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On June 06 2013 10:14 SlaverR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 03:15 BronzeKnee wrote:
I'm shocked at the top 2 rankings.
This is just ridiculous reasoning for the ranking: When it comes down to it, Soulkey may be the GSL champion, but Innovation was just the more impressive player in May. Think of it this way: you have to bet your life on either Soulkey or Innovation in a bo1 against an arbitrary player. Who would you choose?
You could make an argument for choosing Flash (or any number of players) over Soulkey with that reasoning (heck Flash beat Soulkey in the GSL this season). And it would be just as wrong.
But what happened here is that Soulkey got slapped in the face, after it was arbitrarily decided that his win wasn't good enough, that somehow he can be ranked #2 after becoming a GSL champion by defeating the man in the finals who you ranked #1 .
How is anyone supposed to achieve #1 if they can't do it by defeating the #1 player in a best of 7 series for the most prestigious title in E-Sports? And it isn't like this is one series, both players defeated high quality opponents round after round in order to reach the finals.
Simply put, the definition of the word better was ignored here when Innovation was picked over Soulkey (by definition of the word better, the better player always wins).
Outside of the GSL, Innovation gets used more in Proleague, but their win rates are similar, at 67% for Innovation and 66% for Soulkey.
Finally, this statement really irks me [i]"It seems quite harsh that all of this would be negated by the difference of just one game, Innovation was one game away from winning, but he was there three times! The bias is such a slap in the fact to Soulkey, who remained calm and tore apart Innovation.
The ability to finish is important. So is the ability to remain calm when behind. Soulkey showed it. It was absent in Innovation.
Until Innovation is as calm under pressure and can finish like Soulkey, Soulkey is the better player by definition, because he defeated Innovation in a competitive setting. That is how the English language works.
bet·ter 1 (btr)
adj. Comparative of good.
1. Greater in excellence or higher in quality.
2. More useful, suitable, or desirable: found a better way to go; a suit with a better fit than that one.
3. More highly skilled or adept: I am better at math than English.
4. Greater or larger: argued for the better part of an hour.
5. More advantageous or favorable; improved: a better chance of success.
6. Healthier or more fit than before: The patient is better today.
v.intr.
To become better.
Idioms:
To outdo or outwit; defeat.
Word! Does nobody read the "long" posts?? This guy actually knows how to argue.
He really doesn't, his arguments are a joke. He's trying to turn his opinion of what is considered "better" into a fact, but he failed hard at it.
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On June 05 2013 17:48 nimdil wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 17:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On June 05 2013 17:43 sickless wrote:
author is innovations fan, i don't see any reasons to not put soulkey on the 1st line. he outplayed him in macro/defending cheeses/executing all ins, and all four games in a row. innovation played bad, that's it. Because Soulkey cheesed him 2 times, scouted a proxy 2 rax and then hugely benefitted from Bogus losing 3 medivacs for nothing. Sounds like legitimate winnings to me.
it honestly gets to me when people try to take it away from people like saying innovation lost it, which is basically saying soulkey didn't earn it..
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On June 06 2013 11:04 sc14s wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 17:48 nimdil wrote:On June 05 2013 17:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On June 05 2013 17:43 sickless wrote:
author is innovations fan, i don't see any reasons to not put soulkey on the 1st line. he outplayed him in macro/defending cheeses/executing all ins, and all four games in a row. innovation played bad, that's it. Because Soulkey cheesed him 2 times, scouted a proxy 2 rax and then hugely benefitted from Bogus losing 3 medivacs for nothing. Sounds like legitimate winnings to me. it honestly gets to me when people try to take it away from people like saying innovation lost it, which is basically saying soulkey didn't earn it..
Hm, I would say that Innovation "lost it" more than Soulkey "won it". Soulkey never blundered like Innovation did, multiple times. Soulkey played solidly, nothing truly amazing though like we saw from Innovation on their 2nd PL match. Innovation played solidly until game 4 and then he just sort of went limp partway through the pounding. (Take that any way you want ^_~). Like in Chess, when one player does a very early blunder, people don't really credit the winner of the match more than they do discredit the loser.
But, I would say that Soulkey outplayed Innovation in the series as a whole.
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A very well thought out list!
Taken in context of the whole month, Innovation looked far more dominant against the rest of this entire list, while Soulkey in context of the whole month barely could eek a win against sos which was a long awful series for both of them.
Losing the Group of Death was quite a motivator for Flash it seems, I'm cheering for him just because I can't get over the God meme 
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On June 05 2013 09:11 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:
Think of it this way: you have to bet your life on either Soulkey or Innovation in a bo1 against an arbitrary player. Who would you choose?
Soulkey
It is harder to cheese Zerg, than Terran
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I really dont understand that mvp is in that list. Actually every korean code b player can win wcs eu. Also mvp is code b player
User was temp banned for this post.
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Any of the top 9 can take a BoX against anyone else in the top 9 at the moment, so any power rank is pretty arbitrary.
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On June 06 2013 12:53 jalstar wrote:
Any of the top 9 can take a BoX against anyone else in the top 9 at the moment, so any power rank is pretty arbitrary.
BO50's ? I don't think so :/
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On June 06 2013 13:13 fluidin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 12:53 jalstar wrote:
Any of the top 9 can take a BoX against anyone else in the top 9 at the moment, so any power rank is pretty arbitrary. BO50's ? I don't think so :/
Correction: Innovation would beat anyone in a Bo50.
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We really need a SoS for SC2 (Strength of Schedule, or in this case, Strength of Opponent). I'd actually put Innovation #1, Soulkey #3, and Flash #2 for power-rankings for this month, based on their SoS and performance. It should be interesting how this month turns out.
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On June 06 2013 13:28 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 13:13 fluidin wrote:On June 06 2013 12:53 jalstar wrote:
Any of the top 9 can take a BoX against anyone else in the top 9 at the moment, so any power rank is pretty arbitrary. BO50's ? I don't think so :/ Correction: Innovation would beat anyone in a Bo50.
I think Flash would beat him pretty handily. Flash is all ready 5-3 against him, and TvT is Inno's worst MU, and I'd presume Flash has much more endurance due to the sheer amount he practices (more than everyone else).
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Awesome 
Also, I love how the picture of Innovation flying medivacs into the mutas has a URL called "momentoffate"
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I am shocked by how people nowaydays don't count StarLeague Title. It looks like some random guy came and took GSL. I remember from bw days that how many OSL/MSL you have was one of the most important factors. Because for taking Starleague title was the dream of any progamer. Flash took 6 times. Nada took 6 times. Jaedong got it 5 times. They are the best players. Their titles proved it. Everyone knows them because their outstanding performances. For the last month only one person increased number of his titles.
Also It wasn't just one game or series between Innovation and Soulkey. It was Finals!!! Maybe it was the most important games in their life so far.
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On June 06 2013 10:57 Myrddraal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 10:14 SlaverR wrote:On June 06 2013 03:15 BronzeKnee wrote:
I'm shocked at the top 2 rankings.
This is just ridiculous reasoning for the ranking: When it comes down to it, Soulkey may be the GSL champion, but Innovation was just the more impressive player in May. Think of it this way: you have to bet your life on either Soulkey or Innovation in a bo1 against an arbitrary player. Who would you choose?
You could make an argument for choosing Flash (or any number of players) over Soulkey with that reasoning (heck Flash beat Soulkey in the GSL this season). And it would be just as wrong.
But what happened here is that Soulkey got slapped in the face, after it was arbitrarily decided that his win wasn't good enough, that somehow he can be ranked #2 after becoming a GSL champion by defeating the man in the finals who you ranked #1 .
How is anyone supposed to achieve #1 if they can't do it by defeating the #1 player in a best of 7 series for the most prestigious title in E-Sports? And it isn't like this is one series, both players defeated high quality opponents round after round in order to reach the finals.
Simply put, the definition of the word better was ignored here when Innovation was picked over Soulkey (by definition of the word better, the better player always wins).
Outside of the GSL, Innovation gets used more in Proleague, but their win rates are similar, at 67% for Innovation and 66% for Soulkey.
Finally, this statement really irks me [i]"It seems quite harsh that all of this would be negated by the difference of just one game, Innovation was one game away from winning, but he was there three times! The bias is such a slap in the fact to Soulkey, who remained calm and tore apart Innovation.
The ability to finish is important. So is the ability to remain calm when behind. Soulkey showed it. It was absent in Innovation.
Until Innovation is as calm under pressure and can finish like Soulkey, Soulkey is the better player by definition, because he defeated Innovation in a competitive setting. That is how the English language works.
bet·ter 1 (btr)
adj. Comparative of good.
1. Greater in excellence or higher in quality.
2. More useful, suitable, or desirable: found a better way to go; a suit with a better fit than that one.
3. More highly skilled or adept: I am better at math than English.
4. Greater or larger: argued for the better part of an hour.
5. More advantageous or favorable; improved: a better chance of success.
6. Healthier or more fit than before: The patient is better today.
v.intr.
To become better.
Idioms:
To outdo or outwit; defeat.
Word! Does nobody read the "long" posts?? This guy actually knows how to argue. He really doesn't, his arguments are a joke. He's trying to turn his opinion of what is considered "better" into a fact, but he failed hard at it.
I have to disagree. The fact that Soulkey defeated Innovation is the only factual evidence to who is better there is. Is it 100% full proof? No. But everything outside of the heads up match is opinion/speculation. I agree with him though. I weigh heads up and major tournament wins higher than anything else and Soulkey has Innovation on both fronts. We can sit here and play the should've would've could've game all day, but what happened was Soulkey beat Innovation in a best of 7, which is a format that is built to minimize luck and reward the more skilled player, then went on to win WCS KR. In my mind we can't ignore that.
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I think some people are missing the true spirit of Power Ranks. Objectively speaking, yes, Soulkey won the most recent GSL against Innovation who is currently ranked 1. However, Power Ranks, in addition to the criteria mentioned in the first post, is also based the player's "aura", and this is defined however the author of the Power Ranks want. In that regard, I agree Innovation should be number 1 right now. No one who actually wants to win will choose to face him because at this present moment, he is the most feared player.
Simply put, if you "objectively" want the "best" player to be number 1 in Power Ranks, then just take a look at the ELO's. Even back in the BW days from which Power Ranks originated, the person with the highest ELO was not necessarily #1 in the Power Ranks.
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its Flash's time next season....innovation better try to hold on cause Flash is going to pass everyone up
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On June 07 2013 03:47 mikumegurine wrote:
its Flash's time next season....innovation better try to hold on cause Flash is going to pass everyone up
I still remember his disappointing season that lead into 2010-11, the season he became nigh untouchable. I hope he has one more of those years left in him.
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United Arab Emirates439 Posts
If choking doesn't count against you as a player then I don't know what this power ranking is supposed to even mean. You have to put Soulkey over Innovation, the author said it themselves, it's possibly one of the biggest chokes in history.
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On June 07 2013 03:47 mikumegurine wrote:
its Flash's time next season....innovation better try to hold on cause Flash is going to pass everyone up
We have been hearing that for over a year by now. Not saying he won't but its getting old season after season after season.
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On June 06 2013 10:57 Myrddraal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 10:14 SlaverR wrote:On June 06 2013 03:15 BronzeKnee wrote:
I'm shocked at the top 2 rankings.
This is just ridiculous reasoning for the ranking: When it comes down to it, Soulkey may be the GSL champion, but Innovation was just the more impressive player in May. Think of it this way: you have to bet your life on either Soulkey or Innovation in a bo1 against an arbitrary player. Who would you choose?
You could make an argument for choosing Flash (or any number of players) over Soulkey with that reasoning (heck Flash beat Soulkey in the GSL this season). And it would be just as wrong.
But what happened here is that Soulkey got slapped in the face, after it was arbitrarily decided that his win wasn't good enough, that somehow he can be ranked #2 after becoming a GSL champion by defeating the man in the finals who you ranked #1 .
How is anyone supposed to achieve #1 if they can't do it by defeating the #1 player in a best of 7 series for the most prestigious title in E-Sports? And it isn't like this is one series, both players defeated high quality opponents round after round in order to reach the finals.
Simply put, the definition of the word better was ignored here when Innovation was picked over Soulkey (by definition of the word better, the better player always wins).
Outside of the GSL, Innovation gets used more in Proleague, but their win rates are similar, at 67% for Innovation and 66% for Soulkey.
Finally, this statement really irks me [i]"It seems quite harsh that all of this would be negated by the difference of just one game, Innovation was one game away from winning, but he was there three times! The bias is such a slap in the fact to Soulkey, who remained calm and tore apart Innovation.
The ability to finish is important. So is the ability to remain calm when behind. Soulkey showed it. It was absent in Innovation.
Until Innovation is as calm under pressure and can finish like Soulkey, Soulkey is the better player by definition, because he defeated Innovation in a competitive setting. That is how the English language works.
bet·ter 1 (btr)
adj. Comparative of good.
1. Greater in excellence or higher in quality.
2. More useful, suitable, or desirable: found a better way to go; a suit with a better fit than that one.
3. More highly skilled or adept: I am better at math than English.
4. Greater or larger: argued for the better part of an hour.
5. More advantageous or favorable; improved: a better chance of success.
6. Healthier or more fit than before: The patient is better today.
v.intr.
To become better.
Idioms:
To outdo or outwit; defeat.
Word! Does nobody read the "long" posts?? This guy actually knows how to argue. He really doesn't, his arguments are a joke. He's trying to turn his opinion of what is considered "better" into a fact, but he failed hard at it.
Yea that wouldn't make any sense. By his definition, PartinG should be in 3rd place because he was 3-0 versus Flash this month.
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EPT
