EPTOpinion on hellbat drop play - Page 9
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jonaa
Netherlands151 Posts
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AxionSteel
United States7754 Posts
I strongly disagree with you saying hellbats are bad in the mid/late game though. they are so beefy, and this is what keeps the mech army viable and gives the siege tanks a chance to unleash their barrage of range splash before amoving zealots and zerglings get underneath them (and terran bio from swarming them). In saying that, the proposed change with the blue flame upgrade might not ruin mech overall, it seems like a smart change. Depends on how heavily mech requires doing damage with early hellbat drops I guess. | ||
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hansonslee
United States2027 Posts
All-in-all, hellbats should be more of a midgame unit not an early game unit that dictates the pace; that's more the hellion's job. Make the hellbats come out later and more of an actual investment. | ||
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FinalForm
United States450 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On July 04 2013 14:55 RHGaming wrote: I completely disagree with your opinion that they're useless in TvZ. Hellbat drops have near zero risk and a high chance of doing damage when done correctly (in my opinion). Im not saying they 100% need a nerf at this point but I'd keep a very very close eye out for it. This is completely wrong. Your upgrades are considerably delayed when going Hellbat drops vs Zerg, so if you don't deal enough damage you're behind in the midgame (i. e. the critical phase of the game for Terran) since you're 1/1 vs 2/2, which usually results in poor trades. | ||
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SsDrKosS
330 Posts
On July 03 2013 14:26 fezvez wrote: I would like the bio tag to remain (even though it is nonsensical, it makes sense in term of gameplay) My favourite option so far is to reduce damage to 18 + 4 vs light, and with BFH it becomes 18 + 12 vs light (the same as right now) This way, unupgraded hellbats would 3-shot marines and SCVs in the beginning of the game, but would still 2-shot drones and probes, thus keeping hellbat drops as viable openers in TvP and TvZ. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=416744¤tpage=40 | ||
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Thor.Rush
Sweden702 Posts
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SsDrKosS
330 Posts
On July 04 2013 20:27 Thor.Rush wrote: Buff missile turrets please! To help vs hellbat drops and to actually make them useful vs mutas.. ROFLd! Thank you for making me laugh but no. Nice troll post though | ||
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Gben592
United Kingdom281 Posts
There's word that the Hellbat might get nerfed. Players like Flash have said that this is a change that must not be made. What are your thoughts? I don't put much weight in Hellbats outside of TvT. And that's a mirror, so it doesn't really matter there. I think I'd be fine in other match-ups even with a nerf. Don't you think TvT has become a bit boring, because it's too hellbat-drop oriented? No, it's fun for me. Because both players are so busy, exchanging blows with each other. So that's what INoVation has to say  I personally think the only problem with Hellbats is in TvT, where they are two prevalent, so it's slightly dull, but I'm fine with them in the other matchups  | ||
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Gben592
United Kingdom281 Posts
On July 04 2013 20:06 SsDrKosS wrote: How about this? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=416744¤tpage=40 That sounds good! | ||
malaan
365 Posts
But then, a GM guy killed me 15 minutes ago with a proxy stargate build that looked like a hellbat openner :/ cant win em all I guess. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On July 04 2013 20:42 malaan wrote: I hate TvT now to be honest. It really is hellbat or die. You can't predict it's coming soon enough, you are dead. But then, a GM guy killed me 15 minutes ago with a proxy stargate build that looked like a hellbat openner :/ cant win em all I guess. He was really good if he made you think he was Terran while actually playing Protoss. | ||
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SsDrKosS
330 Posts
On July 04 2013 20:55 TheDwf wrote: He was really good if he made you think he was Terran while actually playing Protoss. lol x10^10! I rofled really hard! Course you can't win because that GM must've had some sort of all star race! reminds me of BW protoss with Dark Archons and zerg with infestors | ||
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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
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SpikeStarcraft
Germany2095 Posts
On July 04 2013 20:05 TheDwf wrote: This is completely wrong. Your upgrades are considerably delayed when going Hellbat drops vs Zerg, so if you don't deal enough damage you're behind in the midgame (i. e. the critical phase of the game for Terran) since you're 1/1 vs 2/2, which usually results in poor trades. The good thing about hellbats is that a lot of zergs are panicking and are totally overreacting by building 3-4 spores + spines per base. With that amount of indirect damage, you dont even need to do damage anymore to be ahead. Especially with fast 3rd after that. And the funny thing is that those investments, although they put you behind, dont even guaruantee that you are save against hellbats. Just unload them somewhere in the base without letting the medivac take damage and fly away. One hellbat attacks the mineral line from the left one from the right... As long as you dont suicide medivacs you only invest minerals and can tech behind it np. Yes youve invested 100 gas earlier in an armory but then you do double upgrade and youre fine... In tvt its simpy impossible to defend with no gas expand. You need bunker, marines, turret, viking and maybe a widow mine to shut them down completely. Amd you dont have all of that early enough. I think maybe give hellbats 25 gas cost if you produce them from the factory, but normal hellions stay the same cost. I also like the test map, you can still get + 20 worker kills with hellbats but you need one shot more which gives you more time to save scvs. Late and midgame stays the same when youve upgraded blue flame. | ||
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Laryleprakon
New Zealand9496 Posts
Hopefully blizzard at least try's a balance map with the changes they suggested in the blog. | ||
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effecto
France142 Posts
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baldgye
United Kingdom1103 Posts
The biggest problem I see is when watching Pro games.... especially TvT... it's just silly... you can watch someone play really well and miss one drop, or let it do too much.. and then the game is over, essentially. It's not actually good or enjoyable to watch and makes what used to be a pretty good and exciting match up, dull and over before its really began. | ||
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SsDrKosS
330 Posts
Hellbat will now have 18 + 4 vs light and blue flame will give full light dmg back. This will make TvP and TvZ almost untouched (because they will still two shot drones/probe unless someone does insane worker micro) but will make TvT early hellbat drops less effective because hellbat will now three shot SCVs. It also makes hellbat consistent with Hellion (8+6light but BF makes 8+11). | ||
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Dingodile
4139 Posts
hellbats cant be healed during attack. | ||
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