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On July 04 2013 21:48 Dingodile wrote:
I think mw is a bigger problem than hellbats in tvz.
hellbats cant be healed during attack.
I know widow mines blast away my lings so bad. Blizzard should look at them as well (but only a minor nerf or make them require more skill-which what Ive suggested in designated balance thread.)
And as discussed in other threads, nerfing any kinds of healing mechanism (even making it mech/non-healable), the drop is still effective. (dam I should find that vid on youtube.). nerfing dmg in early game is the answer.
Edit: note that I'm not agreeing with Blizzard's suggestion. please read my previous posts.
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Are you guys really sure that hellbats trishotting workers instead of two shotting them will completely destroy hellbat drops?
Even though they will trishot them instead of two shooting them, the opponent will still have to pull its workers, losing mining time the same than today.
I don't see why people think this nerf is so huge...
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Sweden33719 Posts
Don't you think TvT has become a bit boring, because it's too hellbat-drop oriented?
No, it's fun for me. Because both players are so busy, exchanging blows with each other.
Completely 100% how I feel about it and how I felt about pre-nerf BFH in old day TvT.
EDIT:
Infact, I think anyone who experienced old BFH drops would find hellbats quite mild in comparison... I mean your workers can outrun hellbats... try outrunning a hellion.
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Finally good opinion on this instead of blind whining.
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On July 04 2013 22:02 VieuxSinge wrote:
Are you guys really sure that hellbats trishotting workers instead of two shotting them witl completely destroy hellbat drops?
Even though they will trishot them instead of two shooting them, the opponent will still have to pull its workers, losing mining time the same than today.
I don't see this why people think this nerf is so huge...
No, that's the point. It's just that now, if you react on time you don't lose stuff (as it should be). they'll still be used but not spammed.
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On July 04 2013 22:07 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +Don't you think TvT has become a bit boring, because it's too hellbat-drop oriented?
No, it's fun for me. Because both players are so busy, exchanging blows with each other. Completely 100% how I feel about it and how I felt about pre-nerf BFH in old day TvT. EDIT: Infact, I think anyone who experienced old BFH drops would find hellbats quite mild in comparison... I mean your workers can outrun hellbats... try outrunning a hellion.
But...(I know i'm being against a big guy :D) They didn't have speedvac then. QQ
speedvac made hellbat VERY mobile. So pple started using hellbat instead of hellion after the nerf because hellbat have way more dps than anyother things with only minerals.
I think one dude said in other threads "You can outrun hellbat but You can't outrun medivac :D
Edit: 'way more dps with splash than anyother things with only minerals'
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United Kingdom12041 Posts
I'd be perfectly happy with a huge hellbat nerf if they made tanks 2 supply. The hellbats are so essential in making mech work outside of TvT because tanks are so useless.
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On July 04 2013 22:39 monkybone wrote:
The best changes right now for the game in my opinion would be:
Hellbat: Change damage output such that hellbats 3 shot scvs, but still 2 shots probes & drones. Hellbats receive bonus damage vs light from the blue flame upgrade.
Tank: add an armory or tech lab upgrade to give tanks bonus damage to shields.
Photon overcharge: increase damage vs armored to help with medievac harassment.
That's what I have wanted (and said before)! hellbat starts off with 18+4 light then upgraded to 18+12 light.
But tanks with bonus dmg to shield?
and PO with vs armored?
WHY? (or could you explain further?  )
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On July 04 2013 22:45 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2013 22:43 SsDrKosS wrote:On July 04 2013 22:39 monkybone wrote:
The best changes right now for the game in my opinion would be:
Hellbat: Change damage output such that hellbats 3 shot scvs, but still 2 shots probes & drones. Hellbats receive bonus damage vs light from the blue flame upgrade.
Tank: add an armory or tech lab upgrade to give tanks bonus damage to shields.
Photon overcharge: increase damage vs armored to help with medievac harassment. That's what I have wanted (and said before)! hellbat starts off with 18+4 light then upgraded to 18+12 light. But bonus dmg to shield? and PO with vs armored? You mad? (or could you explain further? ) Tanks are too useless in tvp right now, bonus damage to shields will make them more powerful when meching in tvp.
I think tanks are too useless in tvp, okish? in tvt and also bad because of vipers in tvz. they need more major changes than just dmg+ (which will not happend until LOv and that is sad  )
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People don't seem to note that  Strelok is a proffesional starcraft player through many years, including starcraft bw...
If his opinion does'nt matter, whos does?
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On July 04 2013 22:49 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2013 22:47 SsDrKosS wrote:On July 04 2013 22:45 monkybone wrote:On July 04 2013 22:43 SsDrKosS wrote:On July 04 2013 22:39 monkybone wrote:
The best changes right now for the game in my opinion would be:
Hellbat: Change damage output such that hellbats 3 shot scvs, but still 2 shots probes & drones. Hellbats receive bonus damage vs light from the blue flame upgrade.
Tank: add an armory or tech lab upgrade to give tanks bonus damage to shields.
Photon overcharge: increase damage vs armored to help with medievac harassment. That's what I have wanted (and said before)! hellbat starts off with 18+4 light then upgraded to 18+12 light. But bonus dmg to shield? and PO with vs armored? You mad? (or could you explain further? ) Tanks are too useless in tvp right now, bonus damage to shields will make them more powerful when meching in tvp. I think tanks are too useless in tvp, okish? in tvt and also bad because of vipers in tvz. they need more major changes than just dmg+ (which will not happend until LOv and that is sad ) tanks are still powerful in tvt, a flat damage buff could be bad for the matchup
what? who are you talking to? I said 'they need more major changes than just dmg+ '
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Put flamethrower on the Mighty Thor then there is no reason for hellbat to remain in the game. Mech will be even more powerful than ever!
Wa hahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahaha
To be serious, maybe changing the blue flame upgrade to tank base damage buff, since I have not seen the blue flames being upgraded like since Hots. The nerf to hellbat will probably be not getting heal by medivac and increase the difficulty of microing the hellbat. Make it more rewarding to players who have good multi-tasking. I mean very good.
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Maybe they need to get the same nerf as the helion got. Unupgraded they would need 3 shots to kill workers.
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On July 04 2013 23:24 lemonbone wrote:
Put flamethrower on the Mighty Thor then there is no reason for hellbat to remain in the game. Mech will be even more powerful than ever!
Wa hahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahaha
To be serious, maybe changing the blue flame upgrade to tank base damage buff, since I have not seen the blue flames being upgraded like since Hots. The nerf to hellbat will probably be not getting heal by medivac and increase the difficulty of microing the hellbat. Make it more rewarding to players who have good multi-tasking. I mean very good.
I get your point that hellbat shouldn't be just an easy execution but making hellbat not healable still kills enough workers before they die (and being cost effective). And the thing is that this drop come out too early before terran can set up some defence. Even if they suceedly defended, no real benefit for the defender (esp in TvT). That is the problem.
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On July 04 2013 23:42 Koshi wrote:
Maybe they need to get the same nerf as the helion got. Unupgraded they would need 3 shots to kill workers.
And that's exactly what blizzard is doing it now!
Yet I think it should be 18 +6 light before blue flame in order that it only 3 shots SCV but still 2 shots drones and probes.
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On July 04 2013 23:42 Koshi wrote:
Maybe they need to get the same nerf as the helion got. Unupgraded they would need 3 shots to kill workers.
I don't know but the main problem doesn't seem to be their worker killing to me. Sure they sometimes just win games accidently like that and it's annoying.
However, what I think is more problematic is how dropping them onto anything makes them good vs that. E.g. Bomber vs Keen was not decided by hellbats grilling SCVs but by hellbats grilling marines and marauders.
Or that video of Innovation vs I-dont-know where Innovation didn't lose a single unit. He didn't drop the SCVs, he just killed the army with the hellbat drops.
I'd say that is the problem. Hellbat+medivac is a counter to (nearly) anything on the ground for as long as the medivacs reach it. It makes hellbat drops so hard to defend, as it is not clear what to defend, the opponent can just kill anything that is not overpowering the hellbat/medivac combo.
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On July 04 2013 22:50 BoggieMan wrote:People don't seem to note that Strelok is a proffesional starcraft player through many years, including starcraft bw... If his opinion does'nt matter, whos does?
Code S players.
User was warned for this post
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EPT
