EPTDavid Kim comments on Hellbat drops - Page 24
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Tuffy
Canada23 Posts
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SsDrKosS
330 Posts
On June 12 2013 11:29 plogamer wrote: You're in the wrong thread if you want to advocate for nerfing marine/marauder drops by changing the medivacs. Hmm... But I really don't know how to nerf hellbat drops without affecting other matches. What do you guys think about the davie's dmg nerf then? (he only kinda mentioned though.) | ||
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AKA.
76 Posts
On June 12 2013 11:18 plogamer wrote: Watching WCS AM rightnow. Hellbat drops from Major are not doing much. Yeah he's not Code S korean, but nor are his opponents. Seriously, it's only a problem in TvT so far. Any nerf that impacts the balance of non-mirror Terran matchups would be an idiotic move. The entire meta-game right now anticipates those drops, and they are still cost effective. If you absolutely know something is coming, and there is little/nothing you can do to cost effectively stop it, its wrong. Not to mention that the meta-game stagnates, since doing anything other than being super safe is suicide. Im also of the opinion that its slightly less prominent in tvz not because its much worse, but because there are fantastic alternatives that don't end in the Terran losing to helbat drops lol. | ||
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xPrimuSx
95 Posts
On June 12 2013 08:07 NrG.NeverExpo wrote: are you serious? Taking away the fact that they can be healed by medivacs, a good player using them properly will still ABSOLUTELY hard counter those units. You're a fool if you think otherwise. Taking away the Hellbat's ability to heal takes away its intended tankiness, if you do that you need to make another change somewhere to give mech a meat shield. Maybe they could do something that uses SCVs, give them the ability to construct a moveable wall (a wall that the SCV can carry) or something. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On June 12 2013 08:35 JacobShock wrote: I had a terran hellbat drop me a lot. At one point he was circuling my third trying to catch my drones while 3 queens were shooting down his medivac. He didn't care, he just kept trying to drop on my drones in hopes of it would work, even if there was a 10 percent chance it would. Terrans don't even care if the drop dies. All they is one or two successful drop to really throw you off. It's got nothing to do with skill, when they fly past 3 overlords, over static defense, pass a queen and almost kill a drone, you just keep doing it until one lands. GG. Thus according to you and similar thought, that process of dodging queens, spores and spines while avoiding detection requires no skill. By that logic, baneling drops and prism mass warp-ins should be nerfed as well. | ||
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Hellbat
223 Posts
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Corsus
Canada63 Posts
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On June 12 2013 13:30 Corsus wrote: I see so many arguments about mech being nerfed if they nerf the hellbat. How about just don't play mech? Terrans crying that mech is inviable would just be like protoss' crying about not being able to go only air or robo. Right... Shutting down synergies between entire tech trees (starport+factory) will enrich the player and spectator experience. *sarcasm* I thought that was the whole point of the expansion, no? New units and new synergies. Clearly we need more stim marine drops. I wish David Kim wasn't such a push-over. | ||
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playa
United States1284 Posts
On June 12 2013 13:30 Corsus wrote: I see so many arguments about mech being nerfed if they nerf the hellbat. How about just don't play mech? Terrans crying that mech is inviable would just be like protoss' crying about not being able to go only air or robo. Gotta agree here. In BW, I couldn't have cared less that bio wasn't viable, even though playing with mech was hard/imbalanced, too. In an ideal world, yeah maybe you can go every route and it's viable and fun to watch. But, last time I checked, no matter how many adjustments get made, immortals are still an anti mech unit and there's no real answer to a transition to mass tempests. It is what it is. Play bio and deal with it or only use mech on a select few maps. Big deal. I'm playing toss and I still think making "only air" viable is freaking lame. The worst games in SC are "air toss" games. If they nerf a worker rush, it hurts that style, but what does it change.... if you're dealt some good cards and some meh ones... play the good ones and be quiet. | ||
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SsDrKosS
330 Posts
-I know the balance team did not say anything yet, just assuming | ||
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reafah
5 Posts
On June 12 2013 11:26 GolemMadness wrote: So your solution as protoss is to spend important minerals early on on static defenses and then play extremely passively? Really, you think that that is the answer, and you don't see a problem? So what you're saying is it's not viable to build a phoenix or to harass first with an oracle? I'm pretty sure you can get either of those as fast or faster then I can get to the point of dropping hellbats | ||
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Douillos
France3195 Posts
On June 12 2013 15:05 SsDrKosS wrote: guys? Does anyone knows what exactly would be a side effect of hellbat with nerfed dmg? (until the blue flame)? -I know the balance team did not say anything yet, just assuming One thing i can see is it would be harder to incorporate them into your army in TvP. Which isn't a bad thing because Hellbats fuck zealots for breakfeast. | ||
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Tsubbi
Germany7996 Posts
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TheBorg
Netherlands56 Posts
The problem with Hellbat drops isn't that they occur but when they occur: the earliest possible time would be between 8 and 9 minutes (depending on the size of the map). If that could be delayed by a minute or two, then the defender would at least have the opportunity to set up some sort of defense; if he doesn't then that's his own fault. So here's my proposed fix: Hellbats start out as pure Mechanical (so no Bio-Mech hybrid). Then, get rid of the Transformation Servos upgrade - that upgrade has never been used and will never be used in pro play - and instead, change it to Hellbat-healing (call it "Organic Operator" or something) which adds Biological to all Hellbats. Like this, it gives the Terran a tactical choice that has real consequences: do I execute the drop as quickly as possible but run the risk of not doing the damage I need it to do? Or do I wait to research Hellbat-healing, so that if I get in I can do the damage that I need to do, but run the risk of not being able to get in anymore (albeit with a more smooth transition to Bio-Mech): High risk/reward Hellbat drops @ 8-9 minutes vs. safer Hellbat drops @ 10-11 minutes. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On June 12 2013 19:47 TheBorg wrote: Hellbat drops right now are as strong as when BoxeR figured out Blue Flame Hellion-openings: there was virtually no risk to trying it and the reward could be an instant win. The problem with Hellbat drops isn't that they occur but when they occur: the earliest possible time would be between 8 and 9 minutes (depending on the size of the map). If that could be delayed by a minute or two, then the defender would at least have the opportunity to set up some sort of defense; if he doesn't then that's his own fault. So here's my proposed fix: Hellbats start out as pure Mechanical (so no Bio-Mech hybrid). Then, get rid of the Transformation Servos upgrade - that upgrade has never been used and will never be used in pro play - and instead, change it to Hellbat-healing (call it "Organic Operator" or something) which adds Biological to all Hellbats. Like this, it gives the Terran a tactical choice that has real consequences: do I execute the drop as quickly as possible but run the risk of not doing the damage I need it to do? Or do I wait to research Hellbat-healing, so that if I get in I can do the damage that I need to do, but run the risk of not being able to get in anymore (albeit with a more smooth transition to Bio-Mech): High risk/reward Hellbat drops @ 8-9 minutes vs. safer Hellbat drops @ 10-11 minutes. I like this option than nerfing the damage. The name should be instead, "Biosteel frame upgrade" a nod to WoL's story mode upgrade. That being said, what Daid Kim is doing is bad for the game, by leaving it hanging, sends a message to that whiners just need to whine harder instead of learning to play better I can imagine what happens to DT if David Kim were at the helm. They'd probably do less damage than zealots (see Ghost snipe ability). | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On June 12 2013 19:47 TheBorg wrote: Hellbat drops right now are as strong as when BoxeR figured out Blue Flame Hellion-openings: there was virtually no risk to trying it and the reward could be an instant win. The problem with Hellbat drops isn't that they occur but when they occur: the earliest possible time would be between 8 and 9 minutes (depending on the size of the map). If that could be delayed by a minute or two, then the defender would at least have the opportunity to set up some sort of defense; if he doesn't then that's his own fault. So here's my proposed fix: Hellbats start out as pure Mechanical (so no Bio-Mech hybrid). Then, get rid of the Transformation Servos upgrade - that upgrade has never been used and will never be used in pro play - and instead, change it to Hellbat-healing (call it "Organic Operator" or something) which adds Biological to all Hellbats. Like this, it gives the Terran a tactical choice that has real consequences: do I execute the drop as quickly as possible but run the risk of not doing the damage I need it to do? Or do I wait to research Hellbat-healing, so that if I get in I can do the damage that I need to do, but run the risk of not being able to get in anymore (albeit with a more smooth transition to Bio-Mech): High risk/reward Hellbat drops @ 8-9 minutes vs. safer Hellbat drops @ 10-11 minutes. the transformation is being used in basically every mech TvT and TvZ... | ||
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TheBorg
Netherlands56 Posts
On June 12 2013 20:23 Big J wrote: the transformation is being used in basically every mech TvT and TvZ... Seriously? Cause I have watched nearly every match from WCS AM, EU & KR and not once have I seen Hellbats transforming to Hellions or vicve versa, seen the icon in the "Upgrades" panel or heard Tastosis shout "Oh my God, he's transforming his Hellions!!!" | ||
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Irre
United States646 Posts
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b0ub0u
Canada445 Posts
Maybe I didn`t watch enough games. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19366 Posts
On June 12 2013 22:19 b0ub0u wrote: Is it me or no one is using the Servo upgrade? I never saw a transformation in a pro game. Maybe I didn`t watch enough games. I think they do get it. It's just once they change hellions to hellbats you never see them switch back, But there have been heavy hellion openings where I've wondered where they went to only see hellbats the rest of the game. But you are right, it feels like two separate units. | ||
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