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I dont mind the placements of the players, its alright and "fair enough" but symbol all-killing in gstl doesnt seem to feel as "good" as it did before/ the all-kill might sound impressive but in gstl i dont really think it can be compared to proleague. Because symbol is a pretty commonly fielded player for azubu, u would think that the other teams prepares proper snipers.
1. for the first player incase ur first player loses, u instantly have a player ready to send out who is well prepared and has honed a build specifically for that match up.
2. You try to prepare snipers for their star players who should come out at some point.
However if you look at how gstl games are...you really dont get the feeling teams are trying as hard as they should be (if the league was very important, like kespa teams do for proleague) Theres been so many all-kills in this season of gstl its starting to lose the all-kill "awe"
Its MEANT to be amazing because when u all-kill it means you overcame the snipers, their star players, and overall played solidly and amazingly.
GSTL competition/spirit seems weak atm 
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To me HerO shouldn't be in the rank. SymboL and Life are way too high.
Also elephants. Elephants everywhere.
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On June 05 2013 10:44 StatikKhaos wrote:
life seventh?
lol nope
also hero isnt even code S
what are these based on?
Results of the last month.
________________________
Personally, I agree with most of it. Not sure about HerO, but thats it.
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So happy power ranking is back again :D These ranks seem very accurate at the moment and hope the thought process going into these Sc2 power ranks are as deep as the ones made for BW every month ^__^
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On June 05 2013 10:26 Dodgin wrote:
Objectively, Hero and Mvp both don't deserve to be on the list, Losira deserves to be on the list.
I really don't understand how he was overlooked so easily, and there's not even an explanation for his absence, just " the only player to qualify from WCS KR not on the list ". Why isn't he on the list? It deserves an explanation. edit: it seems the OP was edited
Hero has been doing well in Proleague but his WCS AM championship was rather unimpressive, he lost 2 maps to Revival who was on a 10 game losing streak in Proleague until very recently. I mean, if someone like Revival can make the finals in WCS AM It's not a tournament worth talking about when we figure out who the 10 best players in the world are.
Mvp has played in basically nothing other than WCS EU where he did win in dominating fashion(other than losing to Lucifron) after the offline phase started, but It's still WCS EU, It's not comparable to WCS KR. He played a grand total of 0 Koreans, although the non Koreans were good players they're still non Koreans.
That isn't Objectively at all, that is just your opinion buddy, I don't know how you can pretend otherwise. Looking at the players Losira beat recently (TRUE (x2), Soo, Gumiho, Bomber) compared to HerO (herO, Jangbi, Roro, Flash, Alicia, Ryung, Revival, decent foreigners) how can you say that Losira's results are objectively better during this period?
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soO, Gumiho and Bomber are (way) better than herO, Alicia, Ryung, Revival and any foreigner though.
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On June 05 2013 10:28 Emzeeshady wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 10:27 takingbackoj wrote:
Soulkey beat Innovation heads up. Facts say Soulkey is better. What kind of terrible flawed logic is this?
Yeah it's kind of puzzling how that was decided. I could see if Soulkey beat Innovation and then didn't go on to win WCS KR, then I might be able to see an argument. But since that was the finals, I am not sure how you can say the guy that beat Innovation and won the tourney is not better than Innovation. Strange.
I also agree with those puzzled about Hero being #10. I like the guy but he's not top 10. Seems like he got the Liquid bump.
Any who, as an NFL fan I love Power Rankings as much as I loathe Power Rankings. They never seem to make sense to anyone other than the person who makes them but its fun to insult the rankers logic.
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feels like Protoss bias personally. I don't think MVP and Parting are comparable currently..
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yay power ranking is back!
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On June 05 2013 10:17 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 10:12 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On June 05 2013 10:07 Cele wrote:
finally. the power rank has returneth! top 4 are kespa players? Lets talk about the elephant in da room again pls. Sure. It was bullshit. + Show Spoiler +I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch. Among this group there are a notable few that CRUSH any other players in terms of raw talent and/or work ethic and/or ability to learn. This knowledge cheapens any form of competition I see right now, no matter how much I try to enjoy the games.
"But intrigue, BW stats are not everything! This information is all irrelevant!"
Hot_Bid writes:
I know what you're going to say. "It's a different game." I agree with you, somewhat. Look at the WarCraft 3 guys that are doing so well in the international scene, or at the Brood War careers of the guys winning the GSLs. There hasn't been a huge correlation between Brood War ability and SC2 ability among top tier SC2 pros right now.
You see IM.Mvp and think he's the best Terran. But he's the only legitimate A-team pro (and a mediocre one at that) to transfer over. Nobody else has. Imagine there are hundreds of guys like him, with the same raw ability and mindset. They could be worse, or better, or exactly the same. Now imagine there are two, maybe three, that are just flat out better than Mvp at speed, precision, multitasking, and raw ability. Not just "a little better" but way better. But that's not what separates them from him. Flash and Jaedong, when motivated, have a mindset and work ethic that is unmatched by any other RTS professional. Their ability to focus and practice is not just "way better" than what Mvp is capable of, but orders of magnitudes better. Think the difference between Kobe and "average starter" on an NBA team.
Maybe Leta or Sea or Best or Zero won't come into SC2 and be ultra-successful if they switch. But Jaedong and Flash? They are outliers. They do not conform to the normal rules, and everyone who has followed Brood War knows that if they switch, it's not a question of if they will dominate and win, but when.
The "different game" argument applies to 99.9% of progamers, but not for special players like Jaedong and Flash. The game doesn't matter. Whether it's BW or SC2 or checkers or minesweeper, certain players are so good they will always be at the top. You tell me if those sound like the reality we're currently in. im saying those comments are overdosed and hyperbole. But im further saying, the core argument was kespa players should be better in this game, since the skills do cary over. And it would be foolish to doubt that today. Sc2 is beeing dominated by Kespa talents. By the way? Hot_bid had in down to 50% in his prediction: Jaedong? didnt do it. Flash? Yep.
I agree that it's preposterous to think that KESPA could just switch over and dominate and that there were several hundred KESPA pros that could achieve great results. Plenty of BW pros had switched over and had mediocre results. I think the biggest carryover from BW is the superior work ethic that comes from being on a KESPA team. These guys are true pros. You watch proleague and then watch the GSTL and you can just see how much, on the whole, crisper and more, for lack of a better word, "professional" the KESPA pros seem. On the whole, the KESPA pros train harder and smarter. Talent is part of the equation since a good portion of the potential video game talent pool tried its hand at BW and those that weren't elite retired, leaving a core group of BW pro gamers who were very good at that which makes one good at BW. Slowly but surely, they are squeezing the ESF pros out of the GSL. Some undoubtedly will remain but over the long haul the superior machinery that the KESPA teams have in place is only going to further widen the gap between the ESF and KESPA pros (in the aggregate). At the moment I don't think anyone can seriously doubt that there isn't a wide gap between the cream of the crop in KESPA and in ESF.
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On June 05 2013 11:01 Aserrin wrote:
soO, Gumiho and Bomber are (way) better than herO, Alicia, Ryung, Revival and any foreigner though.
is soO gumiho and bomber better than flash jangbi roro? geez
Did they win anything recently? are they #1 in WCS points? if HerO was in code S he would probably do decent depending on his day. if he is a monster that particular month then he could get to the round of 8 or even higher in code S imo
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On June 05 2013 11:01 Aserrin wrote:
soO, Gumiho and Bomber are (way) better than herO, Alicia, Ryung, Revival and any foreigner though.
Objectively or Subjectively? Because I know Bomber and Gumiho are good, but they haven't been performing great lately, so I don't see any reason to give too much merit to those wins. Remember this was Bombers first ro8 in a really long time and I don't remember Gumiho winning anything lately. To be honest I don't know much about soO, but his current record in HoTS is not impressive either.
I'm not suggesting that this means that they are better than the players you mentioned, but that beating them at the moment are not really noteworthy achievements.
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I'm new to the site, and I'm having a hard time understanding this rank. Was it voted by:
a) a single individual?
b) a group of selected people?
c) mathmatically compiled?
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On June 05 2013 10:55 BoxingKangaroo wrote:
Soukey beats Innovation in the one objective way to show skill and still gets placed behind Innovation. OK.
Flash still getting by on his reputation. He's been hyped as 'looking to prove his dominance' for six months now. Hasn't happened.
Also, Proleague BO1's given too much weight honestly. Especially given the lack of competition against ESF players.
Flash was 15-2 in the most recent round of proleague, which is the strongest league in SC2 at the moment. With just that stat, you could make a very good case that he's #1 overall. In fact, if you used an objective Elo measure I'm guessing Flash is almost certainly #1 at present. (TLPD is horrendously out of date and should be taken down if it's not going to be updated, by the way.) Which non-proleague player is supposed to give Flash any trouble except perhaps for Life?
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On June 05 2013 11:12 The_Darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 10:55 BoxingKangaroo wrote:
Soukey beats Innovation in the one objective way to show skill and still gets placed behind Innovation. OK.
Flash still getting by on his reputation. He's been hyped as 'looking to prove his dominance' for six months now. Hasn't happened.
Also, Proleague BO1's given too much weight honestly. Especially given the lack of competition against ESF players. Flash was 15-2 in the most recent round of proleague, which is the strongest league in SC2 at the moment. With just that stat, you could make a very good case that he's #1 overall. In fact, if you used an objective Elo measure I'm guessing Flash is almost certainly #1 at present. (TLPD is horrendously out of date and should be taken down if it's not going to be updated, by the way.) Which non-proleague player is supposed to give Flash any trouble except perhaps for Life?
How is proleague stronger then GSL?
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I don't recognize #4, Kal. Has he moved on or can I await his arrival? (the 'pedias doesn't mention retirement).
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On June 05 2013 11:10 JP Dayne wrote:
I'm new to the site, and I'm having a hard time understanding this rank. Was it voted by:
a) a single individual?
b) a group of selected people?
c) mathmatically compiled?
Usually it's done by a group of TL staff, subjectively based on the three criteria listed at the top of the page.
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On June 05 2013 11:15 AlternativeEgo wrote:I don't recognize #4, Kal. Has he moved on or can I await his arrival? (the 'pedias doesn't mention retirement).
I'm pretty sure Kal retired after Airforce ACE disbanded.
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On June 05 2013 10:59 Myrddraal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 10:26 Dodgin wrote:
Objectively, Hero and Mvp both don't deserve to be on the list, Losira deserves to be on the list.
I really don't understand how he was overlooked so easily, and there's not even an explanation for his absence, just " the only player to qualify from WCS KR not on the list ". Why isn't he on the list? It deserves an explanation. edit: it seems the OP was edited
Hero has been doing well in Proleague but his WCS AM championship was rather unimpressive, he lost 2 maps to Revival who was on a 10 game losing streak in Proleague until very recently. I mean, if someone like Revival can make the finals in WCS AM It's not a tournament worth talking about when we figure out who the 10 best players in the world are.
Mvp has played in basically nothing other than WCS EU where he did win in dominating fashion(other than losing to Lucifron) after the offline phase started, but It's still WCS EU, It's not comparable to WCS KR. He played a grand total of 0 Koreans, although the non Koreans were good players they're still non Koreans. That isn't Objectively at all, that is just your opinion buddy, I don't know how you can pretend otherwise. Looking at the players Losira beat recently (TRUE (x2), Soo, Gumiho, Bomber) compared to HerO (herO, Jangbi, Roro, Flash, Alicia, Ryung, Revival, decent foreigners) how can you say that Losira's results are objectively better during this period?
I weigh GSL results more than Proleague, Other than Flash and Roro the caliber of players they played is about the same. I say objectively because I am a big fan of both Hero and Mvp so I'm looking outside of my own bias.
WCS AM and EU results are worth almost nothing in relation to a Power Rank of the top 10 players in the world, if Hero were to deserve a spot on the ranking it would have to be almost entirely from his Proleague results, which are good but not as good as some other players who are not on the list. Zest from KT comes to mind immediately, TY from Team 8 as well.
I think too much weight is put on WCS AM & EU, Mvp shouldn't be #11, part of that is probably because It's Mvp but I don't think you should place players on faith alone. This would have been a lot easier to do had the list come out after the season finals, we'll see who is right soon enough.
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On June 05 2013 09:16 Scville wrote:
Why Hero > Kangho and MVP?
Kangho almost won vs SoS and he 3-0'ed Bomber
I know, Hero is from teamliquid but come on lol, no way he is the 10th best player in the world.
''Life's only results this month were losing to NAKSEO in the GSTL and 2 - 0ing MarineKing in GSL. (But at this point, is 2 - 0ing MarineKing in ZvT really an accomplishment?)''
Of course, Life didn't play anything else.
This is going to sound mean, but your comment made me laugh out loud.
Losira's path to where he got in GSL was very easy compared to the other players, Bomber is a notorious choke artist (especially in the GSL), and the games he lost to sOs were mostly complete trouncings.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that Losira has been a benchwarmer who lost his only recent GSTL match for IM, and HerO is the cornerstone for EG-TL. SPL is a MUCH harder league than GSTL in general and is much more well respected, and Losira's not even doing well in the GSTL, much less posting the kind of results HerO can claim in the toughest team league in SC2.
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EPT
