On July 06 2013 17:43 govie wrote: Hellion 80 health 8+6 damage 5 range 4.25 speed
Hellbat 135 health 18+12 damage 2 range 2.25 speed (4.25 with mediboost) can be healed
Me thinks its too much worth for the gascost (to cheap). I believe a 100 health and a lower 18+6 damage (3 hits instead of 2 hits against scv's) could solve it. It would still be worth it to build one, but it would be more of a bio unit that can be healed. This because the 135 health +more damage output+healing for only 100 gas is just to insane.
First of all, 18+6 (I was also confused...) still 2 shots scvs. 18+4 three shots scvs. (22+22 < 45)
And only early hellbat is the problem. If you nerf hellbat overall too much, it will effect late games too (esp PvT)
You know what? Fu*k it! Give Missile turrets stim. Call it "Missile barrage". Problem solved.
f what. Hellbat? I might do with medivac
You can try for yourself (in editor) and post your replay (has to be at least 3. TvT, TvZ, TvP) on either Bnet or here. If ppl think that is good, they will buy it. the obvious problem in your argument is that you think one solution will fix this. I myself posted some suggestions to discuss (not perfect), not an easy 'solution' that seems to work but ruins all other match up.
On July 06 2013 08:46 dohgg wrote: Well thank god no one on this thread has any part with blizzard balancing team, since i have heard some really crappy suggestions (lol, remove light tag from scvs).
People need to wake up... Hellbats are pretty shitty unit! especially in TvT! and why do i say that? because they are freaking slow!!! and therefore suppose to be so terrible vs ranged units... and guess what? terrans have quite some ranged units... "Yes.. but with medivac drop..." now we're getting into something.... imo, the only solution will be cargo 8.. will that ruin hellbat drop into non exist play? Probably... But on the other hand it wont hurt their well balanced places in TvZ and TvP compositions...
Some crappy suggestion = cargo 8 hellbat rofl. Dude are you on crack. or are you just a retard.
Well lol... and why does 8 cargo makes no sense? because the unit doesn't have a unit model like the size of a thor, collosus or ultra? let me remind you my dear friend... we're playing a professional RTS game which the first priority of things that should make sense is not the way things look, but the balancing of things.
About opinions which will delay the production or tech of hellbats - imo, time isn't the biggest issue, we still see some pretty late hellbats drops (usually involved like 3 medivac drops all together) which still make a significant damage even though theres a bunker + missle turret ready to defend.
This is a huge nerf to Hellbat drop in general. I thought the problem was the timing of the drop(s).
+1. That's why everyone's brain is toasted... SO HARD TO FIX THIS DAM PROBLEM
What's there to fix? The pros have no problem, Mechanically there's no problem and economically there's no problem!
Korean GMs already have no problem doing trading blows style (no defenses). Mechanically, hellbats and hellions are the same unit, conical damage vs. line-of-sight, slow-&-steady vs. fast and furious. Economically they BOTH can toast an entire mineral line in an instant.
Seems the pro-nerf folks have short memory spans forgetting hellion/banshee mid-game wars back in 2011 before that meta was figured out...
On July 06 2013 08:46 dohgg wrote: Well thank god no one on this thread has any part with blizzard balancing team, since i have heard some really crappy suggestions (lol, remove light tag from scvs).
People need to wake up... Hellbats are pretty shitty unit! especially in TvT! and why do i say that? because they are freaking slow!!! and therefore suppose to be so terrible vs ranged units... and guess what? terrans have quite some ranged units... "Yes.. but with medivac drop..." now we're getting into something.... imo, the only solution will be cargo 8.. will that ruin hellbat drop into non exist play? Probably... But on the other hand it wont hurt their well balanced places in TvZ and TvP compositions...
Some crappy suggestion = cargo 8 hellbat rofl. Dude are you on crack. or are you just a retard.
Well lol... and why does 8 cargo makes no sense? because the unit doesn't have a unit model like the size of a thor, collosus or ultra? let me remind you my dear friend... we're playing a professional RTS game which the first priority of things that should make sense is not the way things look, but the balancing of things.
About opinions which will delay the production or tech of hellbats - imo, time isn't the biggest issue, we still see some pretty late hellbats drops (usually involved like 3 medivac drops all together) which still make a significant damage even though theres a bunker + missle turret ready to defend.
This is a huge nerf to Hellbat drop in general. I thought the problem was the timing of the drop(s).
+1. That's why everyone's brain is toasted... SO HARD TO FIX THIS DAM PROBLEM
What's there to fix? The pros have no problem, Mechanically there's no problem and economically there's no problem!
Korean GMs already have no problem doing trading blows style (no defenses). Mechanically, hellbats and hellions are the same unit, conical damage vs. line-of-sight, slow-&-steady vs. fast and furious. Economically they BOTH can toast an entire mineral line in an instant.
Seems the pro-nerf folks have short memory spans forgetting hellion/banshee mid-game wars back in 2011 before that meta was figured out...
Ok. Hellbat drop might be ok in some sense. But because it is a very good harassment, EVERYONE USES IT IN TvT. If you don't have problem with that, fine. but I'm not okay with it. (maybe not everyone uses helldrop but anyone can tell that most pro ppl, esp korean pros uses them very often)
On July 06 2013 08:46 dohgg wrote: Well thank god no one on this thread has any part with blizzard balancing team, since i have heard some really crappy suggestions (lol, remove light tag from scvs).
People need to wake up... Hellbats are pretty shitty unit! especially in TvT! and why do i say that? because they are freaking slow!!! and therefore suppose to be so terrible vs ranged units... and guess what? terrans have quite some ranged units... "Yes.. but with medivac drop..." now we're getting into something.... imo, the only solution will be cargo 8.. will that ruin hellbat drop into non exist play? Probably... But on the other hand it wont hurt their well balanced places in TvZ and TvP compositions...
Some crappy suggestion = cargo 8 hellbat rofl. Dude are you on crack. or are you just a retard.
Well lol... and why does 8 cargo makes no sense? because the unit doesn't have a unit model like the size of a thor, collosus or ultra? let me remind you my dear friend... we're playing a professional RTS game which the first priority of things that should make sense is not the way things look, but the balancing of things.
About opinions which will delay the production or tech of hellbats - imo, time isn't the biggest issue, we still see some pretty late hellbats drops (usually involved like 3 medivac drops all together) which still make a significant damage even though theres a bunker + missle turret ready to defend.
This is a huge nerf to Hellbat drop in general. I thought the problem was the timing of the drop(s).
+1. That's why everyone's brain is toasted... SO HARD TO FIX THIS DAM PROBLEM
What's there to fix? The pros have no problem, Mechanically there's no problem and economically there's no problem!
Korean GMs already have no problem doing trading blows style (no defenses). Mechanically, hellbats and hellions are the same unit, conical damage vs. line-of-sight, slow-&-steady vs. fast and furious. Economically they BOTH can toast an entire mineral line in an instant.
Seems the pro-nerf folks have short memory spans forgetting hellion/banshee mid-game wars back in 2011 before that meta was figured out...
Ok. Hellbat drop might be ok in some sense. But because it is a very good harassment, EVERYONE USES IT IN TvT. If you don't have problem with that, fine. but I'm not okay with it. (maybe not everyone uses helldrop but anyone can tell that most pro ppl, esp korean pros uses them very often)
Edit: and hellion got nerf at the end of 2011
How is that bad? Zerg open ling/bane all the time then trade into muta/ling/bling and so on... If you want hellbat nerfed, banshee /alterative harass needs to be reopened.
The only problem I have with hellbats is that even if you take minimal to no damage. the amount you had to invest in units/static D to crush the drops is usually enough that the terran player is not put behind for doing no damage
On July 07 2013 02:48 Eazypeezy wrote: The only problem I have with hellbats is that even if you take minimal to no damage. the amount you had to invest in units/static D to crush the drops is usually enough that the terran player is not put behind for doing no damage
Does anyone know why Blizz make Hellbat produced right out of the factory with the Armory? I remember it has something to do with early aggression by Protoss but I'm not sure.
The reason I brought this up is that since TvT Hellbat is too early which led to super effective drops, and that Transformation Servo is virtually non-existent in any match up, wouldn't forcing TS for Hellbat to exist help delay the timing further and allowed opponents to get a more effective defence? I also think that the upgrade should be moved to Armory instead, which leaves the scouting Hellbat tech essentially the same. Plus it would be a nice bonus that all the animators' effort in making a transforming Hellion wouldn't have gone to waste. And since there is no nerf or buff to stats, it is still as deadly as ever and doesn't effect any late game scenario.
I think one reason that Blizzard is a little hesitant to nerf hellbats so quickly is that they do in fact fill many holes in the terran army. They are helpful both against zerg and protoss. I don't believe people call them imba outside of drops, so nerfing them will also nerf the good aspects of hellbats which blizzard originally intended to help terran out.
Removing the biotag as some have suggested would help with the drops; however, it would also nerf the bio army when hellbats are mixed in. Hellbats were meant to be able to be mixed in to both bio and mech armies (apparent by the healing aspect of the hellbats) and therefore should remain as such.
So again, we look to the drop as being the main the problem and specifically, the boost ability of the medivacs. This is what allows hell bats to be so effective as it doesn't really matter if there are defenses set up because one can just boost over them and still deal a great amount of economic damage. If the defending player pulls the scvs, it still doesn't matter too much as the hellbats just get loaded back up and then boosted over to them again. When the army comes to deal with the hellbats, they can just be loaded up and boosted away so that they can return again when the army is gone making it so the defending player has a hard time leaving their base (going viking/phoenix/muta would stop this but then that also confines the defending players options and they would always have to do this which again is another win for the hellbat player).
In dealing with the medivac speedboost, you cannot simply take it away as this is a huge nerf to terran. Bio drops will pretty much become obsolete (except maybe in tvt) as zerg and protoss have both been given better defensive options (faster mutas and mothership core). Being that dropping has always been a staple of the Terran race which makes the race both fun to play and exciting to watch from a spectator perspective, disabling the boost and rendering drops very ineffective would also be a bad option.
Given everything that I have said so far, it should become obvious what the best solution is: Disable the boosting ability of medivacs while a hellbat is in them. Let's look at some of the implications of this. Less defenses will be necessary for dealing with the drops. The medivac will have to be better controlled because slowly flying over a turret will result in more damage to the medivac making the hellbat drops more risky. The opponent will have more time to react to the drop in the first place as the drop is slower. Once the workers are pulled, the hellbats won't be able to be loaded into the medivac and easily catch up to the workers again. This sounds like a plausible solution that will fix the problem with hellbat drops without weakening the Terran army as a whole.
As a last note: This nerf would definitely make hellbat drops be much less effective. Hellbat drops would still have the potential to deal big damage as the units themselves have not been altered; but, they would be easier to deal with from the defender's side. It is even quite possible that they would not even be worth doing again (this would have to be tested to see if it's truly the case). However, having an option for a terran to go hellbat drops is still good (as more options for a race is always better from a player's and spectator's perspective). If the nerf completely gets rid of hellbat drops, an option could be to remove the armory requirement again for the hellbats. That way, they can still be an early game option that a terran can go for and the opponent would have to be prepared for accordingly. Hellbat drops would still be able to do decent in late game scenarios as many things are happening at once and the defender might not have the apm/map awareness to react to the hellbat drops while doing the other tasks required of them and big damage could still occur. Static defenses would still be needed at those further away expansions (as they are now pre-nerf) to deny the drops which is still good for the hellbat player as the other player had to invest in something.
I believe this could be a great solution to the problem at hand and should be contemplated further.
On July 07 2013 04:56 GUNZx5 wrote: I think one reason that Blizzard is a little hesitant to nerf hellbats so quickly is that they do in fact fill many holes in the terran army. They are helpful both against zerg and protoss. I don't believe people call them imba outside of drops, so nerfing them will also nerf the good aspects of hellbats which blizzard originally intended to help terran out.
Removing the biotag as some have suggested would help with the drops; however, it would also nerf the bio army when hellbats are mixed in. Hellbats were meant to be able to be mixed in to both bio and mech armies (apparent by the healing aspect of the hellbats) and therefore should remain as such.
So again, we look to the drop as being the main the problem and specifically, the boost ability of the medivacs. This is what allows hell bats to be so effective as it doesn't really matter if there are defenses set up because one can just boost over them and still deal a great amount of economic damage. If the defending player pulls the scvs, it still doesn't matter too much as the hellbats just get loaded back up and then boosted over to them again. When the army comes to deal with the hellbats, they can just be loaded up and boosted away so that they can return again when the army is gone making it so the defending player has a hard time leaving their base (going viking/phoenix/muta would stop this but then that also confines the defending players options and they would always have to do this which again is another win for the hellbat player).
In dealing with the medivac speedboost, you cannot simply take it away as this is a huge nerf to terran. Bio drops will pretty much become obsolete (except maybe in tvt) as zerg and protoss have both been given better defensive options (faster mutas and mothership core). Being that dropping has always been a staple of the Terran race which makes the race both fun to play and exciting to watch from a spectator perspective, disabling the boost and rendering drops very ineffective would also be a bad option.
Given everything that I have said so far, it should become obvious what the best solution is: Disable the boosting ability of medivacs while a hellbat is in them. Let's look at some of the implications of this. Less defenses will be necessary for dealing with the drops. The medivac will have to be better controlled because slowly flying over a turret will result in more damage to the medivac making the hellbat drops more risky. The opponent will have more time to react to the drop in the first place as the drop is slower. Once the workers are pulled, the hellbats won't be able to be loaded into the medivac and easily catch up to the workers again. This sounds like a plausible solution that will fix the problem with hellbat drops without weakening the Terran army as a whole.
As a last note: This nerf would definitely make hellbat drops be much less effective. Hellbat drops would still have the potential to deal big damage as the units themselves have not been altered; but, they would be easier to deal with from the defender's side. It is even quite possible that they would not even be worth doing again (this would have to be tested to see if it's truly the case). However, having an option for a terran to go hellbat drops is still good (as more options for a race is always better from a player's and spectator's perspective). If the nerf completely gets rid of hellbat drops, an option could be to remove the armory requirement again for the hellbats. That way, they can still be an early game option that a terran can go for and the opponent would have to be prepared for accordingly. Hellbat drops would still be able to do decent in late game scenarios as many things are happening at once and the defender might not have the apm/map awareness to react to the hellbat drops while doing the other tasks required of them and big damage could still occur. Static defenses would still be needed at those further away expansions (as they are now pre-nerf) to deny the drops which is still good for the hellbat player as the other player had to invest in something.
I believe this could be a great solution to the problem at hand and should be contemplated further.
I really like your idea... and i am pretty sure it'll not make hellbat drops suddenly not viable.. as i need to remind everyone how terrans drops were still super popular even in WOL w/o the boost.
If we're trying to make a comparison from WOL to HOTS, when we actually think about it, terrans as much as they were buffed aggressively they weren't buffed defensively, unlike nexus cannon or mutas speed - so saying hellbat drop won't be viable tvt if this suggestion will come true is nonsense.
appriciate the effort but this is a pretty off simulation
theres nothing killing the medivac, at least have a viking do it. 3 marauders is not the daily anti hellbat. its usually 3-4 hellbats, 6~ hellions or a bunker with marines
the simulation u have there is just a bunch of low damage high health units fighting each other to make the medivac healing that more significant ^^
the healing does help a bit, but its not a must by any means. the big part is that you slam intto their mineral line, often without risking losing the medivac all too much. drop the hellbats and try catch as many scvs as possible before they run away. once that is over its about just delying mining time with your hellbats maybe running them around in circles or trying to kill more scvs. the turret and viking is there to make sure the medivac isnt sticking around for any of this, thats why i think the healing is not any significant ingredient to hellbat drop in tvt
I wonder if maybe making workers None Light units would fix this (or a new type of unit called "worker" or something) aswell as so many other random silly hits on economy such as Hellbat drops Random coinflipy hellion runbys 10 pool baneling and baneling attacks in general ZVZ baneling drops though they're not common at all
while changing the phoenix and blue flame slightly to make them viable as economy harassment unit
On July 07 2013 20:48 stava88 wrote: I wonder if maybe making workers None Light units would fix this (or a new type of unit called "worker" or something) aswell as so many other random silly hits on economy such as Hellbat drops Random coinflipy hellion runbys 10 pool baneling and baneling attacks in general ZVZ baneling drops though they're not common at all
while changing the phoenix and blue flame slightly to make them viable as economy harassment unit
That's a very convoluted change just to fix hellbat drops.
appriciate the effort but this is a pretty off simulation
theres nothing killing the medivac, at least have a viking do it. 3 marauders is not the daily anti hellbat. its usually 3-4 hellbats, 6~ hellions or a bunker with marines
the simulation u have there is just a bunch of low damage high health units fighting each other to make the medivac healing that more significant ^^
the healing does help a bit, but its not a must by any means. the big part is that you slam intto their mineral line, often without risking losing the medivac all too much. drop the hellbats and try catch as many scvs as possible before they run away. once that is over its about just delying mining time with your hellbats maybe running them around in circles or trying to kill more scvs. the turret and viking is there to make sure the medivac isnt sticking around for any of this, thats why i think the healing is not any significant ingredient to hellbat drop in tvt
oops. I actually posted the vid to prevent ppl to suggest bio tag removal as a solution. Sorry. if that made more confusion to people. I will remove it.
Edit: But it still shows that even losing hellbat, it still kills enough.
On July 06 2013 08:46 dohgg wrote: Well thank god no one on this thread has any part with blizzard balancing team, since i have heard some really crappy suggestions (lol, remove light tag from scvs).
People need to wake up... Hellbats are pretty shitty unit! especially in TvT! and why do i say that? because they are freaking slow!!! and therefore suppose to be so terrible vs ranged units... and guess what? terrans have quite some ranged units... "Yes.. but with medivac drop..." now we're getting into something.... imo, the only solution will be cargo 8.. will that ruin hellbat drop into non exist play? Probably... But on the other hand it wont hurt their well balanced places in TvZ and TvP compositions...
Some crappy suggestion = cargo 8 hellbat rofl. Dude are you on crack. or are you just a retard.
Well lol... and why does 8 cargo makes no sense? because the unit doesn't have a unit model like the size of a thor, collosus or ultra? let me remind you my dear friend... we're playing a professional RTS game which the first priority of things that should make sense is not the way things look, but the balancing of things.
About opinions which will delay the production or tech of hellbats - imo, time isn't the biggest issue, we still see some pretty late hellbats drops (usually involved like 3 medivac drops all together) which still make a significant damage even though theres a bunker + missle turret ready to defend.
This is a huge nerf to Hellbat drop in general. I thought the problem was the timing of the drop(s).
+1. That's why everyone's brain is toasted... SO HARD TO FIX THIS DAM PROBLEM
What's there to fix? The pros have no problem, Mechanically there's no problem and economically there's no problem!
Korean GMs already have no problem doing trading blows style (no defenses). Mechanically, hellbats and hellions are the same unit, conical damage vs. line-of-sight, slow-&-steady vs. fast and furious. Economically they BOTH can toast an entire mineral line in an instant.
Seems the pro-nerf folks have short memory spans forgetting hellion/banshee mid-game wars back in 2011 before that meta was figured out...
Ok. Hellbat drop might be ok in some sense. But because it is a very good harassment, EVERYONE USES IT IN TvT. If you don't have problem with that, fine. but I'm not okay with it. (maybe not everyone uses helldrop but anyone can tell that most pro ppl, esp korean pros uses them very often)
Edit: and hellion got nerf at the end of 2011
How is that bad? Zerg open ling/bane all the time then trade into muta/ling/bling and so on... If you want hellbat nerfed, banshee /alterative harass needs to be reopened.
yeah. more variety, more the fun! (I actually hate current zerg tactic that there is not much difference compare to wol esp ZvZ.) And i'm pretty sure terran has some other harrassment viable but just overshadowed by hellbat. bio drops are still good! (maybe buff banshee little but hell no with Blizzard suggestion)
On July 06 2013 11:03 IamHobbyless wrote: What about carbo 6 so you could load up a mines or something?
I personally think any change to cargo space or even making impossible to load should be the last solution to be implemented.
Making hellbat to have 4 cargo spaces is already weird (but still ok since baneling takes double of zergling space). I don't want 2 supply unit takes that big space just to make the balance right.
And I think making hellbat unable to load is going against game logic. All ground units that are mobile should be loaded to 'dropships' (overlord, WP, medivac). seized tank is not an exception because it cannot be moved. burrowed units might be exceptions but... I don't have to explain why
That is why nerfing to 18+4 light than upgrade blue flame to get full power is the best one I could think of. Hellbat is soooooooooo overpowered in TvT EARLY game and to a less degree in early TvZ and TvP. That's why making early-mid game hellbat to be less effective OVERALL (not only drops) would helps other match ups as well. It won't affect the mid-late game that much than other nerfs. And hellbat still two shots drones and probes not scv (3 shots).
If you think hellbat is too nerfed by this, make hellbat just a transformation of hellion (like viking) with no armory requirement (nor techlab). Blizzard made armory requirement for hellbat because it was too powerful for early game. I think with this nerf and buff, hellbat can come faster but less effective in early game (which what everyone wants)
Edit: If you think no armory requirement is too imba, maybe make it require armory but without transformation servo upgrade. so hellbats are no longer built from factory but just a transformation of hellion
You have nothing of substance to disagree with increasing the cargo space used by hellbats. There is nothing except that it is "already weird". And you, the king of balance, don't want to make 2 supply unit take BIG SPACE. OH NO, BIG SPACE SO BAD.
You know what's weird? Nerfing hellbat damage rather than drop capacity because hellbatdrops are OP.
okay, okay.... But are you sure that only the hellbatdrops are problem? I don't think so. That's why I have suggested mine. If everyone (or at least majority of the ppl) think early hellbat itself now (with full dmg) is ok in TvT, your opinion might be valid.
The increase in drop space is the right way to approach it. It may not be enough. But it increases the cost of doing hellbat drops. Now you have to risk one more medivac to do drops. Early on, you will need one more production cycle of medivacs to drop 2 hellbats rather than wait on 1 medivac. Delaying earliest 2-hellbat drop by 42 seconds might not sound like much, but that's the kind of incremental increase that I think is prudent.
How about this? An upgrade in armory that takes 100 seconds. Without it, hellbats cannot be loaded up into medivacs. That will delay hellbat drops if you think hellbat drops are fine in mid-game and late-game.
But hellbat on the ground in early-game is not an issue. :\
On July 06 2013 11:03 IamHobbyless wrote: What about carbo 6 so you could load up a mines or something?
I personally think any change to cargo space or even making impossible to load should be the last solution to be implemented.
Making hellbat to have 4 cargo spaces is already weird (but still ok since baneling takes double of zergling space). I don't want 2 supply unit takes that big space just to make the balance right.
And I think making hellbat unable to load is going against game logic. All ground units that are mobile should be loaded to 'dropships' (overlord, WP, medivac). seized tank is not an exception because it cannot be moved. burrowed units might be exceptions but... I don't have to explain why
That is why nerfing to 18+4 light than upgrade blue flame to get full power is the best one I could think of. Hellbat is soooooooooo overpowered in TvT EARLY game and to a less degree in early TvZ and TvP. That's why making early-mid game hellbat to be less effective OVERALL (not only drops) would helps other match ups as well. It won't affect the mid-late game that much than other nerfs. And hellbat still two shots drones and probes not scv (3 shots).
If you think hellbat is too nerfed by this, make hellbat just a transformation of hellion (like viking) with no armory requirement (nor techlab). Blizzard made armory requirement for hellbat because it was too powerful for early game. I think with this nerf and buff, hellbat can come faster but less effective in early game (which what everyone wants)
Edit: If you think no armory requirement is too imba, maybe make it require armory but without transformation servo upgrade. so hellbats are no longer built from factory but just a transformation of hellion
You have nothing of substance to disagree with increasing the cargo space used by hellbats. There is nothing except that it is "already weird". And you, the king of balance, don't want to make 2 supply unit take BIG SPACE. OH NO, BIG SPACE SO BAD.
You know what's weird? Nerfing hellbat damage rather than drop capacity because hellbatdrops are OP.
okay, okay.... But are you sure that only the hellbatdrops are problem? I don't think so. That's why I have suggested mine. If everyone (or at least majority of the ppl) think early hellbat itself now (with full dmg) is ok in TvT, your opinion might be valid.
The increase in drop space is the right way to approach it. It may not be enough. But it increases the cost of doing hellbat drops. Now you have to risk one more medivac to do drops. Early on, you will need one more production cycle of medivacs to drop 2 hellbats rather than wait on 1 medivac. Delaying earliest 2-hellbat drop by 42 seconds might not sound like much, but that's the kind of incremental increase that I think is prudent.
How about this? An upgrade in armory (with minimal cost like 50/50 for warp tech) that takes 100 seconds. Without it, hellbats cannot be loaded up into medivacs. That will delay hellbat drops if you think hellbat drops are fine in mid-game and late-game; and a problem early-game only.
But hellbat on the ground in early-game is not an issue in anyone's eyes.
i think one of the issues that hasn't been addressed too much (at least that i've seen with minor research) is the fact that speedvacs allow hellbats to chase fleeing SCVs with ease. the surprise element of boosting into an enemy mineral line is much less of an issue than not being able to even save your workers if your defense isn't sufficient enough to deflect the medivac at all.
so here's yet another community suggestion to change hellbats from yours truly:
change the current auto-attack on hellbats into an activated ability, similar to the void ray's prismatic alignment. lasts 5-10 seconds. give it 30 cooldown.*
new auto-attack is lower damage but longer range (and maybe smaller splash radius), so as to improve their effectiveness as buffer units in large armies.
while i'm sure people are tired of having so many "stims" implemented right now, this seems like a decent way to allow everybody to still utilize hellbat drops, but they are also slightly harder to execute/guarantee damage. adding hellbat stim would also make hellbat's role in larger engagements pretty interesting as well.
On July 08 2013 14:43 megapants wrote: i think one of the issues that hasn't been addressed too much (at least that i've seen with minor research) is the fact that speedvacs allow hellbats to chase fleeing SCVs with ease. the surprise element of boosting into an enemy mineral line is much less of an issue than not being able to even save your workers if your defense isn't sufficient enough to deflect the medivac at all.
so here's yet another community suggestion to change hellbats from yours truly:
change the current auto-attack on hellbats into an activated ability, similar to the void ray's prismatic alignment. lasts 5-10 seconds. give it 30 cooldown.*
new auto-attack is lower damage but longer range (and maybe smaller splash radius), so as to improve their effectiveness as buffer units in large armies.
while i'm sure people are tired of having so many "stims" implemented right now, this seems like a decent way to allow everybody to still utilize hellbat drops, but they are also slightly harder to execute/guarantee damage. adding hellbat stim would also make hellbat's role in larger engagements pretty interesting as well.
*numbers are pulled out of my ass
It adds another burden for Terrans who wish to use hellbats in larger engagements without dropping them. If hellbats were really overpowered on the ground without medivacs boosting them, it would be worthwhile considering.
EPT
