Opinion on hellbat drop play - Page 16

On July 06 2013 09:20 Lock0n wrote:


Some crappy suggestion = cargo 8 hellbat rofl. Dude are you on crack. or are you just a retard.

On July 05 2013 13:08 Blargh wrote:

Hellbats are too strong in normal fights too buddy. Zealots and marine tank just flat-out die when there are hellbats mixed in. Also, hellbat marauder pushes (I believe Polt did one or two during MLG) versus Zerg are incredibly strong. Dropping them requires some micro, but using them in engagements requires roughly 0. Zealots might actually require more micro than hellbats. They are both incredibly a-movish. Hellbats are the shittiest designed units out there. Whoever thought of them as a new unit is a total idiot. Plus, they are incredibly tanky and do a ton of damage. Shit, I see hellbats trolling SIEGE tanks. It's just a horribly made unit. BUT THEN, THEY REQUIRE ONLY MINERALS, LOL!

You're in denial here, plogamer.

On July 06 2013 10:10 Snowbear wrote:


What is wrong with it? The hellbat drops are imba, so nerf the drops. I really don't see the problem with cargo 8.

On July 05 2013 13:08 Blargh wrote:

Hellbats are too strong in normal fights too buddy. Zealots and marine tank just flat-out die when there are hellbats mixed in. Also, hellbat marauder pushes (I believe Polt did one or two during MLG) versus Zerg are incredibly strong. Dropping them requires some micro, but using them in engagements requires roughly 0. Zealots might actually require more micro than hellbats. They are both incredibly a-movish. Hellbats are the shittiest designed units out there. Whoever thought of them as a new unit is a total idiot. Plus, they are incredibly tanky and do a ton of damage. Shit, I see hellbats trolling SIEGE tanks. It's just a horribly made unit. BUT THEN, THEY REQUIRE ONLY MINERALS, LOL!

You're in denial here, plogamer.

On July 06 2013 10:17 Snowbear wrote:


Oh really? Hellbats are 1amovish? Every terran unit has to be code S micro intensive, right? Meanwhile zergs are 1a'ing every single unit.

And if hellbats were so imba, then explain me why we don't see terran dominate tournaments? Take a look: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/hots/individual-leagues

And polt his marauder hellbat is so strong thanks to the damage done by the hellbat drops. Take away those drops and his push is MUCH weaker.

On July 06 2013 11:03 IamHobbyless wrote:
What about carbo 6 so you could load up a mines or something?

On July 06 2013 12:16 SsDrKosS wrote:

I personally think any change to cargo space or even making impossible to load should be the last solution to be implemented.

Making hellbat to have 4 cargo spaces is already weird (but still ok since baneling takes double of zergling space).
I don't want 2 supply unit takes that big space just to make the balance right.

And I think making hellbat unable to load is going against game logic.
All ground units that are mobile should be loaded to 'dropships' (overlord, WP, medivac).
seized tank is not an exception because it cannot be moved.
burrowed units might be exceptions but... I don't have to explain why


That is why nerfing to 18+4 light than upgrade blue flame to get full power is the best one I could think of.
Hellbat is soooooooooo overpowered in TvT EARLY game and to a less degree in early TvZ and TvP.
That's why making early-mid game hellbat to be less effective OVERALL (not only drops) would helps other match ups as well. It won't affect the mid-late game that much than other nerfs. And hellbat still two shots drones and probes not scv (3 shots).

If you think hellbat is too nerfed by this, make hellbat just a transformation of hellion (like viking) with no armory requirement (nor techlab). Blizzard made armory requirement for hellbat because it was too powerful for early game. I think with this nerf and buff, hellbat can come faster but less effective in early game (which what everyone wants)

Edit: If you think no armory requirement is too imba, maybe make it require armory but without transformation servo upgrade. so hellbats are no longer built from factory but just a transformation of hellion

On July 06 2013 14:56 TOdesKaMpF wrote:
lol, 200 minerals for a hellbat drop. Potential to end the game outright, you call this balance? There is literally no argument you can make. Bio units are awesome, you should try em'

On July 06 2013 14:10 Cascade wrote:
Hmm, do i read the thread correctly if I say that people are mainly worried about hellbats in TvT? Would hellbats be fine if it was not for TvT? Statistically it is decently balanced between the races as I understand?

If so, couldn't a solution be to give terran a good defense vs hellbats (whatever that would be...), as much as nerfing the hellbats?

On July 06 2013 10:21 SsDrKosS wrote:

Bro, Hellbat is imba (not op) in TvT only. (maybe in other matchups but sooooo strong in TvT early games) Of course the statistic won't show it.

And if zerg a move, they will get toasted by WM, Colossus with FF, banemine, etc....
It's not a bronze league hero.

On July 06 2013 14:10 Cascade wrote:
Hmm, do i read the thread correctly if I say that people are mainly worried about hellbats in TvT? Would hellbats be fine if it was not for TvT? Statistically it is decently balanced between the races as I understand?

If so, couldn't a solution be to give terran a good defense vs hellbats (whatever that would be...), as much as nerfing the hellbats?

On July 06 2013 15:18 Entirety wrote:


A good defense vs. hellbats would likely affect the other matchups.

For example, if you want to stop the medivac, you can perhaps improve spotting (sensor tower) or attack the medivac directly (missle turret), but there are already good options.

Perhaps you want some sort of static defense? Well that would overpower terran, which can already cope with planetary fortresses and bunkers and turrets and walls.

Perhaps you make scvs take less damage? Err then banelings, oracles, colossi, phoenixes, etc. would probably do less damage against scvs too.

Okay, I got it - the perfect solution.

New defensive structure - Hellbat Guard, 100 min. Whenever a unit is dropped, it is instantly surrounded by harmless barricades that prevent it from moving. It only affects units whose names include "bat".

...or not?

On July 06 2013 15:18 Entirety wrote:


A good defense vs. hellbats would likely affect the other matchups.

For example, if you want to stop the medivac, you can perhaps improve spotting (sensor tower) or attack the medivac directly (missle turret), but there are already good options.

Perhaps you want some sort of static defense? Well that would overpower terran, which can already cope with planetary fortresses and bunkers and turrets and walls.

Perhaps you make scvs take less damage? Err then banelings, oracles, colossi, phoenixes, etc. would probably do less damage against scvs too.

Okay, I got it - the perfect solution.

New defensive structure - Hellbat Guard, 100 min. Whenever a unit is dropped, it is instantly surrounded by harmless barricades that prevent it from moving. It only affects units whose names include "bat".

...or not?

On July 03 2013 23:58 Tenks wrote:



I believe this is an issue as well. Did Blizzard ever state why they made it so Spores only require Pool in HOTS instead of evo? Right now you can't even catch a Zerg with it's pants down.

On July 05 2013 17:23 Lumi wrote:
Even hearing Blizzard's recent talk about why they think this or that about certain units or desired changes, they seem to speak at least as much about wanting things to be fun for spectators as they do for actually wanting t he game to be balanced. And never in the same breath. I'm sure Blizzard wants to have a balanced game, but I think they are being pretty derpy about a fair few things in HotS, so it's not quite happening.

It's disappointing when you see them trying out random buffs just for the sake of excitement for spectators (warp prism buff, that's the only reasoning I saw.)

On July 05 2013 17:23 Lumi wrote:
A) Hellbats simply are a mechanical unit. They benefit from mechanical upgrades. The damage they take is decreased based on upgrades to their plating. But their damage can be healed by medivacs, which only heal biological units. This is actually a really embarassing detail, if you're willing to take the game seriously enough and to criticize Blizzard for blatantly shoddy, balance-negligent game design.

On July 05 2013 17:23 Lumi wrote:
B) Widow mines splash damage hits everything, above and below ground, except for other widow mines - whether above or below ground. Nowhere in Starcraft 1 or 2 has a unit had some weird and self-convenient dynamic like this, which defies the consistency of the games physics so sharply. It seems like another glossed over, even unconsidered matter.

On July 06 2013 13:53 plogamer wrote:


You have nothing of substance to disagree with increasing the cargo space used by hellbats. There is nothing except that it is "already weird". And you, the king of balance, don't want to make 2 supply unit take BIG SPACE. OH NO, BIG SPACE SO BAD.

You know what's weird? Nerfing hellbat damage rather than drop capacity because hellbatdrops are OP.