mvp).
I have 0 to do with FXO nowadays. But knowing choya I'd assume they wouldnt give in to kespa control. If proleague were to be without kespa control they would play. I am not sure how LGIM feel, but ESF in general a quite anti kespa at least in terms of how they talk. If GSTL died then there would be no other option.
Is proleague even on television now? For some reason I thought only one or two games per round were on TV and the rest streamed? GOM has pretty good korean numbers too. I still feel that GSTL would be a better option. But I would recommend GSTL change to a mixed format for the fans.
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On July 23 2013 20:29 FXOBoSs wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:02 Lorch wrote:On July 23 2013 19:55 FXOBoSs wrote:
Just because a company makes huge amounts of revenue doesn't mean they have huge amounts to spend on e-sports.
Advertising budget/market cycles etc all come into play with funding things like esports. It would be great if the biggest companies in the world supplied sponsorship dollars of large quantities to esports, but for them to do that it has to be worth it.
Spending extra money on proleague, given the numbers that I have seen for the proleague streams would be relatively dumb in my opinion. Although, I have never controlled such large sums of money (lets say 20 million ad budget) I still think that someone in such a high position would be hesitant to spend a large portion of that on esports, starcraft 2 especially, given the numbers that are currently being pumped out by proleague. Infact, they would probably gain more out of GSTL right now (today).
I assume that is for a foreign market? I highly doubt gstl gets more viewers than pl in korea. So I'm assuming that means that at least FXO will stay in gstl? TBH right now I feel like instead of a merger we will see gstl teams leaving one after another and the league becoming worse every season, just imagine how shity next season would be without the top 2 teams (lgim/mvp). I have 0 to do with FXO nowadays. But knowing choya I'd assume they wouldnt give in to kespa control. If proleague were to be without kespa control they would play. I am not sure how LGIM feel, but ESF in general a quite anti kespa at least in terms of how they talk. If GSTL died then there would be no other option. Is proleague even on television now? For some reason I thought only one or two games per round were on TV and the rest streamed? GOM has pretty good korean numbers too. I still feel that GSTL would be a better option. But I would recommend GSTL change to a mixed format for the fans.
PL without kespa will never happen given that they own pl, not ogn or spo.
Afaik it is 2 days on ongamenet and then 2 on spotv2 (which I don't know whether it's an online channel or an actual tv channel, probably the later though). Either way atleast 4 games are on tv, probably all 7/8 per week.
I do know how much esf dislikes kespa (most of them were dishwashers afterall so it's understandable), but at what point does gom go fuck it we are out? I mean if lgim/mvp leave their teamleague is pretty much meh (especially with how week nshs/prime are looking and w/e is happening to azubu), they do have exclusive rights on wot and may get them to dota 2. Plus they aren't even allowed to run 4/5 code s per year anymore and have to share with ogn.
I do know that gom has pretty good numbers due to their gom player plattform being popular as fuck, but I always figured that tv would beat that, especially given that pl is on 2 channels.
Either way gstl s2 is pretty much confirmed and pl 13-14 should start at then end of the year so we should just wait and see, personally I think star 2 in korea really needs to stop being a split community between gom/esf and kespa/ogn.
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i know that this will never ever ever happen but prime in proleague T_T
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On July 23 2013 20:43 Lorch wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2013 20:29 FXOBoSs wrote:On July 23 2013 20:02 Lorch wrote:On July 23 2013 19:55 FXOBoSs wrote:
Just because a company makes huge amounts of revenue doesn't mean they have huge amounts to spend on e-sports.
Advertising budget/market cycles etc all come into play with funding things like esports. It would be great if the biggest companies in the world supplied sponsorship dollars of large quantities to esports, but for them to do that it has to be worth it.
Spending extra money on proleague, given the numbers that I have seen for the proleague streams would be relatively dumb in my opinion. Although, I have never controlled such large sums of money (lets say 20 million ad budget) I still think that someone in such a high position would be hesitant to spend a large portion of that on esports, starcraft 2 especially, given the numbers that are currently being pumped out by proleague. Infact, they would probably gain more out of GSTL right now (today).
I assume that is for a foreign market? I highly doubt gstl gets more viewers than pl in korea. So I'm assuming that means that at least FXO will stay in gstl? TBH right now I feel like instead of a merger we will see gstl teams leaving one after another and the league becoming worse every season, just imagine how shity next season would be without the top 2 teams (lgim/mvp). I have 0 to do with FXO nowadays. But knowing choya I'd assume they wouldnt give in to kespa control. If proleague were to be without kespa control they would play. I am not sure how LGIM feel, but ESF in general a quite anti kespa at least in terms of how they talk. If GSTL died then there would be no other option. Is proleague even on television now? For some reason I thought only one or two games per round were on TV and the rest streamed? GOM has pretty good korean numbers too. I still feel that GSTL would be a better option. But I would recommend GSTL change to a mixed format for the fans. PL without kespa will never happen given that they own pl, not ogn or spo. Afaik it is 2 days on ongamenet and then 2 on spotv2 (which I don't know whether it's an online channel or an actual tv channel, probably the later though). Either way atleast 4 games are on tv, probably all 7/8 per week. I do know how much esf dislikes kespa (most of them were dishwashers afterall so it's understandable), but at what point does gom go fuck it we are out? I mean if lgim/mvp leave their teamleague is pretty much meh (especially with how week nshs/prime are looking and w/e is happening to azubu), they do have exclusive rights on wot and may get them to dota 2. Plus they aren't even allowed to run 4/5 code s per year anymore and have to share with ogn. I do know that gom has pretty good numbers due to their gom player plattform being popular as fuck, but I always figured that tv would beat that, especially given that pl is on 2 channels. Either way gstl s2 is pretty much confirmed and pl 13-14 should start at then end of the year so we should just wait and see, personally I think star 2 in korea really needs to stop being a split community between gom/esf and kespa/ogn.
I dno.. I think the live audience is representative of the TV audience. Theres too many others successful games now for sc2 to be successful in Korea overall I think. LoL and WOT are doing big things there, now DOTA is coming (slowly).. I think you are going to see sc2 in terms of numbers get shoved into the corner.
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ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ Flex your dongers ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ
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EPT
