EPTWCS AM Season 2 to be run by NASL and Blizzard - Page 22
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
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Derez
Netherlands6068 Posts
On June 19 2013 22:28 TotalBiscuit wrote: There weren't long waits between matches, the downtime was in my recollection lower than the other WCS events. Bad casting is very subjective, bad production is just flat out not true. The quality of the games was definitely higher and they were not casting the qualifiers from replays who the heck told you that? It was much harder for WCS NA to produce storylines similar to WCS EU or KR, because it lacks the appeal of both, but MLG never even really tried. ESL produced daily filler content for their finals, had stuff happening between games and actually tried to make things fun and hyped up. MLG did none of that, they did the absolute bare minimum, stuck with it and prayed for viewer numbers to magically improve to a point where they would make money off it. Few guys in an office building locked away from the world, 2 PC's with an extra screen to each side and a disco light, I thought that type of tournament died back with the MLG arena concept. | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On June 19 2013 22:28 TotalBiscuit wrote: There weren't long waits between matches, the downtime was in my recollection lower than the other WCS events. Bad casting is very subjective, bad production is just flat out not true. The quality of the games was definitely higher and they were not casting the qualifiers from replays who the heck told you that? If ESL had longer waiting times, it sure didn't feel like it. Maybe their production was then able to make up for it, but waiting between series(not sure if you took matches as within Bo3, if so I apologize for being unclear) felt pretty damn long in comparison. I've never been to NY, but I'm pretty sure I can navigate pretty well by now. The difference in casting is between a tier 1 caster and tier 2 at best. Sure casting in general is subjective, but I feel it's still very hard to say the casting wasn't poor in comparison. Bad production, not really sure what to say about that, except that the whole product was imo pretty lackluster. On the replays, by the end they forbade everyone to say their results and tried for atleast 2 series to not mention at all that they had switched to replay casting. You could I'm sure argue that was a mistake by them(not mentioning it), but that's a bad excuse imo especially when they go out of their way to kill the information flow on Liquipedia and through players. Edit: Sorry forgot to mention the skill level. Again I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. There were certainly some players in NA that were better(mainly thinking of Hero), but imo the EU scene had higher skill level on average, so the average game of both WCS's I'd still say was higher on the EU side. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 19 2013 22:13 TotalBiscuit wrote: Or y'know, a bunch of people who were in a position to know, told me everything God it's incredible how many people just live in complete ignorance and yet will argue with people who are in a position to know better. Its weird that people assume that TB couldn't have this information or that it wouldn't be correct because "He wasn't there". Most of the information people receive in life is second hand(like all of history). Because for some reason he couldn't just find out by talking to people at MLG and Blizzard. The posts where people are discounting the information on how MLG was chosen to run WCS are my favorite part of the thread. The posts are so irrational to the point that they are amusing. Claims that its all "bullshit", "excuses" and "MLG is just greedy" have just become funny. | ||
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shmget
118 Posts
On June 19 2013 02:10 TotalBiscuit wrote: [...] MLG was put in a ridiculously difficult position to recoup costs because they had to host at an EU-unfriendly time. So you lock out your biggest audience by default [...] MLG got saddled with the consequences of Blizzards decision not to region-lock in the worst possible way a wonderful example of cognitive dissonance. On one hand MLG need the European audience to make it viable... but on the other hand TB still hang-on to the myth that people prefer to watch under-qualified 'True American', rather than a world-class competition. The later _may_ be arguable for the fly-over american audience... but that fall completely flat if you say that a big and vital market share is the European audience. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 19 2013 23:22 shmget wrote: a wonderful example of cognitive dissonance. On one hand MLG need the European audience to make it viable... but on the other hand TB still hang-on to the myth that people prefer to watch under-qualified 'True American', rather than a world-class competition. The later _may_ be arguable for the fly-over american audience... but that fall completely flat if you say that a big and vital market share is the European audience. Man, I love it when people two separate statements out of context and then used them to make their own point. It makes for such a great argument and gives the topic the attention it deserves. Much like those 30 second political ads they run at election time when they take half a sentence out of a 20 minute press conference and use that to make their point. Its the best part about arguing on the internet. | ||
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Wertheron
France439 Posts
80% of the viewers were disappointed, it's logic and intelligent to solve the problem, i hope NASL will be successfull. | ||
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vesicular
United States1310 Posts
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Gr33d
Germany423 Posts
On June 19 2013 22:13 TotalBiscuit wrote: Or y'know, a bunch of people who were in a position to know, told me everything God it's incredible how many people just live in complete ignorance and yet will argue with people who are in a position to know better. Yes, I bet those strange people told you how MLG actually did not want WCS. Maybe they did not want it after what it has become, but in general, if a company does not want to do business, they won't. Thats like saying if Blizzard wants a WCS Shoutcraft, they would force you to do it AND not pay for it. Sure, they could say "If you don't do this, no more SC2 for you" (unrealistic, they want as much exposure as possible), but then explain why NASL seems to be happy that they got WCS, why tweets from the DH guy indicated that they would have liked to take a bigger part in it or why there are several other tournaments that are WCS approvded. MLG could have said from the start that they don't want to do the daily broadcasts but they did not, also the "quality" of the show is pretty much the same compared to those arena tournaments they did before WCS. They did not switch from huge crowded halls to small daily broadcasts with a lot of selfmade problems from one day to the next and there was a reason they did it in the first place (cut costs). Do I agree with you that its a burden to organize both, big events and the daily shows? Yes. I'm also glad that the NASL crew did pick it up and that we see the "old" MLG events again. But the problems WCS NA had could have been avoided, starting from proper qualifiers to production value during the offline event. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 20 2013 00:03 vesicular wrote: MLG being "forced" to take on WCS is laughable at best. TB runs a business, he of all people should know this. So you think Activision/Blizzard, owners of SC2 and Call of Duty couldn't put enough pressure on MLG to run WCS NA even though they didn't want to? Do you really think the largest game publisher in the US, who also happens to publish the highest selling multiplayer game in the US, couldn't do that? | ||
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Necro)Phagist(
Canada6660 Posts
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Gr33d
Germany423 Posts
On June 20 2013 00:10 Plansix wrote: So you think Activision/Blizzard, owners of SC2 and Call of Duty couldn't put enough pressure on MLG to run WCS NA even though they didn't want to? Do you really think the largest game publisher in the US, who also happens to publish the highest selling multiplayer game in the US, couldn't do that? Do you want a tinfoil hat? Ya, I'm sure Blizzard guy called the Activision CEO and said "Hey, I have problems with this tournament organisator here.. they don't want to do WCS and pay for it". "So, what do I have to do with it?" "Don't let them have CoD!" "But.. who else should make those tournaments? We are pretty happy with what we get here, we put hundred of millions into marketing afterall" "Umm...well maybe some small venue could host it, we have like 200 seats during finals, that would fit into a smaller location.. Hello? Hello? Hey Bobby, are you still there?" | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 20 2013 00:21 Gr33d wrote: Do you want a tinfoil hat? Ya, I'm sure Blizzard guy called the Activision CEO and said "Hey, I have problems with this tournament organisator here.. they don't want to do WCS and pay for it". "So, what do I have to do with it?" "Don't let them have CoD!" "But.. who else should make those tournaments? We are pretty happy with what we get here, we put hundred of millions into marketing afterall" "Umm...well maybe some small venue could host it, we have like 200 seats during finals, that would fit into a smaller location.. Hello? Hello? Hey Bobby, are you still there?" Yeah, I am sure you folks are experts on the subject and have way more information than people like TB, who deals with Blizzard all the time. However, as someone who works for very large companies, including banks, that is exactly how they function. They don't say it flat out, but they heavily imply with phrases like "Well I thought we had a good business relationship and your firm could handle this," and "Well, with our past relationship, I didn't really think this would be a problem." Anyone can stand their ground and say no, but that may affect deals you have in the future. Also, is it that hard to believe that marketing idiot said Blizzard/activision said "Why would we work with these NASL guys? MLG is already handling our CoD stuff, they should just handle this too. Everything is all set up with them." Once again, as someone who does work for very large companies, that is how terrible decisions are made. | ||
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Albinoswordfish
United States108 Posts
On June 19 2013 05:35 Dosey wrote: Are you sure you don't have that the other way around? Starleague was a complete bust and they weren't planning on doing another season EVER. Proleague was hardly the success for foreigners as anticipated. With the abysmal casting, EG-TL bombing out, insane amounts of downtime, and the terrible time slots; PL had/has a cult following at best and isn't going to get any bigger. GSL on the other hand has a brand, has a massive foreigner following, has the best name(s) in casting, a team league just as watched as PL, and a tournament system that virtually EVERY major tournament is copying or at least taking from. Now we have to put up with an OGN/KeSPA run tournament that turns the standard WCS format on its head. And we go an entire season without GOM. Sure, they will do off scene casting to an empty studio, but that's about it. WCS is hindering GOM more than anything if you ask me. Just like they hindered MLG. They were delaying the OSL because they were having issues finding a sponsor for that one tournament, but unless you have a source I don't think they were going to cancel it forever. Also GSTL is not watched more than Proleague. Proleague is by far way more popular in Korea than GSTL. Before OGN/Kespa joined a lot of the ESF teams were struggling with money because GSL is not shown on TV therefore it's hard to get sponsors. It seems like GSL/GOM is more popular to you but in reality OGN/Kespa is much more popular in Korea. | ||
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NightOfTheDead
Lithuania1711 Posts
On June 19 2013 04:28 Plansix wrote: I was going to say that, but decided to be more polite about it. But, yeah, he is really just talking out of his ass and just claiming stuff is bullshit for no apparent reason. But enough about him. Back to the joy and the return of the Pulse. Oh yeah, its coming back. Pulse wont be returning, at least not for now. Cause they have hands full with World of Tanks and WCS running with the not that large team of theirs. | ||
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lamprey1
Canada919 Posts
On June 20 2013 00:10 Plansix wrote: So you think Activision/Blizzard, owners of SC2 and Call of Duty couldn't put enough pressure on MLG to run WCS NA even though they didn't want to? Do you really think the largest game publisher in the US, who also happens to publish the highest selling multiplayer game in the US, couldn't do that? its not worth their trouble. so they didn't pressure MLG so MLG is not doing WCS any longer. ATVI could care less abuot SC2. its Blizzard's lowest revenue draw. Next Up For ATVI $30 SKylanders figurines that cost less then $0.30 to make. less than 3 years ago the most expensive one was $8. If people would carefully read how the "transition" is structured... its clear MLG is running as far away from this WCS mess as fast as possible. Get set for more excuses about WCS-AM "being in a transition phase" as the WCS-AM comedy of errors continues. | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
Who the fuck cares? why, when or who.. Everybody hated MLG broadcast and was sad for NASL.. so there it is NASL takes over so it will not end and MLG gets back to their events.. Everybody is happy now? no.. let's argue against a guy that actually knows people and stuff.. It's like me arguing with Mourinho about football.. or MJ about NBA.. HE IS A CASTER, TEAM OWNER, BROADCASTER, works with the people that put shit together.. don't you guys think he knows more then what the "eSport's press" (LOL) shows you... | ||
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packrat386
United States5077 Posts
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NightOfTheDead
Lithuania1711 Posts
On June 20 2013 00:42 shell wrote: Arguing for the sake of arguing.. human nature at it's best! Who the fuck cares? why, when or who.. Everybody hated MLG broadcast and was sad for NASL.. so there it is NASL takes over so it will not end and MLG gets back to their events.. Everybody is happy now? no.. let's argue against a guy that actually knows people and stuff.. It's like me arguing with Mourinho about football.. or MJ about NBA.. HE IS A CASTER, TEAM OWNER, BROADCASTER, works with the people that put shit together.. don't you guys think he knows more then what the "eSport's press" (LOL) shows you... I would say that "Esports press" is doing really bad job (or very good if you want to put it that way, cause it gets a lot of speculation) in providing some real facts behind the formal replies that have no clear information whatsoever. It is funny how there is NDA and all sorts of 'reveal timings' and mysticism shroud in Esports scene that usually end up nothing of real importance. | ||
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vesicular
United States1310 Posts
On June 20 2013 00:10 Plansix wrote: So you think Activision/Blizzard, owners of SC2 and Call of Duty couldn't put enough pressure on MLG to run WCS NA even though they didn't want to? Do you really think the largest game publisher in the US, who also happens to publish the highest selling multiplayer game in the US, couldn't do that? You make Sundance look like a puss by saying that. And if Blizzard was able to force MLG into an agreement based on "we're the publisher" arguments, then perhaps he is one. Which is kind of my point. Business is a two way street, you don't let another business force your hand like that if the outcome is as detrimental as what TB is writing. | ||
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