EPTJune Winrates - Page 9
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BlackPanther
United States872 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On July 02 2013 05:50 aldochillbro wrote: Yeah, because preparing for your opponent and metagaming his style never happens outside of Proleague. In proleague you have people on the team that "snipe" players on the other team. this means that they have a carefully designed build that plays specifically to the other players weaknesses. You mean like Polt did a Hellbat/Marauder all-in against HyuN because he knows HyuN rarely opens with mutas? Or like Suppy tried to 6 pool Polt because he knows Polt often CC first? Or like jjakji went a 2-bases timing against Scarlett because he knows she never over sac? Like SjoW and FanTaSy went Hellbat drops into bio against Life because he virtually always plays with lings, rarely conceding Roaches? Like TaeJa went Hellions/Banshees against TLO because he knows TLO is an agressive player? None of those matches occurred in the Proleague. People prepare specific builds or strategies all the time against players with a known style or some typical things in their play. Proleague certainly emphasizes this but it does not make results completely irrelevant solely due to this. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45342 Posts
On July 02 2013 05:18 Yorbon wrote: a bunker change would be appreciated That's what I'm thinking. Although I still don't understand why hellbats can be healed by a medivac, when they can already be repaired as mech units. Was there ever an official statement as to why it has both recovering abilities? | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On July 02 2013 06:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: That's what I'm thinking. Although I still don't understand why hellbats can be healed by a medivac, when they can already be repaired as mech units. Was there ever an official statement as to why it has both recovering abilities? I don't know about their reasoning for that, but at any rate it is of precious help against Zealots with superior upgrades coming from super quick Forges. | ||
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Meerel
Germany713 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45342 Posts
On July 02 2013 06:27 TheDwf wrote: I don't know about their reasoning for that, but at any rate it is of precious help against Zealots with superior upgrades coming from super quick Forges. Yeah I know  lol. They're already hellbats though, which are made to counter zealots and other mass melee units via funneling. Not sure why they need the medivac healing them too. But I can live with that in PvT I guess. Watching TvT hellbat vs. hellbat has just become boring to me, because it seems like it's not much of a risk to go hellbats... even one good drop out of four seems to deal huge damage. | ||
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Witten
United States2094 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 02 2013 06:31 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Yeah I know lol. They're already hellbats though, which are made to counter zealots and other mass melee units via funneling. Not sure why they need the medivac healing them too. But I can live with that in PvT I guess. Watching TvT hellbat vs. hellbat has just become boring to me, because it seems like it's not much of a risk to go hellbats... even one good drop out of four seems to deal huge damage. Hellbats are just a bummer for me when I have zealots. They are just a block of HP that eats through them. If I could micro the zealot after they charged, it would be fine, but right now I just get to dance back an fourth until I think I can connect with more bio than Hellbat. | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
On July 02 2013 06:31 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I think i agree with this here. Win rates are looking pretty reasonable, but the state of tvt atm isn't to my liking. Also, i don't think the removal of the possibility to be healed by medivacs would have a big effect on win rates to be honest, although i could be horribly wrong of course.Yeah I know lol. They're already hellbats though, which are made to counter zealots and other mass melee units via funneling. Not sure why they need the medivac healing them too. But I can live with that in PvT I guess. Watching TvT hellbat vs. hellbat has just become boring to me, because it seems like it's not much of a risk to go hellbats... even one good drop out of four seems to deal huge damage. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On July 02 2013 06:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: That's what I'm thinking. Although I still don't understand why hellbats can be healed by a medivac, when they can already be repaired as mech units. Was there ever an official statement as to why it has both recovering abilities? The problem I see is that the moment you make them mechanical, the moment mech will be rolled over by immortals. Not sure why stripping them from their biological status is a problem though. :/ | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On July 02 2013 06:40 JustPassingBy wrote: The problem I see is that the moment you make them mechanical, the moment mech will be rolled over by immortals. Not sure why stripping them from their biological status is a problem though. :/ Immortals deal bonus damage to armored targets, not mechanical ones. | ||
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MasterOfPuppets
Romania6942 Posts
On July 02 2013 06:40 JustPassingBy wrote: The problem I see is that the moment you make them mechanical, the moment mech will be rolled over by immortals. Not sure why stripping them from their biological status is a problem though. :/ I thought immortals did bonus damage to armored, not mechanical. Unless I'm misunderstanding something here... | ||
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Thrillz
4313 Posts
On July 02 2013 06:40 JustPassingBy wrote: The problem I see is that the moment you make them mechanical, the moment mech will be rolled over by immortals. Not sure why stripping them from their biological status is a problem though. :/ As people have already stated, it's armored and not mech that immortals get bonus. Regardless, that wouldn't make or break mech anyways, the problem is that tanks and thors aren't that great vs current compositions. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 02 2013 06:42 MasterOfPuppets wrote: I thought immortals did bonus damage to armored, not mechanical. Unless I'm misunderstanding something here... Nope, your right. They maul roaches. | ||
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dutchfriese
2554 Posts
On July 02 2013 05:25 Little-Chimp wrote: Probably because those stats would actually reflect how the game looks in major leagues with the best players. Keep up the persecution complex though terrans lol the data says the game is fairly balanced atm, that doesn't mean there aren't problem with the game currently, it just means your the sky is falling rhetoric is over exaggerated. Hellbat damage needs to go be reduced to the 12-13 range and its hp reduced to around 110-125 not sure, and oracles need an armor buff/hp buff, or the cost needs to be drastically reduced because 150/150 is too much of a risk | ||
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Rhaegal
United States678 Posts
I think it comes down to this: Terran has the weakest all ins and the weakest all in defense of the races. Photon overcharge killed 1/1/1, 11/11, or even 4-5 rax pressure after expo. A lot of maps are very hard to hold off blink stalker all ins too, like star station. So while not many Protoss players can play like Rain, there are still a large number of early aggressive options Protoss can choose from, while Terran's only option really is to just play standard. 2-2 speed, Roach bane all ins were hard to hold off even in wings. Terran doesn't want to make tanks because they are pretty bad vs the new muta, and we have to be aggressive from the 11 minute mark onward to delay ultras as long as possible, so that's why you are seeing Terrans die to so many roach bane all ins while being so greedy. If ultra's pop and you don't have some kind of economic or army advantage it is very hard to deal with. | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On July 02 2013 06:31 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Yeah I know lol. They're already hellbats though, which are made to counter zealots and other mass melee units via funneling. Not sure why they need the medivac healing them too. But I can live with that in PvT I guess. Watching TvT hellbat vs. hellbat has just become boring to me, because it seems like it's not much of a risk to go hellbats... even one good drop out of four seems to deal huge damage. Hellbats are healable for the simple reason that archons can actually kill them. If it wasn't for that, protoss didn't really have a good way to deal with them(atleast vs mech). As a mech terran, I'd consider it a huge buff for myself if hellbats were no longer bio. Medivac healing in the great scheme of things is imo very minimal if the protoss is not playing very greedy. Ofcourse medivac healing in TvZ is completely different. | ||
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aldochillbro
187 Posts
On July 02 2013 06:25 TheDwf wrote: You mean like Polt did a Hellbat/Marauder all-in against HyuN because he knows HyuN rarely opens with mutas? Or like Suppy tried to 6 pool Polt because he knows Polt often CC first? Or like jjakji went a 2-bases timing against Scarlett because he knows she never over sac? Like SjoW and FanTaSy went Hellbat drops into bio against Life because he virtually always plays with lings, rarely conceding Roaches? Like TaeJa went Hellions/Banshees against TLO because he knows TLO is an agressive player? None of those matches occurred in the Proleague. People prepare specific builds or strategies all the time against players with a known style or some typical things in their play. Proleague certainly emphasizes this but it does not make results completely irrelevant solely due to this. I agree with you but when protoss is clearly much better in proleague then I wouldn't use those in statistics to describe balance. when the whole competition revolves around sniping an metagaming that much i just don't see why it objectively describes the state of the game. like i said, balance looks really good right now. tournaments have a really good spread of the races. toss may actually be the strongest race atm. | ||
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Lukeeze[zR]
Switzerland6838 Posts
On July 02 2013 06:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: That's what I'm thinking. Although I still don't understand why hellbats can be healed by a medivac, when they can already be repaired as mech units. Was there ever an official statement as to why it has both recovering abilities? Blizzard devs are not too fond of mech, they said it plenty of times. The new factory units were made to mesh with the wol bio composition, not to bring pure mech as the new army. That's my guess about medivacs healing hellbats. | ||
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
In my opinion, Bo1 counts every bit as much as a Bo3. If Protoss wins with tricky builds or specific timing attacks, isn't that part of the game, each race and their viable tactics over the course of a game? I can see people disagreeing whether or not that's what Protoss most potent tools should be, but ultimately that's opinion and conjecture; Protoss clearly has the ability to compete with Terran and Zerg in the mid and late game, as well as the ability to switch up their builds and use a variety of timing attacks or all-ins just as well as Terran and Zerg can. I mean every series may as well be a Bo7 between both players, and we may as well start the game off with each player having 3 bases and max'd armies if nothing but 200/200 macro games should count towards balance. Metagaming and understanding your opponent are important, and it isn't like Protoss are the only players capable of doing those two things even if it's a bo1 setting. | ||
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