EPThttp://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1edwcu/meta_episode_4_vod_idra_catz_iaguz_and_artosis/c9zj53c
David Kim comments on Hellbat drops - Page 25
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Zax19
Czech Republic1136 Posts
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1edwcu/meta_episode_4_vod_idra_catz_iaguz_and_artosis/c9zj53c | ||
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Usernameffs
Sweden107 Posts
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BronzeKnee
United States5225 Posts
On June 12 2013 22:32 Zax19 wrote: As I said several times before, it's the obvious fix... http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1edwcu/meta_episode_4_vod_idra_catz_iaguz_and_artosis/c9zj53c Cool ideas, and I agree with everything, except that I think Widow Mines shouldn't require a tech lab and Hellbats shouldn't have their attack speed nerfed. But if the rest of the changes went through, SC2 would be a lot better. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On June 12 2013 23:54 BronzeKnee wrote: Cool ideas, and I agree with everything, except that I think Widow Mines shouldn't require a tech lab and Hellbats shouldn't have their attack speed nerfed. But if the rest of the changes went through, SC2 would be a lot better. Widow mines – flip the resources (caster type – more gas, little minerals), tech lab requirement, 30s build time, lower the splash to 35, health to 70. Hellbats – double the attack cooldown, lower the base damage and enable blue flame for more bonus vs. light, 1 base armour (make it a tanking unit it’s supposed to be while hellion being the harassing unit). TL:DR summary Nerf the new units to hell. Widow mine: 25m 75g, tech lab requirement, Why the hell would someone even build one considering siege tanks would be available b/c of tech lab, yet does significantly less damage than a siege tank (WM absurdly slow rate of fire), less health. The second "recommendation" is an outright nerf to even build hellbats Not only is it slower than sh*t sliding down a slope, it can't even beat units it's supposed to crush (melee units)! Hellbats are SPECIALIST UNITS same as DT, corruptors, etc. Every time a Terran pro stomps with a unit composition, the cries of nerf are so loud. When Zerg or toss do it, it's like "Stephano is going towards a bread and butter build of early mass maxed roach using his superior macro" When Invasion does it, "TERRAN HELLBATS OMG, BLIZZARD LOOK INTO THIS" | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
On June 12 2013 22:32 Zax19 wrote: As I said several times before, it's the obvious fix... http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1edwcu/meta_episode_4_vod_idra_catz_iaguz_and_artosis/c9zj53c Yeah in that case just remove them from the game, better solution than nerfing it into complete crap, just because one of them might need a minor nerf. | ||
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scypio
Poland2127 Posts
On June 13 2013 00:19 Sissors wrote: Yeah in that case just remove them from the game, better solution than nerfing it into complete crap, just because one of them might need a minor nerf. Maybe these guys should just play WoL  | ||
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Zax19
Czech Republic1136 Posts
On June 12 2013 23:54 BronzeKnee wrote: Cool ideas, and I agree with everything, except that I think Widow Mines shouldn't require a tech lab and Hellbats shouldn't have their attack speed nerfed. But if the rest of the changes went through, SC2 would be a lot better. Thanks. The reasoning behind the widow mine changes was to make it more in on par with siege tanks and splash providing units in general. Concerning the hellbat, as far as I know it was intended as buffer against late game protoss, mainly the zealots. With hellbat drops the attack cooldown plays a smaller role but I wouldn’t nerf the damage against light because it would make tanking upgraded zealots difficult, just the base damage - hellbats should be terrible against buildings, roaches etc. and even with blue flame they shouldn’t have higher dps than hellions because they are the tanking unit. | ||
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Usernameffs
Sweden107 Posts
You know that mines are better in a standard army then hellbats right? Atleast vs zerg. So you cant whine about that, its nerfing a specific unit at a specific task. | ||
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scypio
Poland2127 Posts
On June 13 2013 01:11 Usernameffs wrote: You know that mines are better in a standard army then hellbats right? Atleast vs zerg. So you cant whine about that, its nerfing a specific unit at a specific task. I don't mind a smart, TvT-focused hellbat nerf. The "reddit proposal" is no such thing. It is "let's nerf those new T units to the ground". If the TvZ and TvP is pretty balanced with the current hellbat how will it work out with one that has 30% of the current DPS? That is what that reddit guy proposes... "let's lower the damage and double the attack cooldown". It's like bringing a sledgehammer to a surgery. | ||
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Zax19
Czech Republic1136 Posts
On June 13 2013 01:30 scypio wrote: If the TvZ and TvP is pretty balanced with the current hellbat The changes should be this drastic because the situation is this bad and hellbats are detrimental to all matchups, not just TvT. I don’t need to convince you or anyone else for that matter, the point was that Blizzard always comes to the right conclusions late, if at all. | ||
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scypio
Poland2127 Posts
On June 13 2013 01:56 Zax19 wrote: The changes should be this drastic because the situation is this bad and hellbats are detrimental to all matchups, not just TvT. I don’t need to convince you or anyone else for that matter, the point was that Blizzard always comes to the right conclusions late, if at all. Once again here are the top-tier race stats for the WCS Premier Division:
This is the situation and I can't see nothing warranting such a huge T nerf in it. Terran has the optimal number of tournament wins and finalists and is slightly underrepresented in WCS Premier Season 2. e: also Blizzard finally dropped their "hey let's nerf stuff after one series we don't like" and they deserver to be praised for that. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On June 13 2013 01:56 Zax19 wrote: The changes should be this drastic because the situation is this bad and hellbats are detrimental to all matchups, not just TvT. I don’t need to convince you or anyone else for that matter, the point was that Blizzard always comes to the right conclusions late, if at all. What is this, I don't even... I can use the EXACT Same argument for the Viper and the Oracle. Both units require a significant adjustment in the opponent's game play when put in force. E.g. WoL Mass marine/siege tank style will be roflowned at 15min by proper control with roach/hydra/viper The fact is Terrans are at the cutting edge of innovation (pun not intended) adopting the new units and as usual the cries of entitlement are drowning out reasonable voices. Both Protoss and Zerg have insane defense options (in addition to existing solutions): P) FF box hellbats while splitting probes while warping in. Z) two spare queens to focus down medivacs and transfuse each other for "infinite health" If anything my recommendation is that static defenses (including bunker) have improved AI that focus down drop ships FIRST. | ||
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bObA
France300 Posts
not too ez to use and too many damages too fast ??? | ||
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On June 13 2013 02:26 bObA wrote: and what about oracles ??? not too ez to use and too many damages too fast ??? Oracles don't cost 200 minerals. Also, producing Oracles severely affects one's build order in a negative fashion. Hellbat drops do not. | ||
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True_Spike
Poland3434 Posts
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mikumegurine
Canada3145 Posts
like they take up 2 1/2 or 3 spots in the medivac, so you can only fit one hellbat in a medivac they will be still viable vs straight up engagements but the crazy drops will be nerfed alot... also its visually make their model look fatter that be funny | ||
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yOngKIN
Korea (North)656 Posts
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On June 13 2013 02:27 Shiori wrote: Oracles don't cost 200 minerals. Also, producing Oracles severely affects one's build order in a negative fashion. Hellbat drops do not. So it's Terran players fault for optimizing hellbat's synergies with medivacs, creating optimized 2base expand builds by exploiting the new unit. May I remind everyone that 200/200 energy Oracles are essentially flying colossi without range upgrade? Both Protoss and Zerg can use THE EXACT SAME CONCEPTS. X-gate poke/multi-prong in the front with Oracle backstab. X-hatch poke/multi-prong in the front with baneling drop on the X base. | ||
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Afterhours
United States125 Posts
On June 12 2013 22:32 Zax19 wrote: As I said several times before, it's the obvious fix... http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1edwcu/meta_episode_4_vod_idra_catz_iaguz_and_artosis/c9zj53c Except your changes are atrocious for the balance of other match-ups. Sounds more like a disgruntled player who really hates dealing with hellbat drops. And those WM suggestions...wtf? Anyhow, back to topic, I also really really appreciate Davey's team really taking their time to let hurdles in the metagame have a chance to work themselves out. I really refreshing change of pace compared to WoL. | ||
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shockaslim
United States1105 Posts
On June 12 2013 06:18 Shiori wrote: So then don't play mech TvP.... mind=blown It's like me complaining that I can't play PvZ strategies against Protoss. The reason people complain is because Blizzard claims that they want mech to work in this game......and in the current form it does not. | ||
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