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On June 14 2013 00:29 Fjodorov wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 00:16 HeroWeDeserve wrote:On June 14 2013 00:07 -Archangel- wrote:On June 14 2013 00:00 Plansix wrote:On June 13 2013 23:55 -Archangel- wrote:On June 13 2013 16:10 Zealously wrote:On June 13 2013 16:05 -Archangel- wrote:
Omg bo1 in ro32. That is so 2011...
Why did Blizzard give a licence to these jokers?! Because television. It seems people fail to grasp how big of a deal that can be. So people on TV can also see terrible cheese games and less skillful players going through?! Its is how OSL has always run their events, from what folks are saying. I don't think Blizzard is going to dictate the specifics to how OSL is going to run the event. OSL is a huge company and a major broadcaster in Korea. I don't care how they run them in another game. BW and Sc2 are too different to keep same format. On June 14 2013 00:05 HeroWeDeserve wrote:On June 13 2013 23:58 -Archangel- wrote:On June 13 2013 22:17 SamirDuran wrote:
to those who complains about bo1 format. WELCOME TO OSL! The home of champions such as oov, boxer, nada, flash, jaedong, jangbi, fantasy and many more No, we don't have a time machine to watch BW players and BW games. This is SC2 and cheese and allin in sc2 in Bo1 create terrible games and let less skillful players advance. (Too) Many seasons of GSL proved that. HotS is very different than the early days of WoL. There aren't any BitByBits anymore to 2 rax every game. Or Inca's. Or Kyrix's to baneling bust. Hell in those GSL seasons that you're talking about MKP was willing to SCV all in for every single game of a bo7! We were playing on Steppes of War and scrap station. Shakuras Plateau was the most balanced map in the map pool. Every game, whether in a bo1 or a bo7 was cheese by today's standard of play. I don't see how it is that much different. Only cause we switched to bo3 and those cheesers went away. Just watch OSL, I bet there will be so many cheeses and allins people will go beserk and sc2 will lose all appeal to undecided masses. Go watch this final: Nestea vs MKP http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens2/vod/1274Or this one: Rain vs MC http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens3/vod/1459Or this one: MC vs July http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors2/vod/63200Or this one: Inca vs Nestea http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/vod/65293These were bo7's with nearly every game being cheese. These were the dominant strategies of early WoL. Now compare them to the bo5's and bo7's you saw at the wcs finals. You don't see the massive differences in the way the game was played? Im guessing you didnt see the last GSL finals but here is what happened: Soulkey came back from 0 - 3 with 4 straight wins doing nothing but roach/bane all ins. Actually roach/bane busts are more common now than they every were in TvZ. Only difference being that they arent just as all inish as the earliest pushes. But still..
And those were in response to greedy builds that didn't use tanks. Macro games are not the only way to play SC2 and really, if you play all macro games, it will hurt you as a player. MVP has proven this.
A best of one is unforgiving, but all these players are code S level. It isn't like they are some random scrubs.
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On June 13 2013 22:38 sihyunie wrote:
I for one prefer Bo1. In fact, I really don't like that they are making group stage Bo3. There are just too many games at the moment. I remember days when I would be hyped about a match up for a week and every game was memorable. Sure there were only 16 players in the tournament, round of 16 was round robin Bo1, round of 8 was only Bo3, and Finals only Bo5. You can say there were variances, people cheesed, it's random, etc. But I saw a lot of innovative strategies, map specific preparation, and rise of new stars. Would we have ever seen Anytime 2-gate DT only against Yellow in Bo3? Would we have seen epic 4 tiebreakers between Shine, Effort, and Gogo?
I'm not suggesting that Bo1 is the best format. It is clear that better player has higher chance of winning when more games are played. But that's not necessarily better. I'm sure some people will disagree, but I personally think less games and more preparation is better for SC2. It generally gives better games, more new strategies, and more hype and focus on each game. Bo1 format didn't prevent players like savior, jaedong, flash to dominate an era. They may not win every individual tournament, but would that really be a good thing?
Although I don't completely agree, I think this is a good post that raises some important points.
Bo1 is more debatable. I suppose it also adds a lot more tension and suspense. But random map draws without vetos is really quite unfair I feel. There are some maps which clearly favour some races (statistically) and I hope a better player doesn't lose just because of a bad map roll. There's something to be said for cheese being a viable strategy, and every player should at least account for it.
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On June 14 2013 00:29 Fjodorov wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 00:16 HeroWeDeserve wrote:On June 14 2013 00:07 -Archangel- wrote:On June 14 2013 00:00 Plansix wrote:On June 13 2013 23:55 -Archangel- wrote:On June 13 2013 16:10 Zealously wrote:On June 13 2013 16:05 -Archangel- wrote:
Omg bo1 in ro32. That is so 2011...
Why did Blizzard give a licence to these jokers?! Because television. It seems people fail to grasp how big of a deal that can be. So people on TV can also see terrible cheese games and less skillful players going through?! Its is how OSL has always run their events, from what folks are saying. I don't think Blizzard is going to dictate the specifics to how OSL is going to run the event. OSL is a huge company and a major broadcaster in Korea. I don't care how they run them in another game. BW and Sc2 are too different to keep same format. On June 14 2013 00:05 HeroWeDeserve wrote:On June 13 2013 23:58 -Archangel- wrote:On June 13 2013 22:17 SamirDuran wrote:
to those who complains about bo1 format. WELCOME TO OSL! The home of champions such as oov, boxer, nada, flash, jaedong, jangbi, fantasy and many more No, we don't have a time machine to watch BW players and BW games. This is SC2 and cheese and allin in sc2 in Bo1 create terrible games and let less skillful players advance. (Too) Many seasons of GSL proved that. HotS is very different than the early days of WoL. There aren't any BitByBits anymore to 2 rax every game. Or Inca's. Or Kyrix's to baneling bust. Hell in those GSL seasons that you're talking about MKP was willing to SCV all in for every single game of a bo7! We were playing on Steppes of War and scrap station. Shakuras Plateau was the most balanced map in the map pool. Every game, whether in a bo1 or a bo7 was cheese by today's standard of play. I don't see how it is that much different. Only cause we switched to bo3 and those cheesers went away. Just watch OSL, I bet there will be so many cheeses and allins people will go beserk and sc2 will lose all appeal to undecided masses. Go watch this final: Nestea vs MKP http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens2/vod/1274Or this one: Rain vs MC http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens3/vod/1459Or this one: MC vs July http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors2/vod/63200Or this one: Inca vs Nestea http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/vod/65293These were bo7's with nearly every game being cheese. These were the dominant strategies of early WoL. Now compare them to the bo5's and bo7's you saw at the wcs finals. You don't see the massive differences in the way the game was played? Im guessing you didnt see the last GSL finals but here is what happened: Soulkey came back from 0 - 3 with 4 straight wins doing nothing but roach/bane all ins. Actually roach/bane busts are more common now than they every were in TvZ. Only difference being that they arent just as all inish as the earliest pushes. But still..
Not sure how bringing up that zergs like to do 3 base timings is arguing against my point that HotS is a completely different game than early wings. Think it supports my point.
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Good news! This isn't the GSL. It's the OSL. You don't have to pay GOM for this season. Come to think of it, I don't know that you would want to - you can pull the audio and get the higher resolution OGN stream.
From what I understand, GOM will be doing what OGN was doing for last season's Code S - streaming from a feed from OGN. (Yes, DoA and Montechristo were casting the GSL... from OGN studios. Never got many viewers. Khaldor referenced this on SotG today.)
You're not telling me anything I don't already know and also not care about. OGN's production of the first SC2 OSL was bad. OGN's production of the WCS Grand Final was bad. OGN's stream is NOT better than Gom's IMO because they zoom out the friggin game and leave black bars around the edges for no reason. Yeah, it's 1080p, but that means a little less when they don't actually let the game window fill the screen.
And I KNOW this isn't the GSL. That's the problem. That's what I'm saying. I want GSL back. Normally, THERE WOULD BE A GSL STARTING SOON. Now there isn't, because of whatever this crappy deal is between Gom and OGN and Blizzard and the WCS mess.
*Also, OGN not using the updated observer interfaces is spectacularly annoying after we've been seeing them in ALL tournaments for months now.
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On June 14 2013 01:07 ThinJ wrote:Show nested quote +Good news! This isn't the GSL. It's the OSL. You don't have to pay GOM for this season. Come to think of it, I don't know that you would want to - you can pull the audio and get the higher resolution OGN stream.
From what I understand, GOM will be doing what OGN was doing for last season's Code S - streaming from a feed from OGN. (Yes, DoA and Montechristo were casting the GSL... from OGN studios. Never got many viewers. Khaldor referenced this on SotG today.) You're not telling me anything I don't already know and also not care about. OGN's production of the first SC2 OSL was bad. OGN's production of the WCS Grand Final was bad. OGN's stream is NOT better than Gom's IMO because they zoom out the friggin game and leave black bars around the edges for no reason. Yeah, it's 1080p, but that means a little less when they don't actually let the game window fill the screen. And I KNOW this isn't the GSL. That's the problem. That's what I'm saying. I want GSL back. Normally, THERE WOULD BE A GSL STARTING SOON. Now there isn't, because of whatever this crappy deal is between Gom and OGN and Blizzard and the WCS mess.
Okay... so why do you prefer Gomtv's broadcast to OGN's? What technical reasons could you have?
The player pool? The first OSL was mostly kespa players, now it's shared and continuous from GSL so I hardly see a problem there.
The technical aspects of the stream? OGN's stream was better, and if you don't like black bars I'm sure it's an easy fix for them to change it.
The casters? Gomtv has the embargo on tastosis and they won't let OGN have them casting OGN streams, this is hardly OGN's fault since tastosis are under contract with Gomtv.
The production values? Really? OGN's production values was bad? How? They've been in business on live television for years now.
You are fine to have your subjective preferences as to which stream you prefer to watch, but I don't see how OGN's streaming service is worse than Gomtv's.
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On June 14 2013 00:33 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 00:29 Fjodorov wrote:On June 14 2013 00:16 HeroWeDeserve wrote:On June 14 2013 00:07 -Archangel- wrote:On June 14 2013 00:00 Plansix wrote:On June 13 2013 23:55 -Archangel- wrote:On June 13 2013 16:10 Zealously wrote:On June 13 2013 16:05 -Archangel- wrote:
Omg bo1 in ro32. That is so 2011...
Why did Blizzard give a licence to these jokers?! Because television. It seems people fail to grasp how big of a deal that can be. So people on TV can also see terrible cheese games and less skillful players going through?! Its is how OSL has always run their events, from what folks are saying. I don't think Blizzard is going to dictate the specifics to how OSL is going to run the event. OSL is a huge company and a major broadcaster in Korea. I don't care how they run them in another game. BW and Sc2 are too different to keep same format. On June 14 2013 00:05 HeroWeDeserve wrote:On June 13 2013 23:58 -Archangel- wrote:On June 13 2013 22:17 SamirDuran wrote:
to those who complains about bo1 format. WELCOME TO OSL! The home of champions such as oov, boxer, nada, flash, jaedong, jangbi, fantasy and many more No, we don't have a time machine to watch BW players and BW games. This is SC2 and cheese and allin in sc2 in Bo1 create terrible games and let less skillful players advance. (Too) Many seasons of GSL proved that. HotS is very different than the early days of WoL. There aren't any BitByBits anymore to 2 rax every game. Or Inca's. Or Kyrix's to baneling bust. Hell in those GSL seasons that you're talking about MKP was willing to SCV all in for every single game of a bo7! We were playing on Steppes of War and scrap station. Shakuras Plateau was the most balanced map in the map pool. Every game, whether in a bo1 or a bo7 was cheese by today's standard of play. I don't see how it is that much different. Only cause we switched to bo3 and those cheesers went away. Just watch OSL, I bet there will be so many cheeses and allins people will go beserk and sc2 will lose all appeal to undecided masses. Go watch this final: Nestea vs MKP http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens2/vod/1274Or this one: Rain vs MC http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens3/vod/1459Or this one: MC vs July http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors2/vod/63200Or this one: Inca vs Nestea http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/vod/65293These were bo7's with nearly every game being cheese. These were the dominant strategies of early WoL. Now compare them to the bo5's and bo7's you saw at the wcs finals. You don't see the massive differences in the way the game was played? Im guessing you didnt see the last GSL finals but here is what happened: Soulkey came back from 0 - 3 with 4 straight wins doing nothing but roach/bane all ins. Actually roach/bane busts are more common now than they every were in TvZ. Only difference being that they arent just as all inish as the earliest pushes. But still.. And those were in response to greedy builds that didn't use tanks. Macro games are not the only way to play SC2 and really, if you play all macro games, it will hurt you as a player. MVP has proven this. A best of one is unforgiving, but all these players are code S level. It isn't like they are some random scrubs.
I love how posters love to use the generalizations about how other players play. It's baffling.
On June 13 2013 22:18 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 22:15 trifecta wrote:On June 13 2013 22:07 c0olL wrote:On June 13 2013 22:02 opterown wrote:On June 13 2013 22:00 c0olL wrote:On June 13 2013 21:59 opterown wrote:On June 13 2013 21:57 c0olL wrote:On June 13 2013 21:54 BLinD-RawR wrote:On June 13 2013 21:47 c0olL wrote:On June 13 2013 21:39 BLinD-RawR wrote:
some really harsh hate, then again who would stop to consider why OGN is doing it this way. we don't care what is their reason. if you cant cast a normal code S, then don't cast it. leave it to the big boys at gomtv... making stupid thing like bo1 is not an acceptable solution to their problem, whatever it is. uhh yeah say what you may but OGN is bigger than GOM and pointlessly whining isn't helping, just hope your favorite players make it through to the Ro16. ok so plz tell me, if they are bigger then gom, why cant they make normal RO32? GOM is internet channel that runs less things than OGN, which means OGN has less time available for SC2 so as i said, "if you cant cast a normal code S, then don't cast it. leave it to the big boys at gomtv..." but they're not running a code S, they're running an OSL then fuck them and fuck OSL, we want code S back. Ah yes, Code S the home of one-and-dones such as Seed, Sniper and jjakji vs. OSL stomping grounds of the likes of Nada, oov, flash, JD, Jangbang, etc. The format does not make a tournament, the players and the game do. not like OSL has had its weird winners too though
It's very rare though. The same could be said about the MSL, but heck.. they sure did have Zerg friendly maps in that one.
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Damn this looks like a BW league from 2011 :D
Almost only kespa players
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On June 14 2013 01:22 GoSuChicken wrote:
Damn this looks like a BW league from 2011 :D
Almost only kespa players
Not really. It's about half and half.
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Sweet tears of osl haters, better than pocari sweat to quench my thirst 
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On June 14 2013 01:27 jinorazi wrote:Sweet tears of osl haters, better than pocari sweat to quench my thirst
Nothing is better than pocari sweat. Don't lie! D:
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On June 13 2013 22:18 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 22:15 trifecta wrote:On June 13 2013 22:07 c0olL wrote:On June 13 2013 22:02 opterown wrote:On June 13 2013 22:00 c0olL wrote:On June 13 2013 21:59 opterown wrote:On June 13 2013 21:57 c0olL wrote:On June 13 2013 21:54 BLinD-RawR wrote:On June 13 2013 21:47 c0olL wrote:On June 13 2013 21:39 BLinD-RawR wrote:
some really harsh hate, then again who would stop to consider why OGN is doing it this way. we don't care what is their reason. if you cant cast a normal code S, then don't cast it. leave it to the big boys at gomtv... making stupid thing like bo1 is not an acceptable solution to their problem, whatever it is. uhh yeah say what you may but OGN is bigger than GOM and pointlessly whining isn't helping, just hope your favorite players make it through to the Ro16. ok so plz tell me, if they are bigger then gom, why cant they make normal RO32? GOM is internet channel that runs less things than OGN, which means OGN has less time available for SC2 so as i said, "if you cant cast a normal code S, then don't cast it. leave it to the big boys at gomtv..." but they're not running a code S, they're running an OSL then fuck them and fuck OSL, we want code S back. Ah yes, Code S the home of one-and-dones such as Seed, Sniper and jjakji vs. OSL stomping grounds of the likes of Nada, oov, flash, JD, Jangbang, etc. The format does not make a tournament, the players and the game do. not like OSL has had its weird winners too though
OSL doesnt really have weird winners. MSL is the one with the weird champions lol
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On June 14 2013 01:30 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 22:18 opterown wrote:On June 13 2013 22:15 trifecta wrote:On June 13 2013 22:07 c0olL wrote:On June 13 2013 22:02 opterown wrote:On June 13 2013 22:00 c0olL wrote:On June 13 2013 21:59 opterown wrote:On June 13 2013 21:57 c0olL wrote:On June 13 2013 21:54 BLinD-RawR wrote:On June 13 2013 21:47 c0olL wrote:
[quote]
we don't care what is their reason.
if you cant cast a normal code S, then don't cast it. leave it to the big boys at gomtv...
making stupid thing like bo1 is not an acceptable solution to their problem, whatever it is.
uhh yeah say what you may but OGN is bigger than GOM and pointlessly whining isn't helping, just hope your favorite players make it through to the Ro16. ok so plz tell me, if they are bigger then gom, why cant they make normal RO32? GOM is internet channel that runs less things than OGN, which means OGN has less time available for SC2 so as i said, "if you cant cast a normal code S, then don't cast it. leave it to the big boys at gomtv..." but they're not running a code S, they're running an OSL then fuck them and fuck OSL, we want code S back. Ah yes, Code S the home of one-and-dones such as Seed, Sniper and jjakji vs. OSL stomping grounds of the likes of Nada, oov, flash, JD, Jangbang, etc. The format does not make a tournament, the players and the game do. not like OSL has had its weird winners too though OSL doesnt really have weird winners. MSL is the one with the weird champions lol
Hello zerg maps.
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On June 14 2013 01:32 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 01:30 sharkie wrote:On June 13 2013 22:18 opterown wrote:On June 13 2013 22:15 trifecta wrote:On June 13 2013 22:07 c0olL wrote:On June 13 2013 22:02 opterown wrote:On June 13 2013 22:00 c0olL wrote:On June 13 2013 21:59 opterown wrote:On June 13 2013 21:57 c0olL wrote:On June 13 2013 21:54 BLinD-RawR wrote:
[quote]
uhh yeah say what you may but OGN is bigger than GOM and pointlessly whining isn't helping, just hope your favorite players make it through to the Ro16. ok so plz tell me, if they are bigger then gom, why cant they make normal RO32? GOM is internet channel that runs less things than OGN, which means OGN has less time available for SC2 so as i said, "if you cant cast a normal code S, then don't cast it. leave it to the big boys at gomtv..." but they're not running a code S, they're running an OSL then fuck them and fuck OSL, we want code S back. Ah yes, Code S the home of one-and-dones such as Seed, Sniper and jjakji vs. OSL stomping grounds of the likes of Nada, oov, flash, JD, Jangbang, etc. The format does not make a tournament, the players and the game do. not like OSL has had its weird winners too though OSL doesnt really have weird winners. MSL is the one with the weird champions lol Hello zerg maps.
I'd consider Mind and forGG as weird champions too.
But yeah, forgg won due to maps. So I guess you have a point.
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Play 1 bo1 on tv, and having 1 bo3 on alternate stream
Like they did with WCS S1 Final...
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I still think that WCS is worse than what we had. They should've kept the same formula as always: OSL and GSL on parallel through 2-3 months, Proleague, GSTL, and online foreign tournaments through the week/offline on weekends. As we saw in WCS finals, most players from NA and EU (IE everyone except Mvp) are just inferior to WCS KR top players.
The crowd at WCS Finals was painful to see.
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RIP sweet prince yugioh, this is what you get for leaving your kingdom.
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Why are they allowed to change the rules of WCS and have BO1 ? Quite sad.
OGN need also to prove they really care about the foreign viewers, and improve their show I hope Blizzard help them.
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On June 14 2013 00:41 Miscellany wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 22:38 sihyunie wrote:
I for one prefer Bo1. In fact, I really don't like that they are making group stage Bo3. There are just too many games at the moment. I remember days when I would be hyped about a match up for a week and every game was memorable. Sure there were only 16 players in the tournament, round of 16 was round robin Bo1, round of 8 was only Bo3, and Finals only Bo5. You can say there were variances, people cheesed, it's random, etc. But I saw a lot of innovative strategies, map specific preparation, and rise of new stars. Would we have ever seen Anytime 2-gate DT only against Yellow in Bo3? Would we have seen epic 4 tiebreakers between Shine, Effort, and Gogo?
I'm not suggesting that Bo1 is the best format. It is clear that better player has higher chance of winning when more games are played. But that's not necessarily better. I'm sure some people will disagree, but I personally think less games and more preparation is better for SC2. It generally gives better games, more new strategies, and more hype and focus on each game. Bo1 format didn't prevent players like savior, jaedong, flash to dominate an era. They may not win every individual tournament, but would that really be a good thing? Although I don't completely agree, I think this is a good post that raises some important points. Bo1 is more debatable. I suppose it also adds a lot more tension and suspense. But random map draws without vetos is really quite unfair I feel. There are some maps which clearly favour some races (statistically) and I hope a better player doesn't lose just because of a bad map roll. There's something to be said for cheese being a viable strategy, and every player should at least account for it.
I love watching games live as much as possible. But when the round of 16 lasts from 2am-6am 3-4 days a week (GSL) it just gets too much you know?
Bo1 would make the early stages last as long as the finals. And I think that's a good thing.
I think most people got too attached to the idea of "_____ got unlucky that's all!" without realizing that a group shouldn't last 4-6 hours a day for the sake of an upset fanboy...
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On June 14 2013 02:19 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 00:41 Miscellany wrote:On June 13 2013 22:38 sihyunie wrote:
I for one prefer Bo1. In fact, I really don't like that they are making group stage Bo3. There are just too many games at the moment. I remember days when I would be hyped about a match up for a week and every game was memorable. Sure there were only 16 players in the tournament, round of 16 was round robin Bo1, round of 8 was only Bo3, and Finals only Bo5. You can say there were variances, people cheesed, it's random, etc. But I saw a lot of innovative strategies, map specific preparation, and rise of new stars. Would we have ever seen Anytime 2-gate DT only against Yellow in Bo3? Would we have seen epic 4 tiebreakers between Shine, Effort, and Gogo?
I'm not suggesting that Bo1 is the best format. It is clear that better player has higher chance of winning when more games are played. But that's not necessarily better. I'm sure some people will disagree, but I personally think less games and more preparation is better for SC2. It generally gives better games, more new strategies, and more hype and focus on each game. Bo1 format didn't prevent players like savior, jaedong, flash to dominate an era. They may not win every individual tournament, but would that really be a good thing? Although I don't completely agree, I think this is a good post that raises some important points. Bo1 is more debatable. I suppose it also adds a lot more tension and suspense. But random map draws without vetos is really quite unfair I feel. There are some maps which clearly favour some races (statistically) and I hope a better player doesn't lose just because of a bad map roll. There's something to be said for cheese being a viable strategy, and every player should at least account for it. I love watching games live as much as possible. But when the round of 16 lasts from 2am-6am 3-4 days a week (GSL) it just gets too much you know? Bo1 would make the early stages last as long as the finals. And I think that's a good thing. I think most people got too attached to the idea of "_____ got unlucky that's all!" without realizing that a group shouldn't last 4-6 hours a day for the sake of an upset fanboy...
I normally end up skipping the first rounds of GSL because it takes so long to get through them. I mean, there is a reason that most sports fans only watch 1-2 games a week of a specific sport. We got other stuff to do.
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On June 14 2013 02:19 Thieving Magpie wrote:
I think most people got too attached to the idea of "_____ got unlucky that's all!" without realizing that a group shouldn't last 4-6 hours a day for the sake of an upset fanboy...
I think it's much more important to have a tournament structure with real integrity for the sake of the players trying to qualify for Blizzcon.
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EPT
