EPTJune Winrates - Page 8
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 02 2013 04:59 TeeTS wrote: If Oracles 3shot workers too, I'm totally on your side! If they make hellbats cost 25 gas each, sure. Or Zealots get an AOE when they don't have charge. One of those two. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
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krutopatkin
Germany2612 Posts
On July 02 2013 04:07 lorestarcraft wrote: lol, p AND z beating t? Who believes this?? hahaha Yea, can this people please stop faking data, it's an outrage really. | ||
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
On July 02 2013 05:04 Plansix wrote: If they make hellbats cost 25 gas each, sure. Or Zealots get an AOE when they don't have charge. One of those two. hellbats don't fly on themselves, you need the medivac too, which is another production facility (costing gas) and costing gas on itself. If we discuss about harassment potential, that let's view at all the units involved. Because I don't think anyone fears Hellbats walking to their mineral line through the front door. And Hellbats are totally fine as pure combat units. Because for a short range unit, they have awful low speed and no possibility to increase it someway (like every other short range/ melee unit has). edit: too make it clear, I think hellbat drops are totally broken, but so are other things in the game right now. It's a balance of brokenness if you like. And I personally think the fact, that a single oracle completely clearing a mineral line (and perhaps the only anti air units possible at that time of the game, if only 4 marines are avaiable) within seconds falls into the same cathegory as stupid hellbats. And don't come with building turrets. Once you have turrets, your SCVs building structures will get harassed over and over again. It's not very hard to get an oracle to 6-10 kills over the course of the game. And once harassment is done, the unit is the best unit in the game for keeping track of army movements. And Zerg.... Well the imba early game unit of Zerg was created before HotS came out, in may 2012. Queens are still totally OP for their cost and tech requirements, but people got used to this fact. | ||
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Yorbon
Netherlands4272 Posts
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Little-Chimp
Canada949 Posts
On July 02 2013 04:21 dutchfriese wrote: actually, they do mean a lot. IF the TvP matchup was at 58% you'd be screaming bloody murder. Probably because those stats would actually reflect how the game looks in major leagues with the best players. Keep up the persecution complex though terrans lol | ||
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teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
On July 02 2013 04:28 a176 wrote: Wow protoss is imba. time to nerf hellbats. thats gonna finally make mech viable tvp On July 02 2013 05:05 krutopatkin wrote: Yea, can this people please stop faking data, it's an outrage really. i heard terrans lose intentionally so the graphs show terran isnt op On July 02 2013 05:25 Little-Chimp wrote: Probably because those stats would actually reflect how the game looks in major leagues with the best players. Keep up the persecution complex though terrans lol the fuck? u srs? this stat shows EXACTLY the major leagues with the best players | ||
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captainwaffles
United States1050 Posts
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Thrillz
4313 Posts
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Blixt
Sweden16 Posts
On July 02 2013 05:34 Thrillz wrote: Let's be honest, even if the stats were perfectly balanced for an extended period of time, people would still balance whine. Yes. Kinda funny to see reflect on all the hellbat whining thats been going on while terran had the worst winrate. Not balancewhining, but every terran have had this thrown in the face the last two months. Also, these threads tends to become whinefests, I encourage people to read through their texts before posting. | ||
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
On July 02 2013 05:34 Thrillz wrote: It's not all about '%'. Even with 50% it can be imbalanced, mirrors for example. Races can be OP at certain parts of game, especially one being OP lategame isn't good because you are on clock and you can gg after x-minute. Also metagame shifts winrates, one allin being succesful doesn't mean matchup got suddenly balanced. It's just more complicated than 50/50 percents and there is more to talk about.Let's be honest, even if the stats were perfectly balanced for an extended period of time, people would still balance whine. | ||
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sibs
635 Posts
I feel like there's a gap between zerg/protoss and terran at the highest level in Korea, hard not to think there is one after proleague round5 and OSL. Terran looks very very strong in the hands of a super capable player. | ||
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Nightshade_
United States549 Posts
I hate these charts. | ||
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aldochillbro
187 Posts
On July 02 2013 01:03 TheDwf wrote: Yeah, because preparing for your opponent and metagaming his style never happens outside of Proleague. In proleague you have people on the team that "snipe" players on the other team. this means that they have a carefully designed build that plays specifically to the other players weaknesses. this has much less to do with balance and more to do with preparation playing to the weaknesses of your opponent, not the actual races. and it's much different in tournaments where both players know their opponents because one person doesn't have the upper hand. | ||
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Thrillz
4313 Posts
On July 02 2013 05:47 Tuczniak wrote: It's not all about '%'. Even with 50% it can be imbalanced, mirrors for example. Races can be OP at certain parts of game, especially one being OP lategame isn't good because you are on clock and you can gg after x-minute. Also metagame shifts winrates, one allin being succesful doesn't mean matchup got suddenly balanced. It's just more complicated than 50/50 percents and there is more to talk about. Mirrors don't become imblance, rather they get looked at because it becomes degenerate and uninteresting (reason why blizz would look at hellbats is because of TvT). Also Blizz doesn't care about "Race can be OP at certain parts of the game," as they reiterated their whole asymmetrical balance spiel many times. In this case, things will be looked at because they make the game uninteresting. The closer everything is to 50/50 though, the harder it is to call OP. On July 02 2013 05:50 aldochillbro wrote: In proleague you have people on the team that "snipe" players on the other team. this means that they have a carefully designed build that plays specifically to the other players weaknesses. this has much less to do with balance and more to do with preparation playing to the weaknesses of your opponent, not the actual races. and it's much different in tournaments where both players know their opponents because one person doesn't have the upper hand. Actually you could say the same for a bo3, or any matchup a player has prepared specific builds. It's not illogical to include teamleague stats at all. | ||
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
On July 02 2013 05:47 Tuczniak wrote: It's not all about '%'. Even with 50% it can be imbalanced, mirrors for example. Races can be OP at certain parts of game, especially one being OP lategame isn't good because you are on clock and you can gg after x-minute. Also metagame shifts winrates, one allin being succesful doesn't mean matchup got suddenly balanced. It's just more complicated than 50/50 percents and there is more to talk about. yeah, but then you should talk about both sides of the medal and not just one. We have a discussion about a terran unit being OP, not about anything else. Then I have to ask myself if Terran has an OP unit (Hellbat) and the other races not, how the fuck can winrates be that balanced? Are terran players retarded? They have this OP unit and are still even not winning even slightly more? Makes absolutely no sense or? So I just want to point out, that a hellbat nerf is needed, but there have to come other changes with it. And buffing Banshee cloak is the worst idea possible, since cloak on Banshees only plays a role in TvT, yay! (With protoss allways needing to have detection because of widow mine threat and Zergs ability to get spore crawlers with just a spawning pool). Either you nerf down the harassment potential of all 3 races equaly, or you buff terran in another way significantly. Without terran winrates will drop abysmaly, like they did in may 2012, after queen patch came through without any compensation. | ||
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sibs
635 Posts
On July 02 2013 06:04 TeeTS wrote: yeah, but then you should talk about both sides of the medal and not just one. We have a discussion about a terran unit being OP, not about anything else. Then I have to ask myself if Terran has an OP unit (Hellbat) and the other races not, how the fuck can winrates be that balanced? Are terran players retarded? They have this OP unit and are still even not winning even slightly more? Makes absolutely no sense or? So I just want to point out, that a hellbat nerf is needed, but there have to come other changes with it. And buffing Banshee cloak is the worst idea possible, since cloak on Banshees only plays a role in TvT, yay! (With protoss allways needing to have detection because of widow mine threat and Zergs ability to get spore crawlers with just a spawning pool). Either you nerf down the harassment potential of all 3 races equaly, or you buff terran in another way significantly. Without terran winrates will drop abysmaly, like they did in may 2012, after queen patch came through without any compensation. This would be true only if... Terrans weren't doing fine before the hellbat drop shenanigans started. The new medivac + MMM is pretty f'in good harassment, hellbats doing 30 damage to light out of the factory is completely unnecessary. | ||
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Thrillz
4313 Posts
On July 02 2013 06:10 sibs wrote: This would be true only if... Terrans weren't doing fine before the hellbat drop shenanigans started. The new medivac + MMM is pretty f'in good harassment, hellbats doing 30 damage to light out of the factory is completely unnecessary. Metagame changes, things go in and out of favor. Races may have been doing fine before certain X, doesn't mean they should go back to that state of play. Hellbats doing that damage was design so terran could have a good counter to mass chargelot, the side effect of course is the worker killing, which has made TvT look bad. | ||
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mnck
Denmark1518 Posts
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